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Dave_in_Canada
09-02-2003, 12:50
Check this out. This is a sherry cask, which has contained bourbon for some 6-7 weeks and which is currently being bottled. I've deleted the name of the distillery etc. to protect the innocent! Comments?

http://members.shaw.ca/littlebigbar/1Sherry.jpg

Paradox
09-02-2003, 12:55
6-7 weeks? That's like a cheap variant of a Distiller's Masterpiece finished in sherry casks. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kgiammarco
09-02-2003, 15:06
Could it be the 3rd incarnation of distillers masterpiece? cognac, port, now sherry?

-chris

Dave_in_Canada
09-02-2003, 15:14
wrong distillery http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kgiammarco
09-02-2003, 15:16
Hmm... this could be interesting... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

-chris

Paradox
09-02-2003, 15:21
Hmm... this could be interesting... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

-chris



Interesting indeed! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif Now it would just be helpful to know the distillery... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cowdery
09-02-2003, 15:44
I haven't had a lot of experience with whiskey finished in sherry casks, although Black Bush (a variant of Old Bushmills Irish Whiskey) is a personal favorite. The proof is in the tasting. My sense is that bourbon being what it is, a couple weeks in a used sherry cask won't make much difference. We'll see.

Dave_in_Canada
09-02-2003, 15:48
This is their second attempt... the first was a failure. ER, our tour guide, claimed that 6 weeks in a sherry cask is certainly long enough to destroy ANY bourbon http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Barrel_Proof
09-02-2003, 18:30
Here we go again. Bourbon should be aged in NEW charred oak barrels. In my book, if you finish it in something else, you're home brewing something other than bourbon. That Distillers' Misterpeace stuff--and any of these other silly attempts go get around the statutory definition of bourbon--should be reserved for sale solely in the duty free shops in Dubai, right next to the far higher quality perfumes available there.

Dave_in_Canada
09-02-2003, 19:27
Please note that it is Bourbon that was finished in the sherry casks, not aged in the cask, just to clarify.

CL
09-02-2003, 19:52
I think that BT is doing this. One, Omar mentioned they have experimental "bourbons". And, two, I know that Dave was going to be there in late August. ;-)

Barrel_Proof
09-02-2003, 20:03
aged v. finished is nothing but b.s.--that's a distinction without a difference. if bourbon spends ANY time in a used barrel, it spends time aging in something other than a NEW charred oak barrel. whether aged one week, two weeks, or an hour and a half, you aged it in something USED, boys and girls.

i like spirits other than bourbon, too--but just leave my bourbon unadulterated by this silliness. call this stuff flavored whiskey or something equally insipid, but it ain't bourbon. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Barrel_Proof
09-02-2003, 20:08
And while you're at it, sell it next to those cute vodkas in blue bottles or those liquours in orange ones. Hey, why not include a coupon to get your nails done or maybe a perm at the same time.

Gillman
09-03-2003, 04:41
I agree such products should be identified as what they are, i.e., American whiskey produced differently to the norm, as a specialty. Whether it can still be called "bourbon" on the label is a matter the company will work out having regard to the various laws and rules.

In the 19th century, a wide variety of flavourings were used to flavour whiskey. Most whiskey flavoured in this way was a mixture of neutral spirits and some legitimate straight whiskey. However some "luxury" blends of the time were composed of all-whiskey incorporating some flavouring. I have written before of one formula I found that was 45 % each of two bourbons, 9% rye and 1% of an extract of prunes and raisins macerated in (neutral) alcohol. I have made this kind of drink myself in small quantities and it can be very good. Peach-derived extracts were used, also ones made from currants and green tea, even carob. It sounds odd, perhaps, but in small amounts such as 1%, these added a subtle note that consumers clearly liked at the time. The sherry finishing idea is similar, it is adding another fruity top-note to the drink. I don't see anything wrong with offering such a specialty on the market provided it is clearly labelled to be what it is. In the late 1800's it was known in Scotland that sherry casks improved the taste of their whisky at any rate. I believe the practice of American blenders in the late 1800's to add fruit extracts to whiskey and neutral spirits was a way to emulate that practice.

Gary

bourbonmed
09-03-2003, 14:15
Well said Gillman. And it's still happening today: Southern Comfort. I have no use for SC, but many folks seem to like it.

Frankly, I don't have an issue with boutique/experimental finishes if it's clearly labeled -- as is the case w Distillers Masterpiece. The 18y 'cognac' experiment from Beam is wonderful. I haven't tried the 20y Port, which I hear Cliff is bringing to the fest. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Omar

Paradox
09-03-2003, 14:24
Frankly, I don't have an issue with boutique/experimental finishes if it's clearly labeled -- as is the case w Distillers Masterpiece. The 18y 'cognac' experiment from Beam is wonderful. I haven't tried the 20y Port, which I hear Cliff is bringing to the fest. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Same here Omar. I haven't tried the 20 year 'Port' Distillers Masterpiece yet either, but the 'Cognac' expression was quite nice. At over $200 yes, it is overpriced, but I give them credit for at least making it. As long as the labels are clearly marked I see nothing wrong with it either. I'm all for experimentation if it is done in a respectable way; No sugar water or flavorings added and then still attempting to call it bourbon.

Dave_in_Canada
09-03-2003, 14:34
OK OK, I'll break the suspense. Although Wild Turkey states in their advertising: “Not the latest thing – the genuine thing” the distillery where I saw this product is none other than WT. Scotland has been doing it for years (check out the entire Glenmorangie lineup). I'm not condoning it in the case of bourbon, just thought you'd all like to know about it!

Paradox
09-03-2003, 14:39
Thanks for breaking that suspense, many of us were honestly leaning towards Buffalo Trace as the distillery who was doing it. Did you find out any more info on it while there such as when they may possibly release it for sale if in fact they will, will it be here within the US, etc...?

Dave_in_Canada
09-03-2003, 14:56
No further information was forthcoming except that this 500L cask appeared to be the last one of 5 which was being emptied. No sign of special bottles, labels etc. (trust me, I was lookin'). Where it will end up is anyone's guess.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Paradox
09-03-2003, 15:06
Thanks Dave, you are still quite the sleuth nonetheless! http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-091.gif Just another bottling to have to keep an eye out for now. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

bourbonmed
09-03-2003, 15:34
An experimental bird? Interesting. Everybody's jumping on the finish bandwagon. Will Makers and Barton be tempted next?

We may have to deploy our fearless secret agent on a mission to Lawrenceburg. Brenda, prepare for another doozy http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif project!

Omar

Gillman
09-03-2003, 17:09
Thanks Omar (and call me Gary), and quite right about Southern Comfort, it is the modern version of those old 1800's blends (albeit sweeter than they were if the 1% was truly followed).

Thanks so much for the invitation to the Gazebo at 9:00 p.m. on Friday, that's great! Look forward to meeting you and the other Bourbonians. I will put my mind to a suitable "contribution". And thanks too to Bettye Jo, who "clued me in" a while back!

Gary Gillman

Barrel_Proof
09-03-2003, 18:35
The 18y 'cognac' experiment from Beam is wonderful. I haven't tried the 20y Port, which I hear Cliff is bringing to the fest. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


There are a good dozen fine congacs in this apartment, but many more fine bourbons. I don't mix 'em, flavor 'em, color 'em OR, to use the latest cute phrase, FINISH 'em.

Don't count on my bringing any frou-frou adulterated bourbon to the gazebo, boys and girls. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif But if y'all smile real big, now, I'll still bring my celebrated bottle of "Cracker Jack." That'll bring some sweetness to your life. Smile even bigger and I'll bring some crunchy Cracker Jack for snacks, too!

The cognac is staying home, however. When you come visit here in the Big Apple we'll sample some Hine Vintage 1953 (my birthday cognac) and the amazing A.E. Dor No. 8, and maybe a few other elixirs that started life as grapes.

brendaj
09-03-2003, 20:14
Omar,


We may have to deploy our fearless secret agent on a mission to Lawrenceburg. Brenda, prepare for another doozy project!



And to think, I just deleted some spam offering a color video camera the size of a quarter, hooked to a 9 volt battery... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Guess I better plan on going down and getting a room for the night, as it will probably take some time to infiltrate their command center... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Now where did I put my nose-and-glasses...
Bj

Barrel_Proof
09-03-2003, 20:21
Brenda: I'm relieved to learn that I'm not the only one getting spy cam spam. Maybe they are targeting this board!

tdelling
09-04-2003, 08:05
>...the distillery where I saw this product is none other than WT.

That's quite a surprise. I'm certainly glad they're experimenting...
I definitely think that there is a huge amount of room for experimentation
and innovation in the world of bourbon (an american whiskies in general).

Sherried WT, though? WT has such a HUGE, ROBUST taste... part of me doubts
that a sherry cask could even start to make a dent in it! If I were to
pick a bourbon to attempt to sherry-finish, I'd probably pick a
wheater...

Tim Dellinger

bourbonmed
09-04-2003, 11:14
Dave, Tim, all:

I asked WT Master Distiller Eddie Russell about the sherry casks today.

He admits they're trying out 'a few' barrels, letting different age WT bourbons sit 6 - 8 wks. No plans to bottle any of it at this time -- just playing with it, seeing if it has 'potential'.

Don't know about you, but I'd love to taste this stuff. Wonder what they'll do with this whiskey after the experiment! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif

My guess (based on Beam's DM history) is the older barrels (12y up) would make the best candidates for future releases. Think about it, suppose you have some 12y or older barrels w whiskey that became too woody, etc. They have nothing to lose, maybe a profitable boutique expression to gain.

We can ask Jimmy Russell soon, he'll be attending the fest.

Sherry aside, WT is working on this year's batch of Russell's Reserve. Still very limited, just 1500 cases.

Cheers,
Omar

Gillman
09-04-2003, 16:12
Wow, sounds good, being a frequent visitor to New York. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What does the 1953 Hine taste like?

BTW, your vernacular sounds more deep south than Manhattan. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

tdelling
09-05-2003, 10:42
>Think about it, suppose you have some 12y or older barrels w whiskey that
>became too woody, etc. They have nothing to lose, maybe a profitable boutique
>expression to gain.

I hadn't thought of that, but you're exactly right. Whenever I look at my
bottle of Elijah Craig 18YO, I think to myself "well, it's got some nice
things about it, but it just dies on the tongue. Maybe I could perk it
up by home-vatting it with something else...". I like the idea of trying
sherry casks to add an extra something to those casks.

Tim Dellinger

bourbonmed
04-28-2004, 13:08
Dave, Cliff, all:

If you wondered what became of those sherry casks in Lawrenceburg last September, look in your duty free shops in about one month. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Wild Turkey's Sherry Signature will be available as a travel retail exclusive. It's 10 yrs old like Russell's Reserve, but finished in Spanish Oloroso sherry casks and bottled at 86 proof.

Best of all, it's $35.

Cheers,

Omar

Gillman
04-28-2004, 14:17
Oh boy, that sounds like a good one. If they don't overdo the sherry the result should be very, very good. Wonder why they didn't present this iteration of RR at the recent Sampler? At said event I was reminded how good Russell's Reserve is. Adding a hint of Spanish wood-matured sherry is likely only to raise the ante..

Gary

gr8erdane
04-28-2004, 15:17
Gary, don't you think that WT might not want to whet our appetites for this and then hold it out of our reach by making it export only? Same reason we didn't get to taste Freedom I'm sure.

Gillman
04-28-2004, 15:26
Dane, thanks, you're right, I had missed the reference to "travel" in Omar's post. What a pity, and by the way, how can it be worth their while to sell this only in export markets? Sad.

Gary

gr8erdane
04-28-2004, 15:33
Perhaps they figure that most people who can afford to travel are the target group to buy the product. While we at SB.com are the more enthusiastic about trying the product, our numbers may not be enough to support a new product launch. Time for us to unite and lobby the distilleries for a special "SB.com" release of new products. Can you think of a better bunch of guinea pigs to test a new product on?

Gillman
04-28-2004, 15:38
No, I can't, and there's an old saw, you go home with the one that brought you. I am not complaining because WT offers many fine products to its home, U.S. domestic that is, market.

But if you are going to launch a newbie as interesting as this one why forsake the one you first asked out..?

Gary

Paradox
04-28-2004, 19:11
Another Duty Free thing from WT, Thanks alot Pernod Ricard. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/hot.gif