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Flyfish
03-20-2013, 15:01
I built a fire today because it is still winter in Ohio never mind what the calendar says. Had a couple nice pours of VOB and noticed, for like the seventy eleventh time, that the neck band said it was "hand crafted." I have been to the distillery so I was wondering what in the world "hand crafted" meant. Let me say up front: I DON'T CARE! The important thing is that VOB is pretty good. Not as good as AAA in my opinion, but still pretty good. But there is all sorts of bourbon BS out there. Who invented Kentucky bourbon? Might have been Evan Williams. Or was it Elijah Craig? Maybe Old Mr. Crow because he's responsible for sour mash? All of the distillers have "back stories" that are mostly just stories. Like that stuff about the guy stealing from the really good barrels that were presursors to Larceny.
So, what is your favorite story (lie or not) about your favorite bourbon?

squire
03-20-2013, 15:08
Actually the true recipe for Bourbon was created by my Great-great-great-great Granddaddy who wrote the secret formula down on his deathbed.

The one the Yankee's stole and sold up in Kentucky is a fake we put together in case of theft.

I now posses the original . . . bids must be accompanied by certified funds.

Grain Belt
03-20-2013, 18:56
Small Batch!!!! Drinking a "small batch" Kirkland 103 proof (Costco/ made by Beam). Thought about the hundreds of stores that have this whiskey in them and then thought about how many barrels it must be. It might be small compared to Jim Beam white but it ain't small to me. Makes me think of when Federal ammunition brought out their "premium" line of ammunition in the early 80's. Then other brands came out with terms like Supreme and Premier. There is no legal designation for "small batch" It is terminology that makes it sound more elite, which it may be, but really it is just marketing for the most part. In the beer world it is "craft brewed." What the "h" does that really mean?

squire
03-21-2013, 08:14
To me it means there is no legal designation for the terms.

ramblinman
03-21-2013, 14:00
Small Batch!!!! Drinking a "small batch" Kirkland 103 proof (Costco/ made by Beam). Thought about the hundreds of stores that have this whiskey in them and then thought about how many barrels it must be. It might be small compared to Jim Beam white but it ain't small to me. Makes me think of when Federal ammunition brought out their "premium" line of ammunition in the early 80's. Then other brands came out with terms like Supreme and Premier. There is no legal designation for "small batch" It is terminology that makes it sound more elite, which it may be, but really it is just marketing for the most part. In the beer world it is "craft brewed." What the "h" does that really mean?

So "craft brewed" is a bit BSy, but "craft brewery" isn't. Its a term from the American Brewers Association and means a brewery that makes less than some number of barrels per year. Not legal by any means, but one of the larger trade groups I think. http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/craft-brewing-statistics/craft-brewer-defined

FWIW, we did the New Belgium tour while we were out in CO last year, and our guide told us they just bumped up the number because Sam Adams cracked it and there was nothing in beer industry terms between craft volumes and Coors.

squire
03-21-2013, 14:44
If I like the beer it doesn't matter to me who made it.

shoshani
03-25-2013, 10:11
I built a fire today because it is still winter in Ohio never mind what the calendar says. Had a couple nice pours of VOB and noticed, for like the seventy eleventh time, that the neck band said it was "hand crafted." I have been to the distillery so I was wondering what in the world "hand crafted" meant.

See, here's the thing, too: at least in Jim Murray's books from 15 years or so ago, the Barton plant is described as perhaps the most industrial, utilitarian whiskey distillery of them all. A distillery built to do its job, make a lot of whiskey and make it well. Not sure how hand-crafty that can be. But, it's delicious so most of us probably don't really care. :)

squire
03-25-2013, 10:20
Well, the barrels are hand crafted so I suppose anyone could claim some such thing.

P&MLiquorsEric
03-25-2013, 11:35
To me craft beer is fairly simple. If it is owned or brewed by Bud (inbev) or Miller/Coors, it is not craft. Pretty much everything else qualifies as craft. It can still be crap even if it qualifies as craft. Lots of craft breweries make subpar beer but there are others out there making outstanding beer.

Beer&Bourbon
03-25-2013, 15:17
To me craft beer is fairly simple. If it is owned or brewed by Bud (inbev) or Miller/Coors, it is not craft. Pretty much everything else qualifies as craft. It can still be crap even if it qualifies as craft. Lots of craft breweries make subpar beer but there are others out there making outstanding beer.

The bill that was introduced (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.3339:) changed the number of barrels that could be produced from 2 million to 6 million in order to be considered a "small producer". This is largely a matter of taxation since small producers pay less than their megaconglomerate counterparts.

The Brewers Association considers crafts brewers as such: "An American craft brewer is defined as small and independent. Their annual production is 6 million barrels of beer or less and no more than 25 percent of the craft brewery is owned or controlled by an alcoholic beverage industry member who is not themselves a craft brewer." The small definition comes from the definition of a small producer.

Where it gets fuzzier is when you consider Goose Island. Started as a craft brewery, expanded and then eventually purchased by AB/InBev. They're still producing one of the best bourbon barrel stouts (Bourbon County) with continued expansion of the product and new variants (Cherry Rye) that are also quite delicious. So you wouldn't consider this to be produced by a craft brewery, but would you classify this as a craft beer? Keep in mind that they use (fairly) traditional ingredients and innovative recipes to produce a high-quality delicious product. It frequently does better in blind taste tests than other craft beers. While I don't like people classifying Pyramid/Red Hook/Widmer/Shocktop as craft beers, I think you could make an exception for Bourbon County (as well as their Belgian line up).

cowdery
03-26-2013, 00:14
When ADI started its online forums, there were several efforts to define 'craft.' They eventually gave up. The only thing you can quantify for legal purposes is 'small producer.' Even the Brewers Association definition above contains a lot of bullshit. Define 'independent.' They exclude ownership by a larger brewer, but take Alltech Bluegrass Brewing. They're a small brewery owned by a billion dollar corporation. The parent company just doesn't happen to be in the beverage business.

P&MLiquorsEric
03-26-2013, 08:04
The bill that was introduced (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.3339:) changed the number of barrels that could be produced from 2 million to 6 million in order to be considered a "small producer". This is largely a matter of taxation since small producers pay less than their megaconglomerate counterparts.

The Brewers Association considers crafts brewers as such: "An American craft brewer is defined as small and independent. Their annual production is 6 million barrels of beer or less and no more than 25 percent of the craft brewery is owned or controlled by an alcoholic beverage industry member who is not themselves a craft brewer." The small definition comes from the definition of a small producer.

Where it gets fuzzier is when you consider Goose Island. Started as a craft brewery, expanded and then eventually purchased by AB/InBev. They're still producing one of the best bourbon barrel stouts (Bourbon County) with continued expansion of the product and new variants (Cherry Rye) that are also quite delicious. So you wouldn't consider this to be produced by a craft brewery, but would you classify this as a craft beer? Keep in mind that they use (fairly) traditional ingredients and innovative recipes to produce a high-quality delicious product. It frequently does better in blind taste tests than other craft beers. While I don't like people classifying Pyramid/Red Hook/Widmer/Shocktop as craft beers, I think you could make an exception for Bourbon County (as well as their Belgian line up).
BCS and the belgian variants are the only beers still produced at the original chicago facility. All other goose island beers have been absorbed into the Bud productions facilities. BCS is a great beer but for those of us that were in the original BCS distribution area, it has become a unicorn. It used to be around on a normal basis. Now it comes out, places get a case and then it disappears.

Not to mention many of the brewers/execs at GI have bolted in recent months. BCS is a great beer but Goose Island is no longer true craft. Same thing with Kona whom inbev bought.