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VAGentleman
08-20-2013, 20:09
A friend bought a bottle of this down in TN. We tasted it tonight beside an Angelo Luchessi to see if there is any difference since they are both 90 proof. From what we were told and read the Sinatra barrel had grooves cut into the barrels to give the whiskey more surface area to interact with. These barrels were then mingled with regular Jack barrels. The SS definitely had a bigger flavor to it than the Luchessi. It had the Jack flavor but amplified more. Some char some burn and a little vanilla mixed in. A long finish. The Luchessi was similar but not as in your face. There isn't any of the nuttiness or maple syrup of the Single Barrel or Silver Select. This is pretty good stuff and stands out above regular Jack for sure but definitely not worth $150. I'm glad I didn't buy it but also glad I got to try it

Gillman
08-20-2013, 20:59
Good review, thanks. (Never heard of the groove thing, interesting. To me Jack has enough wood character, I'm surprised they would want to insert more).

Gary

silverfish
08-21-2013, 14:48
... but definitely not worth $150.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

The cost is what stops me from getting a bottle of the Sinatra. I don't mind picking up the
occasional 90 proofer special JD but this price is just too out there. I'm hoping for a big
price drop in the future to clear the shelves and maybe I'll grab some then.

squire
08-23-2013, 14:55
Somebody has to pay for the expansion.

onemorepour
08-31-2013, 23:52
This stuffs running at least $400 a bottle down under, have seen it up to $799. If anyones actually stupid enough to buy it (and i think they are - thank you mining boom) JD will have no worries affording a couple extra storeys on their expansion.

deathevocation
09-11-2013, 06:44
Saw it duty free for $170. Kidding themselves. Bought four litres of Old N7 for $140 instead.

onemorepour
09-11-2013, 22:45
4 litres....that magic amount is so bad that its good

Gillman
10-19-2013, 06:55
Finally got to try it. Very dry, sandy in texture, lots of wood, just a touch of JD flavor. Not in same league as SB. Not as good as regular Jack Daniels IMO. Disappointing.

Gary

tmckenzie
10-21-2013, 05:52
Interesting about the groove thing. I know some micros are doing this, some even do a honeycomb pattern of holes in the staves. Not for me. Just use a good barrel with air seasoned wood and a heavy char. The best coming out of JD now for some reason is the green label. And since this is the youngest stuff, what a little bird told me about them adding a shit ton, that is more tan a regular ton by the way, of copper to their doubler, must be true. This stuff reminds me of JD that had gone by the wayside. This stuff is wonderful. I bought a half gallon of it this weekend. Way better than the black label right now.

Gillman
10-21-2013, 14:46
Interesting. But wouldn't the Jack Black be doubled in the same equipment..?

Gary

P.S. The groove thing just doesn't sound right to me, it sounds like it's altering too much the traditional process. At any rate, I cannot see how it improved the whisky (Sinatra release) in this instance.

WhiskyToWhiskey
10-23-2013, 09:31
Interesting notes. In about 3 years time the Jack Daniel's rye will be ready...I'm really curious how that will turn out, and the process it will go through before bottling.

tmckenzie
10-24-2013, 04:46
Interesting. But wouldn't the Jack Black be doubled in the same equipment..?

Gary

P.S. The groove thing just doesn't sound right to me, it sounds like it's altering too much the traditional process. At any rate, I cannot see how it improved the whisky (Sinatra release) in this instance. yes, bit if I am not mistaken black label is older. Made before the change.this green label is on the money.

WhiskyToWhiskey
10-24-2013, 05:17
Interesting about the green label being so good. On the JD website green label is said to be aged not as long, and aged in the bottom of the warehouse where temp fluctuations are less.

Gillman
10-24-2013, 05:47
I must get some then. One of the things I find about JD is an odd woodiness about it, and I wonder if this comes from the prior toasting gives the barrels (if I am not mistaken), either that or maybe the flushing of the barrels to extract alcohol resident in the wood frame. This woodiness was noticed by Michael Jackson in his late 1980's World Guide To Beer. The flushing method wasn't used then IIRC so perhaps it is the other thing, the prior toasting. Or maybe there is another explanation. But all this to say, I always thought JD would taste better with less wood in it, one reason being it is so low-rye. Anyway this is why too I was let down by the Sinatra release since by scoring the barrels it seems to me even more wood is imparted to the palate.

The Green would have less wood in it and that's a good thing especially if more copper is being used, which would improve overall spirit quality surely.

I've kind of become a Jack fan in recent years and always look for the "best" Jack palate. Once I made a vatting of all the expressions then available (about 10 years ago) and received cheers from some good judges of whisky.

Gary

silverfish
10-24-2013, 10:10
Well, so much for that price drop I was hoping for. I received an e-mail from an
area store announcing the "extremely limited" Sinatra bottle will be available in
Nov. for $195. per bottle. No up front cost for anyone wishing to reserve now.

squire
10-24-2013, 16:07
This one wasn't really on my list but I'm disappointed to hear it's not as special as the promotion promotes.

MyOldKyDram
10-24-2013, 16:09
Wasn't planning on picking up any JD, but durned if y'all didn't make the green label sound good.

squire
10-24-2013, 16:20
Me too, I quit buying JD black for my own use years ago but the green is sounding attractive.

jaycamm
10-24-2013, 20:00
Every time I've opened a bottle of Green Label it doesn't last very long.


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Gillman
12-21-2013, 13:59
Today downtown at an LCBO tasting counter I sampled this again and the result was 180 degrees from my experience with a sample taken from a bottle sold in Europe. That one was charcoaly, kind of short, lots of flavours but nothing that stood out (for me) as special.

This current one was rich and rounded with a supple texture and fine glints from the rye and corn (that "perfumed" taste some very good straight whiskey has).

I always say every bottle (no matter what brand almost) is different to the last and with the small batches that surely went into this bottling, that must be true even more so here.

A real winner and one of the best straight whiskeys I've ever had - I'm not exaggerating.

Gary

Gillman
12-21-2013, 16:24
Reading up further on what they've done for the Sinatra, apparently the interior staves or some of them were grooved at regular intervals to expose more (uncharred) wood - I saw a picture and it looked like a an evenly ribbed piece of wood with the ribs black and the exposed wood white between each rib.

Now, to me, this surely has the effect of reducing the red layer unless extra ribbed staves were suspended down into the barrel and the regular barrel staves were charred in the usual way. Since it is whiskey not bourbon, not all the cask has to be charred in the usual way although they may well have done it that way. I understand too these special barrels were mingled with Old No. 7 so the Sinatra whiskey is not purely from the jerry-rig system.

Anyway, the bottle I had today was superb. I may buy it now, but I hope the next one is as good as the one I tasted today..

Gary

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-21-2013, 18:51
I want to try a sample from the LCBO tasting towers. Tough for me to pull the trigger on a bottle...for the same price I can buy a case of JD Single Barrel.

MyOldKyDram
12-21-2013, 18:54
Is that the new "case of Barton"?

portwood
12-21-2013, 19:46
Anyway, the bottle I had today was superb. I may buy it now, but I hope the next one is as good as the one I tasted today..
Gary
I don't doubt its superb, but 300 Dollars? Really? You'll spend that kind of coin on a single bottle of bourbon (albeit a 1L bottle)?

Wow, I'll be walking across the street from the office on Monday afternoon to the Summerhill tasting bar to check it out.

Gillman
12-21-2013, 20:10
Summerhill is where I tasted it. LIkely it will be the same bottle I tasted from, since they said it was just put on and it is 1 litre.

No way I'll pay that price. I was thinking of U.S. duty free when I next get the chance, it will be 50% less.

It was $4.00 per half ounce and I had 1 ounce. Well worth it. Johnnie Blue was the same price.

Gary

squire
12-21-2013, 20:17
Is that the new "case of Barton"?

The answer to that question is yet to be determined.

JohnHansell
12-22-2013, 14:11
...Anyway, the bottle I had today was superb. I may buy it now, but I hope the next one is as good as the one I tasted today..
Gary

Gary, maybe my bottle was from a different batch than yours, but the effect of the stave treatment in what I am reviewing overdoes it a bit. A little too much for me for balance--especially on the finish.

John

squire
12-22-2013, 14:41
That's very interesting John, I hadn't read that take on it.

Gillman
12-22-2013, 14:46
John's opinion has to be taken seriously, and I have no doubt of his advice based on that sample. However, the bottle I had yesterday, and I had another ounce today to confirm the experience, was magisterial. I'm sorry the Squire, John, and other cognoscenti weren't in situ to appreciate. One day this will happen I believe, perhaps though at an elevation which even NASA's rockets don't aim for…

Gary

squire
12-22-2013, 14:49
That's what I like about you Gary, you think big.

Gillman
12-22-2013, 14:55
Well, vertically anyway, which is being an optimist, especially in this line of business. :)

Gary

T Comp
12-22-2013, 15:13
Of course anecdotal to actual sales but observed at two separate stores the sale of one each today. I, with the aid of my daughter, as I'm still on crutches and can't get down to sort through the bottom shelf, was at said stores in search of a 100 proof bib whiskey priced at $13.99 that still has a verb before 6 and a noun after :grin:.

squire
12-22-2013, 16:06
That's hardcore Thad, proof you can't keep a good man down.

Gillman
12-22-2013, 16:47
Yes, and a good chance to wish again a rapid recovery, Thad, from this medical intervention.

Gary

JohnHansell
12-22-2013, 17:11
John's opinion has to be taken seriously, and I have no doubt of his advice based on that sample. However, the bottle I had yesterday, and I had another ounce today to confirm the experience, was magisterial. I'm sorry the Squire, John, and other cognoscenti weren't in situ to appreciate. One day this will happen I believe, perhaps though at an elevation which even NASA's rockets don't aim for…

Gary

Gary, the only thing that matters is that you like what you have. I spiked mine with some JD Single Barrel I have, and all is one with the world. Cheers!

Gillman
12-22-2013, 18:06
Interesting, and mingling is (frequently) second nature to me, as are its close cousins vatting and blending.

Portwood, since you will be at Summerhill LCBO tomorrow, maybe you would be good enough to see if the bottle (almost full today so there is no question it will be the same one) has any batch or other number on it, something of a kind to suggest not all the bottles were made from one batch. Just for the fun of it it would be interesting to know. Certainly the sample I had from the bottle obtained in Europe seemed rather different than this current one..

Of course even if this is the case, it is all good since it emphasizes the artisan-like approach for this kind of special edition. I'd rather a product with interesting and usually not grand differences rather than something consistently brilliant in the same way.

Gary

portwood
12-23-2013, 13:00
Hi Gary,
140123413B
4419653

I can't guarantee the code on the sampling bottle is the same since I could not find a number on it. The above code is from a full, sister bottle, that is on display in the sampling room. the code was on the inside of the front label but I could not see evidence of a printed code in the same place on the sampling bottle.

I can't say I'm an expert on anything bourbon in general, or JD in particular, but if I had tasted it blind there is no way I would have picked JD. If pressed, I would have said it was a pot still whiskey - probably Irish. Although the sample was small I would say it is EXCELLENT whisky - too bad about the $300 tag.

By co-incidence I met a guy I follow on twitter that was also trying it and he commented that it must contain older JD whiskies. We both commented on the oily texture of the liquid. The lack of alcohol burn would suggest an older whisky but the wood notes are balanced - which would suggest to me it might not be that old.

Anyway, Thanks for the tip, I don't think I would have tried it if you hadn't pointed to its quality.
Cheers

Gillman
12-23-2013, 13:45
Thanks in turn for all this information, excellent. All your comments resonate with me including viz. the pot still-like, oily quality (oiliness contributes to the smooth finish, also there was an interesting copper-like quality, which is where the Irish comes in). It's a grand one, really.

The Gazebo crowd would love it.

Gary

portwood
12-23-2013, 18:37
Thanks in turn for all this information, excellent. All your comments resonate with me including viz. the pot still-like, oily quality (oiliness contributes to the smooth finish, also there was an interesting copper-like quality, which is where the Irish comes in). It's a grand one, really.

The Gazebo crowd would love it.

Gary
You're welcome.

I see it sells for about $150 (half the lcbo price) at Binny's. Even though its good & a 1L bottle I still think its steep. There are many other quality bourbons for far less.

Gillman
12-24-2013, 02:24
Surely a good part of the price must be due to the luxury packaging. I wish a version was made available in a plainer package…

Gary

portwood
12-24-2013, 06:03
It's an interesting observation, Gary. From limited experience what I have observed is that American whisky has stayed away from the Scotch over-packaging syndrome. They tend to be more creative with the bottle itself but avoid the boxes/tubes/velvet etc. The sad reality is that American companies may have caught on to the idea that by adding a dollar or two of crap surrounding the bottle they can increase the price by a factor of 10 or 20 of the cost of the extra packaging.

Gillman
12-24-2013, 06:46
This could be. Hopefully though this grooved barrel thing will become a regular offering in a plainer package. I will try to get a bottle in U.S. Duty Free when next there and hopefully it will be the same as or close to this Toronto bottle we tried. If as I think now must have occurred, the grooving was in part of the regular barrel staves (not additional ones suspended into the whiskey), I'd think they would get less red layer because the non-charred parts have no red layer. The bare oak wood would touch the spirit and impart its character which may again explain part of the pot still Irish-like effect (a raw grains, mostly, whiskey aged in a non-charred or at least reused charred barrel). I think this is good for Jack since it is subjected to charring/heating 3 times: 1) the leaching through maple charcoal; 2) the storage in a (still largely) charred barrel, factoring too this is a blend of pure Sinatra and Old No. 7; and 3) the Jack barrels undergo some kind of preliminary toasting, not a charring to be sure but some kind of heat treatment IIRC. So all this wood treatment probably contributes to the charcoaly taste Jack has and if you drop it down a notch, no pun intended, maybe that works an interesting change to the whiskey. Or not. Anyway, quite a bottle that was at Summerhill in Toronto. For the crowd: Summerhill is named after a train station and a train still travels over a bridge whose rail bed extends over what is now the liquor store. It is a very pretty building, restored some years ago by an inspired urban renewal plan.

Gary

Gillman
12-24-2013, 06:53
Our Summerhill LCBO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:View_of_south_facade_of_Summerhill_North_Toro nto_CPR_station.jpg

On the page from which the image is taken you can see how the station looked originally and it is remarkably the same to the restoration achieved some years ago.

Gary

corpse_welder
02-20-2014, 00:09
My local store just got this back in stock and my jaw hit the floor at the price. I'm an impulsive buyer at times, even finding and buying the JD rye at a discount, but this is way too much for me. My constant affinity for trying new whiskies makes me really want to try it, but I only limit my moron purchases to $30 or $40. I'm very intrigued at how much you guys enjoyed it

squire
02-20-2014, 06:37
I'm not a big fan of the JD whiskys generally so I'm not curious enough to exchange the going price for a slightly different taste experience. If I were so inclined I would go for the JD Single Barrel which is higher proof (94) and cost 1/3 as much.

Some observations on the aging effect of the grooved stave barrels used for Sinatra have been posted generally and not all are favorable. Gary Gillman has posted some tasting notes here so maybe he can weigh in.

Gillman
02-20-2014, 10:24
I was very impressed with the Sinatra I tasted at LCBO. It was rich, complex, sweet, like a bourbon version of a fine malt.

The price is very high. Unfortunately, the packaging surely contributed to this. Anyone from B-F reading should consider putting out similar-quality whiskey in a plainer package. In fact I haven't bought one, I consider the price beyond what I wish to pay even for a superlative product.

The Squire is exactly right about JD Single Barrel - it is a fine value in that it offers a considerable step above regular JD but for much less than the Sinatra. It doesn't have the wood grooving but on the other hand gains authenticity for not doing so. No American whiskey can be said to be more traditional. Buy that one if you can and report taste results, I doubt you will be disappointed. By the way JD is an acquired taste: it took me 30 years but I like it now. :) I also feel the palate is much improved over the last 10 years and probably closer now to what it was in the 50's than any other time since.

Gary

VAGentleman
02-20-2014, 12:08
I bought one about a month ago and liked it better than the first bottle I tried (beginning of thread). This one was a little more rich with a bigger mouth feel and was very enjoyable. The first bottle I tasted was from overseas duty free while the one I bought was from the American release. Not sure if anything changed between releases (could have been me also) but it's an excellent pour in my book.

Gillman
02-20-2014, 12:22
I had the same experience. My first taste was from an overseas DF bottle and the second, the LCBO one which was much better. Odd, sounds like there was some inconsistency in the bottlings, but the ones available here at any rate (from various things I've read) all seem first class.

Gary

squire
02-20-2014, 12:46
When you think about it there probably are different vattings, being a regular production item.

Frodo
02-22-2014, 13:47
Tried it recently - a WOW whisky for me. Totally worth a $150 price tag IMHO...