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cowdery
04-08-2013, 13:00
Most of us here rightfully disdain Red Stag, Jack Daniel's Honey and the rest, but make no mistake, they are very popular. The other day in my local supermarket, they had a Jack Daniel's end cap display and half of it was Old No. 7, the other half was Jack Daniel's Honey.

Although sometimes companies can get more shelf facings than they deserve, for the most part facings are a good indicator of popularity. If your store has five facings of Jim Beam White Label and three facings of Red Stag, you can be pretty confident that they are selling three bottles of Red Stag for every five bottles they're selling of Jim Beam White. And since you can't have less than one facing and be in the store, that store is selling at least three-times as much Red Stag as they are anything with a single facing.

Jim Beam's marketing muscle can gain sampling and initial placement, but this product has now been on the market for a couple of years. It's getting plenty of repurchase.

A former poster here had a good use for Red Stag. She mixed it with Knob Creek.

stiffchainey
04-08-2013, 13:02
Red Stag and the rest, I guess, is here (Germany) more popular than the "real" whiskey. You get it in every Bar, mostly girls drink it.

cowdery
04-08-2013, 13:09
I assume Germany is the same as the U.S., in that we like it when girls drink.

stiffchainey
04-08-2013, 13:16
Yeah, sure we do like Girls who drink. But the Red Stag and Honey stuff is advertised as the real deal of whiskey, even in cinema. In a country where JD and JB and sometimes Maker's is available, this is really not cool. I won't complain, though, I order my stuff from the internet.

MauiSon
04-08-2013, 13:27
Well, end caps are often bought and facing often vary with stock in the stores I frequent. Five facings of discounted Pink Revenge only indicates a lack of sales, not popularity.

JB64
04-08-2013, 13:33
I had a bourbon and cherry coke a while back and thought it tasted pretty good. I thought maybe a cherry flavored bourbon and coke may taste good also. I picked up a bottle of Evan Williams cherry and after I got it home I noticed that it wasn't even 80 proof and was called a liqueur. I didn't care much for the taste, I did go ahead and finished off the bottle though. I have been meaning to pick up a bottle of Red Stag when I find it on sale because at 80 proof I feel it may be a superior product compared to Evan Williams cherry. Now that it is being labled as girls whiskey, out of fear of being seen buying it at the store I will have my wife pick it up for me.

stiffchainey
04-08-2013, 13:36
Haha, my gf bought a bottle of Red Stag, I found it awful, really, nothing against it, though, she likes it. Never had the EV cherry, it is simply not available. Southern Comfort is very popular here, too.

Alden
04-08-2013, 14:16
Girls and kids like sweet drinks.

Give them a dry martini made with Bombay Blue and garnished with garlic stuffed queen olives, watch them spit it out.

:lol:

petrel800
04-08-2013, 15:13
You know we'll all curse Red Stag until the wife makes the ultimate error and brings how George T Stagg by mistake. Then we'll all happily run out and buy a bottle of Red Stag for the wife. :slappin:

Flyfish
04-08-2013, 15:49
I have a bottle of Red Stag and an Evan Williams honey. Neither one is for drinking. They are for pouring over pound cake.

ebo
04-08-2013, 16:28
Red Stag might just be the most awful stuff I ever tried. But, hey.... if other people like it, I have no problem with it. Different strokes and all that. :cool:

Dolph Lundgren
04-08-2013, 16:51
A couple months ago, I was playing a drinking game at a bar with a bunch of friends. The second place loser had to pick a shot and pay for it. The first place loser had to take the shot. The whole idea was make it as painful as possible for the first place loser. Red Stag was picked more than anything else, and they even had that nasty "Qream with a Q" drink. That says something about the Stag...

cowdery
04-08-2013, 16:56
Well, end caps are often bought and facing often vary with stock in the stores I frequent. Five facings of discounted Pink Revenge only indicates a lack of sales, not popularity.

You're talking about exceptions, which I conceded, and although consideration may be provided for a special display location, it's not sufficient compensation if the displayed product doesn't sell through. The rule holds, shelf and floor space are good indicators of sales unless, of course, the store is poorly run. Any store that bases facings on inventory is, by definition, poorly run. Both should be based on sales.

cowdery
04-08-2013, 16:59
A couple months ago, I was playing a drinking game at a bar with a bunch of friends. The second place loser had to pick a shot and pay for it. The first place loser had to take the shot. The whole idea was make it as painful as possible for the first place loser. Red Stag was picked more than anything else, and they even had that nasty "Qream with a Q" drink. That says something about the Stag...

Clearly, they didn't have Malort.

camduncan
04-08-2013, 17:09
But, hey.... if other people like it, I have no problem with it. Different strokes and all that. :cool:

Couldn't agree more. Personally I haven't tried a Cherry or Honey product I didn't like as they all seem to suit my sweet tooth.... but I couldn't drink them every day. They're an occasional pour when I don't feel like a bourbon or rye and want something sweeter. I like that drinking them means I'm supporting my favourite brands, but when the desire to drink something sweeter hits, I could just as easily pour a glass of port, Baileys or some other sweet liquor.

cowdery
04-08-2013, 17:12
Truth be told, I've gone through a couple bottles of Red Stag since it came out. For what it is, it's well made, but if you don't like that sort of thing, you won't like it. That's okay.

MauiSon
04-08-2013, 17:15
Regarding post #13, I don't think so. Endcaps in every store I've visited have been reserved for new items (bought, one way or another) or clearance (items the store wants to move, not that actually sell better). Best-selling items rarely receive much push. As for facings, one or two on every item is the rule, any deviation is rare.

As for flavored whiskey - no interest whatsoever (and what's it gonna taste like after 20 years in the bunker?).

j1mmyj4m
04-08-2013, 17:17
I actually enjoy Jack Daniels Honey with crushed ice when I'm trying to satisfy a sweet craving. I only drink it once or twice a month with the rest of the time enjoying good bourbon neat.

TheOakMonster
04-08-2013, 17:24
I'll check our store's sales history tommorrow, Jim Beam v Red Stag and Jack v Jack Honey. Without looking though, i can safely say we sell a boat-load more of the standard products. We purchase Beam 1.75s 10 cases at time versus Stag one case at a time.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-08-2013, 18:47
Chances are that brown foreman offered a good deal on both black and honey. Often times they will want case stacks or endcap facings of both honey and black in return for a good deal. The honey might be equal in facing because they have more stock of it.


In my store in the heart or bourbon country, black outsells honey 5 to 1 with Jd. The numbers are closer with wild turkey honey and 101.


Beam honey is just now hitting KY. Line priced with red stagg. Curious how that will work considering the honey tea was a resounding flop.

CoMobourbon
04-08-2013, 19:53
Chances are that brown foreman offered a good deal on both black and honey. Often times they will want case stacks or endcap facings of both honey and black in return for a good deal. The honey might be equal in facing because they have more stock of it.


In my store in the heart or bourbon country, black outsells honey 5 to 1 with Jd. The numbers are closer with wild turkey honey and 101.


That's really useful specific information. Certainly 5:1 is not 3:2. I would be interested to hear big scale numbers too.

But at the risk of nudging the conversation away from endcaps, I have to say that the original point in the OP still stands. Even if it is, say, 5:1, that's still a lot people buying and consuming Red Stag, right? Sometimes it feels like we treat it like a pathetic little aberration around here, but in the real world, it sells big. I can't say that I have tried nor that I intend to, but we're not everybody.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-08-2013, 20:32
That's really useful specific information. Certainly 5:1 is not 3:2. I would be interested to hear big scale numbers too.

But at the risk of nudging the conversation away from endcaps, I have to say that the original point in the OP still stands. Even if it is, say, 5:1, that's still a lot people buying and consuming Red Stag, right? Sometimes it feels like we treat it like a pathetic little aberration around here, but in the real world, it sells big. I can't say that I have tried nor that I intend to, but we're not everybody.

Those numbers were JD honey vs JD black. Take all three red stag flavors combined and beam 4yr outsells them 10:1. Keep in mind I am 15 miles from beam bourbon hq in clermont. If beam didn't treat us so well, all but cherry red stag would be disco'd. With beam
honey coming, honey tea might still get the axe.

CoMobourbon
04-09-2013, 01:30
Whoops. Good catch.

But still, clearly, the basic point still stands. Whether it's Stag or the major label honey whiskeys (it appears to be the latter) at 1:5 or even closer, these sugared/flavored whiskey liqueur things sell better than we probably think they do. We may treat JD Honey and WT Honey like sideshow freaks around here, but they are not really marginal when it comes to mainstream consumption. Lots of people are buying and drinking this stuff, and SB.com doesn't really even register in 'lots of people'.

Kalessin
04-09-2013, 10:19
Many of my favorite stores don't even HAVE endcaps...
http://pics3.city-data.com/businesses/p/3/5/1/9/5523519.JPG

Dolph Lundgren
04-09-2013, 11:06
Clearly, they didn't have Malort.


Oh, they did. The effects of Malort are less dramatic after taking several hundred shots over the last couple years.

Now only if they had Malort flavored Stag...

ThirstyinOhio
04-09-2013, 11:22
I don't mind Red Stagg and always have a bottle on hand. I don't drink it straight, but I do enjoy it mixed with homemade lemonade and a sprig of mint.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-09-2013, 11:35
Many of my favorite stores don't even HAVE endcaps...
http://pics3.city-data.com/businesses/p/3/5/1/9/5523519.JPG

Why bother with the last letter of a word. Saved them bunches on the sign.

Kalessin
04-10-2013, 16:25
The name of the business is currently Sav-Mor Spirits, they didn't change the sign to reflect that. Inside, some reasonable chaos, a fantastic beer selection, a cement floor, a fun attitude; and outside, an infamous sign:

http://savmorspirits.com/wp-content/themes/theme/images/stuff/04.png

higgins
04-11-2013, 09:09
A timely story from Shanken News Daily:

http://www.shankennewsdaily.com/index.php/2013/04/11/5559/exclusive-two-years-after-launch-jack-daniels-tennessee-honey-nears-half-a-million-cases/

"According to Impact Databank, Tennessee Honey ($22 a 750-ml.) advanced by 52% to 485,000 cases in the U.S. last year..."

Last time I checked, Maker's Mark is producing about one million cases. I knew flavored whiskey was popular, but I would have never guessed that it sells this well.

cowdery
04-11-2013, 09:13
You can hate the flavored products but you can't deny their success. This from Shanken today.

"According to Impact Databank, Tennessee Honey ($22 a 750-ml.) advanced by 52% to 485,000 cases in the U.S. last year, while its global net sales nearly doubled in the nine months through January, marking the first three-quarters of Brown-Forman’s fiscal year. In addition to the U.S., where off-premise growth has been accelerating, the U.K. is also driving global sales for the brand."

I don't think Red Stag is quite that high, but it's in the same ballpark. Compare that--400,000 to 500,000 cases--to something like Maker's Mark or Wild Turkey, which each sell about a million cases. Tennessee Honey, on the market for less than three years, is half the size of Maker's Mark, on the market for 50 years.

(Higgins and I appear to have posted simultaneously.)

higgins
04-11-2013, 09:19
Didn't mean to step on your toes there, Chuck! I should have figured that you get their emails as well. :lol:

cowdery
04-11-2013, 10:12
No problem. Great minds.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-11-2013, 11:57
You can hate the flavored products but you can't deny their success. This from Shanken today.

"According to Impact Databank, Tennessee Honey ($22 a 750-ml.) advanced by 52% to 485,000 cases in the U.S. last year, while its global net sales nearly doubled in the nine months through January, marking the first three-quarters of Brown-Forman’s fiscal year. In addition to the U.S., where off-premise growth has been accelerating, the U.K. is also driving global sales for the brand."

I don't think Red Stag is quite that high, but it's in the same ballpark. Compare that--400,000 to 500,000 cases--to something like Maker's Mark or Wild Turkey, which each sell about a million cases. Tennessee Honey, on the market for less than three years, is half the size of Maker's Mark, on the market for 50 years.

(Higgins and I appear to have posted simultaneously.)
Cant deny their success (or the fact that we will see many more flavors of "whiskey" in the future).

However, I am also curious if those number are cases shipped to distributors, cases sold from distributors to stores or cases sold to consumers. BF has made a big push for "placements" with the Tennessee Honey line. Placements can help sales but also might artificially inflate the numbers if the source is cases shipped to distributors or cases sold by distributors. If stores are sitting on huge inventories of these products (like we are right now), those numbers may not be indicative of sales to the consumer.

jburlowski
04-11-2013, 15:34
Here's some sales figures:
http://www.beveragemedia.com/index.php/2012/08/bourbons-new-frontier-the-innovation-path-leads-to-growth/

In 2011, its first year, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Honey sold 320,000 cases. Launched in 2009, Jim Beam Red Stag sold 300,000 cases in 2011, up 40% from 2010; the brand also just introduced two new flavors—Honey Tea and Cinnamon. Performance in 2011 was also solid for Wild Turkey American Honey (230,000 cases), Evan Williams Honey Reserve and Cherry Reserve (100,000 cases) and Seagrams 7 Crown Honey and Cherry (80,000 cases). Evan Williams added a Cinnamon Reserve in February 2012 and is introducing a new seasonal product called Apple Orchard in September 2012. Hailed as the first bourbon-based apple-cider liqueur at 34 proof, the point of sale materials will promote “A Bushel of Flavor Meets a Barrel of Smoothness.” Apple Orchard retails for $11.99.

Diageo’s popular Jeremiah Weed brand offers a Sweet Tea Bourbon as well as a 90 proof Cherry Mash Flavored Blended Bourbon. And in a clear sign that the company is bullish on flavor, earlier this year Diageo acquired Cabin Fever Maple Flavored Whisky, a small New England-based craft brand aged 3 years and infused with dark maple syrup.

Flyfish
04-11-2013, 16:52
You don't suppose anyone could confuse Red Stag with that other Stagg? Nah. Totally improbable.

Alden
04-11-2013, 18:35
I have to be honest. I have not had any super sweet whiskey since I was 16 and guzzled a pint of Southern Comfort in 10 minutes, then threw half of it up, then passed out for about 12 hours.

squire
04-11-2013, 18:55
Hey, if my honey wants honey that's what she gets.

cowdery
04-11-2013, 19:48
Cant deny their success (or the fact that we will see many more flavors of "whiskey" in the future).

However, I am also curious if those number are cases shipped to distributors, cases sold from distributors to stores or cases sold to consumers. BF has made a big push for "placements" with the Tennessee Honey line. Placements can help sales but also might artificially inflate the numbers if the source is cases shipped to distributors or cases sold by distributors. If stores are sitting on huge inventories of these products (like we are right now), those numbers may not be indicative of sales to the consumer.

I suspect what they're quoting is producer depletions, but it doesn't matter. It's a year's worth of numbers, so it covers all three. On something like Jack, that inventory moves through the pipeline fast. It has to. If you hold onto it you're tying up a lot of capital and warehouse space, and why would you?

If you're theorizing that they're forcing it into the pipeline but it's sitting in the stores, well, it's not. That might be reflected in figures for a month, but not for a year. And it's been on the market, and selling like this, for a couple years now. Sorry, people are buying the stuff. Deal with it.

MauiSon
04-11-2013, 19:59
Luckily, none of us has to deal with it. We can blithely ignore it. Flavored whiskies are competing with flavored vodkas. My interest in either is equal to the null set. When Four Roses puts out a flavored whiskey, I'll start idly wondering why. As for the rest, could anyone imagine a better way to dispose of rot-gut whisky than to flavor it?

callmeox
04-12-2013, 11:57
I have to be honest. I have not had any super sweet whiskey since I was 16 and guzzled a pint of Southern Comfort in 10 minutes, then threw half of it up, then passed out for about 12 hours.

IIRC, Southern Comfort hasn't had a whiskey component in a long time. I believe it is GNS based now.

Alden
04-12-2013, 12:14
IIRC, Southern Comfort hasn't had a whiskey component in a long time. I believe it is GNS based now.

Great New Stuff?

callmeox
04-12-2013, 12:19
Great New Stuff?

GNS is Grain Neutral Spirits

Check here for acronyms and other good to know stuff

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/announcement.php?a=8

Leopold
04-12-2013, 14:00
Let's not forget that some of the best selling and most highly regarded whiskies in the world are flavored.

Or does malted barley normally taste like peat smoke?

TheNovaMan
04-12-2013, 15:01
It tastes like peat smoke if the barley is malted over a peat fire. I don't know how many outfits actually do that anymore, but that's how they did it "back in the day."



As with anything that enjoys sudden, explosive popularity, I wonder if flavored whiskey is a fad. One can only hope...

cowdery
04-12-2013, 16:33
That's a funny situation, with Southern Comfort. When Brown-Forman acquired the company in 1979, it was a 100% GNS base. A few years later, they reformulated it to contain a little bit of bourbon, I guess so they could call it a whiskey liqueur, rather than just a liqueur. Apparently, although no one will give me the details, they reverted back to 100% GNS a few years after that and that's what it is now.

It's mixed and bottled at Brown-Forman in Louisville. The GNS comes from some GNS supplier like MGP or ADM, the fruit concentrate (mostly apricot) is made at a Brown-Forman facility in Puerto Rico, and the final ingredient is sugar. I remember being in the room one time when they were bottling it. It goes through a filtration system and after a while, the filter module looks like a honey comb, with sugar syrup oozing out of it at every opportunity.

If you know your American whiskey history, compound or 'fake' whiskeys were a big problem pre-Prohibition. Southern Comfort can be traced back to 1874. You might consider it history's most successful compound or 'fake' whiskey. They didn't call it whiskey, of course. They called it "The Grand Old Drink of the South." Another funny thing, it never sold that well in the South. When I was working on the brand, its #1 state was New Jersey.

higgins
04-12-2013, 17:25
We know that flavored whiskey is popular, but do we know who is actually buying this stuff? MauiSon proposed vodka drinkers, but I always see Shanken News and others claim that these drinks are targeting the "young brown spirits drinkers" category.

Are these products 'winning over' vodka drinkers, or are they just competing with other low-priced bourbon?

Flyfish
04-13-2013, 17:53
If you know your American whiskey history, compound or 'fake' whiskeys were a big problem pre-Prohibition. Southern Comfort can be traced back to 1874. You might consider it history's most successful compound or 'fake' whiskey. They didn't call it whiskey, of course. They called it "The Grand Old Drink of the South." Another funny thing, it never sold that well in the South. When I was working on the brand, its #1 state was New Jersey.
I seem to recall a Three Stooges episode in which Moe said,"Oh, Southern Comfort!" and Curly replied, "Tastes more like southern comforter to me."

TheOakMonster
04-13-2013, 22:20
Ok, I ran some numbers at work today. All reported numbers below are our store's sales, so far, for 2013 (January to present):
Jack Daniels Black // all sizes we carry
1.75l = 151 btls
1L = 98 btls
750ml = 132 btls
375ml = 57 btls
Jack Daniels Honey // all sizes carried
1L = 35 btls
375ml = 12 btls

Jim Beam White //
1.75L = 102 btls
1L = 116 btls
(we also carry 750ml and 375ml, but sales are fairly low)

Jim Beam Red Stag// all sizes we carry
1.75L = 15 btls
1L = 38 btls

So, yeah, we sell some flavored whiskey, but the numbers don't add much to our bottom-line. I mean, there's certainly items in the store that sell far, far less than Jack Tennessee Honey, but Jack Honey isn't keeping the lights on.

CoMobourbon
04-14-2013, 08:51
One question to inform this discussion: are the margins on flavored whiskeys significantly higher than those of regular bottles?

I would guess the answer is yes based on the following speculations:
-they can put cheaper / lower quality / less aged whiskey into flavored bottles
*-they can and do mix in some GNS, which is of course much cheaper than aged spirits
-at scale, the cost of the sweetener/flavor rounds to zero
-they can consistently charge as much or more for the flavored bottles as the regular bottles (they do around here)

If these speculations are right, then someone somewhere along the supply chain is making a relatively high profit per bottle. Is it the retailer (like TheOakMonster) or the producer? I would guess the producer.

Then, in that case, does that explain why producers are pushing it so hard?

squire
04-14-2013, 08:59
Not only younger (cheaper) whiskys but lower alcohol proof as well so the profit margin is greater. Is there any GNS in these things?

CoMobourbon
04-14-2013, 09:13
Is there any GNS in these things?

Good catch. There almost has to be some in most/all of them, right? I mean, once it's flavored and all whiskey-category bets are off, who could resist?

callmeox
04-14-2013, 09:17
If they are listed as Whiskey with natural flavors then GNS should not be present. This was the case when Red Stag came out but I have not seen the labels on the others.

squire
04-14-2013, 09:38
Beam identifies Red Stag as Straight Bourbon infused with natural flavors, so, no GNS which may be the case for high end flavored whiskys. With the market building though the cheaper ones could get by with as little as 20% of young whisky with the balance GNS and flavorings while still putting the word whisky on the label.

cowdery
04-14-2013, 11:18
Was in a bar yesterday that had five or six bottles of Fireball on the back bar. I believe the bartender said they sell about 80 shots of it a night. And they had just sold out of Tennessee Honey. You do know there is now an Old Bushmills Honey and a Dewars Honey?

Seagram's Seven Dark Honey is flavored blended whiskey, so it contains GNS. If it's American and says 'blended' or 'a blend' on the label, then it's probably 80 percent vodka (GNS). If it just says 'whiskey,' but not 'blend' or 'blended,' it might be a lot of things, but it doesn't contain GNS.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-14-2013, 18:00
Beam identifies Red Stag as Straight Bourbon infused with natural flavors, so, no GNS which may be the case for high end flavored whiskys. With the market building though the cheaper ones could get by with as little as 20% of young whisky with the balance GNS and flavorings while still putting the word whisky on the label.

All the others call themselves Honey liqueur. (at least those i checked, EW, WT and Seagrams 7). Beam is the only that identifies itself as infused bourbon.

The cinnamon flavored whiskey <products> They all want to be in the whiskey/bourbon section and "next to jagermeister". Just like every cream style liqueur wants "to be next to Baileys".

The Fireball whiskey from Sazarac sells the best of those . It appeals to the younger crowd... I was in new orleans recently and it was the one sazarac (except taaka vodka) product that was in every bar on bourbon street. Diagio products dominated the rest of bourbon street.

squire
04-14-2013, 18:10
That's their out then, I noticed the Jack Daniels version has "blended with" whisky on it's label.

JB64
04-15-2013, 00:33
Was in a bar yesterday that had five or six bottles of Fireball on the back bar. I believe the bartender said they sell about 80 shots of it a night. And they had just sold out of Tennessee Honey. You do know there is now an Old Bushmills Honey and a Dewars Honey?

Seagram's Seven Dark Honey is flavored blended whiskey, so it contains GNS. If it's American and says 'blended' or 'a blend' on the label, then it's probably 80 percent vodka (GNS). If it just says 'whiskey,' but not 'blend' or 'blended,' it might be a lot of things, but it doesn't contain GNS.


I just saw the Dewers honey yesterday, looks like everybody will join this party.

Phil T
04-15-2013, 12:57
I was at TPS earlier and noticed Rebel Reserve in both cherry and honey. Since I was not interested, did not look to see if it said bourbon

Enoch
04-15-2013, 18:13
I'm going to a tasting of Carolina Cock Flavored Whiskey tomorrow. Curious about this one.

MyOldKyDram
04-15-2013, 18:15
Is that really the name of it? They may want to rethink that.

Enoch
04-16-2013, 00:20
Is that really the name of it? They may want to rethink that.

Yes, That's the name. Even the liquor store that is having the tasting apologized for the name.

Alden
04-16-2013, 04:57
I'm going to a tasting of Carolina Cock Flavored Whiskey tomorrow. Curious about this one.

One time I posted a pic of myself on a hunting forum with a dead gobbler I had shot.

Some guy from the UK or AU commented on it, he said "Nice cock."

I thanked him.

Borchard
04-17-2013, 13:14
I agree with someone earlier who said that Red Stag was the worst thing they'd ever drank. i tried it at a Whiskey tasting, and almost spit it out. Also, one of my friends was RAVING about Crown Royal Maple. I thought I should be poring it over pancakes it was so sweet....
The only one I've tried that I even half-way liked was maker's Mark Mint Julep. It, spurprisingly, was not half bad IMHO

Kalessin
04-17-2013, 13:39
Is that really the name of it? They may want to rethink that.

Either that or it's a great case of "know your target demographic"...

Alden
04-17-2013, 13:50
I almost bought a mini of that JD Honey, just to taste it, but for $3.00! I'll pass.

JB64
04-17-2013, 14:25
Reg Stag was on sale last weekend and I bought a bottle to give it try. Mixed it with coke and it was a decent drink, a lot better than EW cherry. I may get another bottle when it goes on sale again.

Alden
04-17-2013, 14:37
Reg Stag was on sale last weekend and I bought a bottle to give it try. Mixed it with coke and it was a decent drink, a lot better than EW cherry. I may get another bottle when it goes on sale again.

Of course you could always just mix some JB with cherry Coke and get the same flavor.

Just sayin'.

P&MLiquorsEric
04-17-2013, 15:43
I will say the new beam honey is not bad. Bourbon on nose and finish. Sweet honey in the middle.

Line priced with Beam 4 year. This one has legs and will do well at that price point.

JB64
04-17-2013, 16:03
Of course you could always just mix some JB with cherry Coke and get the same flavor.

Just sayin'.

I could but I already keep my bar stocked with coke and a few other mixers for myself and guests. It is easier to find room for another 750 on the shelf than to try and squeeze a 12 pack of cherry coke in the fridge.

DrinkSpirits
09-03-2013, 09:26
Here's our review of the new Jim Beam Maple (http://www.drinkspirits.com/whiskey/review-jim-beam-maple/)

If you don't want to click through here's our conclusion:


While we enjoyed Crown Royal Maple, one of the major complaints we heard from readers is that it’s just too thick and sweet. Jim Beam Maple is a touch less sweet and does a better job balancing the sweet maple with the oak spice. One of the best things about Jim Beam Maple is that it does allow the base Jim Beam Whiskey to shine through. Our only real gripe about Jim Beam Maple is how long the maple aftertaste sticks around long after the spirit has finished. Perhaps at a slightly higher proof this wouldn’t be the case. - See more at: http://www.drinkspirits.com/whiskey/review-jim-beam-maple/#sthash.8DAfjGr1.dpuf

WhiskyRI
09-05-2013, 18:59
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that Flavored whiskies, and other flavored spirits, are taxed at a lower rate than regular whiskies or spirits. It makes you wonder if that is part of the reason for the heavy push - obviously not the only one but if it helps increase profit margins by a few percentage points all the better.

cowdery
09-12-2013, 17:00
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that Flavored whiskies, and other flavored spirits, are taxed at a lower rate than regular whiskies or spirits. It makes you wonder if that is part of the reason for the heavy push - obviously not the only one but if it helps increase profit margins by a few percentage points all the better.

That's only true when they are lower proof. The Federal Excise tax is based on proof (i.e., alcohol content) as are some state and local taxes. If the tax isn't based on proof, it's based on price. All of the flavored whiskey products are still spirits and all spirits are taxed at the same rate.

393foureyedfox
09-12-2013, 17:14
is it taxed at the proof once the barrel is opened, or is it taxed on proof once bottled? for example, does Beam pay different tax rates overall for bottling Knob Creek at 100 and 120 proof, per barrel? if you think about it, lets say one barrel of 9 year old KC makes 200 bottles of 120 proof, or 250 bottles of 100 proof (purely conjective...), is Beam paying the same tax per barrel, or different?

P&MLiquorsEric
09-12-2013, 17:49
is it taxed at the proof once the barrel is opened, or is it taxed on proof once bottled? for example, does Beam pay different tax rates overall for bottling Knob Creek at 100 and 120 proof, per barrel? if you think about it, lets say one barrel of 9 year old KC makes 200 bottles of 120 proof, or 250 bottles of 100 proof (purely conjective...), is Beam paying the same tax per barrel, or different?

I believe they pay a flat tax per barrel each year based on entry proof no matter how much is left inside.

squire
09-12-2013, 18:13
Well that sucks. No wonder they barrel so much of it at 4 years or less.

P&MLiquorsEric
09-12-2013, 18:22
Well that sucks. No wonder they barrel so much of it at 4 years or less.

It might also explain why some places prefer a lower entry proof. It's all about the Benjamin's baby.

I know barrels are taxed at a flat rate each year, if that tax varies by proof is what I am unsure of.

393foureyedfox
09-12-2013, 18:32
I believe they pay a flat tax per barrel each year based on entry proof no matter how much is left inside.


thats what i understood from all the tours ive taken in. the above post though made it sound as though it may be taxed differently based upon the proof at which it is bottled and sold.


paying taxes on 53 gallons every year per barrel explains the high cost of highly aged whiskeys though. if youve been paying taxes on 53 gallons for 25 years, only to open it up and get 10 gallons out of it, the cost of all those taxes over 25 years on something you cant recover, plus the cost of warehousing something for 25 years, makes for one pricey product.

squire
09-12-2013, 18:35
There are other taxes that apply after the whisky is bottled and makes its way through the distribution system and proof may well play a part there.

393foureyedfox
09-12-2013, 18:37
wouldnt surprise me. uncle sams got his paws in every step of everything.

tax you on what you earn, tax you when you spend whats left, and then retax you on what you own (property taxes, etc). what a racket

P&MLiquorsEric
09-12-2013, 18:39
thats what i understood from all the tours ive taken in. the above post though made it sound as though it may be taxed differently based upon the proof at which it is bottled and sold.


paying taxes on 53 gallons every year per barrel explains the high cost of highly aged whiskeys though. if youve been paying taxes on 53 gallons for 25 years, only to open it up and get 10 gallons out of it, the cost of all those taxes over 25 years on something you cant recover, plus the cost of warehousing something for 25 years, makes for one pricey product.

Uncle Sam is great at taxing the same item a multitude of stages in its production. A tax is paid to "warehouse" barrels (basically a property tax) and more taxes are paid when bottled and shipped. Plus the states get their cut too.

TunnelTiger
09-12-2013, 18:48
Just wait till they start a value added tax like Europe, woohoo!

P&MLiquorsEric
09-12-2013, 19:09
Just wait till they start a value added tax like Europe, woohoo!

With booze, there are already lots of similar taxes. We just call them warehousing, wholesale and then sales tax.

squire
09-12-2013, 19:20
Then sales tax on the distributor to the retailer, then State, County and City sales taxes to me when I buy it from him.

theglobalguy
09-12-2013, 19:25
Then sales tax on the distributor to the retailer, then State, County and City sales taxes to me when I buy it from him.

It's one of those cases where i'd love to see what the cost would be without all that (out of curiosity), but would regret that decision forever after when picking up a bottle. And as much as i know we pay plenty, every trip to Canada i am starkly reminded it could be much worse.

Flyfish
09-15-2013, 19:13
paying taxes on 53 gallons every year per barrel explains the high cost of highly aged whiskeys though. if youve been paying taxes on 53 gallons for 25 years, only to open it up and get 10 gallons out of it, the cost of all those taxes over 25 years on something you cant recover, plus the cost of warehousing something for 25 years, makes for one pricey product.
On our tour at BT we watched the barrels being filled. Then they rolled a few feet to where a bar code was added. Tour guide Freddie said that as soon as the bar code was added, the tax clock started ticking. Tick, tick, tick just like the clock in Peter Pan that haunts Capt. Hook.

Richnimrod
09-17-2013, 19:51
In general I like flavored whiskeys very well..... :lol: But only if the flavoring agents are:
*The Mashbill
*The Barrel Char
*The Lovely Red-Line
*The Age
*The Position in the Rickhouse

cowdery
09-18-2013, 08:56
The FET is owed when the whiskey is removed from bond or at the end of the bonding period, whichever comes first. The amount is based on volume and proof, figured to proof gallons. The rate is $13.50 per proof gallon. It is based on the actual amount withdrawn. You don't pay tax on angel's share.

State and local taxes that are based on alcohol content are based on proof in the bottle.