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sailor22
03-18-2013, 19:38
If you could pick a single honey barrel from any manufacturer currently producing and have it bottled at any proof or age you wanted what would it be? Your picking a great example of a favorite profile behind a current label.

Something like - Weller 12 at cask strength, OGD BiB at 9 years, ETL at 107.... what are your thoughts?

michaelturtle1
03-18-2013, 19:48
12 yr old Barton Rye at barrel strength. If the current recipe is anything like what was bottles as HW 16 it will be delicious.

BradleyC
03-18-2013, 19:50
10 year or older Thomas Handy. It's been done before and I hope it's done again. Soon.

WAINWRIGHT
03-18-2013, 19:58
THH @ 12yrs,Saz 18 @ cask strength and ETL15 again just to name a few.

Wryguy
03-18-2013, 20:00
Rittenhouse Rye, 18 years, barrel strength. Great idea for a thread, wish fantasies like this could become reality.

michaelturtle1
03-18-2013, 20:04
Great idea for a thread, wish fantasies like this could become reality.

Maybe the right person will read this thread and give the enthusiasts a bone?Maybe? Please!

BradleyC
03-18-2013, 20:09
Probably shouldn't forget Van Winkle 20 at 107pf, 114pf, or cask strength.

PVW 23 at 107 or 114 again would be nice.

squire
03-18-2013, 21:23
Barton Rye, fully aged, barrel proof.

qman22
03-18-2013, 21:44
Would love to see some extra aged OGD 114 10-12 yr, extra aged Blanton's 12 years or so at barrel proof, an older cask strength wheated bourbon from somebody in the 14-16 year range, VOB BiB at 10-12 years, and a 10-12 year BiB version of Makers Mark just because I'm curious

ErichPryde
03-18-2013, 22:02
Buffalo Trace mashbill #2 (high rye) 15 years, 7 months, barrel proof (137.8)

callmeox
03-18-2013, 22:11
Since we're wishing out loud, how about a barrel proof/unfiltered WT at 15 years old?

fishnbowljoe
03-18-2013, 22:17
Yeah, I agree. Nice idea for a thread Steve.

Funny, your first example is something close to what I would pick. With me and my love of wheaters, a 12-15 year old Weller at 100 proof would probably be my first choice. A close second would be an ER17 at 101 proof. See where I'm going with this? New and improved versions of Weller Centennial and ER 101.

ErichPryde
03-18-2013, 22:21
Since we're wishing out loud, how about a barrel proof/unfiltered WT at 15 years old?

This was my second choice.... but I've tasted something close (and DAMN was it good). so... anyone tried BT mash 2 at cs at 15 yo?

kickert
03-18-2013, 22:37
Any high quality, hand-picked, cask strength, unfiltered, 12-18yo barrel from Buffalo Trace would make me happy.

I have learned there are honey barrels from all distilleries, all mashbills and all ages, but the above criteria would be where I would start. Thankfully there are already quite a few whiskeys that already meet most of the requirements.

Yeti
03-18-2013, 23:51
Buffalo Trace mash bill #1 - aged 15 years - 6 month sherry hogshead finish - bottled at natural cask strength (around 70%)

Also known as sherry-finished GTS, I guess.

squire
03-19-2013, 03:36
Hmmm, 15 responses and 14 of them request cask strength. Definite trend here.

VAGentleman
03-19-2013, 05:23
This was my second choice.... but I've tasted something close (and DAMN was it good). so... anyone tried BT mash 2 at cs at 15 yo?

I've had the Abraham Bowman 17 and 18 year old cask strength, which is the BT mash #2. Great stuff

Parkersback
03-19-2013, 05:48
Maker's Mark at 12 yrs and a 100 proof.
OGD BIB, but not sure how old, maybe 7-9 (that seems to maybe be what the age might have been during the glut, but that's a guess)

Irish: Black Bush at 100 proof at 18 yrs.

Scotch: Macallan at 100 proof and 25 yrs

HighInTheMtns
03-19-2013, 07:58
I've had the Abraham Bowman 17 and 18 year old cask strength, which is the BT mash #2. Great stuff
Are you sure these are mash #2? I have heard otherwise but not from an authoritative source.

Dolph Lundgren
03-19-2013, 08:02
Elijah Craig 20 year (or maybe 21) - single barrel, barrel strength.

Buffalo Trace Wheater (15+ year) - single barrel, barrel strength.

2nd the Barton Rye.

VAGentleman
03-19-2013, 08:11
Are you sure these are mash #2? I have heard otherwise but not from an authoritative source.

Just going by the Whiskey Tree doc from this site, although it does have a question mark by it.

To the question at hand, I'd love to see about a 12 year old JDSB at barrel proof just to see what one would taste like

clingman71
03-19-2013, 08:17
Yeah, I agree. Nice idea for a thread Steve.

Funny, your first example is something close to what I would pick. With me and my love of wheaters, a 12-15 year old Weller at 100 proof would probably be my first choice. A close second would be an ER17 at 101 proof. See where I'm going with this? New and improved versions of Weller Centennial and ER 101.

I hear you with the Weller, WT101@12y/o also comes to mind. OGD114@10y/o. I would love an early Bernheim wheater, 20y/o barrel proof.

Brisko
03-19-2013, 08:18
Since we're wishing out loud, how about a barrel proof/unfiltered WT at 15 years old?

Came in here to say mostly this, I'd settle for 12 years old, though.

unclebunk
03-19-2013, 08:20
Came in here to say mostly this, I'd settle for 12 years old, though.

Me too. Wouldn't that be awesome?

c2walker
03-19-2013, 08:25
Are you sure these are mash #2? I have heard otherwise but not from an authoritative source.

I have heard from two people independently that saw some barrels that said Ancient Age on them, but that's likely because Buffalo Trace Distillery was named Ancient Age Distillery at the time...so I don't believe that that informs the mash bill.

DaveOfAtl
03-19-2013, 08:30
Would be cool to have a BT Blend of Mashbills at cask strength a la the PHC2012. 12-15 Year Mash # 1 & 12-15 Year Wheated Mashbill. I guess it would essentially be a Stagg/WLW vatting.

Smokewagon
03-19-2013, 08:55
Seems I share taste with some who have already posted. Would love a regular production 12+ year unfiltered high or barrel proof Weller (Weller 12 and BTAC WLW are my favorites). Would really like an older (12-15 year) high proof Wild Turkey, OGD 114, and Old Fitzgerald.

~SW

Tony
03-19-2013, 08:55
I am also going for an extra aged MM at higher proof.

Would also like to get a cherry picked Van Winkle like was done with the 23yr decanter offering.

Some Angel's Envy that has 10-12 years on it could be interesting and yes higher proof would be nice.

Would like to hang out with Jim Rutledge for a day and have him pick me a barrel that he has been hiding away.

Best regards, Tony

barturtle
03-19-2013, 09:11
Barton Rye, fully aged, barrel proof.

While I could go for this, my current wish would be Dickel, fully aged (8-12yo), barrel proof.

straightwhiskeyruffneck
03-19-2013, 09:53
Came in here to say mostly this, I'd settle for 12 years old, though.
Was at the wild turkey distillery the other day, and the tour guide says that theyll be releasing a 17 year old barrel proof whiskey next year
Although he was unsure if it was gonna be a SB

sailor22
03-19-2013, 10:02
While I could go for this, my current wish would be Dickel, fully aged (8-12yo), barrel proof.


Wouldn't it be interesting to get an aged Dickle at barrel proof without the charcoal filtering? Curious what that might taste like.

barturtle
03-19-2013, 10:08
If you mean the Lincoln County Process, that is done pre-barreling. If you just mean the same type of filtering everyone does before bottling, that is a given to be removed in the whole barrel proof thing.

If you wanna see what it's like without the Lincoln County process, you're probably gonna find something either AA like or OC like. My guess is OC.

HighInTheMtns
03-19-2013, 10:22
Was at the wild turkey distillery the other day, and the tour guide says that theyll be releasing a 17 year old barrel proof whiskey next year
Although he was unsure if it was gonna be a SB
Wait, they really told you this? Anyone have any details?

sailor22
03-19-2013, 10:32
If you mean the Lincoln County Process, that is done pre-barreling. If you just mean the same type of filtering everyone does before bottling, that is a given to be removed in the whole barrel proof thing.

If you wanna see what it's like without the Lincoln County process, you're probably gonna find something either AA like or OC like. My guess is OC.

I'm confused, I thought Dickle and Jack approached the Lincoln County Process a little differently than each other... - Dickle going through the column pre-barreling (so they are filtering the white dog) and Jack is after dumping but pre bottling (so they are pouring the finished juice through the column)? Do I have it right?

My suspicion is that the process masks a lot of other flavors that might be really interesting.

Yeti
03-19-2013, 10:39
Would be cool to have a BT Blend of Mashbills at cask strength a la the PHC2012. 12-15 Year Mash # 1 & 12-15 Year Wheated Mashbill. I guess it would essentially be a Stagg/WLW vatting.

Now this I can get behind. WLW12, PHC 6th, and GTS12 were probably my 3 favorite bourbons from last year, in that order. Of course I think the WLW and GTS were both much older than the PHC (17ish vs. 11?). If somebody figured out the magic combination a W.L. Stagg release could be a world-beater.



Wait, they really told you this? Anyone have any details?

Yeah, this. This seems important.

squire
03-19-2013, 10:41
Both George and Jack filter the new whisky through a deep vat of charcoal (10 feet or more) before barreling the whisky for aging. This is called the Lincoln County process. The whisky is again given a chill filtering prior to bottling. The difference is Dickel chills the whisky before each filtering.

Gentleman Jack gets a second run through the big charcoal vat (or something similar) after aging and before bottling.

squire
03-19-2013, 10:43
17 year barrel proof WT? I could get behind that and would prefer it be a vatting rather than single barrel.

Yeti
03-19-2013, 10:49
17 year barrel proof WT? I could get behind that and would prefer it be a vatting rather than single barrel.

Agreed on the vatting. Better to get something with consistency at that age. Any bets on what WT proofs at after 17 years? If Stagg goes in at 125 and hits 140-144 around 17, where does 105 proof WT get? 125? Obviously storage location will play a huge roll.

squire
03-19-2013, 10:55
It will be strong enough, of that we can be assured.

straightwhiskeyruffneck
03-19-2013, 10:57
They really told me this! It was while we were looking at barrels in one of their old rickhouses. A man asked what the oldest whiskey they had was,(dont remember how old) and the tour guide said they actually had too much older whiskey & to get rid of it, they'd have to come out with some older expressions. They'd start next year with a 17 year old barrel proof bourbon. Alot of questions were asked but he had limited answers

squire
03-19-2013, 11:03
The other makers should follow suit.

ER07
03-19-2013, 11:14
I'd like to see Jack Daniels at around 10-12years/non CF/105-110 proof. JD has been making what I call 'safe' whiskey for the masses and I would just like to see what the guys in Lynchburg could come up with for the enthusiast.

Also, Weller 12 Barrel Proof is genius.

squire
03-19-2013, 11:16
According to the guys at JD everything they make is for the enthusiast.

HighInTheMtns
03-19-2013, 11:23
They really told me this! It was while we were looking at barrels in one of their old rickhouses. A man asked what the oldest whiskey they had was,(dont remember how old) and the tour guide said they actually had too much older whiskey & to get rid of it, they'd have to come out with some older expressions. They'd start next year with a 17 year old barrel proof bourbon. Alot of questions were asked but he had limited answers
I hope the tour guide was right but I have to say that it strikes me as rather hard to believe that WT has a surplus of older stock.

ER07
03-19-2013, 11:27
According to the guys at JD everything they make is for the enthusiast.

How are they so in tune

Josh
03-19-2013, 11:30
Just going by the Whiskey Tree doc from this site, although it does have a question mark by it.

To the question at hand, I'd love to see about a 12 year old JDSB at barrel proof just to see what one would taste like


I have heard from two people independently that saw some barrels that said Ancient Age on them, but that's likely because Buffalo Trace Distillery was named Ancient Age Distillery at the time...so I don't believe that that informs the mash bill.

This is one of the things about the whiskey tree that keeps me up at night. The only information I have been able to find on it was that it's #2, but the only thing that makes sense is #1. Hence the question mark.

In addition to what others have said, I'd love to taste a single barrel VOB (VVOB?) in the 10-15 yr range or a 12+ year old Early Times bourbon, as odd as it sounds. High corn bourbons age very well (think Old Charter Classic, OCPR or Stagg) and I think Early Times has a lot of potential. That will never happen, of course.

Kalessin
03-19-2013, 11:34
How are they so in tune

They selected their market segment with great care... :)

squire
03-19-2013, 11:51
And they've always made it exactly the same way since God gave Mr. Jack the formula.

Parkersback
03-19-2013, 12:03
High corn bourbons age very well

While we are dreaming, how about a Dixie Dew/Mellow Corn at 10-15 years in those used barrels. I really have no idea if it'd taste good, but I'd love to try it. It might begin to go in a scotch-like direction.

Tucker
03-19-2013, 12:40
While we are dreaming, how about a Dixie Dew/Mellow Corn at 10-15 years in those used barrels. I really have no idea if it'd taste good, but I'd love to try it. It might begin to go in a scotch-like direction.

I'll second that. I thoroughly enjoyed a pour of Greenore 15 a few years ago...should be similar, right?

Brisko
03-19-2013, 12:43
They really told me this! It was while we were looking at barrels in one of their old rickhouses. A man asked what the oldest whiskey they had was,(dont remember how old) and the tour guide said they actually had too much older whiskey & to get rid of it, they'd have to come out with some older expressions. They'd start next year with a 17 year old barrel proof bourbon. Alot of questions were asked but he had limited answers

I believe you (that they told you this), but my BS meter is about to go into meltdown. If they have old stock they want to dump, they could always bring the 12 year old back into domestic distribution. But I suppose that wouldn't be as big a moneymaker.

I have no doubt that they have enough 17 year old bourbon to put out a new limited edition (let's see, that would make it distilled in 96 or 97, not long after they ramped up production coming out of the glut) but the idea that they're swimming in a sea of superannuated bourbon is laughable.

sailor22
03-19-2013, 12:52
American Spirit was 15yr and supposedly had older juice in it, Tradition is 14yrs, hasn't been a big seller and has been on the market for 4 years or so. Having some stocks of 17+ available as a special edition sounds reasonable. Not sure about what they would call barrel proof - they seem to use the term loosely at WT. They call Rare Breed barrel proof and it's all bottled at 107.

squire
03-19-2013, 12:58
No reason why they wouldn't have old stock, they've been making whisky for a lot of years.

Brisko
03-19-2013, 13:01
Well if that's the case, what's their excuse for putting out whiskey that's young and hot?

Like I said, I'm sure they have some-- not a lot, but some. I wonder where they'll price it? I've seen Tradition in the neighborhood of $100.

OscarV
03-19-2013, 13:02
they seem to use the term loosely at WT. They call Rare Breed barrel proof and it's all bottled at 107.


I don't know about that, I have never seen or heard Rare Breed called barrel proof, they have been pumping out a lot of bottles for a lot of years at 108.2 proof so I doubt that they would say they all came out of the barrel at that proof but I could be wrong.

OscarV
03-19-2013, 13:20
Well if that's the case, what's their excuse for putting out whiskey that's young and hot?



Because spirits are trendy now and the trendy audience doesn't know any better, they just want to look cool,...did I say cool, pardon me that is oh so 1950's and '60's.

HighInTheMtns
03-19-2013, 13:21
I don't know about that, I have never seen or heard Rare Breed called barrel proof, they have been pumping out a lot of bottles for a lot of years at 108.2 proof so I doubt that they would say they all came out of the barrel at that proof but I could be wrong.
It says barrel proof on the label.

Josh
03-19-2013, 13:21
I don't know about that, I have never seen or heard Rare Breed called barrel proof, they have been pumping out a lot of bottles for a lot of years at 108.2 proof so I doubt that they would say they all came out of the barrel at that proof but I could be wrong.

It's right on the label my man.

Yeti
03-19-2013, 13:28
Rare Breed has a batch number (and I'm sure it's an ENORMOUS batch), so maybe 108.2 is the natural barrel strength. It goes in the barrel at 105, and RB is...what? 8 years old max? So depending on where it was stored I can see the vatting coming out to 108.2. "Cask strength" =/= "very high proof" by definition. It just works out that way with Kentucky bourbon more often than not.

OscarV
03-19-2013, 13:29
It's right on the label my man.


Damn, if you ain't right,...let's call WT out on this.
First the mighty mighty SB.com got MM to stop the water now let's stop this,...Barturtle where are you now that we need you?!?!?!?

HighInTheMtns
03-19-2013, 13:32
Rare Breed has a batch number (and I'm sure it's an ENORMOUS batch), so maybe 108.2 is the natural barrel strength. It goes in the barrel at 105, and RB is...what? 8 years old max? So depending on where it was stored I can see the vatting coming out to 108.2. "Cask strength" =/= "very high proof" by definition. It just works out that way with Kentucky bourbon more often than not.
I can buy that the early batch numbers actually denoted individual batches, but I don't buy that about WT-03RB. Purely speculation but I don't think they made a batch to last 10 years back in '03.

squire
03-19-2013, 13:42
Let's see, WT has at least 20 warehouses, as of the fire in 2000, so there could be more since then, each holding a little over one millions gallons. I don't know precisely what their sales figures are but it's not 20 million gallons a year, so, yeah, they have some aged surplus.

OscarV
03-19-2013, 13:47
, so, yeah, they have some aged surplus.


So when do you think they will bottle it and send it our way?

sailor22
03-19-2013, 13:54
Both Tradition and American Spirit are both notably dry and woody. Some say overaged and overpriced. Both are younger than 17yrs. I'll hold off getting excited about the new stuff until I get a chance to taste it.

OscarV
03-19-2013, 14:00
Both Tradition and American Spirit are both notably dry and woody. Some say overaged and overpriced. Both are younger than 17yrs. I'll hold off getting excited about the new stuff until I get a chance to taste it.

Yep, yep and yep on all three points, sometimes I get weak but holding off until 2014 isn't a bad idea,...unless WT can convince us other wise.

squire
03-19-2013, 14:08
Oscar as soon as they notify me I'll let 'cha know.

Josh
03-19-2013, 14:15
Damn, if you ain't right,...let's call WT out on this.

It happens once in a blue moon.


First the mighty mighty SB.com got MM to stop the water now let's stop this,...Barturtle where are you now that we need you?!?!?!?

:lol:

I think you have the finest flock of turkeys I've ever seen, O. I think you need to lead the charge!

Brisko
03-19-2013, 14:20
Rare Breed has a batch number (and I'm sure it's an ENORMOUS batch), so maybe 108.2 is the natural barrel strength. It goes in the barrel at 105, and RB is...what? 8 years old max? So depending on where it was stored I can see the vatting coming out to 108.2. "Cask strength" =/= "very high proof" by definition. It just works out that way with Kentucky bourbon more often than not.
Supposedly it's a vatting of 6, 8, and 12 year-old stocks. And their barrel entry proof has gone up lately (too lazy to search for specifics right now). The new batch is going to be 111 or something like that.

I can buy that the early batch numbers actually denoted individual batches, but I don't buy that about WT-03RB. Purely speculation but I don't think they made a batch to last 10 years back in '03.
Yeah, it does seem a little hard to swallow. Although the two WT-03Bs I've had in the past couple of years were pretty similar if not identical.


Both Tradition and American Spirit are both notably dry and woody. Some say overaged and overpriced. Both are younger than 17yrs. I'll hold off getting excited about the new stuff until I get a chance to taste it.
Which is why I would rather they put the aged stock into a 12 year-old bottling.

And that's why my early response for the "dream" single barrel specified a 12 year old Turkey (finally, back on topic!!).

And again, back on topic, would love to taste an Old Forester at about 9 or 10 years old and barrel proof.

barturtle
03-19-2013, 14:24
Both George and Jack filter the new whisky through a deep vat of charcoal (10 feet or more) before barreling the whisky for aging. This is called the Lincoln County process. The whisky is again given a chill filtering prior to bottling. The difference is Dickel chills the whisky before each filtering.

Gentleman Jack gets a second run through the big charcoal vat (or something similar) after aging and before bottling.
Also one, Dickel iirc, fills the tank and then releases the mellowed spirit, whereas the other just lets it drip through and collects at the bottom.

LostBottle
03-19-2013, 14:27
An 18yo barrel proof Bowman Rye would certainly grab my attention.

MauiSon
03-19-2013, 15:32
I guess I'm just either foolish or pragmatic - I'm happy with the current level of innovation and new/special product presentation. The major distillers are moving as fast as I could wish - good job, boys!

ChainWhip
03-19-2013, 15:32
An 18yo barrel proof Bowman Rye would certainly grab my attention.

This!

In addition, I'd like to see the current tanked Sazerac 18 go out with a bang and have it released as Barrel Proof for the final release.

Josh
03-19-2013, 16:33
While we are dreaming, how about a Dixie Dew/Mellow Corn at 10-15 years in those used barrels. I really have no idea if it'd taste good, but I'd love to try it. It might begin to go in a scotch-like direction.

Almost missed this one.

Yes! superb idea. I would love to see what those whiskeys can do at 12 y/o!

OscarV
03-19-2013, 16:43
While we are dreaming, how about a Dixie Dew/Mellow Corn at 10-15 years in those used barrels. I really have no idea if it'd taste good, but I'd love to try it. It might begin to go in a scotch-like direction.
That's about the best idea I have heard in a long time, wow! aged DD/MC, where do I stand in line?


Almost missed this one.

Yes! superb idea. I would love to see what those whiskeys can do at 12 y/o!

Hear hear!

DBM
03-19-2013, 17:06
Weller 15 year barrel proof
MM 100 proof, with or without extra age
ETL 18 year 107

White Dog
03-19-2013, 17:44
Not to repeat, but:

1: MM 10yr barrel proof

2: MM 15yr barrel proof

3: Weller 12 barrel proof

4: Handy 20yr barrel proof

5: WT Rye 20yr barrel proof

6: FR Wheated 12yr barrel proof (hey, we're dreaming, right.)

sailor22
03-19-2013, 17:56
That WT 20yr Rye sounds interesting! Yummy, especially if it spent those 20years on the bottom floor of their coolest warehouse.

petrel800
03-19-2013, 18:46
Not so much a single barrel, but I'd love to see a couple of the Master Distillers from different distilleries get together trade a few barrels to blend with their product. It would be cool to see what each distiller could do with the other's product.

HP12
03-19-2013, 19:26
Great thread Steve. This might be pushing the guidelines but for me...KBD honey barrel pick of one of their stellar 17-21yo wheater short barrels, barrel strength, NCF. Liquid f'ing candy.

clingman71
03-19-2013, 19:35
This!

In addition, I'd like to see the current tanked Sazerac 18 go out with a bang and have it released as Barrel Proof for the final release.

I wholeheartedly agree, provided I get at least one bottle!

black mamba
03-19-2013, 23:28
Saz 18 and WLW 18 at 107 proof, NCF. Just pour and enjoy.

darylld911
03-20-2013, 17:29
I just tried my first WTRRSB tonight and thought that was the best WT product I've tasted . . . ever (disclaimer - I haven't tried their dusty stuff). I would love to try that same barrel but at barrel proof. Smokinjoe's description of "sugar bomb" was on the money!

Old Dusty
03-20-2013, 18:55
Yeah, I agree. Nice idea for a thread Steve.

Funny, your first example is something close to what I would pick. With me and my love of wheaters, a 12-15 year old Weller at 100 proof would probably be my first choice. A close second would be an ER17 at 101 proof. See where I'm going with this? New and improved versions of Weller Centennial and ER 101.

So how about "W.L. Weller Antique" at 107 proof and 12 yr age statement? That's my dream bourbon. If they release it at 15 as well I'm down with that too.

straightwhiskeyruffneck
03-21-2013, 03:46
I'd like to see ten different single barrel expressions from four roses. Both mashbills and all five yeast strains. Barrel proof and around two years older then the BP SB's they currently offer

CoMobourbon
03-21-2013, 04:30
I'd like to see ten different single barrel expressions from four roses. Both mashbills and all five yeast strains. Barrel proof and around two years older then the BP SB's they currently offer

I feel like we've been dancing around this conclusion for much of the thread, so I'll just say it: Four Roses pretty much already does this. They pretty much make the barrel proof single barrel bottles that we fantasize about with other distilleries. A couple years more in the barrel seems like a small gap between the reality and the ideal.

squire
03-21-2013, 04:40
I don't fantasize about Bourbon although Bourbon helps me fantasize.

CoMobourbon
03-21-2013, 05:42
I don't fantasize about Bourbon although Bourbon helps me fantasize.

Yes. This.

morewordstofilltherequirement

Dolph Lundgren
03-21-2013, 05:58
I feel like we've been dancing around this conclusion for much of the thread, so I'll just say it: Four Roses pretty much already does this. They pretty much make the barrel proof single barrel bottles that we fantasize about with other distilleries. A couple years more in the barrel seems like a small gap between the reality and the ideal.

The most recent FR SB Binny's Select Barrel's were a tad bit older (some 10 yrs vs 8 or 9 yrs), and they had a bottling for every yeast strain and mashbill. I think they're all gone now, but you might want to keep an eye out for it next year.

clingman71
03-21-2013, 06:21
So how about "W.L. Weller Antique" at 107 proof and 12 yr age statement? That's my dream bourbon. If they release it at 15 as well I'm down with that too.

The 12/107 would be great. As for the 15, they do, it's called Pappy Van Winkle 15, especially the recent bottling.

sailor22
03-21-2013, 07:02
Sounds like the trend for these imaginary barrel picks seems to be to add more age and proof. Since this is a hypothetical exercise lets talk about what we expect we are gaining with our fantasy barrels.

What do you expect you favorite expression to gain from extra years in the barrel? More flavors? Which ones? Softer entry? More complexity?

What would higher proof bring to the party?

squire
03-21-2013, 07:22
Good question Steve, my choice was fully mature which could fall in the 7-8 year range. I want as much proof as I can get because of more flavor, I can always water it down but I can't flavor it up.

Yeti
03-21-2013, 07:52
Softer entry is a great thing to point out. I think the extra 2 years gives ER10 a more pleasant entry.

Proof for me is all about flavor complexity and mouthfeel.

black mamba
03-21-2013, 21:00
More age does add softer entry, but also more complexity up to a point. I find Pappy 20 to be no more or less complex than the 15 year, but it's softer with a little more shellac nose from the wood, which I like. Pappy 23 is less complex than either of the younger ones, which tells me that a 17-18 yr version might be the best. Of course, if you age it in a higher, hotter part of the rick house, you could reach full maturity at 12-14 years. It's not so much science as it is art.

mosugoji64
03-21-2013, 22:02
I think we're looking for more complexity, less heat, and thicker mouthfeel with these wishes. Seems like the best bourbons exhibit these qualities. FR has already given us some great bottles that fill these requirements. The BTAC also does so, albeit at a higher price point. The PH line fills that gap for HH. I think Beam is the last distillery that has yet to show us something great in this area. Booker's is a good start, but too young. They should offer up something with some age at barrel proof, and I would prefer something from the OGD line. Great thread, Steve!

Meruck
03-21-2013, 22:26
The right one. ................

sailor22
03-22-2013, 09:32
Jim Rutledge tells an interesting story regarding the age of whiskey.

The bean counters at 4R insisted they start going into the barrel at higher proof in order to maximize profit. He didn't want to but was overruled. The surprising (to the bean counters) result was that the higher proof juice took a year or more longer to mature, the added evaporation and taxes incurred in the extra aging negating any added profit they had hoped to gain.

Except, and this is a very big except, the current marketplace puts such a premium on age that the extra year(s) made to juice more desirable to the consumer. He implied that he could have made the same tasting whiskey a year or two earlier if he went into the barrel at lower proof but because it was older it was more desirable in todays marketplace. So putting it in the bottle as older whiskey helped sales, and while he didn't say it I suppose allowed for a more profitable pricing.

Sometimes I think we put too much emphasis on the age of a whiskey, there's more to the story than age.

squire
03-22-2013, 10:18
I fully agree Steve, I believe there is far too much emphasis on age. Jim Rutledge and his team can select barrels and put together a Small Batch Limited Edition far superior to something that's merely 18 or 20 years old.

MauiSon
03-22-2013, 12:25
Especially when he's using 17 year-old barrels! ;)

weller_tex
03-22-2013, 12:58
Weller 12 at cask strength as per one of the original suggestions. That would be awesome. I am in the minority around here that likes MM, so I would like to see MM at cask strength at 10-12 years. Also OGD 114..not sure how old it is, but maybe just add another 2 years.

squire
03-22-2013, 13:10
Maui they are more like an average of 12 with some older stuff thrown in, I could look the previous year(s) expressions and be specific but I don't work on Fridays.

sailor22
03-22-2013, 15:08
Weller 12 at cask strength as per one of the original suggestions. That would be awesome. I am in the minority around here that likes MM, so I would like to see MM at cask strength at 10-12 years. Also OGD 114..not sure how old it is, but maybe just add another 2 years.

I would like to taste a honey barrel of MM with more age and more proof also. 12yrs is something like 3 times longer than it's aged now isn't it? Sounds like a lot. As long as we are fantasizing lets get the fellas at MM to let us taste some barrels at +2 +4 and +6:grin:

squire
03-22-2013, 15:12
12 years is a bit over twice the usual MM aging period but they are seeking a balanced whisky without an overly woody effect.

Brisko
03-22-2013, 15:15
I would like to taste a honey barrel of MM with more age and more proof also. 12yrs is something like 3 times longer than it's aged now isn't it? Sounds like a lot. As long as we are fantasizing lets get the fellas at MM to let us taste some barrels at +2 +4 and +6:grin:

I'm not sure it's that young. But 8-10 years old seems to be a sweet spot for wheaters. I'd like to see MM in that range and maybe not even barrel proof. 107 would do. Sound familiar?

squire
03-22-2013, 15:35
Sounds good to me.

clingman71
03-22-2013, 15:40
I'm not sure it's that young. But 8-10 years old seems to be a sweet spot for wheaters. I'd like to see MM in that range and maybe not even barrel proof. 107 would do. Sound familiar?

Ive brought this up in other threads before. As basically all wheaters are descendants of Stitzel-Weller and Pappy Van Winkle(the man,not the bourbon), I'd like to see any of the modern wheaters at 12 years old and 100 proof. It would be sort of a nod to the legacy of Very Old Fitzgerald.

squire
03-22-2013, 15:52
One of the reasons Pappy bought the distillery was because Old Fitzgerald was already known as a quality brand and to his credit he continued with the wheat recipe developed by A. P. Stitzel. Pappy certainly made them famous though.

Brisko
03-22-2013, 18:24
Ive brought this up in other threads before. As basically all wheaters are descendants of Stitzel-Weller and Pappy Van Winkle(the man,not the bourbon), I'd like to see any of the modern wheaters at 12 years old and 100 proof. It would be sort of a nod to the legacy of Very Old Fitzgerald.
Well, if wishes were fishes, every brand would have 6, 8, and 12 year old bonded expressions, too. at least that's how it is in my fantasy.