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LiveFromLou
04-02-2013, 09:26
This could get interesting in a few years when these get a little age on them.

The additions include the following products: two new rye whiskeys, one made from 51% rye and 49% barley malt, and the other made with 51% rye, 45% corn and 4% barley malt; a 95% wheat whiskey; a 100% barley malt whiskey; and two bourbons, one produced with 45% wheat, and the other produced with 49% barley malt. The production of each is scheduled to begin this month.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mgp-expanding-whiskey-and-bourbon-offerings-with-addition-of-new-mash-bills-20130402-00138#.UVr3FByG18E

ChainWhip
04-02-2013, 10:13
This hearkens a bit to the "these are the good days" thread - I'm interested in the journey these whiskies will take before ending up in my cabinet :-)

Edit: ending up in my belly!

Wryguy
04-02-2013, 10:23
I'm particularly intrigued by the 51/45/4 rye corn barley mashbill. That sounds like it would be something akin to VWFRR, which to my palate does have a fair amount of corn. (IIRC 51/38/11 is the mashbill for VWFRR). I'd love to taste that at 8 years of age. Can't wait for the 2020s. :lol:

HighInTheMtns
04-02-2013, 10:51
I'm particularly intrigued by the 51/45/4 rye corn barley mashbill. That sounds like it would be something akin to VWFRR, which to my palate does have a fair amount of corn. (IIRC 51/38/11 is the mashbill for VWFRR). I'd love to taste that at 8 years of age. Can't wait for the 2020s. :lol:
51ish percent rye with high corn is the mashbill for Rittenhouse, Baby Saz/THH, WT rye, Beam rye... Basically LDI is adding a typical Kentucky style rye to their lineup.

Yeti
04-02-2013, 11:01
Wow, this is exciting news. The 51/49 Rye/Malt sounds extremely interesting, and I'm always looking to try new single malts from here in the states.

smokinjoe
04-02-2013, 11:04
This hearkens a bit to the "these are the good days" thread - I'm interested in the journey these whiskies will take before ending up in my cabinet :-)

Edit: ending up in my belly!

Which, in turn, segues me to the "What if microdistillers put out something good" thread - I'm much more interested in the new whiskey that LDI/MGP will put out than anything that 99% of the crafts will during the same time period. My confidence factor on the LDI products that they will be "average" to "better" is 80%. I'm saddened to say, my same confidence factor when applied to the micros, is 80% they will be "below average" and "worse"...with just a couple of exceptions...:(

WAINWRIGHT
04-02-2013, 12:15
This is good news,a great step towards the future with the rye resurgence in full swing.LDI/MGP was put out a lot of quality products in the last few years it will be interesting to see how and when these products hit the market.I hope to see a few of these with a good amount of age on them,now all we have to do is wait.

Josh
04-02-2013, 12:28
Great news. Hopefully a sign that MGPI is on the way up.

VT Mike
04-02-2013, 12:36
Which, in turn, segues me to the "What if microdistillers put out something good" thread - I'm much more interested in the new whiskey that LDI/MGP will put out than anything that 99% of the crafts will during the same time period. My confidence factor on the LDI products that they will be "average" to "better" is 80%. I'm saddened to say, my same confidence factor when applied to the micros, is 80% they will be "below average" and "worse"...with just a couple of exceptions...:(

Joe, is your lack of confidence in the craft outfits because you feel that they are producing lower quality distillate / still figuring out the art of distillation, or because they tend to age their whiskey for short periods of time in smaller casks to help with short term cash flow?

smokinjoe
04-02-2013, 14:15
Joe, is your lack of confidence in the craft outfits because you feel that they are producing lower quality distillate / still figuring out the art of distillation, or because they tend to age their whiskey for short periods of time in smaller casks to help with short term cash flow?

I honestly don't know, Mike. Could be some, or all, of the factors that you mention. Or, something else. It's just that of the multiple craft whiskies that I've tried, I have been totally underwhelmed. Berkshire Mountain Bourbon did taste like a bourbon, at least. So, I have hopes for them. Leopold's Small Batch American Whiskey was nicely flavored, balanced, and worthy of a repeat buy by me, too. I will admit that I believe the micros can do justice to corn whiskey. A couple of crafts have made a corn whiskey that I've enjoyed. I just can't say I have much hope for the bourbons and ryes in general, though.

I'll say that I just have more hopes in the majors expanding their product lines, creating new mash bills and offering palatable experimentals, than I have with the vast majority of micros producing anything even approaching the quality of the very-bottom-shelfers of the majors. But, I hope they keep trying, and prove me wrong.

Again, I am looking forward to what MGP can do with these new mashbills. They surprised the heck out of me with the tastiness of their rye in the various interations out on the market, even though I find their bourbon lacking as compared to other large distiller products.

dohidied
04-02-2013, 14:46
A Willet cask strength single malt in 20 years?

Phil T
04-02-2013, 15:08
All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??

Either way, indeed intriguing.

AaronWF
04-02-2013, 15:25
All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??


According to Dykstra, the company's new wheat whiskey and wheat bourbon "will be among some of the more unique products of their type" in the marketplace. "The popularity of wheat-based spirits, mainly in the white goods category, has grown in recent years," he said. "We expect this to favorably impact demand for products in the brown goods category, as well, and want to be firmly positioned to help our customers in the branded packaged goods arena meet that demand."

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mgp-expanding-whiskey-and-bourbon-offerings-with-addition-of-new-mash-bills-20130402-00138#ixzz2PLJTFsID

Sounds to me that they are diversifying their mashbills due to increased demand from their branded packaged goods customers. I don't see anything about bottling their own juice. On the one hand, it would be great to get to taste a wide range of mashbills from the same distillery. On the other hand, who's to say that the independent bottlers that source their juice from MGPI will reveal which mashbill/blend of mashbills they're using?

It's been kind of comforting to know that when you see some brand's whiskey labeled as distilled in IN, you have a good idea what to expect. With this expansion, independent bottlers' expression will be even more of a crapshoot. I see prices rising and any movement in the industry towards more transparency halted and reversed. Or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Maybe I'm taking this too far, but wouldn't the industry benefit more from encouraging consumers' curiosity about the ins and outs of what they're drinking rather than further relying on marketing gimmickry to win sustained interest in a brand? Maybe MGPI can put it in their contract that their bottling customers must supply the mashbill used for the whiskey on the label!

TheNovaMan
04-02-2013, 17:11
I think I'd like to try almost all of those!

Aaron, I'm sure prices will go up (they always do), but when MGPI bought LDI, the transparency increased. I suspect we'll see more of everything, from transparency to marketing gimmickery.

darylld911
04-02-2013, 17:14
I can't wait to try a 51/49 rye/barley - that strikes me as a "gateway American whiskey" for Scotch fanatics :grin:

MyOldKyDram
04-02-2013, 17:15
That one in particular sounds very interesting indeed.

black mamba
04-02-2013, 17:32
6-8 years seems like a long time to wait. I hope they have some space available on a 6th floor somewhere!

cowdery
04-02-2013, 17:57
All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??

Either way, indeed intriguing.

That's been asked and answered. They do not have any plans to create and market their own brands. They intend to be a contract distiller and bulk whiskey producer, selling to the highest bidder.

BMartin42
04-02-2013, 18:12
That's been asked and answered. They do not have any plans to create and market their own brands. They intend to be a contract distiller and bulk whiskey producer, selling to the highest bidder.

I agree that it begs the question to be asked AGAIN. It certainly wasn't asked and answered in this thread. No wonder I left this forum for so long. The amount of holier than thou here is worse than any other forum I frequent.

HighInTheMtns
04-02-2013, 18:12
Recent posts in the Four Roses Ten Recipes thread have me wondering about this esoteric question: is there an MGPI equivalent to the Four Roses OxSx recipe naming system? Certainly they had one during the Seagram's days, just curious if it's still in use. Kinda related question that's probably more interesting is whether MGPI is using a variety of yeasts.

cowdery
04-02-2013, 18:17
I'm tickled about this but I have some reservations. Just about everybody, including me, loves their 95% rye. I have much less love for their current bourbons, which seem a bit off. Now they want to go from about four recipes--one rye, two bourbons, one corn--to at least 10. (They also seem to make light whiskey and maybe one or two other recipes, and are willing to do custom recipes, so we could be talking 12 or more.)

I'm not saying that can't be done, but it's not usually done.

I compare them to Buffalo Trace, a distillery of similar size and vintage. Buffalo Trace has a lot more experience with straight whiskey. What is now MGP of Indiana has mostly made ingredient whiskeys for blends, not straights that have to stand on their own. Of the four whiskey recipes MGP is making now, only one is a bona fide winner. Buffalo Trace, by contrast, limits itself to four whiskey recipes; two rye-recipe bourbons, one wheat-recipe bourbon, and one rye, and is the master of them all. Can MGP be the master of 10, 12, or more different recipes? At best, it'll probably take some time.

You might also compare them to Four Roses, which was once in the same Seagram's family. They're both using proprietary Seagram's yeasts. Four Roses makes ten recipes, true, but they're all rye-recipe bourbon. They are able to switch from one recipe to another on the fly. They don't have to stop everything down to start up again with a new recipe. Can Indiana do that?

On the other hand, I know from spending most of my career as an independent contractor that the key to success for any provider of that sort is versatility. You never say no. You say yes and try to figure out how to deliver. This is the sort of challenge that is high risk, high reward. It pushes a person or a company to take chances and test their own limits. Since you're judged daily, you usually get some of both and just hope you win more than you lose. There's a lot to be said for it--I have no regrets--but success is far from a sure thing.

And, of course, I should live so long to taste one of these new recipes fully mature. I'm especially excited about the 45% wheat bourbon, which presumably will be 51% corn and 4% malt, no doubt with supplemental enzymes. There's never been a wheater with more than about 15% wheat.

The press release says nothing substantial about how these were developed. I sure hope they were at least piloted at some level. Ideally they've run at least one fermenter of each of them through the actual distillery. I don't know, I'll ask.

shoshani
04-02-2013, 21:09
I'm tickled about this but I have some reservations. Just about everybody, including me, loves their 95% rye.

Speaking of which, I wonder if there's an ice cube's chance in hell that they'd resurrect the original rye mashbill of 95% unmalted rye/5% malted rye, for a 100% rye whiskey...the way it was before Seagram's switched the malted rye content to malted barley?

tmckenzie
04-03-2013, 05:27
being as they used to make all flavoring whiskey for the time when blends where popular, I wonder if these are not new mashbills, but ones made in the past being brought back.

Josh
04-03-2013, 07:38
being as they used to make all flavoring whiskey for the time when blends where popular, I wonder if these are not new mashbills, but ones made in the past being brought back.

That's a good point. Maybe these were already in the filing cabinet. Still, one would expect them to do a trial run or two with all of these.

squire
04-03-2013, 07:53
Four years and a day from now we will know.

cowdery
04-03-2013, 12:02
Speaking of which, I wonder if there's an ice cube's chance in hell that they'd resurrect the original rye mashbill of 95% unmalted rye/5% malted rye, for a 100% rye whiskey...the way it was before Seagram's switched the malted rye content to malted barley?

Probably not because, if anything, malted rye has only gotten more expensive.

jburlowski
04-03-2013, 15:53
I compare them to Buffalo Trace, a distillery of similar size and vintage. Buffalo Trace has a lot more experience with straight whiskey. What is now MGP of Indiana has mostly made ingredient whiskeys for blends, not straights that have to stand on their own. Of the four whiskey recipes MGP is making now, only one is a bona fide winner. Buffalo Trace, by contrast, limits itself to four whiskey recipes; two rye-recipe bourbons, one wheat-recipe bourbon, and one rye, and is the master of them all.
.

Chuck,
Doesn't BT also make a corn whiskey (for their blends)?

mark fleetwood
04-03-2013, 17:20
Its great to see that facility kicking up its heals once more, after having been cast around, stocks taken advantage of, and poorly/mis/undermanaged for some time, including a stint as the northern most colony of Trinidad. She`s a source of pride for Lawrenceburg, much more so than the tawdry gambling boats or the collection of Four Finger Freddy Fireworks outlets.

tmckenzie
04-04-2013, 05:09
Probably not because, if anything, malted rye has only gotten more expensive.

Malted rye is not that big a difference in price than barley malt last load I got. 2 cents a pound higher. If you get it from the right folks.

oknazevad
04-04-2013, 11:14
Chuck,
Doesn't BT also make a corn whiskey (for their blends)?

No, according to this thread: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?4978-Buffalo-Trace-Mash-Bills

cowdery
04-04-2013, 14:49
Chuck,
Doesn't BT also make a corn whiskey (for their blends)?

They might, but they never talk about it when they talk about their five recipes.

cowdery
04-04-2013, 14:52
Malted rye is not that big a difference in price than barley malt last load I got. 2 cents a pound higher. If you get it from the right folks.

Speaking of which, I just learned that Four Roses is exclusively using Danish and German rye to get the robust flavor they want. Canadian rye ain't good enough for them.

My dad was an engineer for a big manufacturer, Tom. Figuring our a way to take 2 cents out of the product cost was a good day for him. You luxury producers have it easy. :)

tanstaafl2
04-04-2013, 16:25
I compare them to Buffalo Trace, a distillery of similar size and vintage. Buffalo Trace has a lot more experience with straight whiskey. What is now MGP of Indiana has mostly made ingredient whiskeys for blends, not straights that have to stand on their own. Of the four whiskey recipes MGP is making now, only one is a bona fide winner. Buffalo Trace, by contrast, limits itself to four whiskey recipes; two rye-recipe bourbons, one wheat-recipe bourbon, and one rye, and is the master of them all. Can MGP be the master of 10, 12, or more different recipes? At best, it'll probably take some time.



They might, but they never talk about it when they talk about their five recipes.

Is it 4 or 5 primary recipes for BT? I count five recipes, two rye bourbons, one wheat bourbon and two rye (Sazerac/THH rye and the CEHT Rye recipes). Presuming the CEHT rye will indeed be ongoing and be considered a primary mash bill I suppose.

squire
04-04-2013, 16:27
Tom you do your own mashing, can you speak to the difference in these rye grains?

cowdery
04-05-2013, 09:33
Is the CEHT rye supposed to be ongoing? I thought it was a one-off.

Anyway, the 'traditional' five BT recipes are the two rye-recipe bourbons, wheat recipe bourbon, rye, and vodka (Rain).

WAINWRIGHT
04-05-2013, 13:01
I was under the impression that the SmB,SB,BP and Rye will all be annual releases from here on out am I wrong on this one?

tanstaafl2
04-05-2013, 14:17
Is the CEHT rye supposed to be ongoing? I thought it was a one-off.

Anyway, the 'traditional' five BT recipes are the two rye-recipe bourbons, wheat recipe bourbon, rye, and vodka (Rain).

The way the CEHT rye seems to be selling, or rather not selling (still see it pretty frequently on the shelf in Atlanta) it may well be a one-off unless they lower the price to something like the SmB $40ish range.

I liked it but at $70 I am not likely to buy more anytime soon. $40ish and I might consider it.

cowdery
04-05-2013, 15:50
I think only one of the Taylors is supposed to be ongoing, as in an annual release. I don't recall which one it is but it's one of the bourbons, not the rye. I think the rye was a one-off. I'm not going back and consulting my notes, just answering from memory, so I might be wrong.

tmckenzie
04-05-2013, 19:13
Tom you do your own mashing, can you speak to the difference in these rye grains?
there is more variation in the flavor and yeild of rye grain than any other grain I have ever dealt with. frankly the stuff is a pain in the rear.