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View Full Version : What's the deal with Lot B???



boneuphtoner
11-30-2012, 20:16
So I went by to get my 1 allocated bottle of Pappy 15, and the clerk asked me...."do you want any of the Pappy 12 year old?". Since I had never heard of this, I said sure. He produced two bottles of Lot B. Having never tried it, I took the plunge. Its excellent stuff IMHO! Better than ORVW 90 for sure, and more refined and better integrated in the char/sweetness balance to my palate than Weller 12. But since I've only seen it mentioned around here a couple of times next to the Weller's, Pappys, and ORVW's, I have to ask the question...what sort of niche are they trying to fill with this product? Is this supposed to be some sort of intermediate product between the ORVW and Pappy markets?

The shop I was in just happened to have these available among their reserved van Winkle products. The clerk said that no one had reserved these, and I just happened to be there at the right place and right time. I think this stuff is great, just besting Weller 12 by a whisker as my favorite wheater that isn't a Pappy 15 or JPS18. But is the point of this product to be some intermediate range between ORVW and Pappy? Given the price (nearly $50), it isn't that much better than the Weller 12 to justify being twice the price, IMHO.


What sayest thou?

BradleyC
11-30-2012, 20:41
In my opinion Lot B is overpriced Weller 12. They both are the exact same recipe, same distillery, same barrels, same warehouses, etc. The only difference is that Julian gets first pick of the barrels for what goes into Lot B vs Weller 12. The difference in taste is not worth the premium Lot B carries in my mind. I passed on Lot B this year at $39.99. The same store had Liters of Weller 12 for $22. That was a no brainer for me. I saw Lot B as high as $75 which is absurd given Weller 12 is available in the marketplace. I have empty Lot B bottles to pour my weller 12 into if the fancy VW label makes me feel more fuzzy inside.

All of this being said, I would be extremely surprised if BT didn't drop the Weller 12 label since they can make so much more money selling it to the Pappy chasers under the Van Winkle label.

BFerguson
11-30-2012, 20:53
Out of the last two that i had, the first was stellar, a massive balck cherry bomb. Intense.

The second was "meh"........

It's kind of the illegitimate stepchild of the line filling in extra space. And I'm not sure anybody puts in a request for it. More of a consolation prize for not getting any of the others.

That being said, as I mention in a earlier thread, I might throw down for one if they stick around. But with a $50 spread between it and Weller 12yr, Weller definately has the edge. Three to one, those are some good odds.

B

camduncan
11-30-2012, 21:35
In my opinion Lot B is overpriced Weller 12. They both are the exact same recipe, same distillery, same barrels, same warehouses, etc. The only difference is that Julian gets first pick of the barrels for what goes into Lot B vs Weller 12. The difference in taste is not worth the premium Lot B carries in my mind. I passed on Lot B this year at $39.99. The same store had Liters of Weller 12 for $22.

Wow, as Lot B is my hands-down favourite Van Winkle, that makes me want to spring for shipping a case of Weller Downunder!

tommyboy38
11-30-2012, 21:40
I'm also a big fan of the Lot b and have a few in the bunker but i'm not sure I'd buy it at current prices.
When it was $35 or so, I always had a bottle open.

michaelturtle1
11-30-2012, 21:52
I agree, I would trade my PVW 20 for a few Lot Bs anytime... It is hands down my favorite bourbon

Special Reserve
12-01-2012, 05:46
Lot B is a one of my favorite pours. However, some don't like the low proof. I enjoy lower proof good bourbon.

BFerguson
12-01-2012, 06:12
Hmm... Lotta love for it, and I get that, when its good, it's great.

But do you you love or like it at the new price point??

B

WAINWRIGHT
12-01-2012, 06:24
I am also glad I have quite a few of these bunkered as pricing continues to rise.I do love W12 but feel the honey barrels selected for Lot B makes all the difference,that being said the last ones I picked up were $39.99.FWIW,this bottling seems to out last all other VW selections on the shelf in my area.

unclebunk
12-01-2012, 06:43
I am also glad I have quite a few of these bunkered as pricing continues to rise.I do love W12 but feel the honey barrels selected for Lot B makes all the difference,that being said the last ones I picked up were $39.99.FWIW,this bottling seems to out last all other VW selections on the shelf in my area.

My sentiments exactly. I thoroughly enjoy Weller 12 but feel that Lot B gives me a bit more for my money. When I was bunkering them a few years back my price was $35-$40. At $50-ish I start to balk at the price and look further down the shelf. That isn't to say that Lot B isn't worth $50, but I've had so much of it that I prefer to spend my money on things I haven't tried or very infrequently buy.

Tony
12-01-2012, 07:32
I agree, I would trade my PVW 20 for a few Lot Bs anytime... It is hands down my favorite bourbon

I would take that trade all day long. I love the PVW20, prefer it over all the others. The 23 may be a tad better but not when you factor in the price. I do enjoy the Lot B when I can find it at a decent price though.

Best regards, Tony

CADMixes
12-01-2012, 08:02
In my opinion Lot B is overpriced Weller 12. They both are the exact same recipe, same distillery, same barrels, same warehouses, etc. The only difference is that Julian gets first pick of the barrels for what goes into Lot B vs Weller 12.

It's worth noting that, for the time being, this isn't true. Lot B still contains some Bernheim juice. So you are not just paying for someone's Weller 12 barrel picks.

I've drank my way through a few bottles of both Weller 12 and Lot B over the years, and have a slight preference for Lot B. Not a triple the price preference, but a preference nonetheless.

p_elliott
12-01-2012, 08:27
I believe CADMixes is correct that the Lot B is at least part Bernheim bourbon. It's my favorite VW and I much prefer it over the Weller 12. Sorry Joe.

squire
12-01-2012, 09:11
I like Lot B, drank a lot of it over the years and it's worth what customers are willing to pay. For myself, no, the current cost exceeds my price/value requirements.

I also no longer buy Delamain Pale & Dry Cognac for the same reason.

Tucker
12-01-2012, 10:27
I like it and I've got several in the bunker but had to pass this time when it was offered at $65. The most I've paid was $44 and that was for the Spring 2011 allocation.

cowdery
12-01-2012, 12:03
I'm a long time Lot B fan. We don't talk about it much to keep it under the radar of the Van Winkle idiots. I have heard other people call it "Pappy 12-year-old."

White Dog
12-01-2012, 13:00
Should we really believe that there's still Bernheim juice being used??:skep:

camduncan
12-01-2012, 13:17
With the US prices being almost a third of Australian prices, you guys are getting a bargain..... I'd pay $50 for a Lot B any day of the week.... in fact, at that price I'd buy a case!

macdeffe
12-01-2012, 14:38
Cherry picked casks are the ones I am looking for. The lot B is one of my favourite bourbons, and I appreciate distilleries and producers that do the effort of finding these, instead of vatting everything together

Steffen

Rockefeller
12-01-2012, 23:42
(Edited. Unaware this was redundant with another thread)

Rockefeller
12-01-2012, 23:44
http://sourmashmanifesto.com/category/reviewsratings/w-l-weller/

Rockefeller
12-02-2012, 00:40
I'm a long time Lot B fan. We don't talk about it much to keep it under the radar of the Van Winkle idiots. I have heard other people call it "Pappy 12-year-old."

I think that ship sailed a while ago when it started selling for $120+ on eBay

LongBeachScott
12-02-2012, 13:09
I think the Lot B bottles I have had are generally better than bottles of Weller 12. I rarely see it anymore though. And I am afraid it isn't enough better than Weller 12 to get me to buy it at the prices some shops are asking.

Barclay Beach
12-02-2012, 13:15
http://sourmashmanifesto.com/category/reviewsratings/w-l-weller/

Jason probably says it better than I could in his review. Side by side, the Lot B is clearly superior to me. More complex, deep -- and the mouthfeel and finish are outstanding. In general, I would rate Lot B much higher if it had a better nose. In the bottles I've had the nose tends to be relatively subdued with a little the nail polish thing going on.

boneuphtoner
12-02-2012, 17:41
Thanks for all the comments.

The Lot B seems to be getting even better. When I did my comparison with Weller 12, it was on a bottle open for at least a month verus a freshly opened Lot B...given what I've read here and my own personal experience, that is spotting the Weller a huge advantage. In just a couple of days time, I'm sensing the Lot B is increasing what was a razor thin advantage over the Weller 12. I like the sourmash review, especially what he said about the mouthfeel. The similarities are very striking, but the Lot B seems a notch or two more refined. I would probably buy a bottle or two every year or so, but given that it is twice the price, probably not more than that.

Special Reserve
12-02-2012, 17:58
Thanks for all the comments.

The Lot B seems to be getting even better. When I did my comparison with Weller 12, it was on a bottle open for at least a month verus a freshly opened Lot B...given what I've read here and my own personal experience, that is spotting the Weller a huge advantage. In just a couple of days time, I'm sensing the Lot B is increasing what was a razor thin advantage over the Weller 12. I like the sourmash review, especially what he said about the mouthfeel. The similarities are very striking, but the Lot B seems a notch or two more refined. I would probably buy a bottle or two every year or so, but given that it is twice the price, probably not more than that.

As is characteristic of wheated bourbon, it does seem to get better after it has been opened for awhile.

HP12
12-02-2012, 18:13
As is characteristic of wheated bourbon, it does seem to get better after it has been opened for awhile.

Cosign that observation. No doubt those wheaters generally improve over the long haul once opened.

cowdery
12-03-2012, 17:52
Should we really believe that there's still Bernheim juice being used??:skep:

BT got a big stock of Bernheim juice in 1999 when they bought the Weller brand. It would have included barrels of varying ages, including some distilled in 1999. Being that's only 13 years ago and Lot B is a 12 years old, and there's probably still some Lot B in the pipeline that was bottled in 2011 and 2010, sure, you can probably buy a bottle that has some Bernheim in it, and it's not unreasonable to think there might be a little Bernheim left at BT. Why wouldn't there be?

Josh
12-03-2012, 17:58
Cosign that observation. No doubt those wheaters generally improve over the long haul once opened.

No math, please.

White Dog
12-03-2012, 19:39
BT got a big stock of Bernheim juice in 1999 when they bought the Weller brand. It would have included barrels of varying ages, including some distilled in 1999. Being that's only 13 years ago and Lot B is a 12 years old, and there's probably still some Lot B in the pipeline that was bottled in 2011 and 2010, sure, you can probably buy a bottle that has some Bernheim in it, and it's not unreasonable to think there might be a little Bernheim left at BT. Why wouldn't there be?

Fair enough. Maybe they're still using stocks from Bernheim. I will never know.

But would the fall 2012 Lot B release have been bottled in 2011? Maybe. Also, with Pappy 15 being all BT(We think.), and with Weller 12 being scarce, and with OWA and WSR having no age statements, would BT still be holding onto some old Bernheim stock? Maybe.

Don't get me wrong. I love both Lot B and Weller 12. Is Lot B a big step up for my palate, yes, but I would attribute that to barrel selection.

Would it be fair to say that the 2013 release of Lot Bernheim will be all BT? At some point, and that point is soon, they should change the name to Lot BT.

mosugoji64
12-03-2012, 20:07
Lot Bernheim

Love that! :lol:

Smithford
12-04-2012, 07:10
Lot BernheimLove that! :lol:

I have always assumed that's why it was named Lot "B".

Josh
12-04-2012, 07:18
I have always assumed that's why it was named Lot "B".

The first run of the product was actually called "Lot A" IIRC.

Crowes
12-04-2012, 07:40
Being that I only recently got into the world of bourbon earlier this year, this was my first fall trying to procure any of the Van Winkles. I managed to grab a 10 yr, 12 yr Lot B, and a 20. I have to say, the Lot "B" is my personal favorite. The 20 year is a beautiful whiskey, but there something about the intense dark fruit nature of the Lot "B" that I really love. I haven't had the pleasure of trying the Weller, but if it's anything close to the Lot "B" I'd be buying a ton of it. But I would have no problem spending $59 again if I could find any more bottles, which, I know I can't at this point. Boo.

fricky
12-04-2012, 07:56
Being that I only recently got into the world of bourbon earlier this year, this was my first fall trying to procure any of the Van Winkles. I managed to grab a 10 yr, 12 yr Lot B, and a 20. I have to say, the Lot "B" is my personal favorite. The 20 year is a beautiful whiskey, but there something about the intense dark fruit nature of the Lot "B" that I really love. I haven't had the pleasure of trying the Weller, but if it's anything close to the Lot "B" I'd be buying a ton of it. But I would have no problem spending $59 again if I could find any more bottles, which, I know I can't at this point. Boo.

Weller Antique is superior to Lot B. Lot B is overrated and overpriced.

DaveOfAtl
12-04-2012, 07:58
Weller Antique is superior to Lot B. Lot B is overrated and overpriced.

Crap! Guess I better give my bottles away. And here I was thinking that I liked it WAY better than OWA. Stupid me.

Crowes
12-04-2012, 08:09
lol. I will say that the I recently found a few older bottles of OWA with the age statement still on the bottle. So much better than the new bottle of OWA I initially tried. But still, no where close to Lot "B" :).

fricky
12-04-2012, 10:17
Crap! Guess I better give my bottles away. And here I was thinking that I liked it WAY better than OWA. Stupid me.

I thought that the opinions expresed were exactly that - an opinion. I think Weller Antique is superior to Lot B. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree. We all have different tastes in bourbon. We can express our opinion and not expect a sarcastic and silly response.

tanstaafl2
12-04-2012, 10:54
Weller Antique is superior to Lot B. Lot B is overrated and overpriced.



I thought that the opinions expresed were exactly that - an opinion. I think Weller Antique is superior to Lot B. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree. We all have different tastes in bourbon. We can express our opinion and not expect a sarcastic and silly response.


Certainly didn't seem to come across as an expression of an opinion to me. Sounded rather more like you were making a statement of fact and that nothing more needed to be said, particularly with the second and unnecessary second sentence in your post.

Saying "I think" or "I believe" or "In my opinion" might have helped clarify the matter ever so slightly (whatever Josh (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?18866-K-amp-L-Fear-Tactics&p=311404&viewfull=1#post311404) might think of doing that!).

Just my opinion of course...

fricky
12-04-2012, 11:11
If anyone makes a comment concerning a product, normally it is assumed that the comment is the opinion of the individual making the comment. Stating "in my opinion" or "I believe" seems to be redundant. If I state it, I believe it and it is my opinion. This is my last off-topic comment here, since we strayed from the subject.

DaveOfAtl
12-04-2012, 11:15
Certainly didn't seem to come across as an expression of an opinion to me. Sounded rather more like you were making a statement of fact and that nothing more needed to be said, particularly with the second and unnecessary second sentence in your post.

Saying "I think" or "I believe" or "In my opinion" might have helped clarify the matter ever so slightly (whatever Josh might think of doing that!).

Just my opinion of course...

Well said.


wordswords

callmeox
12-04-2012, 11:53
We all offer opinions here and some more strongly than others.

Let's just understand that and move along.

CADMixes
12-04-2012, 19:03
Fair enough. Maybe they're still using stocks from Bernheim. I will never know.

But would the fall 2012 Lot B release have been bottled in 2011? Maybe. Also, with Pappy 15 being all BT(We think.), and with Weller 12 being scarce, and with OWA and WSR having no age statements, would BT still be holding onto some old Bernheim stock? Maybe.

Don't get me wrong. I love both Lot B and Weller 12. Is Lot B a big step up for my palate, yes, but I would attribute that to barrel selection.

Would it be fair to say that the 2013 release of Lot Bernheim will be all BT? At some point, and that point is soon, they should change the name to Lot BT.

White Dog, much love, but why do "we" think Pappy 15 is all BT? http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2012/06/11/what%E2%80%99s-in-that-bottle-of-van-winkle-anyway/

White Dog
12-04-2012, 20:30
White Dog, much love, but why do "we" think Pappy 15 is all BT? http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2012/06/11/what%E2%80%99s-in-that-bottle-of-van-winkle-anyway/

No offense to Chuck, but that interview came after Wheatley said that is was all BT. Was that interview spin control? The youngest DSP-16 is 20yrs old.

But hey, maybe BT is still adding just a touch of pixie dust to the Pappy 15 mix. Believe it if you want.

And let me add there's nothing wrong with BT Wheated Bourbon, IMHO.

MrAtomic
12-04-2012, 20:44
So, uh... did anyone else read the title of this thread and say it out loud in a Jerry Seinfeld voice?

And to contribute, I used to buy as much Lot B as I could find, but local stores have priced it beyond sanity. When an $65-80 bottle of Lot B is sitting near a $27 bottle of Weller 12 or a $22 bottle of Weller Antique, it's not hard to pass up. I always found lots of sweet, cherry flavors in Lot B that I don't get in most Weller bottlings (although the recent Party Source Weller Antique had plenty of it). It's a shame because I'd pay up to $45 or so for Lot B. Once it creeps towards twice the price of Weller 12, though, I'm no longer interested.

macdeffe
12-08-2012, 02:38
do like Lot B a lot and its not that hard to find on the shelves here in DK. At least it was, I bought a couple so it is getting more scarce

here are de danish importers description (my translation) : A tremendous bourbon with a high rye content. There is absolutely no doubt about that"

I tried to email them and saying it was a misdescription, but they didnt answer me. Well, the danish importer always appeared very arrogant to me, both in online behaviour on forums, on fairs and tastings so no surprise there. I remember (politely actually) pointing out on a fair that Templeton Rye was not made in Iowa (as their guy on the stand kept saying). I got an answer in the catagory "Shut up, you dont have a clue"

:-)

squire
12-08-2012, 11:41
Regrettably mac, there are those who don't want to be bothered with the facts.