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cowdery
03-10-2004, 18:24
The Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye seems to have disappeared here in Chicago. At least I didn't see any on my most recent visits to Sam's and Binny's. Is it still available elsewhere?

Well, it's not the same, but I do like this Rittenhouse Bonded Rye. Guess it'll have to do.

OneCubeOnly
03-10-2004, 18:29
Please, oh PLEASE tell me this is a temporary thing!! I only have two bottles in the bunker!

Maybe we can get an official word from Julian!?

Paradox
03-10-2004, 18:40
This is purely speculation and my opinion but this may just be something as simple as supply not being able to keep up with demand. It did happen with the Pappy 20 towards the end of last year. Also, when they ceased production of the 12 year Old RIp Van Winkle Rye they removed it from their product line on Julian's website. The VWFRR is still listed. Plus it earning such good reviews and rating by many makes it a valuable product in his lineup. Still, I would feel more comfortable hearing what's up from Julian himself. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif So Julian, what's the deal?

One other thought I just had... Doubtful but; Could Buffalo Trace have persuaded him to stop producing it hoping more sales would go to Sazerac?

cas
03-11-2004, 05:43
It hasn't been on the shelf in Columbia, SC since about last fall. Nor has the 15 year ORVW. The only flavor I can currently find is the 12 year, and that was scarce for a while. But Buffalo Trace has appeared in the within the last few weeks.
Craig

Speedy_John
03-15-2004, 05:02
How will the soon-to-come bottling be distributed? Will any make its way to PA?

SpeedyJohn

jvanwinkle
03-15-2004, 08:44
The future of our 13-year rye whiskey has been uncertain until now.
We have just tanked a 13 year supply of the rye. The whiskey was getting old so we decided to tank it. It took awhile to taste each barrel before we tanked the whiskey, but it is finally done now. That's the good news. The bad news is that it will be in very short supply. We only have about 290 cases to sell per year. We plan to bottle next week, so it should reappear on the shelves within a month. We are producing new whiskey now at BT for this brand. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Julian

bluesbassdad
03-15-2004, 11:59
Julian,

Do I infer correctly that at age 60 years I have to make it to age 73 to taste the BT version?

Yours truly,
Dave "Should Have Bunkered More VWFRR and Less Hirsch 16" Morefield

jvanwinkle
03-16-2004, 10:06
Dave:
I'm afraid so!
I just tasted the new VWFR rye, and it is very nice. Very smooth and sweeter than the prvious rye but still spicy.
Julian

tlsmothers
03-20-2004, 16:45
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif I can't wait...but I guess I have no choice, huh? Got to be patient which ain't never been one of my strong points. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif Believe me, I've already got a waiting list at the store for the next batch.

schlep
03-20-2004, 17:22
I haven't been able to find the 12-year VW Old Time Rye for a few months. Will it be available going forward?

schlep

dgonano
03-20-2004, 17:24
Well, I just picked up an "E" Frankfurt bottle today.Still have a
"D" bottle from Lawrenceburg. Currently enjoying a "D"
bottling from Frankfurt. I thought all Frankfurt bottlings had the "E" designation.Did we ever determine where these whiskies were distilled?

bobbyc
03-20-2004, 17:36
The Twelve Year is gone. Doubtfull if a forgotten bottle might show up. I may have a touch of 12 in a bit. I missed about 6 of them while laying in something else. I did get a couple though. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Paradox
03-20-2004, 20:19
The 12 year was removed from the lineup some time ago... There may be a few bottles still out there but probably at small mom and pop stores... I dout they'll add it again to the range but who knows what the future can hold...

Speedy_John
03-25-2004, 06:42
As I write this, the folks at Buffalo Trace are bottling Series "F" of the VWFRR 13yo. I hope some of it's earmarked for PA.

SpeedyJohn

gr8erdane
03-26-2004, 09:54
Yep, that's it sitting on the bottling line on the BT web cam. But it's ten til noon there and nobody's on the line? When do they take lunch? And don't they know we are all waiting for the product? Oh, the withdrawal pains suffered........

TNbourbon
03-26-2004, 13:46
Interesting that you have a 'D' bottling from Lawrenceburg. I, too, have a 'D' bottle on the shelf from Frankfort, but wouldn't have guessed it was bottled at two places. I grabbed a couple of 'E' Frankfort bottles last night. I still see a few here and there -- but, they never were everywhere to begin with.

cowdery
03-26-2004, 13:58
With apologies to Charles Dickens.

The evening arrived; the boys took their places. The master, in his blazer and slacks, stationed himself at the copper; his pauper assistants ranged themselves behind him; the rye was served out; and a long grace was said over the short commons. The rye disappeared; the boys whispered to each other, and winked at Oliver; while his next neighbours nudged him. Child as he was, he was desperate with thirst, and reckless with misery. He rose from the table; and advancing to the master, snifter in hand, said: somewhat alarmed at his own temerity:

"Please, sir, I want some more."

The master was a trim, handsome man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.

"What!" said the master at length, in a faint voice.

"Please, sir," replied Oliver, "I want some more."

(Oh, when will the waiting end.)

doubleblank
03-27-2004, 09:53
Just got back from a trip to my local retailer looking for the EWSB '94 and it was in. Grabbed one and may try this weekend. Looked down near the bottom shelf and there were the rye whiskeys together....normally they're shelfed near each distiller's other products. Anyway, there were two rows full of the VWFRR "D" bottling from Frankfort. Grabbed two for the bunker @$28. Missing were any ORVW 10/107's or Pappy 20's.

Randy B.

dgonano
04-01-2004, 19:22
Just did a doublecheck and yes, the "D" bottles I have are
from both Frankfort and Lawrenceburg.

OneCubeOnly
04-04-2004, 12:24
All of mine say "Frankfort." Beyond collectibility, is there any reason the Lawrenceburg ones should be sought after? (Ie. is it the same whiskey?)

bobbyc
04-04-2004, 13:16
is there any reason the Lawrenceburg ones should be sought after?



I hope not! All of Julians whiskies are desirable to have. To my mind all he did was move his operation to Buffalo Trace and they are bottling for him, so basically the only difference will be on the label saying "Frankfort" or " Lawrenceburg." It would not , however surprize me if years from now a cult following of Lawrenceburg VanWinkles develop. That would be beyond a bourbon snob group.
Stock up fast!

I think that is cutting it too fine.

I think if faced with a Lawrenceburg or Frankfort bottling of the same expression, the collector in me would grab the Lawrenceburg. That said if Frankfort is what they have, then that is fine too.

WEG3
04-06-2004, 14:16
Of late I have just lurked and not posted much if at all , today a good friend gave me a bottle of VWFRR 13yr as a thank you ....this should be good as I have not try'd rye yet and look forward to the experiance ...
Bill G,

"We may not be rich but we can always aford good Bourbon... " http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif

OneCubeOnly
04-06-2004, 14:41
...this should be good as I have not try'd rye yet and look forward to the experiance ...



You're in for a definite treat! And you started with what I consider to be the best!

Enjoy!
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

WEG3
04-07-2004, 16:00
Very interesting ,,, I have try'd VWFRR , and true rye for the first time I can say right off that this will need more tasting .. One thing for sure this is not Bourbon which in itself is not a bad thing it's hints at bourbon but I find that it is missing something ,,, the Corn Mash. The parts that are left are very very good abit thinner in body , a sweet start followed by a warm spice ..all in all very enjoyable.
Bill G.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif

jvanwinkle
04-13-2004, 09:43
All 13-year VWFR Rye bottles with a letter other than an "F" number on the label will be the same whiskey, whether it was bottled in Frankfort or Lawrenceburg.
Any "F" label will be a little different rye from the past, and it is great! These bottles should start hitting the stores soon as we bottled 3 weeks ago.
Julian

TNbourbon
04-13-2004, 15:09
I saw some 'F' bottles on the shelf last week while in Kentucky (Bowling Green, specifically). First mention I'd seen of it. Thanks, Julian, for the info. I'll try one next time I see it. (I've already got several 'D' and 'E' bottles 'gestating'.)

bourbonv
04-15-2004, 12:13
I just tasted some of this rye in Julian's office. I have to say that it is indeed an excelent rye. It is sweet on the mouth with a nice dry finish with just the right amount of wood.
Mike Veach

Gillman
04-15-2004, 13:20
Mike, would this be the rye that I believe Julian said earlier on these boards was now 17 years old albeit the label still describes as 13 years old?

That rye is the one I understood was tanked and that will be rationed over the next few years.

Bottles I bought last year seemed to fit the bill of 17 year old stock, but I am unclear on the new release which Julian has said is a little different but still very good. Anyway that must be the one he said was tanked.

So, is the newbie likely all rye whiskey made at Glenmore/Medley, as the previous one was, but just more matured than the latter? Is that what makes it different? If not, what would it make it different from the previous one?

Chuck or Marvin, please jump in if more info is available from your perspectives, and, thanks all.

Gary

dgonano
04-16-2004, 10:47
Gary,

I believe Julian tanked all the remaining barrels that fit the taste profile. This is to be distributed over a thirteen year period. Hopefully some finds its way into Maryland. Some of my retail outlets say they haven't received any Van Winkle products since BT took over distribution. I have been stocking up on any VW that I see on the shelves. Even picked up a Hirsch Select Rye since it's from the same rye stock.

Gillman
04-16-2004, 11:17
Thanks, and I too will purchase ORVW rye (any iteration) when I see it. This is not too often since Julian's rye has not appeared in Ontario to date. Some of his other products have, and I always pick them up. I always wondered whether the Ontario Liquor Control Board might be disinclined to approve a foreign rye whiskey for sale here. Canada is known internationally for, and consequently proud of, its rye whisky. Does the LCBO want to put the focus on foreign rye, small a category as it is...? Yet, Julian's rye is authentic rye - straight whiskey under U.S. definition. Canadian ryes, even if made from rye grain, are usually blended and are mostly high-proof spirits. The distinction may not be fully understood by the LCBO.. In any case, I think all products that can legally be sold as rye in Canada or the U.S. should be made available here, the more the better. Choice tends to expand interest in the category as a whole.

I hope the LCBO will see that Julian's rye deserves a place on its shelves - assuming there is enough to go around, that is. After all, it is a most authentic representation of the rye whiskey style. We need to see the "Pappy" of rye whiskey here and who knows, maybe its appearance would encourage Canadian whisky distillers to offer in their range a genuine (historical) rye whisky. I am not knocking the best of the Canadian ryes, I enjoy some of them. But I'd like to see on Canadian retail shelves the "flavouring whisky" I read about in consumer whisky books. I believe it to be the same thing essentially as U.S. straight rye whiskey. To date, Lot 40 has been released, a pot distillate to boot. I understand it is one of the flavouring whiskies made by Hiram Walker to stiffen its rye blends. Yet Lot 40 is hard to find today, it may in fact have been delisted by the LCBO. Distillers should not be discouraged by what I assume were its tepid sales. They should release other flavouring whiskies especially, I suggest, ones aged in new charred barrels (Lot 40 was not, I believe). There may (must?) be a range of these in our distilleries: some aged in new charred wood, some not, some mingled, some not, malted vs. unmalted versions, 100% rye vs. mixed mash versions, different ages, etc. Canadian distillers are not the least reticent of the world fraternity of whisky makers, and it would be nice to know why the flavouring whiskies are not sold uncut in Canada today.

Anyway, a long digression. I commend Julian for his resolve to find and sell the genuine article.

Gary

doubleblank
05-07-2004, 15:39
Bobby.....I just got back from a run to my favorite liquor store and guess what I saw. ORVW Old Time Rye, and lots of it on the shelf. Grabbed two as I've never seen it or tasted it before. The bottling is from the "A" series in Lawrenceburg. Where could these things have been sitting around? The store is large with high turnover of stock...this had just been put out, and at $19 I had to give it a try. Anyway...there is some of it out there somewhere.

Randy

Paradox
05-07-2004, 16:19
At $19 you found a great buy. I'd buy them all up, that is if there is not a crazy amount like 12 on the shelves. I am sure people would be interested in buying or trading a bottle or two, I know I'd be since it is near impossible to find anymore. Good find Randy! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

TNbourbon
05-07-2004, 16:19
Buy 'em out! Bring it in September. Let's trade!

Gillman
05-07-2004, 16:49
Ditto. The ORVW Old Time is a very fine rye, well done, Randy.

Gary

jeff
05-07-2004, 17:04
Bring 'em all! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Gillman
05-07-2004, 17:13
It does no disservice to this rye to say it makes a major Manhattan cocktail. I never had one made with any other whiskey as good - and for maximum effect, it needs to be taken straight up.

Gary

doubleblank
05-07-2004, 17:53
I'll call tomorrow and buy everything they have. I'll post how many I get and we can start trading. What I don't understand is how the largest store in Texas ends up with a case of such an old bottling long out of production

Randy

cowdery
05-07-2004, 19:02
Unless I'm mistaken, the ORVW rye is the same whiskey as the VWFR rye, albiet a little younger. You should be able to sell or trade those no problem.

How does it happen? It may have disappeared in a corner of one of their storerooms, or similarly in a storeroom at the distributor. They obviously didn't know it's something rare and in demand or they would have jacked up the price.

TNbourbon
05-07-2004, 19:48
That's probably it. In our area right now, it's Hirsch 16yo -- but not the newest, rather the older dipped, wax tops, bottled in Lawrenceburg. The distributor 'found' several cases it didn't know it had (or, at least, didn't know WHAT it had) and has finally placed them in some of the higher-traffic stores. I scratched and clawed (and drove to Covington, KYhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif) to get my first few bottles. Now, I know where there are several cases' worth (albeit at $65-$70 a bottle).

Paradox
05-07-2004, 19:59
Yeah, cases of stuff get 'misplaced' often... That's what happened when a place in NJ came across nearly 20 bottles of Wild Turkey 12 year old from the early 90's. And best of all, they sold it in the mid to high $20's! Same thing with a store near me that had their distributor come across several cases of JD 1895 replica bottles form the 90's... They were selling them for around $35 and at the time, they were selling for $85 on eBay. Not a bad payday to buy some cases and sell em' individually on eBay.

dgonano
05-07-2004, 20:53
Please buy all you can get. I will be at the festival, General Nelson, and will bring many tradeable items. Of course I will bring cash also. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bobbyc
05-07-2004, 20:59
Excellent find , Randy. To tell the truth I prefer the 12 year Old Time Rye to the Family Reserve.

I guess I'll have to cut you a Bourbo-Bunker pass, What do you want? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

doubleblank
05-08-2004, 06:08
Bobby......Thanks for the "pass". I'm playing golf this am and then going by the store to buy up the rest of their stock of Old Time Rye. I'll post how many I find and pm everyone who wanted one. I've got a lot to bring to the Festival! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Randy

camduncan
05-26-2004, 21:00
Reading this post makes me very envious....
Here in Australia, I've only managed to find 2 bottles of any Van Winkle product for sale - a Family Reserve Rye for AU $90 and a Family Reserve 20yo for AU $400
The Family Reserve is out due to cost, but I'm very keen to try the Rye.
They're both located interstate (some 2000 miles away) so shipping costs need to be added as well...and the retailer doesn't seem to enthusiastic to help out http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

musher
06-03-2004, 07:09
I just took a gander at the Buffalo Trace distillery cam (Blanton's Bottling Warehouse (http://www.buffalotrace.com/distillerycam.html)) and noticed that they're bottling some right this very moment. I have no idea where it is going to be shipped, but at least we know there's more on the way. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

cowdery
06-03-2004, 11:58
I would be interested to know if anyone who has tried a recent bottling has noticed how much different it is from the earlier bottlings. I believe that, although it still says 13 years on the label, what is coming out now is more like 17 years old. You can really tell. At first I wasn't even sure I liked it. I have warmed up to it since then, but I would buy some of the true 13-year-old if I could find it. Julian was absolutely right to get this stuff out of wood when he did. More aging was not going to improve it.

Gillman
06-03-2004, 12:08
I agree, the current ORVW 13 year old seems different than a few years ago. Also, even amongst the F bottlings (I've tried 3 now) there are seemingly variations, relatively subtle, but there nonetheless. My no. 747 was softer and less intense than the later-numbered ones. I think it was a good idea to tank it because in my opinion more aging would not help the palate. It is fine now (albeit somewhat different to three years ago or so) but if it can be "held" as it now is that would be best. I find the current one makes a superlative Manhattan or rocks drink. The one of a few years ago was ditto but also drank well neat or with slight addition of water. Even though Rock Hill Farms is bourbon its 16 year old reminds me of the ORVW rye, both have a richness and barrel character I find appealing.

Gary

wadewood
06-22-2004, 10:14
I found some of the new VWFRR F series bottling in Denver; picked one up for only $19.

cowdery
06-22-2004, 13:13
Great price! It's $30 here.

barturtle
12-17-2005, 18:28
The future of our 13-year rye whiskey has been uncertain until now.
We have just tanked a 13 year supply of the rye. The whiskey was getting old so we decided to tank it. It took awhile to taste each barrel before we tanked the whiskey, but it is finally done now. That's the good news. The bad news is that it will be in very short supply. We only have about 290 cases to sell per year. We plan to bottle next week, so it should reappear on the shelves within a month. We are producing new whiskey now at BT for this brand.
Julian



I was in a liquor store in Louisville(okay, many) but in one of them I overheard the proprietors talking to another customer saying that the VW rye they had was the last that they'd get for 3 years. I just want to check that this plan still holds or do I need to go buy a 3 year supply?

jvanwinkle
12-20-2005, 14:44
Timothy:
Which store was that in Louisville? I'll go by & straighten them out.
As I sad previously, starting in July-August of each year, we will have 290 cases to sell in the US each year. About 30 of those cases will be in Kentucky-Louisville area.
Julian

barturtle
12-20-2005, 15:20
Thanks Julian. That's just what I wanted to hear(though I would like to hear larger numbers, as would many I'd bet).

Though I may have misheard(and just what I'd deserve for letting myself hear others' conversations) I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be deprived of your wonderful rye.

PM sent

cas
12-21-2005, 05:56
I haven't been able to get it for about the last year in SC either. Can you rattle some cages there?

Craig

ProofPositive
01-08-2006, 00:25
Earlier this evening, along with my first bottle of Pappy 15yo bourbon, I snagged my first VWFRR for the home inventory. While I have never tried rye, I am looking forward to the experience. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do not recall seeing VWFRR in any other store around here until this one today. They have 1 more bottle in stock and I may go back for it next week if my tasting experience is as good as I expect it to be. Just about anything in the VW family is hard to find around my stomping grounds. If you find a VW product, always best to grab it before someone else does. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BTW, I see a lot of reference to the alpha letter found on the VWFRR such as an "E" or "F" bottle. Mine is marked "G3259". What does that mean exactly in terms of barrel origination or date, and, when it was dumped for bottling? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif

BourbonJoe
01-08-2006, 03:40
"G" denotes 2005 Release.
Joe http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif

ProofPositive
01-08-2006, 10:28
Not to beat a http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/deadhorse.gif with this question....but, is the "G" bottling the older S-W whiskey or the newer BT? I know that is a frequent question here on the Forum and I have yet to be able to master the answer. Right now, the only factor I know to use is the year 1992 when S-W shut down operations. If my math is reasonably good, VW whiskies that are currently 13-year (possibly) or younger were born under the BT masthead(?)http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

barturtle
01-08-2006, 16:02
IIRC Julian has never revealed the source of the rye. But he has stated that they tanked the rye at about 19yo and the F and G bottlings are both from this tanked stock or at least from the same lot of barrels and the rest was tanked after the F was bottled(something like that anyway). At any rate the rye is not from the same stock as the other products that are bottles as VW. The current issue 10yo is Bernhiem-distilled and the 12yo should soon be also(or may be now). Then as that stock moves through to the older products the BT-distilled stock will come into the younger and work its way throught the product line. Julian says he has many years of the rye tanked, so then when thats used up that shall also move inot BT-distilled stock.

Sound right, Julian?

jvanwinkle
01-09-2006, 13:23
Yep-that sounds correct. S/W never distilled any rye for me or anybody. The present rye in the F & G bottles is a marriage of two different rye distillations. We hope to continue bottling the presently tanked rye for another 11 years, unless it starts going south in the tank.
We hope to start bottling BT rye in about 11 years.
Julian

Gillman
01-09-2006, 14:27
Now that's interesting since I felt (and if one searches in the archives here the comment will be found) that starting with F the rye tasted somewhat different from the E and earlier bottlings, and not just as a result of being "older". It's all very good, but F really did seem to strike out on a path of its own. I'd ask which two ryes are in there but I don't think Julian will say since he never (I believe) confirmed the origin of the rye in the E and earlier bottlings. Rumor here had it that it was Medley whiskey but we never knew for sure! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

ProofPositive
01-10-2006, 22:17
While out on a late evening adventure after work tonight looking for some hard-to-find bourbon, I came across a little bit of a treasure. Well, at least to me because I have not seen one before. It is a "B" bottling of VWFRR. Now, counting backwards would this be the version for year 2000?

Anyhow, not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif Wayne

TNbourbon
01-11-2006, 15:06
...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif...



You think that until you taste it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

ProofPositive
01-11-2006, 23:42
...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif...



You think that until you taste it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif



Unfortunately for my bank account and the continued evaporation of my wife's patience, you are most likely going to be found correct in your statement. That will open up a whole new dimension in my newfound obsession!

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif Wayne

Virus_Of_Life
01-12-2006, 00:56
I have now started searching every "Fine Wine & Spirits" and "Gourmet Liquor" store I come across here in SoCal (specifically Orange County) and good grief there is an absolute load of them! But I do always get amused when I walk into one of these places and the owner/manager replies that his premium bourbons are Glenlivet, Remy Martin or JD Single Barrel. I just must say again I love all of you on this site for who you are and what you provide to my life: knowledge, without you I'd go crazy when I find people who don't know that Bourbon is a whiskey and not all whiskeys are bourbons… Anyway I am not too hopeful in this corner of the country that I’ll actually find any VW Family Reserve Rye, but that doesn’t mean I will not look. If anyone knows that it was or was not distributed in this area I’d appreciate the info!

I seem to be fighting a losing battle where every corner market is a Fine or Gourmet liquor store...

kbuzbee
01-13-2006, 07:28
...not too bad a find for a bourbon hunter stumbling around in dark corners of an old liquor shop. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif...



You think that until you taste it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif -- then you'll find you've become a rye-hunter, too. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif



Unfortunately for my bank account and the continued evaporation of my wife's patience, you are most likely going to be found correct in your statement. That will open up a whole new dimension in my newfound obsession!

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif Wayne



And as your taste for Rye develops, make room on the shelf for a bottle of WT Rye. It's a very nice pour and my most common diversion from KS. At $18 a bottle it won't hurt you as badly as some others.

Ken

scratchline
01-13-2006, 07:59
I'll second that WT Rye sentiment. This was the bottle that introduced me to rye and even with all the others out there now, I still have the highest regard for the WT. I recently mixed a Manhattan with the WT and Carpano Punt e Mes, and I think it was the best ever. Later, I tried the same thing with EC 12, and it was vastly inferior, way too sweet.

The only other rye that's come close for me was the Van Winkle 12 and that may be because the nostalgia factor has elevated it. Would love to come across a new old bottle and find out.

T47
01-13-2006, 08:05
According to our State Liquor web site, only 1 store in the State had it, and its on the wrong side of the State for me http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I called just to see if they really had any, and it’s all gone, part of a special order.
Today I am going to pick up a bottle of WT Rye, its kind of difficult to get for me as well? Only a couple stores in reasonable distance have it? What is Old Potrero Rye like? Relatively high priced at $101.95, is that one to look at some day in the future?

chasking
01-13-2006, 08:52
Old Potrero is not really a rye like other ryes.

Most whiskey bottled as "straight rye" is made from a mashbill of about 51% rye, a bit of malted barley, and the rest corn. (Old Overholt is a little higher in the rye percentage, IIRC.) There are variations between products depending on the distiller and the age, but they are generally recognizable as generally the same product.

Old Potrero, on the other hand, is made from a mashbill of 100% malted rye. Malting substantially changes the character of a grain (for whiskey-making purposes, anyway) so Old Potrero is really a completely different category of whiskey.

It's certainly worth trying. However, just because you like WT rye or Rittenhouse or VWFRR or Sazerac does not mean that you will also like Old Potrero. (Nor, of course, does it mean that you won't.) Given it's high price, if at all possible you should try to get some in a bar or something before dropping that much for a whole bottle.

Opinions differ on whether it's good, or whether it's worth the price. Personally I like it, and while I'm not sure it's $100 whiskey, since it is really a unique style I'm willing to pay a premium to have some in the collection.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clever.gif I will mention tangentally that under the labeling regulations (27 CFR 5.22(b)(1)(i)) I don't think they should be able to call Old Potrero "straight rye" since the regs specifically list "rye malt whiskey" as a separate category, which is clearly what Old Potrero is. I think technically it should be labeled "straight rye malt whiskey", which would have the added benefit of informing consumers that it is different from regular straight rye. The feds seem to apply those regs a little loosely; see, e.g., "Tennessee whiskey". (That topic has been extensively discussed in this thread (http://www.straightbourbon.comhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/31586/page//fpart/1/vc/1).)

Jake_Parrott
01-13-2006, 09:00
There is also a surfeit of Old Potrero labels out there. The most recent, Old Potrero "Straight Rye" Whiskey--sometimes labeled is no cheaper than the others, but is bottled at 90 proof, so the "bang for the buck" isn't there anymore. There are a bunch of different cask-strength bottlings of Potrero through the years--"18th Century Style" (two years or so in uncharred wood), "19th Century Style" (three years in charred wood, was replaced by the regular straight rye), "Single Malt Spirit" (California only), which is the same as..."Single Malt Whiskey" (two to two-and-a-half years in uncharred wood). It's very confusing, and I'm wondering if Anchor intended the 90 proof bottling to be the same price as the cask strength ones, or if distributors and such (1) got confused or (2) saw a way to make a few extra simoleons.

Rughi
01-13-2006, 09:19
Most whiskey bottled as "straight rye" is made from a mashbill of about 51% rye, a bit of malted barley, and the rest corn. (Old Overholt is a little higher in the rye percentage, IIRC.)



This is what I remembered, too, but when I looked up mashbills recently in Regan & Regan, it seems they were led to believe that 65% is more the standard.

Regan & Regan list both Heaven Hill and Wild Turkey as having 65% rye, 23% corn and 12% barley malt.

IIRC the George Washington recipe was about 65% rye, 30% corn and 5% malted barley. I'm not sure if some of the rye was malted, as 5% would be a pretty low number for malt.

Of course, whiskey writers never seem to report the same "facts", to the point that one wonders if they are speculating or if distillers make sport of supplying them with disinformation. Murray writes that WT would have about 55% rye, HH about 52%, Beam 51%, and Overholt at 61%.

These numbers would be more in line with VW rye, which I believe Julian once wrote here on sb.com that it was at a "barely legal" level above 51%.

So which writers is one to believe? Chuck, of course, but I can't recall without some research if he's ever weighed in on this rye mashbill thing.

Roger

T47
01-13-2006, 14:17
Thanks for the information. I just stopped by the liquor store to pick up the bottles of Buffalo Trace, and what did I find on the shelf…they have 8 bottles of Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye! Its not listed on the State site that they had it, so it was a nice surprise. I picked up a couple (33.35 each). I am looking forward to giving it a try.
If you other WA folks are interested it’s the store at 1302 6th Ave, in Seattle.

CrispyCritter
01-13-2006, 23:10
I picked up one today, and it was about $60. It was the 90 proof version, labeled "Single Malt Straight Rye Whiskey."

It isn't open yet... I need to finish some other bottles first.

Jake_Parrott
01-14-2006, 04:58
That's about what the cask-strength stuff used to cost (the price got lowered, at least in the DC market, about two years ago--I even got some on closeout for much cheaper than that). Still, $60 for 90-proof, two-year-old (or three) whiskey seems pretty dear to me, even if it reflects a bunch of tradition.