PDA

View Full Version : OGD proof change?



Josh
03-07-2013, 10:37
I was persuing the Michigan liquor list today and I noticed something odd. The standard Old Grand Dad was listed as 80 proof, not 86. This could be a mistake, but given the recent MM business, I don't know. Anybody heard anything about this or noticed 80 proof OGD in the wild?

Brisko
03-07-2013, 10:46
I'm working from memory, but I thought they had both an 80 and 86 proof version in addition to the BiB and 114.

Josh
03-07-2013, 10:54
I've never seen an 80 proof one. The 80, BiB and 114 are the only grand dads in the current MI price book.

Brisko
03-07-2013, 11:29
I was probably thinking of Basil Hayden's.

BradleyC
03-07-2013, 11:43
I was told by a friend that the 86 was discontinued and replaced with the 80. His wife drinks the 86 exclusively and he has been running around town stocking up on the handles. He is the liquor manager for a large store so I would guess he did his homework and is accurate with his statement. I have seen both bottles recently in helping him find more. I find it interesting that the font they used for the proof makes the 80 look like 86 from a distance. A very sly maneuver. Squire, didn't they consult you before doing this?

Tucker
03-07-2013, 12:08
Binnys and SV both list it at 80 proof.

soad
03-07-2013, 12:08
Better to drop the 86 than the BIB or the 114....but damn, I hate this trend.

squire
03-07-2013, 12:32
Bradley, sometimes the voice of reason is drowned in a sea of avarice.

White Dog
03-07-2013, 13:05
This ain't a shortage, this is just greed on the part of Beam.:hot: Shame.

Josh
03-07-2013, 13:42
Better to drop the 86 than the BIB or the 114....but damn, I hate this trend.




I agree. Or raise prices. Would anybody here stop buying OGD 114 if it cost $5-$10 more? I doubt very many would. I wouldn't. It's worth at least that, and I would rather pay more than lose that and the BiB.

squire
03-07-2013, 13:51
Lets not give them any ideas Josh.

Brisko
03-07-2013, 14:24
This ain't a shortage, this is just greed on the part of Beam.:hot: Shame.

Is it, though? I'm seeing OGD 114 in stores where it's never been before. I wonder if they're focusing more attention on that label, and seeing increased sales. The BiB is, I believe, the best-selling BiB around, so I hope that sticks around because I'm fond of it, too.

smokinjoe
03-07-2013, 14:35
I agree. Or raise prices. Would anybody here stop buying OGD 114 if it cost $5-$10 more? I doubt very many would. I wouldn't. It's worth at least that, and I would rather pay more than lose that and the BiB.

I believe Beam loves us...I believe Beam loves us...I believe Beam loves us...I believe Beam loves us...I believe beam loves us...I believe Beam loves us...I believe...I believe...I believe...I believe...I believe...I believe...I believe...I believe...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I just ordered a case of 114 from my whiskey monger...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...I now make better sleepy-by tonight...

Josh
03-07-2013, 14:38
Is it, though? I'm seeing OGD 114 in stores where it's never been before. I wonder if they're focusing more attention on that label, and seeing increased sales. The BiB is, I believe, the best-selling BiB around, so I hope that sticks around because I'm fond of it, too.

Basil Hayden is selling very well, although I can't figure out why. There may be pressure on OGD from that direction. But with the recent dropping of the age statement from BH, now there really is no difference between OGD and BH on paper. The big money grab is Basil Hayden.

squire
03-07-2013, 14:49
Perhaps Beam is planning to launch an Old Grand Dad Family in the way they are developing Knob Creek. A rye with the ND yeast would be nice.

ethangsmith
03-07-2013, 15:00
Dang, and this was my favorite 86 proof whiskey. I'm more upset about this than that Maker's Mark crap.

OscarV
03-07-2013, 15:07
I've never seen an 80 proof one. The 80, BiB and 114 are the only grand dads in the current MI price book.


Are you sure?
It seems to me it's always been 80, 100 & 114 proof.

MyOldKyDram
03-07-2013, 15:08
It's today's bunkerable bourbon!

jburlowski
03-07-2013, 15:09
Basil Hayden is selling very well, although I can't figure out why. There may be pressure on OGD from that direction. But with the recent dropping of the age statement from BH, now there really is no difference between OGD and BH on paper. The big money grab is Basil Hayden.

During the recent MM kerfluffle, the Washington Post mentioned that BH sales increased 35% in 2012. Sure that's from a relatively small base but a huge jump even considering bourbon sales overall increased 15%.

That kind of increase and the dropping of the BH AS may indicate a shortage of OGD distillate.

Josh
03-07-2013, 15:43
I whined on Twitter and got an offer from @jimbeamofficial to chat about OGD. I will report back.

MyOldKyDram
03-07-2013, 15:53
Go get em, Scoop!

cowdery
03-07-2013, 16:11
I've asked for information through my contacts too. It's definitely a change, I just don't know when it occurred. Anybody have an 80 proof bottle?

The why is pretty simple. Beam perceives OGD as a mature brand that isn't attracting new drinkers, so they mostly care about keeping current drinkers. They figure they'll lose more of them with a price hike than with a proof cut, so proof cut it is.

Or maybe they just needed something to do with all the extra water they aren't using at Maker's Mark.

Anyway, check this out.

callmeox
03-07-2013, 16:48
Ooopsie. A little disconnect between the right and left side of the page.


40%, 50%, 57% ----- becomes -------- 86 proof, 100 proof, 114 proof??

Lazer
03-07-2013, 19:32
Ooopsie. A little disconnect between the right and left side of the page.


40%, 50%, 57% ----- becomes -------- 86 proof, 100 proof, 114 proof??
The guy that manages the facebook page must be an actual old grand dad.

Lazer
03-07-2013, 19:34
By the way, STOP with the OGD threads, just STOP!:hot: You're like my kids, stop messing around, you're going to ruin it.

SFS
03-07-2013, 19:34
He must be 114 years old.

Josh
03-07-2013, 20:21
So, any suggestions as to what I should ask when I'm on the line?

cowdery
03-07-2013, 22:04
Sure, when and why? And "what, if anything, still makes Old Grand-Dad premium?"

JPBoston
03-08-2013, 00:21
Depressing news.

Whatever, Beam. You win... I don't care anymore.

CoMobourbon
03-08-2013, 02:07
Better to drop the 86 than the BIB or the 114....but damn, I hate this trend.

+1.

I consider downgrading the OGD 86 least of many possible evils. But that's probably because I only get the BIB or the 114.

unclebunk
03-08-2013, 05:44
By the way, STOP with the OGD threads, just STOP!:hot: You're like my kids, stop messing around, you're going to ruin it.

I kinda had the same thought. The next guy to mention OGD 114 gets a free groin kick!:lol:

p_elliott
03-08-2013, 09:42
Why don't these distilleries just go out and shoot theme selves in the foot. 20 years ago they were going broke and didn't know what to do now they are making money hand over fist and are breaking their necks to find out how to go broke.

MauiSon
03-08-2013, 10:27
I guess I'll lay in another bottle or two of the ole agent 86.

squire
03-08-2013, 10:37
I'd stock up on the 114 if I were in stocking mode.

Brisko
03-08-2013, 12:18
On the one hand, this is bad for those of us who don't like watered down whiskey. On the other hand, it doesn't affect me directly because I never bought OGD 86. Same with the age statement on BH. If that's what it takes to keep cranking out OGD 114 and BiB, I'm okay with that.

But there is a devil/angel on my shoulder telling me to stock up on the 114.

squire
03-08-2013, 12:22
I vote for Angel.

cowdery
03-08-2013, 14:52
Here's an official answer from Beam:

"This was an adjustment that happened mid-year 2012 to address certain factors particular to the Old Grand Dad brand, including maintaining a competitive retail price amidst higher input costs, while continuing to meet surging demand among bartenders and consumers in Old Grand Dad Bonded – which is 100 proof and one of very few bonded products out there. It should also be noted that Old Grand Dad’s signature high-rye mash bill – which has certainly set the brand apart from most other Kentucky Straight Bourbons in the last few decades – has not changed (and will not change)."

Although they don't say so, I think we can safely extrapolate that keeping the more profitable BH and 114 supplied played into it as well. Because OGD and BH are the only products that use that juice, they have to make adjustments within the family. Dropping the 86 to 80 was probably the least painful option and although none of us like the symbolism of it, none of us--even OGD fans--drink the 86.

jburlowski
03-08-2013, 15:24
The 80 has appeared on local shelves... apparently in replacement for the 86.

squire
03-08-2013, 15:35
Did they keep the same price?

jburlowski
03-08-2013, 15:58
Did they keep the same price?

I didn't specifically focus on that but my impression is yes.

TheNovaMan
03-08-2013, 18:28
I went to my favorite store today, and the "regular" OGD handle they had was 86 proof, but the 750s were 80 proof.

squire
03-08-2013, 19:01
So I'm taking a wild guess here by saying you bought the 86.

TheNovaMan
03-08-2013, 20:04
Actually, I didn't; I've never had OGD 86, and I don't want to get hooked on something I can't get anymore. BUT, if there's another member who has need of it (I think I remember someone's wife likes it quite a bit), I'd be more than willing to help out.

squire
03-09-2013, 07:50
I'd pick it up anyway if the price is good. I haven't had any particular reason to buy the 86 but since it's going out the door . . .

Lazer
03-09-2013, 19:29
I'd stock up on the 114 if I were in stocking mode.


But there is a devil/angel on my shoulder telling me to stock up on the 114.
This is what I'm talking about guys. Just keep it to yourself. :hot:

Restaurant man
03-09-2013, 20:55
I know I speak for everyone when I say that basil Hayden is the only bunker able bourbon on the shelves today :cool::grin::slappin::skep::lol:

White Dog
03-09-2013, 22:04
I know I speak for everyone when I say that basil Hayden is the only bunker able bourbon on the shelves today :cool::grin::slappin::skep::lol:

I concur! And let me add any Turkey bottled at 81pr, Old Crow Reserve, and anything Michter's, since they're the first American maker of anything.

Josh
03-10-2013, 18:57
Whoever it is didn't call me yesterday like she or he said, but I do currently have a voicemail on my phone from someone with a 312 area code that was left at dinner time. Think I'm gonna let it sit there for a while.

zillah
03-11-2013, 12:57
Next time I see a friend buy BH I am going to laugh now. Both NAS, 80 proof and same juice? Beam is passing a fast one on the uninformed. This has left me concered for my beloved BIB. I am gonna have to stock up me thinks.

cowdery
03-11-2013, 13:01
The statement says what the statement says, but I think the biggest reason was price and profitability. Beam, and perhaps others, seem to have come to the conclusion that for any bourbon in the popular price segment or below, having a proof above 80 is just leaving money on the table.

squire
03-11-2013, 14:00
Beam could well be correct in their market assessment. 80 proof is the camel's nose and the rest will follow.

Josh
03-11-2013, 16:41
Just got off the phone with a Mr. Name Withheld from Beam in Chicago and he answered all my questions and listened to me bitch, so kudos to him. In sum, what he said confirms what Chuck was told. He said the following:

1) The change was decided upon about a year ago and took effect about 6 mos. ago.
2) The goal was to shore up supplies of the BiB, 114 and presumably Basil Hayden, although he didn't mention BH specifically.
3) Commodity prices in KY were partly to blame for the short supplies of OGD.
4) The choices were between decreasing supply, raising prices or lowering proof. They chose the last option as the least of all evils.
5) The Bottled-in-Bond and the 114 are not going away. He said this at least three times.
6) Beam is committed to upholding the long tradition of the Old Granddad brand. Mashbill and everything else about the process is staying the same.

I told him that I and other enthusiasts are most concerned about the possibility of the Bond and 114 going away. He assured me, again, that they are not. He also said that if I had any other questions I should call him. He will probably regret saying that!

squire
03-11-2013, 19:52
Good for him, hope he's well informed.

qman22
03-11-2013, 20:35
That's great news Josh, thanks for the update. I hope whomever you talked to was being sincere

mosugoji64
03-11-2013, 20:41
Thanks for taking the call and posting notes, Josh. The info is reassuring. For now, at least. I'm normally a little cynical and think that business decisions are only valid for a day, but knowing that distilleries have to plan long term we may be safe for a while. We can take some comfort in knowing that they're not dependent on the OGD recipe to fill other bottles.

Josh
03-12-2013, 15:50
Good for him, hope he's well informed.


That's great news Josh, thanks for the update. I hope whomever you talked to was being sincere


Thanks for taking the call and posting notes, Josh. The info is reassuring. For now, at least. I'm normally a little cynical and think that business decisions are only valid for a day, but knowing that distilleries have to plan long term we may be safe for a while. We can take some comfort in knowing that they're not dependent on the OGD recipe to fill other bottles.

Thanks. I'm sure he was being sincere and he was relaying the information he was given. But like Brian said, how long those decisions are valid for is unknown. I remember when the age statement was dropped from OWA, supposedly because it wouldn't fit on the new label. We were told not to panic unless WSR lost its age statement. Then WSR lost its age statement too. I hope it's not like that all over again. I also hope that he passes what I said to him along to whomever he answers to in Deerfield.

MyOldKyDram
03-12-2013, 15:57
Think I'll be buying the occasional 114 here and there just in case. Even if nothing happens hey, got a bunch of good whiskey cheaper today than it will be tomorrow.

smknjoe
03-12-2013, 16:28
Think I'll be buying the occasional 114 here and there just in case. Even if nothing happens hey, got a bunch of good whiskey cheaper today than it will be tomorrow.

That's what I do.

Is 114 barrel proof? I know it used to be, but the barrel proof statement is not on the label anymore.

Josh
03-12-2013, 16:34
Is 114 barrel proof? I know it used to be, but the barrel proof statement is not on the label anymore.

I think you answered your own question.

smknjoe
03-12-2013, 16:37
......fair enough!

squire
03-12-2013, 17:25
Well, at least they keep it at 114, that's something.

Halifax
03-12-2013, 17:30
According to their website the 114 is Barrel Strength.

http://www.beamglobal.com/brands/old-grand-dad

squire
03-12-2013, 19:00
114 proof can be called barrel strength as a descriptive term without actually specifying the Old Grand brand comes out of the barrel at 114. It couldn't, really because barrels don't come out at exact proofs, that and Beam typically puts it's whisky in the barrel at 125 proof.

cowdery
03-12-2013, 19:37
I don't think the Old Grand-Dad brand is in any jeapordy but if they did discontinue something, it would probably be the 80 proof no one here likes anyway. I was in Binny's yesterday and they had the 86 still on the shelf. I almost bought it until I realized I'd still rather have the bond. So I bought a bottle of Larceny.

Of course their current plan could change. That's always true in pretty much all things and is certainly not unique to big whiskey producers.

So stocking up in fear of the brand or any of its expressions going away doesn't make much sense, but stocking up to take the sting out of inevitable future price cuts probably does.

Josh
03-13-2013, 03:47
According to their website the 114 is Barrel Strength.

http://www.beamglobal.com/brands/old-grand-dad

That's interesting but the label is more regulated, so I would trust what it says or doesn't say over whatever might be on a website.

ratcheer
03-13-2013, 05:14
As the 86 proof OGD has been my go-to everyday pour for the past few years, I guess I need to stock up while it is still on the shelves (if there is still any left). Then, I guess I will need to find a new everyday pour. :skep:

Tim

squire
03-13-2013, 05:28
To say that a whisky over 105 proof is barrel strength is historically accurate because distillers in the past used lower distilling and barrel entry proofs. However that term can be a category rather than a specific reference. Beam now uses 125 as the Barrel entry proof (I would really like to be wrong about Grand Dad being lower but don't think I am) and since whisky aging in the warm climate of Kentucky typically gains in strength the dumping proof is going to be more than 125, not less.

Halifax
03-13-2013, 06:49
My dusty ND OGD 114 bottles read "114 Barrel Proof" on the neck label. Interesting that Beam would promote barrel proof on their website, but choose to not include it on the label. Somewhat of an inconsistent message there. Personally, whether it is barrel proof or not doesn't really matter much to me. I enjoy it just fine the way it is.

Come to think of it... Given all that is going on with premium bourbons these days, perhaps we're fortunate that Beam is NOT putting forth the effort to promote this as a premium barrel proof product. My guess is that a return of the barrel proof label would result in a significant price increase. I've never had the feeling that Beam really cared much about the OGD brand to begin with. Do they even promote the brand anymore? Heck... They won't even spen a few dollars to give OGD its own website.

squire
03-13-2013, 08:50
I believe it's a mature brand with a following so Beam doesn't have to do much more than keep cranking it out.

cowdery
03-13-2013, 11:26
I agree that Beam has used the term 'barrel proof' in reference to OGD114. The line extension was actually created by National and it used the term too. It is, however, highly unlikely that the product was ever actually barrel proof. For one thing, true barrel proof is always variable and either has to be expressed as a range, as Booker's does, or handwritten as Heaven Hill intends to do with the special edition of Elijah Craig 12. Although 'barrel proof' isn't a term the TTB specifically regulates, they might be subject to a challenge if it appeared on the label and isn't true. It's well established that you can get away with more in non-label media.

Kalessin
03-13-2013, 11:33
Hm. Not all stores in MA carry OGD products (Jim Beam and Makers Mark are the Kentucky bourbons that seem to be universally stocked). Many stores that do have OGD only have the 86 proof (and soon the 80 instead), but don't carry the BiB. Even fewer carry the 114.

squire
03-13-2013, 11:36
That's odd when you think about it because JB, MM and OGD are all handled by the local Beam distributors.

Just as well I guess, I'd hate to think what would happen if the Yankees really discovered OGD and Barton.

jeffrey r
03-13-2013, 18:24
Just as well I guess, I'd hate to think what would happen if the Yankees really discovered OGD and Barton.

I suppose something like this? ;)

14944

MauiSon
03-14-2013, 14:00
In my area, I've only seen the 86proof. I guess I better crack a bottle and see if I like it more than the cheaper EWB (<$10) or the comparable WT101 ($15 vs. $17). I'm doubtful.

squire
03-14-2013, 14:05
Don't be giving me nightmares Jeffery.

ChuckBiscuits
05-13-2013, 19:04
Hi,
Noob here. My Dad just brought me a couple of handles of OGD from Phoenix to save me a few bucks, and I noticed that Beam Global had indeed lowered the proof. For what it's worth, I sent them this letter:

I just noticed that Beam Global has reduced the proof of Old Grand-Dad from 86 to 80. I had heard rumors on the forums of this decision, but I could not believe you would be so short-sighted as to de-content such a storied brand. I would like to complain in no uncertain terms about this. I have recently become an avid bourbon drinker, and after trying many, many offerings, OGD has become my hands-down favorite, even among higher-priced whiskeys. I believe that altering this fine product in any way is a disservice to loyal drinkers everywhere. It might add a dime or two to your bottom line, but in the long run, the brand equity of OGD suffers. I realize that I am in the minority here. Most folks would either a) not notice, b) not take the time to write in or c) not give a damn. I am none of those folks. PLEASE reconsider this decision to "water down" my favorite bourbon and restore Old Grand-Dad to its former glory. It's not just a product or a shelf facing or a number in a spreadsheet cell to us consumers. Fans. Drinkers. Loyal customers.


CB

P.S. I am drinking my last pour of OGD 86 with dinner.

BigBoldBully
05-13-2013, 19:19
ChuckBiscuits, have you had the 100 and 114 proof OGD? Personally, I am grateful they messed with the 86 rather than the others (and have heard they claim to have diluted it in part to preserve the BIB and 114).

ChuckBiscuits
05-13-2013, 20:32
No, I have not. They are on my short list, for sure. I have found, much to the relief of my wallet, that I actually prefer middle-of-the-road bourbons to the high dollar ones, OGD being the proof in the pudding. I recently tried Four Roses single barrel and Eagle Rare 10-year, and I prefer Old Grand-Dad or Dickel #12 to both. Not that I won't keep trying every kind of bourbon I can get my hands on...

squire
05-13-2013, 20:46
CB I've tried every kind of Bourbon they make and I prefer Old Grand Dad, Barton and Dickel 12.

Josh
05-14-2013, 07:34
Hi,
Noob here. My Dad just brought me a couple of handles of OGD from Phoenix to save me a few bucks, and I noticed that Beam Global had indeed lowered the proof. For what it's worth, I sent them this letter:


Yep. They hit the shelf here a few months ago. Took a picture with my phone but I've been too lazy to upload it.

Rutherford
05-14-2013, 09:00
I don't think this is worth fussing over, as one of their stated reasons for doing this is to avoid shortage of BiB (which is a superior product in the first place)

squire
05-14-2013, 09:46
Save the BIB! Save the BIB! Let me hear 'ya guys, Save the BIB!

TheNovaMan
05-14-2013, 10:46
I agree with Squire: lowering the proof of the regular OGD to ensure the supply of BIB and 114 is the least of all possible evils.
What would be really nice is if they would bring the proof back up to 86 when the supply problems go away, but I kinda don't see that happening.

black mamba
05-14-2013, 11:54
I found a local, very deep source for OGD114 @ $17.99 a fifth . . . . don't think I'll be drinkin' much of the 80 or 86 pf now.

MauiSon
05-14-2013, 13:07
Squire - "Save the BIB! Save the BIB! Let me hear 'ya guys, Save the BIB!"

Yeah, I'll be cheerin' that when we get the BIB or 114 here. In the meanwhile, we have fading stocks of 86 being replaced with 80. I won't buy the 3yo OO and I won't buy the OGD80 - gotta put the line somewhere (I am buying Old Crow Reserve @ $11/handle for export, tho).

ChuckBiscuits
05-17-2013, 20:33
I found a local, very deep source for OGD114 @ $17.99 a fifth . . . . don't think I'll be drinkin' much of the 80 or 86 pf now.

Now THAT'S a source!

squire
05-17-2013, 20:37
That's the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

ChuckBiscuits
05-17-2013, 22:35
I don't think the Old Grand-Dad brand is in any jeapordy but if they did discontinue something, it would probably be the 80 proof no one here likes anyway.

Believe me, I realize how much I DON'T know about whiskey, but I know what I like. OGD provided great whiskey at a low price point--perfect for a new guy learning about what makes a great pour. Now they provide decent whiskey at best. Same price, lesser value. Maybe OK for those who can buy off the top shelf, but for those of us who still need to shop for a bargain, OGD filled a niche. I mean NO disrespect with these opinions, as I have worlds to learn about bourbon and my palate. I DO appreciate the folks who are willing to share their years of experience with those of us who are still learning. Keep that in mind.

CB

CADMixes
05-18-2013, 08:08
As long as they don't touch the bonded, I'm ok.