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Jasongar8
12-03-2012, 18:36
I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were
ORVW- $69.99
Lot B- $99.99
PVW 15- $159.99
PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

Ejmharris
12-03-2012, 18:55
I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were
ORVW- $69.99
Lot B- $99.99
PVW 15- $159.99
PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

Ok before everyone piles on let's leave it at a single response.

Jason, there have been several similar threads recently that are listing recent prices. The average retail prices did take a jump this year but not that much. Take a look at the PVW 23 thread for what others are seeing.

Jasongar8
12-03-2012, 19:05
Sorry about that. I'll read a little more before I ask anything else.

I have only been into bourbon for about six months so I didn't know about price hikes from last year.

A Mod. can close this if need be.

Rockefeller
12-03-2012, 19:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf7uJDhVZIE

mosugoji64
12-03-2012, 20:17
I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were
ORVW- $69.99
Lot B- $99.99
PVW 15- $159.99
PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

That's insanity. Yeah, it's good stuff but not worth bankrupting yourself. Keep looking, and in the meantime buy something that you'll probably enjoy just as much for a fraction of the price.

HP12
12-04-2012, 06:49
I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were
ORVW- $69.99
Lot B- $99.99
PVW 15- $159.99
PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

Good targeted thread topic Jason. The pricing information regarding PVW is strewn over dozens of threads and your title helps zero in on specific pricing around the country. What has become a very apparent and large leap in retail prices for Van Winkle products this fall, this thread is quite appropriate and interesting.

Here in VA, the only VW product available is PVW20 thru special order, and even that is highly allocated to a trickle of cases entering the state. Last fall PVW20 was $109, this year the state controlled liquor monopoly is fetching $135 per bottle...which I guess is a bargain compared to many other areas.

Welcome to the journey Jason and thanks for contributing and for posting about such a popular topic, VW product. Those are some wildly high prices you have alerted us to.

Smithford
12-04-2012, 14:36
Not sure if this thread will go anywhere, but I thought I'd offer my 2 cents FWIW.

Here in Ontario, liquor is not only state controlled, but also brutally taxed. On average, we pay about 50% premium over US prices (it varies from about 30% more to double in some cases). This summer, Pappy 20 was made available on a special order basis for $120. We didn't get any other Van Winkle products. The same special order offered this year's Stagg & ER17 for $100. Some years ORVW10/90 and/or Lot B show up on shelf, in minimal quantities. Last year they were available, at $55 and $72 respectively.

Our prices on a few other BT bottles, for reference: BT $40, ETL $55, ER10 $48, Baby Saz $45.

The moral of my story? We get hosed on the regular releases, but for whatever reason the allocated bottles are priced reasonably. Go figure.

fishnbowljoe
12-04-2012, 15:14
The average Pappy price........ is above average.:rolleyes: Kinda says it all in a nutshell.

stevegoz
12-05-2012, 10:04
Saw some Lot B in the wild yesterday for $99.99.

At the same store where I bought all of my PVW20 for the same price less than two years ago.

Decided I'm good with the handful of ORVW107s, VWFRRs, PVW15s and PVW20s that I've got bunkered.

Enoch
12-05-2012, 10:22
Around Columbia, PVW15 has gone for $80, Lot B $55, Saz 18 $55, and ER17 $65 this fall.

CaptainQ
12-05-2012, 11:48
Saw some Lot B in the wild yesterday for $99.99.

At the same store where I bought all of my PVW20 for the same price less than two years ago.

Decided I'm good with the handful of ORVW107s, VWFRRs, PVW15s and PVW20s that I've got bunkered.

At some point you have to say enough​ and be content with what you have. I'll just wait for the bubble to burst. In the mean time, I'll be enjoying my Four Roses and OWA. :yum:

Old Lamplighter
12-05-2012, 18:33
I spent some of this past Saturday and parts of the last 3 evenings trying to gather in a few bottles I had put off buying as the Christmas rush tends to empty out some of the better offerings in my area. In doing so, I asked about the rumored Pappy arrival in the Memphis metro area. Same story everywhere I went: just a few select stores received any at all and the few who did had everything spoken for already. While this was not totally unexpected, what was unexpected was to find out how very little came into the area: somewhere between 24-48 bottles in total spread out between about a dozen stores. This is a reduction of more than 50% from this time last year. A few stores said they got a grand total of 1 bottle. Also, it does not appear that any VWFRR was shipped to said area. Also, what was even more disconcerting was hearing that there will be a 25% price increase in the 2013 Pappy release. All in all, glad I was not in the hunt this year and if the price increase is more than rumor, not likely I will ever again get a "Pappy Hunting License".

ChainWhip
12-05-2012, 18:57
In Washington state, there were very few bottles allocated in general and the distributor who has monopoly on BTAC/Pappy has been denying bottles to retailers (saving the bulk of the bottles for restaurants).

Given the recent transition from State Monopoly, all-time Pappy/BTAC hype, and Young's Distributors unpopular (some would say unfair) practices, we are seeing an already ridiculous scene exacerbated by this perfect storm of circumstances.

LostBottle
12-05-2012, 19:02
Also, what was even more disconcerting was hearing that there will be a 25% price increase in the 2013 Pappy release.

OMG PVW WTF!?

A 25% price increase is steep. This is especially true since since there was already a large increase this year which is compounded.

callmeox
12-05-2012, 19:07
This is another thread that I really don't want to wade in to, but I can't help myself.

Many SB'ers noticed the additional marketing push by the Van Winkles in the last few years and there were some questions here about the motivation.

I wonder if the expanded marketing and increase in retail pricing is just a factor of the difference between the cost of the SW barrels that they sourced and bottled for years and new pricing for the BT distillate? At the time that they picked off the old SW stock, aged bourbon wasn't in great demand so prices should have been relatively low. Now that they have built their brand, I would guess that the cost of the BT distillate is much higher, hence the retail increase to maintain their margins.

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

yountvillewjs
12-05-2012, 19:14
My guess is that production has remained steady, but the demand by restaurants (and perhaps even an emphasis by the Van Winkles) has made a hard product almost extinct in the wild. Happens in the wine business all the time and is highly successful, if you can pull it off. See: Baby Saz. Good on them and keep your hands off my 4R.

WAINWRIGHT
12-05-2012, 19:19
I wonder if the expanded marketing and increase in retail pricing is just a factor of the difference between the cost of the SW barrels that they sourced and bottled for years and new pricing for the BT distillate? At the time that they picked off the old SW stock, aged bourbon wasn't in great demand so prices should have been relatively low. Now that they have built their brand, I would guess that the cost of the BT distillate is much higher, hence the retail increase to maintain their margins.

Just thinking out loud, I guess.
This is quite a valid point brought forth and an angle that I really hadn't considered,but in the big picture of marketing strategy the pricing itself fits well within the bracket between the CEHT line and BTAC so,I guess it really kind of makes sense.

Old Lamplighter
12-05-2012, 20:13
OMG PVW WTF!?

A 25% price increase is steep. This is especially true since since there was already a large increase this year which is compounded.
I'm really hoping this to have been just rumor or gross exaggeration by the stores who told me this. If this trend continues, a day will come sooner rather than later when we will see the shelves remain stocked & full well beyond the annual release dates.

Old Lamplighter
12-05-2012, 20:21
This is quite a valid point brought forth and an angle that I really hadn't considered,but in the big picture of marketing strategy the pricing itself fits well within the bracket between the CEHT line and BTAC so,I guess it really kind of makes sense.

While I fully support the capitalist free market system of supply & demand....still, I find myself wondering from time to time how much Pappy as well as many other wonderful Kentucky products are sent offshore for higher profit margins while we search, scratch & claw to find the few bottles that are made available to the homeland....just a passing thought.

skidfive
12-05-2012, 20:30
While I fully support the capitalist free market system of supply & demand....still, I find myself wondering from time to time how much Pappy as well as many other wonderful Kentucky products are sent offshore for higher profit margins while we search, scratch & claw to find the few bottles that are made available to the homeland....just a passing thought.

On that point, no so much on the pappys, but there are numerous sites selling BTAC from around $140 a bottle in europe. some of the sites have stock of stagg and weller from 2009 and 2010. almost all have handy and saz18 as well. seems offshore is definitely getting more bottles then are selling while as you said, people are lining up here trying to get one bottle of any BTAC available just to have one from that year.

Rockefeller
12-05-2012, 21:51
I don't see anything wrong with Pappy being "unaffordable" in the future. It's time they priced it to the point that it stays in stock on shelves for more than a day. If pushing PVW15 to $500+ MSRP is what it takes to bring sanity upon society, then I am all for it. The eBay and now Craigslist issue is indicative of a problem that isn't going away (black market = market inefficiency) and there's no point for the brand to pretend that's it's accessible to the average joe anymore.

T Comp
12-05-2012, 22:20
My guess is that production has remained steady, but the demand by restaurants (and perhaps even an emphasis by the Van Winkles) has made a hard product almost extinct in the wild. Happens in the wine business all the time and is highly successful, if you can pull it off. See: Baby Saz. Good on them and keep your hands off my 4R.

I believe it is more than a guess on your part Will and that is another big part of what's happening. Nick Kocanas of Chicago's Aviary proves you correct when he says "The Pappy 20 is always available as a single pour.... we sell a lot but won't run out (we've put effort into stocking up so it doesn't become a seasonal product with us)." Aviary has only been open for a year and a half (April 23, 2011) with people lined up for 6 hours before its doors opened on that day and it's frenzy continues.

And in the spirit of the season and as a public service to all Van Winkle crazies I'll even do you all a favor of linking to this Pappy at restaurants/bars locator compliments of the Eater site http://eater.com/archives/2012/11/29/the-eater-pappy-locator-where-to-find-pappy-right-now-1.php

White Dog
12-05-2012, 22:53
In the wine and spirits game of sales, on-premise always gets preference. ALWAYS.

The are plenty of sought-after wine labels that will tell their wholesalers what percentage must go to on-premise(restaurants). Sometimes it's 75-80%. In a couple of cases, such as Navarro out of Anderson Valley, it's 100% on-premise. And prior to Brown-Forman purchasing Sonoma-Cutrer and ramping production to create an off-premise(retail) sku, that winery was 100% on-premise as well, or at least it was supposed to be.(Small amounts will always slip thru the cracks.) Any wholesaler who would violate Sonoma-Cutrer's rule would either be punished by smaller allocation, or fired as a partner.

The producers' thinking behind all this, is that if you are a highly sought-after brand with limited availability, on-premise sales will touch more consumers, rather than the hoarding aspect, as well as the price deflation, of off-premise.

By touching more consumers, you are doing a better job of "brand-building." At least that's the theory.

Rockefeller
12-06-2012, 08:06
By the way everyone, the number of "Empty" bottles and bags on a certain website is starting to get ridiculous.

silverfish
12-06-2012, 08:35
By the way everyone, the number of "Empty" bottles and bags on a certain website is starting to get ridiculous.

Putting empty is in quotes doesn't mean you will get a full bottle
and I'd guess buyers would have no recourse with ebay despite
any "Ask seller a question" replies they might have received prior
to the auction end.

jsVA
12-06-2012, 08:39
On that point, no so much on the pappys, but there are numerous sites selling BTAC from around $140 a bottle in europe. some of the sites have stock of stagg and weller from 2009 and 2010. almost all have handy and saz18 as well. seems offshore is definitely getting more bottles then are selling while as you said, people are lining up here trying to get one bottle of any BTAC available just to have one from that year.
Just to continue on offshore prices, I was in a shop in London a couple of months ago that was selling either Baker's or Bookers for GBP90 a bottle while Pappy 15 yr was listed at GBP70 at this same shop.

p_elliott
12-06-2012, 09:35
The truth is guys it's just not that good for the money. They can sell it for a $1000 a bottle I'm done with it. It's all hype now. I'm also tired of this annual ritual of 15 to 30 or more threads on Pappy and BTAC you can only beat a dead horse so much. :soapbox:

Josh
12-06-2012, 09:42
The truth is guys it's just not that good for the money. They can sell it for a $1000 a bottle I'm done with it. It's all hype now. I'm also tired of this annual ritual of 15 to 30 or more threads on Pappy and BTAC you can only beat a dead horse so much. :soapbox:

:iagreejeff: Err, Paul.

Restaurant man
12-06-2012, 11:46
The truth is guys it's just not that good for the money. They can sell it for a $1000 a bottle I'm done with it. It's all hype now. I'm also tired of this annual ritual of 15 to 30 or more threads on Pappy and BTAC you can only beat a dead horse so much. :soapbox:
Re: Once a year allocation for Pappy?
This is the most exciting news to hit these boards in months!!!!! Now, I only have to get through the fortyeleven PVW threads that coincide with it's release just once per year!!! Only once per year will I have to gut it through......"Anybody know when Pappy's release date is?"; "Wahoo, I'm the first to report seeing Pappy in a store!!!!! :woohoo:"; "My store only got 1 bottle of 15. :smiley_acbt::banghead:::hot::smiley_acbt:. How many did your store get???" "Is Pappy 15 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Is Pappy 20 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Is Pappy 23 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Damn this chafes my shorts, the 15 yr is $114 here!!! :hot::hot::hot:How much is it in your area???"; "Hi my name is Mort, i just signed up here...can anyone tell me where I can buy Pappy?"; "Anybody seen Pappy in Cooter Station, West Virginia yet?"; "Hey, can anyone tell me if my bottle is Stitzel-Weller?"; "Sound off! Who has their Pappy?"; "This Pappy is great juice....Who agrees with me?!?!?!":bowdown::bowdown:; "Good News! Webcam showing Pappy being bottled today!!!!"; "So, when did Stitzel-Weller stop distilling?"; "How much do the Pappy's cost in your area??"; "Somebody stole my Pappy!! :hot::hot::hot:"; "Why can't they just start up Stitzel-Weller again??:(:(:(:("; "Preston just tweeted that Pappy 15 is really 15 years and 3 MONTHS!!!!!" :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:; "Are we sure the 15 year is now BT??????"; "Goodbye all, I dropped my Pappy....BANG!! :pope:"; "What's 1,992 + 15???"; "Is Stizzel-Willur still distilling?"; "What should I do with my 17 bottles of Pappy 15???" :confused::confused:; "Is E-Bay a good place to buy Pappy 15??" :confused::confused:; "I know this has probably been asked before, but does anyone know if the current release of Pappy 15 is from the legendary Stitzel-Weller Distillery??"


Ahhhhh. The Springs will be so nice....:bis::bis::bis:


this post from smokin joe still gives me a lot of pleasure !

p_elliott
12-06-2012, 11:54
Re: Once a year allocation for Pappy?


This is the most exciting news to hit these boards in months!!!!! Now, I only have to get through the fortyeleven PVW threads that coincide with it's release just once per year!!! Only once per year will I have to gut it through......"Anybody know when Pappy's release date is?"; "Wahoo, I'm the first to report seeing Pappy in a store!!!!! :woohoo:"; "My store only got 1 bottle of 15. :smiley_acbt::banghead:::hot::smiley_acbt:. How many did your store get???" "Is Pappy 15 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Is Pappy 20 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Is Pappy 23 still Stitzel-Weller?"; "Damn this chafes my shorts, the 15 yr is $114 here!!! :hot::hot::hot:How much is it in your area???"; "Hi my name is Mort, i just signed up here...can anyone tell me where I can buy Pappy?"; "Anybody seen Pappy in Cooter Station, West Virginia yet?"; "Hey, can anyone tell me if my bottle is Stitzel-Weller?"; "Sound off! Who has their Pappy?"; "This Pappy is great juice....Who agrees with me?!?!?!":bowdown::bowdown:; "Good News! Webcam showing Pappy being bottled today!!!!"; "So, when did Stitzel-Weller stop distilling?"; "How much do the Pappy's cost in your area??"; "Somebody stole my Pappy!! :hot::hot::hot:"; "Why can't they just start up Stitzel-Weller again??:(:(:(:("; "Preston just tweeted that Pappy 15 is really 15 years and 3 MONTHS!!!!!" :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:; "Are we sure the 15 year is now BT??????"; "Goodbye all, I dropped my Pappy....BANG!! :pope:"; "What's 1,992 + 15???"; "Is Stizzel-Willur still distilling?"; "What should I do with my 17 bottles of Pappy 15???" :confused::confused:; "Is E-Bay a good place to buy Pappy 15??" :confused::confused:; "I know this has probably been asked before, but does anyone know if the current release of Pappy 15 is from the legendary Stitzel-Weller Distillery??"


Ahhhhh. The Springs will be so nice....:bis::bis::bis:


this post from smokin joe still gives me a lot of pleasure !
:bowdown:
LOL :bowdown:

Phil T
12-06-2012, 13:04
Joe's Pappy post is one for the ages. It will go down in SB history as one of the all time greats..

Rockefeller
12-06-2012, 13:07
David has spoken: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2012/12/6/whisky-bubble-were-never-going-back.html

tanstaafl2
12-06-2012, 13:30
David has spoken: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2012/12/6/whisky-bubble-were-never-going-back.html

I am also inclined to think the so called bubble isn't likely to burst any time soon. Not only is there the billion plus people in the Chinese market with lots of potential for growth left but there is the Indian market and their billion plus population that remains to be further exploited.

Although as for never, well that is a very long time!

Rockefeller
12-06-2012, 13:43
I am also inclined to think the so called bubble isn't likely to burst any time soon. Not only is there the billion plus people in the Chinese market with lots of potential for growth left but there is the Indian market and their billion plus population that remains to be further exploited.

Although as for never, well that is a very long time!

I tell this all the time to people who don't know: China loves loves LOVES whiskey (cognac too). The Chinese population not only enjoys it on a basic level but they also frequently give it as business gifts (huge amount spent on this). Thus far, most of this demand has gone towards scotch and quite a bit of garbage like Johnnie Walker. But those tastes and preferences will change over time as the upper-middle class makes a greater shift towards premium whiskeys including American ones. There is no doubt in my mind that China will be the largest consumer of whiskey in the near future.

unclebunk
12-06-2012, 14:16
I tell this all the time to people who don't know: China loves loves LOVES whiskey (cognac too). The Chinese population not only enjoys it on a basic level but they also frequently give it as business gifts (huge amount spent on this). Thus far, most of this demand has gone towards scotch and quite a bit of garbage like Johnnie Walker. But those tastes and preferences will change over time as the upper-middle class makes a greater shift towards premium whiskeys including American ones. There is no doubt in my mind that China will be the largest consumer of whiskey in the near future.

Huh? Johnnie Walker Blue is certainly overpriced but it is far from "garbage." If you have any extra bottles laying around and feel like getting rid of them, be sure to send them my way first.:grin:

Rockefeller
12-06-2012, 14:30
Huh? Johnnie Walker Blue is certainly overpriced but it is far from "garbage." If you have any extra bottles laying around and feel like getting rid of them, be sure to send them my way first.:grin:

JW Green is the only one I'd put my time/money towards and they are discontinuing it because it "confuses" their consumers within the brand :skep:. Blue is a decent dram for sure; I think I'm angrier at the people who think it's "the best"

unclebunk
12-06-2012, 14:36
JW Green is the only one I'd put my time/money towards and they discontinuing it because it "confuses" their consumers within the brand :skep:. Blue is a decent dram for sure; I think I'm angrier at the people who think it's "the best"

And, of course, it is ridiculously priced at $170-ish. At even half that price it would be a questionable outlay of money, though I'm happy to drink it when others are buying. (We have a doctor friend who buys it by the case, especially around the holidays, and when he puts a bottle in front of me and tells me to help myself, I helps myself. Can't disobey doctor's orders!)

LostBottle
12-06-2012, 15:54
Johnnie Walker Blue is the Pappy Van Winkle of the Scotch world.

JB64
12-06-2012, 16:32
Johnnie Walker Blue is the Pappy Van Winkle of the Scotch world.

I feel the same way. I have seen posters scoff at the thought of someone laying down a couple of bills for JW Blue then post about paying the same amount or more for a bottle of PVW23. In my opinion both are way overpriced based on my PV benchmarks. On the other hand like Unclebunk noted if someone pours me a glass of either I will gladly accept. Cheers.

wripvanwrinkle
12-06-2012, 16:53
I think that a better analogy is to say that PVW23 is the Port Ellen of the bourbon world. Nobody is putting bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue away as an example of a distillery long closed.

Although many purchasing decisions might be driven from a magazine article or to fill a sense of ego, it is a little disingenuous to dismiss the other variables in the PVW23 price to value equation.

Josh
12-06-2012, 17:02
I think Pappy 15 is the Carcharodontosaurus of wheaters.

portwood
12-06-2012, 17:07
I think that a better analogy is to say that PVW23 is the Port Ellen of the bourbon world. Nobody is putting bottles of Johnnie Walker Blue away as an example of a distillery long closed.

Port Ellen and Brora.

Halifax
12-06-2012, 17:17
The Pappy bubble will NOT bust anytime soon. They purposefully limit supply and distribution. They have learned that their retail prices were low by virtue of the secondary market. Price increases will come with each new seasonal release. The only thing that will change is that the enthusiasts who built the brand will simply walk away from it at some point.

LostBottle
12-06-2012, 17:21
People buy Port Ellen to obtain good whisky from a shuttered distillery. Currently, most people buy Pappy Van Winkle for the name, a la Johnnie Walker Blue. They don't know or care that the juice, or a good portion therof, is from Buffalo Trace and not S/W. The Pappy 23 is the lone exception, but ironically it is the 15 and 20 that people are primarily after. Comparing PVW to PE insults Port Ellen.

Old Lamplighter
12-06-2012, 17:23
The only thing that will change is that the enthusiasts who built the brand will simply walk away from it at some point.

From all indications & soothsayers alike, I think the exodus has begun.

wripvanwrinkle
12-06-2012, 20:41
People buy Port Ellen to obtain good whisky from a shuttered distillery. Currently, most people buy Pappy Van Winkle for the name, a la Johnnie Walker Blue. They don't know or care that the juice, or a good portion therof, is from Buffalo Trace and not S/W. The Pappy 23 is the lone exception, but ironically it is the 15 and 20 that people are primarily after. Comparing PVW to PE insults Port Ellen.


And yet i compared PVW23 with Port Ellen rather than the PVW20/PVW 15. I diasagree with your vehement comparison of the two. They are both fine whiskey. Neither is my favorite.

Not towards you, Lost Bottle, but I'm not sure what I find more fascinating: the irrational PVW love or the passionate backlash.

Restaurant man
12-06-2012, 21:46
And yet i compared PVW23 with Port Ellen rather than the PVW20/PVW 15. I diasagree with your vehement comparison of the two. They are both fine whiskey. Neither is my favorite.

Not towards you, Lost Bottle, but I'm not sure what I find more fascinating: the irrational PVW love or the passionate backlash.

Just remember... Money is not the root of all evil. It is the 'love' of money...

Josh
12-07-2012, 05:04
Pappy 20 is more of an Allosaurus I think.

Rockefeller
12-07-2012, 09:06
Bringing things back to the issue of pricing, I have a fairly rudimentary way of calculating my potential "price ceiling": How much would I pay for this drink at a bar?

If the highest I would ever pay for a PVW15 at a bar is $15, then I should also be willing to pay up to ~$190/bottle - given each 750ml bottle has a little over twelve 2oz servings. This obviously does not take into account all types of factors (like gratuity, opportunity costs of buying other bottles, the value of being in a bar atmosphere with friends, how drunk you were at the time of purchase, etc.) but you get my point.

p_elliott
12-07-2012, 09:25
Bringing things back to the issue of pricing, I have a fairly rudimentary way of calculating my potential "price ceiling": How much would I pay for this drink at a bar?

If the highest I would ever pay for a PVW15 at a bar is $15, then I should also be willing to pay up to ~$190/bottle - given each 750ml bottle has a little over twelve 2oz servings. This obviously does not take into account all types of factors (like gratuity, opportunity costs of buying other bottles, the value of being in a bar atmosphere with friends, how drunk you were at the time of purchase, etc.) but you get my point.

Lets not be giving these distilleries any ideas.

Trey Manthey
12-07-2012, 09:38
If the highest I would ever pay for a PVW15 at a bar is $15, then I should also be willing to pay up to ~$190/bottle - given each 750ml bottle has a little over twelve 2oz servings. This obviously does not take into account all types of factors (like gratuity, opportunity costs of buying other bottles, the value of being in a bar atmosphere with friends, how drunk you were at the time of purchase, etc.) but you get my point.

I do consider this when ordering drinks at a bar or deciding to buy a bottle, but as you disclaim, it's not an even comparison. My formula is basically:

((Most I would pay for 2oz at a bar/restaurant under normal circumstances) x 12.5) / 2 = Most I will pay for a bottle

In this case, I'm with you on the max $15 for a pour of PVW15 at a bar. Dividing by two is the "service and atmosphere" factor. So the most I would pay for a bottle of PVW15 is $93.75. I passed on it yesterday for $99, but I didn't break out the calculator; I just knew that was more than I thought it was worth. I now know why the old fogies around here feel like, as it was usually $60 - $80 in the past releases.

Apparently the distributor round these parts (Republic) decided to hike their VW prices by 50% this year, and the retailers have responded in kind.

JPBoston
12-07-2012, 09:55
Here in Phoenix, AZ ---

2011 -- I had just started my bourbon adventure and noticed ORVW 10/107 for $39.99. Didn't take the jump though, as I didn't feel I'd be able to fully 'appreciate' anything that high end. There were also many bottles of Lot B to be had, and they were either $45 or $49.99 if memory serves.

2012 -- ORVW is now $44.99. Didn't see any Lot B's. Will keep an eye out though.

Rockefeller
12-07-2012, 10:29
I do consider this when ordering drinks at a bar or deciding to buy a bottle, but as you disclaim, it's not an even comparison. My formula is basically:

((Most I would pay for 2oz at a bar/restaurant under normal circumstances) x 12.5) / 2 = Most I will pay for a bottle

In this case, I'm with you on the max $15 for a pour of PVW15 at a bar. Dividing by two is the "service and atmosphere" factor. So the most I would pay for a bottle of PVW15 is $93.75. I passed on it yesterday for $99, but I didn't break out the calculator; I just knew that was more than I thought it was worth. I now know why the old fogies around here feel like, as it was usually $60 - $80 in the past releases.

Apparently the distributor round these parts (Republic) decided to hike their VW prices by 50% this year, and the retailers have responded in kind.

I forgot to note in my argument that this presents an interest conundrum because absolutely no bar in NYC would serve PVW15 for only $15. A closer starting point for PVW15 in NYC is probably $25+. We also need to factor in the idea that by-and-by, the price of PVW isn't going anywhere but up. I personally would have picked up that bottle for $99 because I literally wouldn't be able to buy if for less than $99 anywhere else and probably won't be able to for the rest of my life (insert dramatic music here).

Rockefeller
12-07-2012, 11:41
FYI, my local swanky bar has upped their prices for a 3oz serving to:

Lot B - $40
PVW15 - $50
PVW23 - $70 (a relative steal)

For comparison, a MM is $12.50

wildcatdon
12-07-2012, 11:50
Halifax I am one of those who is walking away...Done..

mosugoji64
12-07-2012, 14:03
Held a bottle of 15 in my hand last year but passed on it since the $80 price tag seemed, at the time, to be a little too salty. Meh. Chalk me up as another who is fine with walking away. Plenty of other fish in the whiskey sea ...:rolleyes:

TheOakMonster
12-07-2012, 14:51
Our store in central NY sold our lone bottle of ORVW10 at $40 and lone bottle of Lot B for $55. That's all we were allocated this year and the same last year (and we're not a small store). Guess all the Pappy bottles are being allocated to NYC bars or something.

SMOWK
12-07-2012, 15:53
The prices are only high at retail. From Sazerac, the price for a bottle of PVW15 has gone up less than $10/bottle over the past 4 or 5 years. Blame distributors and retailers, not JVW/BT.

frayed99
12-07-2012, 16:29
I didn't notice a massive price jump in WNY (other than on the 23), but it was much harder to find any of the VW's than it was last year. A manager at one large store told me that the owner held back his allotment on the VWFRR, 20 and 23 for friends, and the 10/107, Lot B, and 15 were gone the same day they received them. Last year, this store had the 15 on the shelf for a few days and the Old Rip and Lot B were available for at least 2-3 weeks.

In a loosely related note, I stumbled across a fairly substantial supply of Weller 12 today at $22/bottle...less than their price on OWA.

HP12
12-07-2012, 16:48
I didn't notice a massive price jump in WNY (other than on the 23), but it was much harder to find any of the VW's than it was last year. A manager at one large store told me that the owner held back his allotment on the VWFRR, 20 and 23 for friends, and the 10/107, Lot B, and 15 were gone the same day they received them. Last year, this store had the 15 on the shelf for a few days and the Old Rip and Lot B were available for at least 2-3 weeks.

In a loosely related note, I stumbled across a fairly substantial supply of Weller 12 today at $22/bottle...less than their price on OWA.

Interesting report on VW availability in your area. Nice Weller 12 find! Bunker my friend, bunker.

Josh
12-07-2012, 20:34
Pappy 23=Dilophosaurus

Yes, all large theropods. Make of that what you will.

bigtoys
12-07-2012, 20:43
FYI, my local swanky bar has upped their prices for a 3oz serving to:

Lot B - $40
PVW15 - $50
PVW23 - $70 (a relative steal)

For comparison, a MM is $12.50

that is insane. as seen from my avatar, I'm a PvW fan. Been drinking the 20 yr old for about 8 years on the recommendation of my local Binny's whiskey guy. Pappy 20 used to be on the shelf, often in a red velvet bag, sometimes not. Started drinking 15 and Lot B, too, but the 20 was always my favorite. Everyone I gave it to loved it. Price was pretty stable at 90-100 for the 20; 15 was around 50-55. Seemed quite reasonable. Blue Smoke BBQ in NYC had their own vW bottling that is also quite good and a reason to go there. Met Julian at Lush one year around 2007 and had him sign several bottles.
Now, with all the newbies clamoring for vW, the prices escalating and the SW product gone/going away, I'm pulling away, too from buying more. I have several 20's stashed away and some 15's that are probably SW as well. Also the lack of transparency as to what's really in the bottle. They should tell us and if it's good, we'll drink it. And if it's not really limited, then they shouldn't release it semiannually. the ebay/craig's list sales are hilarious.

The first time I was at Blue Smoke the bartender said I had to try this stuff called Four Roses, just back in the US after a long absence. Used to be the biggest or one of the biggest brands, then it was only sold in Japan where it was extremely popular. Loved it. Figured I'd get some when I got home, but it wasn't yet available in Illinois. A few months later, it was, and I bought a few bottles. Luckily, I bought a few bottles of the 4R 120th Anniversary as it's my favorite "recipe" (OBSK).
Unfortunately, I'm kind of a collector/hoarder, so I've bought many bottles of different whiskies over the years, single malts included. I was drinking single malts including Lagavulin 16 since 1990. Even drove around to bunker the Lagavulin before they ran out for a couple of years several years ago (due to supply/demand imbalance).
If I was reasonable, I'd just stick with 4R for now. Great bourbon for the price.
Might even be changing my avatar.?.?

JPBoston
12-08-2012, 01:00
FYI, my local swanky bar has upped their prices for a 3oz serving to:

Lot B - $40
PVW15 - $50
PVW23 - $70 (a relative steal)

For comparison, a MM is $12.50

Holy f**kin sh*t!!! Swanky is right!! Just paid $7.50 for a Knob Creek pour last week, at a restaurant in Anaheim, CA.

There's a local 'swanky' cigar/whiskey bar in Phoenix that I've been wanting to try out. Yelp users say the selection and atmosphere is great, but prices are steep... which has given me pause from actually taking the time to visit (that and the fact that as a non-smoker, sitting in 2nd hand smoke while trying to enjoy the nuances of a new bourbon don't exactly peak my interest). I had no idea that $12.50 MM was even a possibility though. That's even worse than I imagined.

I had hoped I'd be able to try several of the higher-end bourbons I've yet to sample... now I'm scared to even step foot in the place, lol.

p_elliott
12-08-2012, 09:59
You go to a whisk(e)y bar you had better take some cash or a credit card with you. You'll pay on average 1/4 to 1/3 the price of a bottle for a pour.

squire
12-08-2012, 11:30
Hmm, off the Board two days and this thread grows three pages, the subject certainly draws attention.

camduncan
12-08-2012, 13:25
You go to a whisk(e)y bar you had better take some cash or a credit card with you. You'll pay on average 1/4 to 1/3 the price of a bottle for a pour.

Same rings true in Australia. It's not unsusual to pay $8-$10 for a pour (30ml here due to liquor laws) of Makers from a bottle that would cost you $35 at retail.

Rockefeller
12-10-2012, 09:28
I have 2 bottles of ORVW10/90 stored away in the closet. Anyone else hesitant to open it now that it's been discontinued?

squire
12-10-2012, 10:16
Rock I don't hesitate to open any bottle . . . when my heirs liquidate my estate there will be no dusties to be sold.

Tico
12-10-2012, 10:29
I have 2 bottles of ORVW10/90 stored away in the closet. Anyone else hesitant to open it now that it's been discontinued?
No
The 107 is better anyways

matthewdc
12-10-2012, 16:16
I have to say Pappy prices here in DC this yearwere ridiculous--serious price gouging by some retailers. One store called me saying they only got a couplebottles in and if I was interested. Isaid yes but then asked the price—the ORVW10 was $99 and the PVW15 was $250…OUCH! I thanked them for the call butsaid no thank you. I also saw the Lot B in a few stores pricedbetween $125 and $175. After a pretty extensive search I did come across a couple bottles that were very decentlypriced so was lucky this year but can’t believe people are paying these outrageousprices that some stores are asking. I hope the hype subsides some next year. Wishful thinking I guess...

Curtisc84
12-10-2012, 19:34
If I was reasonable, I'd just stick with 4R for now. Great bourbon for the price.
Might even be changing my avatar.?.? I'm a fan of the 4R as well. I'm relatively new to bourbon but yellow label is one that I keep re-buying. I've gone through a 2012 Limited Edition Single Barrel and bought another as well. I haven't opened the 2011 and 2012 Small Batches yet (only because I'm gifting them to my gf for Christmas), but I heard they are fabulous.

Back to your quote, Are you a reasonable man? =)

Cheers!

SMOWK
12-10-2012, 20:38
I have resorted to asking store purchasing managers to add "sexual favors" in the "notes" column on the "Pappy List".

Hershmeister
12-10-2012, 21:10
I'm just glad I spent a lot of time in the past few years hunting down my bottles. It's clearly much more difficult to obtain now and when you can find it much more expensive

BourbonGuy
12-21-2012, 11:06
I went to the liquor store yesterday and we got on the topic of Pappy. ““F” Pappy he said. I wish the whole F-in line would disappear. You have to call in all these favors to get a bottles and then they lie. And sure, they (not sure he meant Buffalo Trace or Julian Van Winkle) of got caught a little short. But you think when they get caught up the price will drop? Thieves, their all thieves.”

squire
12-21-2012, 12:10
In the back of my mind there was a thought that when the Stitzel-Weller well finally runs dry the price of Pappy might drop a bit but that's too much to ask for.

smokinjoe
12-21-2012, 13:02
I went to the liquor store yesterday and we got on the topic of Pappy. F Pappy he said. I wish the whole F-in line would disappear. You have to call in all these favors to get a bottles and then they lie. And sure, they (not sure he meant Buffalo Trace or Julian Van Winkle) of got caught a little short. But you think when they get caught up the price will drop? Thieves, their all thieves.

Well, somebody was missing some Christmas Cheer...:cry: That boy needs a hug!! He must have been Mayan... :D

squire
12-21-2012, 13:10
Think of the irony, he works in a liquor store and his wife won't let him drink.

BillP
12-22-2012, 17:12
Think of the irony, he works in a liquor store and his wife won't let him drink.

Now that is sad. Wonder what he asks his wife for Christmas? "Dear Santa, please bring me a ...."