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tanstaafl2
03-16-2013, 09:57
Thought this article about "cocktail snobbery" (http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/food/take_this_drink_shove_it_9pVROHM7NNiOybQPrKiBiP) I came across on another board might be of interest to fans of the new-ish cocktail culture. It has spawned a lively debate on the other board but there are probably more professional bartenders there than here.

smknjoe
03-16-2013, 11:06
Just more of the hipster douchebaggery that prevails everywhere and everyone is a pseudo intellectual.

Trey Manthey
03-16-2013, 12:47
I'm definitely a fan and proponent of the resurgence of cocktail culture. Just as I won't go into my local Irish pub this afternoon and order anything more complicated than a Guinness and a shot of Jameson, nor would I expect a fancy cocktail bar to have a Coors light in their well. The article makes out the consumers to be persecuted victims of culture that's too hip to accommodate the working class drinking folk. To me it just comes off as sour grapes. "When in Rome..."

In a restaurant, the owner and the chef have the right and obligation to come up with a menu that fits their vision. If a gourmet menu is specifically planned, then they have no obligation to accommodate someone that orders a hot dog or PB&J off menu. Likewise, if a specialty bar advertises their specialty as pre-prohibition cocktails with handmade infusions, then I can't say I sympathize with someone that orders a Jack and Coke. However, if the bartender steers them gracefully towards a cocktail or other offering that is similar, they have done their job.

smknjoe
03-16-2013, 13:20
I'm definitely a fan and proponent of the resurgence of cocktail culture. Just as I won't go into my local Irish pub this afternoon and order anything more complicated than a Guinness and a shot of Jameson, nor would I expect a fancy cocktail bar to have a Coors light in their well. The article makes out the consumers to be persecuted victims of culture that's too hip to accommodate the working class drinking folk. To me it just comes off as sour grapes. "When in Rome..."

In a restaurant, the owner and the chef have the right and obligation to come up with a menu that fits their vision. If a gourmet menu is specifically planned, then they have no obligation to accommodate someone that orders a hot dog or PB&J off menu. Likewise, if a specialty bar advertises their specialty as pre-prohibition cocktails with handmade infusions, then I can't say I sympathize with someone that orders a Jack and Coke. However, if the bartender steers them gracefully towards a cocktail or other offering that is similar, they have done their job.

I think you're missing the point though. The article wasn't saying that the cocktails or bar themes were arrogant and condescending, but the people serving the clients were. I don't care how unsophisticated you think bud light or vodka is...you don't tell the customer that orders it that only idiots drink that stuff. That was the point of the article.

I also don't agree that a person needs to do their homework on a bar or restaraunt's offerings before they go there. How many times have you decided to go somewhere while just passing by?

Trey Manthey
03-16-2013, 14:18
You're right, I kind of got sidetracked, but the last sentence of my post captured my point.

You certainly don't need to do any homework on a bar or restaurant. However, if you are going to go into an establishment without knowing what to expect, you should be able to adapt to the "culture" and not impose anything on the servers or chefs that is far out of scope of what they normally provide.

The service providers shouldn't be rude nor should the customers be rude.

Wryguy
03-16-2013, 14:43
The service providers shouldn't be rude nor should the customers be rude.

That is really the vital point. Everyone in the bar is there to either facilitate or have a good time. Any happy, successful patron or proprietor knows this.

Cigar Dan
03-16-2013, 15:15
It is hard to describe a bartender refusing to pour a Bombay and tonic--with a bottle of Bombay in plain view--as anything but rude. Same applies for anything the bar stocks. If they don't want to serve it, don't stock it.

LostBottle
03-16-2013, 17:26
There is no excuse for this kind of attitude, even if you are a hipster bartender with a false sense of worth.

TheNovaMan
03-16-2013, 21:22
The rum and Coke is “a hideous waste of rum,” says Phil Ward. “All you taste is the Coke.” Um, no. Every time I've ever made myself a rum and Coke (which is many), I've been able to taste the rum. If you can't even make a rum and Coke in which you can taste both the rum and the Coke, you have no business making more complicated hipster mixologist cocktails.

Josh
03-17-2013, 10:36
This reminds me of a bar I used to be a regular at. It had an awesome selection of Michigan microbrews on tap. But every day I was in there, at a particular time the same guy would go in and order a bottle of Bud or two and just sit there, reading his newspaper and drinking his Bud. I always wondered why someone would go to a place like that and order Bud. The wait staff, one of whom also worked at a microbrewery, would always give him what he asked for and didn't treat him any differently than any other regular.

On the other hand, just for kicks, I once ordered an old fashioned there. The bartender made it without complaining but was terrible. I think they used 7 UP and garnished it with a cherry and a lime wedge. I didn't complain, but I didn't order a cocktail from there ever again.

As a customer, one gets the best results if one plays to the bar's strengths but as others have said even more important for everybody to treat everybody else with respect no matter what the situation.

Barclay Beach
03-19-2013, 19:19
Funny article/finger wag/smear piece. Judging your customers is definitley contrary to good business principals. Perhaps, though, Prime Meats has a "reputation" to maintain.


In the big picture, this probably says less about an emerging cocktail culture, and more about a persistent jerk culture. Ironically, there are plenty of places in the PHL/S.NJ region where you'd get a lot worse than snootiness for ordering a "proper" cocktail.

Kalessin
03-21-2013, 12:39
Bartender snobbery at a cocktail bar is a reason to keep a penny or two in your pocket. For their tip.

squire
03-21-2013, 12:49
Ask it be served in a Styrofoam container to keep it cold.

TheNovaMan
03-21-2013, 20:59
LOL, the last two posts are awesome!