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Waiahi
05-03-2013, 14:22
Aloha my fellow Whiskey hounds,

I was reading this thread: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19953-How-much-and-how-often-do-you-drink and was about to reply to it, but then decided this was a topic I wanted to cover that deserves it's own. Some folks in that thread were surprised at how most folks on this forum don't really drink that much whiskey as they thought.

It doesn't surprise me.

This is a forum of aficionados. We collect a multitude of variety, we like different taste experiences, and most here don't like to get drunk. (despite my sig, which is just a funny joke my buds and I used to tell each other in college), I don't like to get drunk either. But I sure do like to get a moderate, relaxing buzz.

I think most folks here are the quality over quantity valued folks. I may not post much, but I read pretty regularly. I "know" most of the regulars around here, and I doubt there is a true, out of control alcoholic amongst this fine assemblage of Whiskey enthusiasts.

But even amongst the temperate, occasional drinkers (2 or 3 drams a night drinkers is NOT abusive), there is this vague unease with the potential health effects we may suffer from enjoying our hobby here.

I'm here to try and help you set your mind at ease.

The abuse of alcohol gives any level of alcohol consumption a bad reputation. But the studies that get conducted time after time, in different countries with different populations around the world are conclusive:

The Daily Moderate Consumption of Alcohol is GOOD FOR YOU.

It is MEDICINE. Like any other medicine, the difference between health benefits or health detriments is a matter of dosage.

Furthermore, you can't let legal definitions and one-size-fits-all pronouncements from the Government and Health Authorities determine for you whether your damaging yourself or not. (.08 BAC is legally drunk?!?!? For a 180 lbs. man who's been drinking over over a decade? Puhleaze!)

We all have different tolerance levels, size, weight, and drinking rituals.

For me, I say you really have to know yourself. A hangover, even a mild one, indicates you've overdosed on the medicine. Too many overdoses of medication is bad for your health, OF COURSE. Most people don't really think about it, but overdosing on Tylenol will destroy your liver faster than drinking a pint of whiskey a day.

But I digress.

If you drink your personal tolerance level of alcohol on a regular basis, get a good buzz, and awake the next morning without a hangover...you've figured out the correct dosage of this life extending medicine.

And I'm not just using hyperbole here.

Check out these links, which form the basis for my contention here:

http://merzenich.positscience.com/2009/03/moderate-drinking-and-longevity/

"I have earlier described evidence from a large British study that identified a positive impact of the moderate consumption of alcohol on longevity — in their case, apparently adding about 1.5 years to a lifespan. Now, from my own university comes another large, careful study that supports this conclusion, while doing a little better job of eliminating other possible factors that might account for this longevity benefit."

http://drpinna.com/alcohol-the-worlds-best-medicine-part-ii-20839

"Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages (beer, wine and distilled spirits or liquor) are generally less likely to suffer strokes, diabetes, arthritis, enlarged prostate, dementia (including Alzheimer’s disease), and several major cancers."

https://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=8014&Section=AGING

"BOSTON - (March 3, 2009) In an epidemiological study of men and post-menopausal women primarily over 60 years of age, regular moderate alcohol intake was associated with greater bone mineral density (BMD). Researchers at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging (USDA HNRCA) at Tufts University found associations were strongest for beer and wine and, importantly, BMD was significantly lower in men drinking more than two servings of liquor per day. The results suggest that regular moderate consumption of beer or wine may have protective effects on bone, but that heavy drinking may contribute to bone loss (see also Tufts University, Health Sciences)."

Like any medicine, DOSAGE is the key.

So take heart my friends. Absolve yourself of the guilt, quit beating yourself up and think that any level of alcohol consumption is "bad" for your health. That's simply not true.

If you're drinking to the point of even a mild hangover....well, you're overdoing your dosage. Find your proper level of tolerance and enjoy our noble hobby without guilt or fear.

Temperate imbibers live longer then both heavy drinkers AND teetotalers!

Stay thirsty my friends. :cool:

Alden
05-03-2013, 14:34
My father never drank any alcohol in his life.

Dead from a heart attack at 42.

I'm 55, and I feel pretty good most of the time. :)

squire
05-03-2013, 14:39
My doctor said I could have one drink a day so I got a bigger glass.

Alden
05-03-2013, 14:43
My doctor said I could have one drink a day so I got a bigger glass.

You are actually Rodney Dangerfield, aren't you?

squire
05-03-2013, 14:48
I could've said one bottle one serving.

Alden
05-03-2013, 15:04
2-4 drinks a day for the average man.

Looks like I might live for ever.

Jono
05-03-2013, 15:24
Aloha my fellow Whiskey hounds,

I was reading this thread: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19953-How-much-and-how-often-do-you-drink and was about to reply to it, but then decided this was a topic I wanted to cover that deserves it's own. Some folks in that thread were surprised at how most folks on this forum don't really drink that much whiskey as they thought.

It doesn't surprise me.

This is a forum of aficionados. We collect a multitude of variety, we like different taste experiences, and most here don't like to get drunk. (despite my sig, which is just a funny joke my buds and I used to tell each other in college), I don't like to get drunk either. But I sure do like to get a moderate, relaxing buzz.

I think most folks here are the quality over quantity valued folks. I may not post much, but I read pretty regularly. I "know" most of the regulars around here, and I doubt there is a true, out of control alcoholic amongst this fine assemblage of Whiskey enthusiasts.

But even amongst the temperate, occasional drinkers (2 or 3 drams a night drinkers is NOT abusive), there is this vague unease with the potential health effects we may suffer from enjoying our hobby here.

I'm here to try and help you set your mind at ease.

The abuse of alcohol gives any level of alcohol consumption a bad reputation. But the studies that get conducted time after time, in different countries with different populations around the world are conclusive:

The Daily Moderate Consumption of Alcohol is GOOD FOR YOU.

It is MEDICINE. Like any other medicine, the difference between health benefits or health detriments is a matter of dosage.

Furthermore, you can't let legal definitions and one-size-fits-all pronouncements from the Government and Health Authorities determine for you whether your damaging yourself or not. (.08 BAC is legally drunk?!?!? For a 180 lbs. man who's been drinking over over a decade? Puhleaze!)

We all have different tolerance levels, size, weight, and drinking rituals.

For me, I say you really have to know yourself. A hangover, even a mild one, indicates you've overdosed on the medicine. Too many overdoses of medication is bad for your health, OF COURSE. Most people don't really think about it, but overdosing on Tylenol will destroy your liver faster than drinking a pint of whiskey a day.

But I digress.

If you drink your personal tolerance level of alcohol on a regular basis, get a good buzz, and awake the next morning without a hangover...you've figured out the correct dosage of this life extending medicine.

And I'm not just using hyperbole here.

Check out these links, which form the basis for my contention here:

http://merzenich.positscience.com/2009/03/moderate-drinking-and-longevity/

"I have earlier described evidence from a large British study that identified a positive impact of the moderate consumption of alcohol on longevity — in their case, apparently adding about 1.5 years to a lifespan. Now, from my own university comes another large, careful study that supports this conclusion, while doing a little better job of eliminating other possible factors that might account for this longevity benefit."

http://drpinna.com/alcohol-the-worlds-best-medicine-part-ii-20839

"Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages (beer, wine and distilled spirits or liquor) are generally less likely to suffer strokes, diabetes, arthritis, enlarged prostate, dementia (including Alzheimer’s disease), and several major cancers."

https://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=8014&Section=AGING

"BOSTON - (March 3, 2009) In an epidemiological study of men and post-menopausal women primarily over 60 years of age, regular moderate alcohol intake was associated with greater bone mineral density (BMD). Researchers at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging (USDA HNRCA) at Tufts University found associations were strongest for beer and wine and, importantly, BMD was significantly lower in men drinking more than two servings of liquor per day. The results suggest that regular moderate consumption of beer or wine may have protective effects on bone, but that heavy drinking may contribute to bone loss (see also Tufts University, Health Sciences)."

Like any medicine, DOSAGE is the key.

So take heart my friends. Absolve yourself of the guilt, quit beating yourself up and think that any level of alcohol consumption is "bad" for your health. That's simply not true.

If you're drinking to the point of even a mild hangover....well, you're overdoing your dosage. Find your proper level of tolerance and enjoy our noble hobby without guilt or fear.

Temperate imbibers live longer then both heavy drinkers AND teetotalers!

Stay thirsty my friends. :cool:

Agree - quality over quantity.

From the study you linked:

"... 50% fewer moderate drinkers (equivalent to 1-2 glasses of wine/day) had died than did those who either drank less, or more. "
1 gl wine = 1 to 1.5 oz drinks of liquor depending on the proof.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

Guidelines for moderate alcohol use

The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend that if you choose to drink alcohol you do so only in moderation — up to one drink a day for women or two drinks a day for men.

Examples of one drink include:
Beer: 12 fluid ounces (355 milliliters)
Wine: 5 fluid ounces (148 milliliters)
Distilled spirits (80 proof): 1.5 fluid ounces (44 milliliters)

Don't forget the adverse combo of smoking and alcohol.

So yes, moderation....but moderation means certain amounts...not made up ones. Yes, there is some variability as we are all different
sizes and such estimates are for the "average" person, but unless you are way above average moderation as defined is something to keep in mind.

If your liver functions are elevated, you have fatty liver, esophageal reflux, gout, poor family history for oral/digestive/liver/pancreatic/breast cancer, smoke, cardiac issues, diabetes, hypertension etc. it might behoove you to drastically moderate to light or none....just sayin.

http://www.scienceinpublic.com.au/media-releases/heavydrinkers

“We still do not understand why only a proportion of moderate to heavy drinkers get liver cirrhosis,” says Dr Devanshi Seth, from the Royal Prince Alfred (RPA) Hospital’s Drug Health Services and the Centenary Institute who conceived and now leads the project.

“Nothing so far has been able to explain the unpredictability of why some people get cirrhosis and others who drink equal amounts don’t,” she says.

http://www.liverfoundation.org/abouttheliver/info/alcohol/

Between 10 and 20 percent of heavy drinkers develop cirrhosis.
Up to 35 percent of heavy drinkers develop alcoholic hepatitis.

Maybe in the not too distant future a genetic profile will allow you to know your risk with confidence.

MauiSon
05-03-2013, 18:28
One drink adds life, two drinks add fun, three drinks - whoa, let's not get carried away!

squire
05-03-2013, 18:36
I like to have a martini
Two at the very most . . .
After three I'm under the table,
After four I'm under my host.

Dorothy Parker

BigBoldBully
05-03-2013, 20:25
Often I almost forget to drink and have to make myself go back downstairs and pour something for the health benefits.

squire
05-03-2013, 20:47
I occasionally have to remind myself as well.

Special Reserve
05-04-2013, 05:01
Often I almost forget to drink and have to make myself go back downstairs and pour something for the health benefits.

I solved that problem by buying a ranch. You could also keep a bottle and glass in the master bathroom.

squire
05-04-2013, 08:15
A small fridge is a useful bedroom accessory.

Waiahi
05-04-2013, 14:56
Agree - quality over quantity.

Guidelines for moderate alcohol use

The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend that if you choose to drink alcohol you do so only in moderation — up to one drink a day for women or two drinks a day for men.

Examples of one drink include:
Beer: 12 fluid ounces (355 milliliters)
Wine: 5 fluid ounces (148 milliliters)
Distilled spirits (80 proof): 1.5 fluid ounces (44 milliliters)

Don't forget the adverse combo of smoking and alcohol.

So yes, moderation....but moderation means certain amounts...not made up ones. Yes, there is some variability as we are all different
sizes and such estimates are for the "average" person, but unless you are way above average moderation as defined is something to keep in mind.

Which is precisely my point..keep in mind I'm advocating for careful self-monitoring and purposeful imbibing, rather than simply following arbitrary, one-size fits all recommendations by authorities. I think most veteran imbibers who are not binge drunkards intuitively figure out just how much is enough without going over the line.

I drank 4 Pales Ales (7.2%) and 2 drams of Ardbeg 10yr/92p SMS last night. Going by official figures and guidelines, I "abused alcohol" last night. Any doctor or so-called health expert will tell you that 6 drinks in a 24 hr. period is NOT moderate. Yet I feel exactly ZERO symptoms of a hangover this morning. I think I drank the perfect moderate amount of medicine last night! :lol:

Of course, I didn't sit their and pound all six drinks in an hour or so, like I was getting wasted at a frat party. I drank all of that over a 8 hour period, had a solid meal (grilled steak, smoked wild boar, chicken sausage, rice and veggies) at the mid point of the evening and also drank a couple of glasses of water. I was pleasantly tipsy when I went to bed. Feeling just fine today, loving life and already contemplating the Bourbon I plan on consuming tonight.



If your liver functions are elevated, you have fatty liver, esophageal reflux, gout, poor family history for oral/digestive/liver/pancreatic/breast cancer, smoke, cardiac issues, diabetes, hypertension etc. it might behoove you to drastically moderate to light or none....just sayin.


Of course. This should be common sense to any thinking man!



“We still do not understand why only a proportion of moderate to heavy drinkers get liver cirrhosis,” says Dr Devanshi Seth, from the Royal Prince Alfred (RPA) Hospital’s Drug Health Services and the Centenary Institute who conceived and now leads the project.

“Nothing so far has been able to explain the unpredictability of why some people get cirrhosis and others who drink equal amounts don’t,” she says.

Between 10 and 20 percent of heavy drinkers develop cirrhosis.
Up to 35 percent of heavy drinkers develop alcoholic hepatitis.

Maybe in the not too distant future a genetic profile will allow you to know your risk with confidence.

This is pure, unadulterated Bovine Dung.

I know the answer, and I'll tell it to you right now: it's your diet! More specifically, about the kind of fats you eat.

----
Check out this PubMed abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=J%20Am%20Coll%20Nutr%2C%20Aug%201994%2 C%2013%284%29%3A338-43):


OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to determine the effects of saturated fatty acid (SFA) and unsaturated fatty acid (UFA) diets on ethanol pharmacokinetics.

METHODS: Sprague-Dawley male rats were fed modified AIN76 diets containing 10% coconut oil (SFA) or corn oil (UFA) for 120 days. A single dose (3 g/kg bw) of ethanol (13% solution) was orally administered using a gastric canula on day 30, 90, 105 and 120. Tail vein blood samples were collected at various intervals following ethanol dose and were analyzed for blood-ethanol concentration (BEC).

RESULTS: Compared to the UFA group (corn oil fed), the SFA group (coconut oil fed) exhibited significantly higher BEC, larger area under the curve, longer half-life of ethanol, and lower rates of ethanol elimination.

CONCLUSION: Dietary SFA protects liver from alcohol injury by retarding ethanol metabolism, and carnitine may be involved.



Corn oil is a PUFA - poly-unsaturated fatty acid....just like much of the oil used in most processed foods, fast foods, convenience foods and even high end restaurants. Soybean, Canola, Cottonseed, Safflower oil...these are the PUFA's that are toxic to your liver. Read the ingredients on your candy bars, packaged cakes and pastries, hamburger and hotdog buns, flour tortillas, sandwich breads, potato chips, tortilla chips, crackers, vending machine snack foods, your salad dressings, microwave dinners, canned foods, condiments like mayo etc. They are all full of PUFA oils.

Worse yet is the partially hydrogenated oils that are also commonly used in all processed foods. Combine that with fructose - which is also toxic to the liver in high enough concentrations - like drinking all that High Fructose Corn Syrup in sodas and juices every day - and you have a recipe for fatty liver. Now combine that diet of bad oils and excess fructose (i.e. eating regular amounts of fruit will hardly damage your liver), with excessive alcoholic consumption, you get cirrhosis.

Coconut oil is a saturated fatty acid (you know, that stuff that's been demonized for the last few decades as a heart disease vector) that is protective of your liver (and heart).

But it's not just coconut oil that protects your liver, it's other saturated fats like butter, palm oil, lard and tallow that not only protect a liver, but can actually heal the damage done to liver from bad diet.

Check out this PubMed Abstract too (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Nanji%2C%20A%20A%2C%20et%20al%2C%20Gas troenterology%2C%20Aug%201995%2C%20109%282%29%3A54 7-54):

CONCLUSION: A diet enriched in saturated but not unsaturated fatty acids reversed alcoholic liver injury.


Here's another one...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11602676

"Dietary saturated fatty acids reverse inflammatory and fibrotic changes in rat liver despite continued ethanol administration."


TL;DR version:

If you have a healthy diet and don't eat processed foods full of PUFA oils, and instead eat healthy natural sources of saturated fatty acids - especially the saturated fatty acids rich in medium chain triglycerides like coconut or palm oil - you will have almost zero chance of experiencing health problems with the moderate consumption of alcohol.

AaronWF
05-04-2013, 16:51
As for all this, "If you're not hungover, you didn't over do it," sentiment, I find that when I go for periods of time without drinking, I only need a drink or two to feel the affects the next morning. Now, while I'm in a period of regularly drinking moderate-to-large amounts of whiskey, I have to really go out of my way to drink enough to feel sick the next day. This is because alcohol is addictive.

Seriously, I feel more hungover when I don't drink. The cells in my body have made up a bed for mr. ethanol and when he doesn't show up to crash there for the night, they are mighty hurt.

Marijuana is medicine. Heroin is medicine. MDMA is medicine. All drugs are medicine if you use them for medicinal purposes. Vice and virtue go hand in hand, so I believe it behooves us consumers enthusiastic about the joys we find in our particular drug of choice to not try too hard to rationalize our use of it.

squire
05-04-2013, 17:00
I think I'll go have a drink.

mosugoji64
05-05-2013, 21:52
I think I'll go have a drink.

Think I'll join you :grin: