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luther.r
11-10-2012, 17:10
Anybody know anything about this (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12223001000106)? Source, release date, etc.?

MyOldKyDram
11-10-2012, 17:58
Well hello there. First I've seen or heard of it.

BFerguson
11-10-2012, 18:11
Canadian perhaps??

Who else has aged rye of that vintage?

Label does say "North American Rye", that would include them.

My interested is piqued.

B

Tico
11-10-2012, 18:54
Canadian perhaps??

Who else has aged rye of that vintage?

Label does say "North American Rye", that would include them.

My interested is piqued.

B
my first thought as well. If it was Kentucky rye they sure would say that but the inclusion of North America screams Canadian or a blend of US and Canadian.

c2walker
11-10-2012, 22:47
Anybody know anything about this (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12223001000106)? Source, release date, etc.?

I posted about this a couple months ago and IIRC most people assumed that this will be a Canadian rye as Tico said.

tanstaafl2
11-23-2012, 12:51
In trying to find any scraps of info I could on the Jefferson Ocean I came across this picture on what I presume is a product designers website (http://ghowardryan.com/packageDesign.htm).

I know nothing else about it. Perhaps the label hunters can discover more info. More Canadian product? Whatever it is it certainly would seem to have potential...

14459

tanstaafl2
11-23-2012, 12:54
I started another thread (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?18818-Jeferson-Presidential-Select-21yo-RYE!&p=309763#post309763) but see I am late to the party. Don't have any new info but did find a picture by accident.


Note that thread has been merged with this one. p_elliott

squire
11-23-2012, 14:01
What's the price?

tanstaafl2
11-23-2012, 14:16
What's the price?

None reported yet that I can find.

Wryguy
02-14-2013, 14:44
I had an interesting conversation on the phone today with Eric at the Jug Shop in San Francisco. We got to talking about things in the pipeline and the JPS21 came up. He told me that he had just spoken to Trey Zoeller and got word that this will be a bourbon and not a rye and that the source was NOT S-W juice. Eric speculated that the little S-W not already used in the JPS18 would be used in a future limited, ultra-premium bottling. I've heard HH has similar plans for the barrels of S-W they are sitting on. All of this being rumor and hearsay, but interesting fodder for forums like these. Where could the bourbon for a JPS21 come from? And how much will they charge, knowing it lacks the cachet of S-W?

tanstaafl2
02-14-2013, 15:00
I had an interesting conversation on the phone today with Eric at the Jug Shop in San Francisco. We got to talking about things in the pipeline and the JPS21 came up. He told me that he had just spoken to Trey Zoeller and got word that this will be a bourbon and not a rye and that the source was NOT S-W juice. Eric speculated that the little S-W not already used in the JPS18 would be used in a future limited, ultra-premium bottling. I've heard HH has similar plans for the barrels of S-W they are sitting on. All of this being rumor and hearsay, but interesting fodder for forums like these. Where could the bourbon for a JPS21 come from? And how much will they charge, knowing it lacks the cachet of S-W?


The bottle mock up sure looked like it was going to be a rye!

I have done my bit for Jefferson's by getting a bottle of the Ocean. Unless I know more about what it is rather than what it isn't I don't plan to buy this JPS21 until I at least have a chance to try it first. And if that chance doesn't materialize then I guess I won't be buying.

I must say the "ultra-premium" bottlings of supposed S-W juice, whether it be Jefferson's or HH, sounds a bit tiresome already and it isn't even available yet!

Wryguy
02-14-2013, 15:07
I must say the "ultra-premium" bottlings of supposed S-W juice, whether it be Jefferson's or HH, sounds a bit tiresome already and it isn't even available yet!

Couldn't agree more. Makes me want to snatch up a couple more JPS18. I know of a store that has a couple on sale for 69.99.

As far as the bottle mock-up that confused me, mostly because of my ignorance. Was there a separate COLA entry for a JPS21 bourbon? Would a change from rye to bourbon necessitate a new COLA entry? Time to do some research...

Wryguy
02-14-2013, 15:13
There is a TTB COLA entry for a straight bourbon:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=12320001000005

squire
02-15-2013, 09:21
Well, I expect they will charge as much as they think they can get, but I won't be tempted at any price.

macdeffe
02-15-2013, 12:06
Product Source is marked as Domestic (opposed to Imported)

Will this rule out Canada

There is also Proximo listed with their Lawrenceburg, Indiana adress

So Maybe it's LDI (the only 21yo rye from there I know of was matured in used barrels though)

Steffen

LostBottle
02-17-2013, 09:51
I really hope the 21 rye is coming to market. If it is indeed a domestic source, I am very curious to know who still has 21yo rye laying around.

BFerguson
02-17-2013, 12:14
I really hope the 21 rye is coming to market. If it is indeed a domestic source, I am very curious to know who still has 21yo rye laying around.


I'll certainly be in line next to you when this comes out.

But my gut says that it probably cannot be US distilled rye. The last of the ultra aged ryes all came to market within the same small time period, and aside from the tanked VWFRR and Saz 18, there just isn't anything in the market that would even come close. Even the HW 16 and 21 year ryes where anomaly's in their own right-and delicious ones at that.

Canada always seems to be the usual suspect of recent with any aged rye product coming to market.

Seriously---1)who who have have something like this on hand domestically? 2)With the market being smoking hot for products like these-why sell them to somebody else to put out. As long as the juice is decent, anybody would be nuts to offload these, even though the yield would likely be small, make it a niche product, and even priced at the high end of the market, it will sell.

B

LostBottle
03-19-2013, 16:30
Any updates on this? If it is still coming, it very well may be the release of the year.

tanstaafl2
04-09-2013, 15:04
Have heard the first rumors of this hitting town so if it is here it must be out elsewhere. But it looks like this is a 21 yo bourbon, not a rye, is in the $130 range and still mystery whiskey.

luther.r
04-09-2013, 15:09
Have heard the first rumors of this hitting town so if it is here it must be out elsewhere. But it looks like this is a 21 yo bourbon, not a rye, is in the $130 range and still mystery whiskey.

There's one of each coming out: a bourbon and a rye.

tanstaafl2
04-10-2013, 06:06
There's one of each coming out: a bourbon and a rye.

The rye I would probably try, even at this rather spendy price, if the reviews are half decent. But I am going to pass on the bourbon.

Saving money instead to see if I can acquire a bottle of Old Potrero Hostaling's mostly because I have always wanted to try that and not because it makes a lick of sense to spend that kind of money on it!

Pikesville
04-10-2013, 10:33
The rye I would probably try, even at this rather spendy price, if the reviews are half decent. But I am going to pass on the bourbon.

Saving money instead to see if I can acquire a bottle of Old Potrero Hostaling's mostly because I have always wanted to try that and not because it makes a lick of sense to spend that kind of money on it!

That Hotaling's is my white whale of rye. Makes Saz 18 look as easy to pick up as Bud Lite.

I've tried emailing Anchor to see if they even release it anymore, but have never gotten a reply.

mrviognier
04-13-2013, 06:05
I've tried emailing Anchor to see if they even release it anymore, but have never gotten a reply.

I think that you got your answer. ;)

TomH
04-16-2013, 09:39
That Hotaling's is my white whale of rye. Makes Saz 18 look as easy to pick up as Bud Lite.

I've tried emailing Anchor to see if they even release it anymore, but have never gotten a reply.

I've talked with them a couple of times in the last few months at whisky events.

They did not have enough last year to do a retail release. Most of the bottles went to charity events and a couple went to special tastings.

At the Vegas show (UWE) they said that they are planning to do a release this year.

Tom

TomH
04-16-2013, 09:40
I think that you got your answer. ;)

Hopefully you don't have insider knowledge that changes what I was told...I need to get a couple more bottles :-)

White Dog
04-16-2013, 17:50
I think that you got your answer. ;)

The new owners of Anchor are as different from Maytag as they could be. It's now a business with zero passion.

Pikesville
04-17-2013, 17:03
The new owners of Anchor are as different from Maytag as they could be. It's now a business with zero passion.

That's a shame. I got to meet or see Fritz speak a couple of times and he was a true gentleman- passionate for his craft and polite to all. It was if Jimmy Stewart made fine ales and spirits.

tigerlam92
07-22-2013, 17:05
Reviving this thread from Luther since Eric posted with picture that this JPS21 rye is coming.

Anyone has more information or history of the barrels.

tanstaafl2
07-23-2013, 07:41
That Hotaling's is my white whale of rye. Makes Saz 18 look as easy to pick up as Bud Lite.

I've tried emailing Anchor to see if they even release it anymore, but have never gotten a reply.

My understanding is that an 18yo version has been released and is out there in very limited quantities for reportedly something approaching $200 per.

At least one bottle has been acquired (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19994-What-rye-did-you-purchase-today-Spring-Summer-2013&p=353502&viewfull=1#post353502) by an SBer. I have not been so lucky so far.

Pikesville
07-23-2013, 21:57
My understanding is that an 18yo version has been released and is out there in very limited quantities for reportedly something approaching $200 per.

At least one bottle has been acquired (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19994-What-rye-did-you-purchase-today-Spring-Summer-2013&p=353502&viewfull=1#post353502) by an SBer. I have not been so lucky so far.

I got one, been waiting to crack it open on an evening with a fresh palate and time to properly savor; will provide notes here when I do.

Pikesville
07-23-2013, 22:07
Back to the original topic- just noticed that the Jefferson's poster in another thread showed the coming 21 yo rye as being from American stock. This is contrary to the earlier rumors that had it as "North American", which many (including me) took to mean as Canadian.

I truly wonder whose barrels they got of that age? Maybe some old LDI? Hard to believe Rittenhouse would have let some away unless it was not up to par.

time will soon tell.

Restaurant man
07-24-2013, 10:24
Back to the original topic- just noticed that the Jefferson's poster in another thread showed the coming 21 yo rye as being from American stock. This is contrary to the earlier rumors that had it as "North American", which many (including me) took to mean as Canadian.

I truly wonder whose barrels they got of that age? Maybe some old LDI? Hard to believe Rittenhouse would have let some away unless it was not up to par.

time will soon tell.

Could be North American is more specific of "American"

Pikesville
07-24-2013, 10:49
Could be North American is more specific of "American"

Ahh, I didn't think that way! Maybe even some fine 21yo Mexican rye :)

brettckeen
07-24-2013, 14:54
I truly wonder whose barrels they got of that age? Maybe some old LDI? Hard to believe Rittenhouse would have let some away unless it was not up to par.

time will soon tell.

MGPI did find lots of old barrels they sold to their best customers after purchasing LDI and doing a full hand count inventory.

tanstaafl2
07-24-2013, 18:33
time will soon tell.

Unfortunately with Jefferson it hasn't been a particularly easy product to nail down a source with unless it is a source they really want you to know about like the S-W JPS 17/18 bourbon. So I am not yet convinced time will tell.

MyOldKyDram
07-24-2013, 18:37
Passed on a bunch of 100%ers today, but may rethink that.

K_Henderson
08-04-2013, 12:44
MGPI did have many barrels of OLD Rye (and bourbons) they let go of when they acquired LDI. I have personally seen and tasted 2 of them, and they were distilled in 1978. Yes, thats not a typo, they are 35 years old. Oaked as hell, but putting 35 years one the label would probably command an insane price.

Always a possibility that JPS rye is some of this older LDI juice. I personally think its going to be a blend of the LDI barrels and some Canadian barrels.

squire
08-04-2013, 12:55
Thanks for that post Kyle, always good to get first hand information.

Wryguy
08-04-2013, 13:00
35 year old rye?! That must have been an OAK monster. I'd love to get that in my mouth. Thanks for the info...

ChainWhip
08-04-2013, 15:58
35 year old rye?! That must have been an OAK monster. I'd love to get that in my mouth. Thanks for the info...

There's so many ways one could go with that... =]b

Wryguy
08-04-2013, 16:07
I was thinking along the lines of suckling at Venus' teat, but I can see how some could be confused ;)

WAINWRIGHT
08-04-2013, 16:16
I would agree with your thinking as I've had plenty of rye 18-25yrs. old but 35yrs. would be something I love to try even it be only once,the impact of the oak is probably incomprehensible,but damn would I like to find out.

Restaurant man
08-04-2013, 18:29
35 year old rye?! That must have been an OAK monster. I'd love to get that in my mouth. Thanks for the info...

I personally hate a mouthful of wood

tanstaafl2
08-04-2013, 19:23
I personally hate a mouthful of wood

That is just too easy...

:rolleyes:

Wryguy
08-04-2013, 19:27
I personally hate a mouthful of wood

Speaking from experience, eh? ;)

WAINWRIGHT
08-04-2013, 19:29
I personally hate a mouthful of wood


Speaking from experience, eh? ;)Now that's some funny shit!Kevin you're up to bat again.

tanstaafl2
08-04-2013, 19:30
I personally hate a mouthful of wood
Speaking from experience, eh? ;)

Like I said...

:lol:

MauiSon
08-05-2013, 13:27
Extraction from the wood must essentially end at some point in the aging process. I would assume a logarithmic tapering that flat-lines at or before 18 years (thick barrels may have more to impart than thin barrels). After that, there's only the concentration factor due to evaporation, offset at some point by precipitation of flavoring compounds. So, I doubt a 35yo would be much different from a 25yo as a rule, other than the natural variability between barrels.

Frodo
08-06-2013, 18:20
I would agree with your thinking as I've had plenty of rye 18-25yrs. old but 35yrs. would be something I love to try even it be only once,the impact of the oak is probably incomprehensible,but damn would I like to find out.

I've tried the Alberta Premium 30yr and even though it was aged in used casks, the oak dominated the stage and the rye notes were in the background. I don't think there are many super-old ryes around for a reason - although the Rittenhouse 21 rye was well reviewed.

squire
08-06-2013, 18:41
Old whiskys never die, they just get blended away.

theglobalguy
08-06-2013, 18:42
Old whiskys never die, they just get blended away.

I was about to ask. There's no way they'd just toss an old barrel given what it's cost them in taxes/time/etc.

Does a barrel ever go completely bad, age related or otherwise?

squire
08-06-2013, 18:51
Yes they do, barrels can be ruined by green wood sap or an iron scrap (that's why barrels are not put together with nails) and when they do they are sold to a rectifier to be redistilled into industrial alcohol.

K_Henderson
08-07-2013, 10:50
I was about to ask. There's no way they'd just toss an old barrel given what it's cost them in taxes/time/etc.

Does a barrel ever go completely bad, age related or otherwise?

Eventually everything will evaporate out.

squire
08-07-2013, 17:13
But you guys aren't about to let that happen, are you Kyle.

K_Henderson
08-08-2013, 07:40
Certainly not. But we also dont have these old barrels. Just happen to know who does.

squire
08-08-2013, 16:40
Kyle on this Board we call that a cliffhanger.

BFerguson
08-08-2013, 18:44
Kyle, that's a welled played line.

Thanks for the contributions. And for good product that you folks put out.

B

Pikesville
11-06-2013, 21:14
Seems this rumored creature is starting to show in the wild, ran across this in another corner of the internets.

Anyone seen or tasted it yet?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZalZNrWH6CI/Unmm1DtFTwI/AAAAAAAAABE/rJMjEVPiZbY/s1600/Jefferson21Rye2.jpg

RVTsteve
11-06-2013, 21:36
Batch 2 even! New to me. Anyone know msrp?

thanks for sharing.

tanstaafl2
11-07-2013, 10:07
Something for me to ask Trey Zoeller about during a bourbon dinner I am going to in a couple of weeks that he is supposed to be attending. Well, something else. I already have several questions in mind! If we even get to ask questions.

Although I am not really expecting any real details unfortunately. Perhaps I will be wrong about that.

As for MSRP I don't have a clue but anything much below the bourbon which was around $135 would be something of a surprise even with the relatively low proof. Unfortunately more than that would not be a big surprise. At least 100 proof like the older Rittenhouse Rye line would have been nice to see.



Seems this rumored creature is starting to show in the wild, ran across this in another corner of the internets.

Anyone seen or tasted it yet?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZalZNrWH6CI/Unmm1DtFTwI/AAAAAAAAABE/rJMjEVPiZbY/s1600/Jefferson21Rye2.jpg

Conquistador
11-07-2013, 10:13
Virginia ABC website lists JPS21 Rye at $139.95, and JPS25 Rye at $159.90.

squire
11-07-2013, 10:36
I like that phrase, North American Rye, I've no doubt it's accurate.

tanstaafl2
11-07-2013, 14:23
Virginia ABC website lists JPS21 Rye at $139.95, and JPS25 Rye at $159.90.

Makes me wonder if the 25 is all that good. Usually it seems like 4 more years leads to an exponential increase in price. But if I find it I might take a shot with the 21yo Rye just for the hell of it.

Dolph Lundgren
11-14-2013, 04:48
Is the Jeff 21 CF?

Trey Manthey
11-16-2013, 06:26
I passed on a bottle of this at $130 yesterday. Despite being a fan of many ryes in this age range, I think I'll need to wait for someone else to plunge in before I consider it.

tanstaafl2
11-16-2013, 17:03
I passed on a bottle of this at $130 yesterday. Despite being a fan of many ryes in this age range, I think I'll need to wait for someone else to plunge in before I consider it.

If I can find it then knowing me I will probably plunge!

LCWoody
11-25-2013, 19:58
Opened my bottle of this today, I love old ryes and this one is not disappointing. Very good. Glad I bought a bottle