I.W.HARPER

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I have an unopened bottle of I.W.HARPER Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, made in the Spring of 1938 & bottled in the Fall of 1943. Are there any collectors out there to tell me more about this?

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See my posting under Tasting for a very similar I W Harper.

The brand comes from I W Bernheim and Bernheim Bros. The name is a mixture of Bernheim's initials I W and the last name of a famous Kentucky horse breeder named Harper (Harper owned the famous horse Ten Broeck and had horses in several of the early Kentucky Derbys). They owned the brand until just before prohibition when they sold the company. After prohibition the brand changed hands a couple of times until it Finally ended up with the Schenly Distilling Company in 1938. Your bottle is a bottle from that company.

Mike Veach

[kitzg]

Since it appears you are new to the forum I wondered if you were assuming this would be of a special value or if you were interested in the history. Clearly, IW Harper is one of the well known, old-time bourbons, having won a gold medal at the 1885 New Orleans Exposition, in 1893 at the Chicago World's Fair, then at the Exposition Universal in Paris in 1900, and another at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in 1904, and then another in 1915. Of course all of this was before prohibition. Your bottle was distilled four and one-half years after the repeal of prohibition. From Mike's tasting notes, I'd assume it is pretty good stuff.

On the other hand if you are looking for value, keep in mind that whiskey (and bourbon whiskey) does not age in the bottle. Unlike wine it will not gain more flavor. As a "collector's item" it is worth what someone is willing to pay. I'm not aware of any forum for valueing old bottles of bourbon.

Greg

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I.W. Harper is a well-known and historic brand, currently available. It was last made by United Distillers (now Diageo) at the Bernheim distillery in Louisville, but that distillery has been sold (without the I.W.Harper brand) to Heaven Hill. Other products from that distillery went to the Buffalo Trace and David Sherman companies, but not I.W.Harper. I'm not sure whether that means Diageo will market off the remaining stock as I.W.Harper, absorb it into something else, continue to look for a buyer for the label and product, or it will just quietly disappear.

Your bottle, as Mike Veach has mentioned, would be very similar to the one he tasted and described here. I also have some old Harper (but not that old) and I'm amazed at how much the flavor varies in this brand from bottling to another. Should you decide to open and taste it, please be sure to share your findings along with his in the TASTINGS section.

There really doesn't seem to be any recognized authority for collectible bourbon or paraphrenalia, such as there are for paintings, figurines, coins, stamps, Avon bottles, Beanie Babies, etc. I've found the best way to get an idea of the value of collectibles such as whiskey bottles is to watch how they do on the auctions at eBay ( http://www (http://www.<u>ebay.com).ebay.com </u>).

You'll need to register with them to access the auction pages, but it costs nothing and you don't have to bid on anything (I say this with a big grin, you understand, as I've been hooked several times). By watching the closing bids, you can see, over a period of time, what real people are really willing to pay for these items. That's a better indicator than a guess from even the most educated hobbiests (or merchants, unless they're offering to buy). Of course the majority of items offered are just the empty bottles, since technically liquor cannot be sold or shipped this way. But quite often you can find "full; original seal intact" in the descriptions. I've purchased items this way and been pleased every time (except once - be sure to read the feedback section before writing that check!). If you're using this as a "value guide", don't go by the artificial starting price. Look for something with several bids on it (that will nearly always be the case for a full bottle) and note what the item finally sells for. Also, be sure to keep in mind that the buyers on eBay are usually not dealers, so the price the item sells for is retail -- if you're looking to find the wholesale or liquidation value, a dealer would pay you about half that. If there were such things as antique bourbon dealers.

And lastly, be prepared to be somewhat disappointed in what you find out. Old bourbon isn't typically worth but only a few dollars more than current product.


=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

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Forget all that hooey, and DRINK IT MAN DRINK IT!!!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

[kitzg]

Actually, Linn's posting is better advice then mine. If I had that bottle I'd not be trying to sell it. I'd open it and taste it. Then share it with my bourbon loving friends. Then eventually the empty bottle would go on a shelf!! every time I saw it I could recall that that's an old one I actually experiencec!

Greg

[cowdery]

"Are there any collectors out there to tell me more about this?"

The short answer is, no, there aren't any collectors of old bourbon or, if there are, there are too few of them to establish any kind of predictable market.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

[cowdery]

Indications are that Diageo intends to keep the brand. While it is not much of a factor in the US, it is the number one American Whiskey in several international markets, most notably Japan. When they need whiskey, they probably will buy it from Heaven Hill. They could make it at George Dickel in Tennessee, but then they would have to take "Kentucky" off the label.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

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I was speculating about that, too. Came up with pretty much the same answers, although I think they might get a more similar flavor profile from Buffalo Trace, since they have the Old Charter stock.

=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

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United Distillers over produced enough that resupply will not be a factor for several years yet but I suspect that there was a production clause in the contract at Bernheim when they sold the distillery to Heaven Hill. The Japanese market would not like it if they found out that the bourbon was made anywhere else and you can depend on the fact that the other bourbon marketing companies would jump on the chance to say that Harper is not even made at Bernheim anymore.
This point aside I believe that U D will sell the brand off when they destroy the Japanese market with mis-management and stupid ploys (so maybe they will let Buffalo Trace make Bernheim's most famous whiskey).
Mike Veach

[cowdery]

Well, Mike, at least you're not bitter.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

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Chuck,
I say again, I believe there should be a law against Brits and Yankees marketing Bourbon. It just ain't right!!!
Mike Veach

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HEAR! HEAR!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.