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Meruck
04-08-2013, 16:41
So I know one of the Gurus' is going to tell me this horse has been beaten, but I have done searches and cant find the info. Whats in the Vinatage 17 bottles?

I was lucky enough to some recently and all I can say is.....mmmmmmmhhhmmmmm!! Its good.

Who's whiskey is it?

c2walker
04-08-2013, 16:48
So I know one of the Gurus' is going to tell me this horse has been beaten, but I have done searches and cant find the info. Whats in the Vinatage 17 bottles?

I was lucky enough to some recently and all I can say is.....mmmmmmmhhhmmmmm!! Its good.

Who's whiskey is it?

You're right, the horse has been beaten to death and then some more. If you have a newer bottle then it's Bernheim wheated bourbon.

Meruck
04-08-2013, 17:54
Thanks,

Bernheim was one of my three candidates.

As for "newer" bottlings I dont know. Wheat shaffs on the label, Neck tag indicating MA rating of 92 and 3.5 stars out of 4....green wax sealed top. bacl label indicating its the best and rarest there ever was

WAINWRIGHT
04-08-2013, 18:11
There are some images of the rye vs wheater iterations of the V17 taken of the labels side by side,but it will take some digging.I myself just recently did a search to show someone else and of course now I am unable to find it.

MyOldKyDram
04-08-2013, 18:14
Doesn't the wheater simply have a scripted font on the back?

Josh
04-08-2013, 18:16
So I know one of the Gurus' is going to tell me this horse has been beaten, but I have done searches and cant find the info. Whats in the Vinatage 17 bottles?

I was lucky enough to some recently and all I can say is.....mmmmmmmhhhmmmmm!! Its good.

Who's whiskey is it?

You're wrong. An "enthusiast" told you that. :grin:

Trey Manthey
04-08-2013, 18:26
This shows both labels:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?17581-Vintage-Bourbon-17-2012/page4 (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?17581-Vintage-Bourbon-17-2012/page4)

Phil T
04-08-2013, 18:28
Doesn't the wheater simply have a scripted font on the back?

The font on the wheater is just like what you're reading here.

MyOldKyDram
04-08-2013, 18:32
Oops! Had it backwards. But then again, I'm no guru. :P

Josh
04-08-2013, 19:30
Oops! Had it backwards. But then again, I'm no guru. :P

Neither am I. I was just unemployed for an extended period of time.:lol:

squire
04-10-2013, 08:59
So, are you trying to get us to talk you into it or out of it?

Meruck
04-23-2013, 19:44
So, are you trying to get us to talk you into it or out of it?

Neither, I found a stash and found it delightful. While it may not be "fine bourbon" it is really good!!!

jeffrey r
04-24-2013, 06:05
Neither, I found a stash and found it delightful. While it may not be "fine bourbon" it is really good!!!

I wouldn't hesitate calling 17 year old Bernheim wheated bourbon "fine bourbon". I have a bottle open, and a few bottles still stashed, and think it is great.

And considering the way the prices on the premium bourbons are only going up, at $65, they were a good buy in my opinion.

Restaurant man
04-24-2013, 20:34
I wouldn't hesitate calling 17 year old Bernheim wheated bourbon "fine bourbon". I have a bottle open, and a few bottles still stashed, and think it is great.

And considering the way the prices on the premium bourbons are only going up, at $65, they were a good buy in my opinion.

Amen. :iagreejeff: Bring me all u got. Delish

tigerlam92
04-25-2013, 01:48
Grrrrr. I just bought one from Bevmo and they said they just got it and only got one. It is scripted and maybe the rye version. How can that be for such an older bottling!

Wished it was wheated.

Hugh

tigerlam92
05-31-2013, 17:16
Ok, so if it is a rye V17, does it have the same origination as the V21/23 so is similar to the PVWFRR?

If so, I'm quite excited now of mu bottle and perhaps more glad it's the rye than a wheater. I'm probably going to pop that open and taste it anyhow.

Thanks,
Hugh

Meruck
05-31-2013, 17:22
Ok, so if it is a rye V17, does it have the same origination as the V21/23 so is similar to the PVWFRR?

If so, I'm quite excited now of mu bottle and perhaps more glad it's the rye than a wheater. I'm probably going to pop that open and taste it anyhow.

Thanks,
Hugh

Probably........ ?????

Tico
05-31-2013, 17:26
Ok, so if it is a rye V17, does it have the same origination as the V21/23 so is similar to the PVWFRR?

If so, I'm quite excited now of mu bottle and perhaps more glad it's the rye than a wheater. I'm probably going to pop that open and taste it anyhow.

Thanks,
Hugh

its a rye based bourbon, not a rye

tigerlam92
05-31-2013, 17:36
its a rye based bourbon, not a rye

I see. Got it.

Thanks.

squire
05-31-2013, 17:55
The important thing is you have it in hand so open 'er up.

bontrager
05-31-2013, 18:09
I have a couple bottles of VB17 on the way as well. Can't wait to see how it compares to other wheaters out there.

wildrnesxperienc
04-14-2014, 10:36
Evidently, according to Drew Kulsveen, there actually is no way to tell from the script on the back label whether the bourbon inside is a wheater or a ryed. The label change didn't correspond to the recipe change. This was relayed to me by Sku.

bontrager
04-14-2014, 10:43
Finished my bottle of V17 a few months ago. Quite palatable, easy drinker, but lacked complexity. Wouldn't go out of my way to get another one. Mine definitely tasted like a wheater.

MyOldKyDram
04-14-2014, 10:45
I've heard this before. Sure we all have. If this is the case then I'm wondering where the speculation/information that it was wheated bourbon came about in the first place. Been widely accepted as fact for so long that I would live to know its origin.

flahute
04-14-2014, 13:32
Drew Kulsveen confirmed this on twitter and it has since been relayed/reported by a couple bloggers.

Ejmharris
04-14-2014, 16:44
Drew Kulsveen confirmed this on twitter and it has since been relayed/reported by a couple bloggers.

It's on the internet. It has to be true. #skeptical


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Lost Pollito
04-14-2014, 17:57
Drew Kulsveen confirmed this on twitter and it has since been relayed/reported by a couple bloggers.
What exactly was confirmed?

Kwats7
04-14-2014, 18:08
What exactly was confirmed?

Drew confirmed to Sku that the font on the back is irrelevant as to re: whether the juice inside is Rye or Wheated.

Here's a link to the story on RW&B:

http://redwhiteandbourbon.com/2014/03/13/mythbusters-vintage-17-font-irrelevant/

Ejmharris
04-14-2014, 18:22
As far as I can tell from the comments in the blog, SKU just retweeted something he has seen on twitter. Will let him confirm that. Pretty sure people here are not questioning whether or not this label thing is legit or not. It is the larger picture of not trusting the half truths that run rampant with NDP's. I understand they probably have contracts and can't release the source but they also do well for themselves amongst non-connoisseurs insinuating that they have made the bourbon or rye inside. I say this all and I still enjoy buying Willett products, mostly because I think they do put out stuff I enjoy and not because I trust a single thing they say.

As a qualifier, Smooth Ambler and High West are not included in this misleading marketing about their source.


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flahute
04-14-2014, 19:34
Sku retweeted Kulsveen's tweet, and since Kulsveen is Willett, that's info straight from the source. So basically Willett is saying, "we don't know who started this rumor that you can tell it's a wheater by the font on the label, but it's not true and we should should know since we bottled the stuff."

So, despite this being on the internet, it's straight from the source so that carries some water, no?

squire
04-14-2014, 19:40
Still doesn't tell us a darn thing about what it is though.

MyOldKyDram
04-14-2014, 19:42
Would still like to hear any insight or recollections on where the wheater info originally came from.

Old Dusty
04-14-2014, 20:00
Would still like to hear any insight or recollections on where the wheater info originally came from.

Think it was that "Alden" guy who posted about 8,000 times in three weeks than disappeared. Or Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Ejmharris
04-14-2014, 20:00
Sku retweeted Kulsveen's tweet, and since Kulsveen is Willett, that's info straight from the source. So basically Willett is saying, "we don't know who started this rumor that you can tell it's a wheater by the font on the label, but it's not true and we should should know since we bottled the stuff."

So, despite this being on the internet, it's straight from the source so that carries some water, no?

I don't know Drew at all so I will have to take him for his word that the labeling doesn't matter. I do think it is telling that no info is given about when the wheat or rye bourbons were bottled. It is a product you have no idea what is in it except for how old it is. Which is exactly the problem with NDP's for many people, including myself.


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WAINWRIGHT
04-14-2014, 20:03
Would still like to hear any insight or recollections on where the wheater info originally came from.I would as well,because you sure had me fooled.Wheater vs. Rye there were obviously multiple sources as I have had bottles with great variation I never made any reference to the label though.

TomH
04-14-2014, 20:43
Would still like to hear any insight or recollections on where the wheater info originally came from.

My memory is not 100% trustworthy as I get older and have killed my brain cells from this hobby but to the best of my recollection.....When KBD released the wheated version of Vintage 17 someone noted that the print font on the newly released bottles were different than the earlier bottles. Have not had the opportunity to talk with Drew since this came out (and not sure if he would be willing to add any more info), but what I guessing is that the story is that the potential exists that some wheat may have been released in bottles prior to the label change or since the wheated Vintage 17 was released KBD may have had additional releases that may have contained rye bourbon. All I know is that the bottles I purchased were confirmed to be wheated bourbon by a KBD representative.

sku
04-14-2014, 21:11
So I had posted something on the LA Whiskey Society site showing the difference between the script and regular print back label and explaining that was the way to tell the difference. Drew linked to that site and Tweeted, "FYI, If you think you can tell the difference between the Rye vs Wheat version by the label you're plain wrong." I replied, asking him if there was any way to tell the difference, and he said "only way to tell is just by taste."

My guess is that the script changed around the same time that the wheater came out, which led to the conventional wisdom, but since then, they may have changed recipes without making any change to the script, but that's just conjecture.

WAINWRIGHT
04-14-2014, 21:17
This makes perfect sense and an undefinable timeline to which the stocks truly changed from a ryed mashbill to a wheated.

squire
04-14-2014, 22:05
If they ever changed, or were mixed together, or the sources changed. The only thing KBD has stated (on the label) is that the whisky is 17 years old.

MauiSon
04-15-2014, 03:00
Darn, felt so secure I had the wheated version and now it's all up-in-the-air. At least I know how much I paid for it, more or less.

MyOldKyDram
04-15-2014, 04:03
Thanks for the info, fellas. The timeline, or lack of a coherent one, makes sense I suppose. Oh well. I've liked the ones I've had well enough regardless of what's inside. And I got them all for a more than fair price. Here's hoping I like the ones I have put back.

Old Dusty
04-15-2014, 05:46
Has anyone mentioned the "hang tags"? That along with the font were supposedly the wheated tells. The bottles I have were all bought together and have the straight font and the paper neck tags. And the one I opened and shared was certainly a wheated bourbon. If the font was coincidental to the wheated run then so be it. But if I can't trust the neck tags I just don't know what I believe in anymore.:cool:

MyOldKyDram
04-15-2014, 05:54
Think I'll take the hang tags off of mine and go put them on random KBD bottles at the store. :/

Old Dusty
04-15-2014, 06:01
Think I'll take the hang tags off of mine and go put them on random KBD bottles at the store. :/

Better yet put them on Jefferson's Ocean bottles or Old Blowhard.

Ejmharris
04-15-2014, 07:26
... "only way to tell is just by taste."

Can we change the V17 reference to this one as the Mystery Dum Dum Sucker 17. The only way to tell is the taste. Maybe even MDDS17.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/15/u9y8a4yt.jpg
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Josh
04-15-2014, 07:32
Can we change the V17 reference to this one as the Mystery Dum Dum Sucker 17.

No, "Mystery DumDum Sucker" is already my nickname.

Ejmharris
04-15-2014, 07:38
No, "Mystery DumDum Sucker" is already my nickname.

Made me lol in the middle of a work meeting.


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gblick
04-22-2014, 10:39
Are they still releasing new bottles of V17? I haven't seen any in a couple of years it seems.

Kwats7
04-23-2014, 15:54
Are they still releasing new bottles of V17? I haven't seen any in a couple of years it seems.

it was discontinued, and probably won't be coming back (though I hope i'm proven wrong).

The Black Tot
04-23-2014, 22:14
Before I had a taste for bourbon, I can still remember it sitting six deep on shelves at even the lesser Spec's stores in Houston.

Nobody had any idea it was that limited or special.

I had a bottle of it for friends when they came over. I still remember them hammering through it one night.

Ah, inexperience...

tbt

Smithford
04-24-2014, 13:02
Are they still releasing new bottles of V17? I haven't seen any in a couple of years it seems.
It actually looks to me like they've retired the brand. There hasn't been a new release of any "Vintage" product (with that bottle or label) in a few years. And it's not featured on the KBD/Willet website either.

The Black Tot
04-24-2014, 13:23
It actually looks to me like they've retired the brand. There hasn't been a new release of any "Vintage" product (with that bottle or label) in a few years. And it's not featured on the KBD/Willet website either.

Last October when I visited Willett they had a 25 or 30 yr rye with the Vintage label (although it was reddish instead of green). I think I remember it was $250.

This March they again had a 20+ year rye at the gift shop. Not Vintage. $350.

This bubble ain't burst yet, 'twould seem.

tbt

bingstein
04-24-2014, 14:33
Last October when I visited Willett they had a 25 or 30 yr rye with the Vintage label (although it was reddish instead of green). I think I remember it was $250.

This March they again had a 20+ year rye at the gift shop. Not Vintage. $350.

This bubble ain't burst yet, 'twould seem.

tbt

They had Vintage 23 rye in the gift shop last fall.

The Black Tot
04-24-2014, 21:30
They had Vintage 23 rye in the gift shop last fall.

That must have been the one. I haven't been much of a rye guy, so my details aren't that clear.

tbt

wildrnesxperienc
04-25-2014, 01:58
I was there last spring and they had Vintage Rye 23 for $200 I think, and Willett Family Estate 25 year rye for $250. Yikes. Reviews of them that I've seen are lukewarm at best too.

nd2005
04-27-2014, 12:16
I think they "unretire" them just for the gift shop. They had 17 year for $200 when a friend of mine went there. They said they "found" a few bottles...I believed that story as much as I believe in the Orphan Barrels...

squire
04-27-2014, 12:19
The way they talk you'd think those barrels roll around on their own.

wildrnesxperienc
04-27-2014, 14:27
The way they talk you'd think those barrels roll around on their own.

Hahaha! That's hilarious and so true.

wildrnesxperienc
04-27-2014, 23:46
And wow, Vintage 17 for $200?? Damn.

petrel800
04-28-2014, 13:52
There was one on a shelf in Bardstown this weekend for 209 I believe. It was still on the shelf after I left as well.