PDA

View Full Version : Bourbon with steak



angelshare
03-30-2004, 07:53
Does anyone out there have a favorite bourbon or Tennessee whiskey to enjoy with steak? Does it change if the steak in charcoal vs. gas grilled? Alternatively, any American whiskey that you have found goes poorly with steak?

TNbourbon
03-30-2004, 09:12
I virtually never drink bourbon WITH a meal, but I frequently have it ON a steak. I almost always marinate beef with bourbon -- usually Old Forester 86, because it's fairly inexpensive but still pretty good bourbon.

boone
03-30-2004, 09:51
When we go out to party with friends. I watch to see what everybody drinks. Not that I am counting or prying into thier life but I just take note what bourbon they choose, how they drink it and when. I have noticed that when we are at a big "sit down meal" or grilling steaks for a home picnic, they alomost always drink the bourbon before and after the meal. This happens every time. Not one of my friends or family will drink their bourbon, "during" a big meal.

Hmmmmmmmmmm...blew my cover...now when I go out with my friends they will know that I am "REALLY" watching them http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Another thing I noticed, I was curious to see the results. During the bourbon festival my special guest was Craig Beam... I "grabbed" him and escorted him to the center of Gazebo (Straighbourbon.com party headquarters) to introduce him to everyone. Before I started, I asked Craig, did he want a drink? (On the table at the Gazebo, there looked to be at least a "jillion" bottles of bourbon available for tasting)

Craig's first reflex was to drink http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif "HIS BOURBON" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but I asked him to try something different and tell me his opinion. He looked me dead in the eye...and scanned the table for a bit. He said, give me some of that Pappy. I've been wanting to try that for awhile. I fixed him a pour (neat) he swirrled it...sniffed...then tasted...

I could tell by the look in his eye, he like it. His response was, It's pretty good stuff...Then...somebody stole him from me. I didn't get to see him again http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave_in_Canada
03-30-2004, 11:30
Enjoy your bourbon while you're grilling. Try a dry woody brand like Knob Creek. And if the BBQ or weather is hot, drink it with ice or lots of branch water. Then make sure you've used a good bourbon BBQ sauce like the Elijah Craig, Evan Williams, Jim Beam, Wild Turkey or Buffalo Trace (all of whom have their own packaging etc.) and enjoy your meal with a cold beer or red wine. But I wouldn't know about the Steak part as I haven't had steak in over 20 years. How about bourbon and tofu. Anyone? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

angelshare
03-30-2004, 12:06
I must be in a minority on this. I have enjoyed for many years the taste of a good steak along with either JD black, Gentleman Jack, or, occasionally, Wild Turkey 101. Relatively unconsciously, I developed a pattern of a bite of steak, a very small sip of whiskey, and then one to two more bites of steak.

Thanks for the marinating tip. I have done the whiskey marinade before, but I think my choices may have been suboptimal.

As for whiskey during grilling, before the meal, after the meal or during the meal...luckily, these choices are not mutually exclusive to the remaining ones!

tlsmothers
04-04-2004, 22:24
I like a rye bourbon for red meat typically...WT, OF, OGD. However, I had a great 10 year Dickel with a lamb burger recently. Nice match.



As for whiskey during grilling, before the meal, after the meal or during the meal...luckily, these choices are not mutually exclusive to the remaining ones

I agree. I'm hoping to plan a nice dinner this summer with bourbon used in about everything, marinade, side dishes, dessert. Should be fun!

Cholly
05-02-2004, 10:07
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif It must be a Va thing. I drink Bourbon and Coke (not Pepsi or any other impersonator)while cooking and eating heavy meats. I say it aids in digestion but the truth is, it's what I like. My last drink of the night or during the quiet times is only time I qualify as a Straight Bourbon Drinker (well maybe a little ice). It's a great way for me to slow down and coast to a stop. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif

angelshare
05-02-2004, 11:44
It has been ages since I mixed with soda, but years ago I used to mix with ginger ale. Consequently, I could imagine how an ice cold soda spiked with bourbon could taste quite pleasant out by a hot grill.

I say we're in good company regarding bourbon with a meal:

"If you've never had baked country ham, sliced thin, wedged between beaten biscuits and washed down with Old Fitz - honey, you've never lived!"

-Helen Cromwell

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

cowdery
05-03-2004, 01:27
"If you've never had baked country ham, sliced thin, wedged between beaten biscuits and washed down with Old Fitz - honey, you've never lived!"

-Helen Cromwell




There you go. Gillman and I had this conversation last weekend. Bourbon really goes well with anything very savory and flavorful. It's a perfect match with country ham.

Is Helen Cromwell the "Dirty Helen" of Sally Van Winkle's book? (I suppose I could go into the next room and look.)

angelshare
05-03-2004, 05:26
Yes, you are (as usual) correct. I was revisiting the Van Winkle book the other day, and this quote is printed in large type in the margin of page 111. It jumped out at me as I was flipping through the pages. I thought, wow - that sounds great! According to "Dirty Helen," I still have not "lived," but Old Fitzgerald, probably BIB, with ham biscuits is now on my list of things to try.

Earlier in this thread it seemed as though most responders didn't really have much enthusiasm for actually enjoying whiskey during a meal, so I thought I was in a small minority. Since I don't drink wine, whiskey seems to be a good complement with a meal for me. In my humble opinion, steak is probably the quintessential "whiskey meat," especially if it is charcoal grilled; however, I have had some enjoyable combinations with ham, salmon and tuna. Even though I'm partial to "woodier" whiskey, I think younger whiskeys go better with fish.

Though not a bourbon, I once tried Copper Fox with pork chops. It was an interesting and not unpleasant combination, but I doubt I'll repeat it frequently.

jeff
05-03-2004, 06:23
Many times I have enjoyed a thick filet mignon accompanied with a Pappy 20yo. In fact, this is one of my favorite meals. I think to enjoy bourbon while dining you must match the bourbon to the food you are eating. A nice, well aged, full bodied, slightly oaky bourbon pairs well with most red meats. On the other hand, a nice spicy, slightly hot OGD pairs well with a plate of nachos or buffalo wings http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Actually, bourbon is my drink of choice for really spicy foods. You scientists correct me if I'm wrong, but capsaicin, the chemical that gives peppers their heat, is soluble in alcohol, not water, and the higher the ABV of your drink, the quicker the sting subsides. I like drinking beer with spicy foods, but beer is mostly water. I remember one night after consuming some habanero chili I thought I was going to die http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif till I took a half a shot of GTS and rinsed it around in my mouth http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif. There was an initial sting http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/hot.gif from the addition of the bourbon, but in a few moments most of the heat from the chili had dissipated

Gillman
05-03-2004, 06:31
Combining whiskey and food, where whiskey is an accompaniment to the meal or used in the cooking, is a relatively new idea; this is so in Britain, certainly. Whisky Magazine from the U.K. has an ongoing series where contributor Martine Nouet, appropriately a Frenchwoman, suggests interesting ideas to combine cuisine and whisky. Until recently in Britain whisky was regarded as something to be taken between meals as a bracer or tonic, or before bedtime. This made sense in the cool damp climate of Northern Britain before the modern economy when most people worked outdoors and or worked and lived in buildings not centrally heated. People also engaged in strenuous outdoor sports such as shooting and riding and the silver whisky or brandy flask was a stand-by of such affairs. Scotch whisky was not even served before meals (as a cocktail U.S.-style) until recently and even then it hasn't really taken on. A few years ago I ordered whisky in the Reform Club in London before dinner. The rest of my party, all English, remarked that whisky before dinner was unusual and normally one would have sherry or maybe gin and tonic. Probably today (albeit only three years later) the scotch aperitif, and likely the equally U.S.-inspired "glass of white wine", is more acceptable than it was. But the point being, whisky was and is not consumed during meals in Britain. As for all "rules" there are established exceptions. One is to drink whisky with haggis during Robert Burns dinners. Another is, or was, to drink scotch and water with the cooked English breakfast (the full affair of eggs, bacon or other meat, mushrooms, grilled tomato, toast, etc.), no doubt taken at leisure at mid-day on a lazy Sunday.

I am not as familiar with practices in the U.S. but would think the situation, except for the pre-dinner cocktail, is similar, i.e., whiskey generally is not consumed with meals. There are no doubt exceptions here too, e.g., I have heard some Southerners speak of "Kentucky tea", being a cold whiskey highball taken before and with meals. No doubt many families or regions have their own particular practices in regard to food and whiskey. The cocktail party was and is an exception in that sufficient food is (or should) be served to help absorb the alcohol, although a cocktail party, even the best, is not a sit-down dinner of course.

Like a lot of practices, they change with the times and fashions. It is a good idea to regard whiskey and food in the same breath in part because eating food with whiskey tends to encourage a more responsible attitude to drinking. Second, many interesting combinations can be thought of and this seems largely a "do it yourself" area where personal inventiveness sets the tone. Personally, I find more and more a cocktail or two before dinner is enough and I like to eat the food plain, but I can see that many whisky and food combinations (Martine Nouet has many good ideas) can be fun at least for special occasions.

Chuck and I were talking specifically about ham and whiskey and in fact, the combination seems generally a good one.

Gary

angelshare
05-03-2004, 10:51
Combining whiskey and food, where whiskey is an accompaniment to the meal or used in the cooking, is a relatively new idea;



Thank you both for your very interesting and informative comments. I must admit that I was not taught the practice of drinking whiskey with a meal, nor have I really read specifics about it. I don't even really remember when I started doing it with regularity. At home, I probably have whiskey during a meal every one to two weeks, usually coinciding with a choice to grill part of the evening meal. If we go out to dinner, though, I almost always get a whiskey to enjoy during the meal.

I never thought about whiskey as a complement to bacon. Might make an interesting brunch experiment sometime.

I haven't been there for a couple of years, but a local Chinese restaurant carries both WT 101 and Old Grand Dad 86. I found that both of these went okay with their sesame chicken.

After reading all of your wonderful insights, however, I am still left with one question: Am I avante garde or gauche? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Gillman
05-03-2004, 12:21
Thanks for your reply. Eating steak with a bourbon cocktail or highball is certainly not gauche. It may, however, be avant garde. What is the avant garde but people who do what seems right for them (without slavish regard to the received practice or current fashion) only to find in a short while that they have set the tone and others follow them..?

In fact, I believe the current "whiskey renaissance" (phrase courtesy Chuck Cowdery's excellent current Bourbon newsletter) is not due to anxious sub-editors working in big city cubbyholes trying to create the next big thing in drink (much less whiskey copywriters, ad consultants, etc.). Rather, we can look to the activities of consumers or writers who are interested in something they view as genuine and pursue their interest to the point (sometimes) of making others take notice. I believe Jim Butler's great little whiskey forum right here has had something to do with the aforesaid renaissance, in fact. It takes sometimes only a few mouths' buzzing to create, or reinforce a budding, interest; others will try something different who are not captive to common notions or silly prejudices.

In food, I learned a lot from the late English writer Elizabeth David. Her luminous works are still widely available in Penguin, and I recommend them highly. Ditto the late British food historian Alan Davidson (especially his recent Oxford Companion To Food). In drink (everything except wine and brandy), a key influence was Michael Jackson, especially his 1988 World Guide To Whisky which is a classic, full-stop. Elizabeth David wrote an essay in the early 1960's called "Whisky In The Kitchen" (reproduced in the collection, "An Omelette and a Glass of Wine") which explained in her droll inimitable style why there was no reason not to use scotch instead of brandy to flame dishes and otherwise in cookery. All these people followed their own lights (with the benefit of knowledge, experience and reading, of course). They did what they thought appropriate in their chosen area of interest or work whether it had precedent or no. They encouraged me to be intrepid in the areas that interest me, but (as with the old saw that white wine goes with fish and red with meat) much of the received wisdom is valid too. Some experiments just won't work.

The idea of drinking diluted whisky with a brunch-type breakfast is one of those old practices that has a certain logic to me, I intend to try it soon (on a Sunday!). Come to think of it, Kentucky ham and (genuine) English bacon resemble each other quite a bit. (This is an example, I believe, of the old British influence still at work in the South. Another example: the biscuits I had at Tom Pig's in Bardstown recently which recalled certain scones and griddle breads of modern Scotland). So the Bourbon whiskey that is the renown of Old Kentucky and indeed America surely would accompany well its best cured meats, just as scotch matches up well to British ham and bacon. In fact, that is what Helen Cromwell said apropos Old Fitz and ham on biscuit (there's a good old English name, Cromwell) as per one of the current threads on this board; she figured it out a while ago, evidently, and wasn't shy to say so.

Gary

cowdery
05-03-2004, 15:07
Actually, what is served ubiquitously at parties in Kentucky is country ham on tiny buns, about 1 1/2" in diameter, as opposed to beaten biscuits. There usually is some mustard present, but it is quite unnecessary. I believe the salt-cured ham tradition came to Kentucky via Virginia so I would expect it is available in your area. One traditional way of fixing country ham is to boil the slices in coffee, which then becomes the base for red eye gravy.

angelshare
05-03-2004, 18:12
Many times I have enjoyed a thick filet mignon accompanied with a Pappy 20yo.



Thanks, Jeff, for letting me know that an individual with your bourbon expertise and enthusiasm finds bourbon and steak such a natural combination. Although I would like to think I'm avant garde (you're too kind, Gary), I like validation as much as the next guy!

But, my real question is: If I ever happen to pass through your town around supper time and pick up a couple of nice filets to grill, will you break out the Pappy 20? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

jeff
05-03-2004, 18:21
Thanks, Jeff, for letting me know that an individual with your bourbon expertise and enthusiasm...



I will admit to being very enthusiastic http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif



If I ever happen to pass through your town around supper time and pick up a couple of nice filets to grill, will you break out the Pappy 20?



But of course http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But you better hurry, I am halfway through my last bottle and there is no more 20 to be found in these parts http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif As a consolation, if you bring a slab of pork ribs I'll pony up some Eagle Rare 17yo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

ratcheer
05-03-2004, 19:47
Dave, somehow you just reminded me of one of the greatest meals of my life.

I can't remember the name of the restaurant, but it was a cellar in downtown Cincinnati. It was connected to a highly regarded French restaurant upstairs and the cellar restaurant was supposed to be a British-style affair.

The meal was thick, grilled pork chops served with baked sweet potatoes (or, yams, if you prefer). This was accompanied by huge mugs of Bass pale ale. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif Awesome!

Tim

angelshare
05-03-2004, 20:32
I'm glad I fascilitated a fond memory!

Your post reminded me that I'm still looking for the perfect bourbon + pork combo. Honestly, so far, JD is the best pork + American Whiskey combo in my opinion.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

cowdery
05-03-2004, 23:34
La Maissonette?

pepcycle
05-04-2004, 13:57
Inspired by this post, I went to High on Rose and ordered their double thick pork chop and accompanied it with a WT101 Manhattan (or two). Nice combo. I have some ribeyes in the freezer and a buffalo roast. what do you think we go good with buffalo, Stagg?
Ed

angelshare
05-04-2004, 14:16
Never had Stagg, and have only had buffalo twice that I can recall in 10 years. With that disclaimer, for some reason, EC 18 came to mind when I read your post.

In any case, let me know how it turns out!

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

TNbourbon
05-04-2004, 15:48
Buffalo sounds like a CrackerJack entree to me. Pony up the Old Fitz BIB.

jbutler
05-04-2004, 19:32
Ed,

I would thnk that Stagg would be just about the perfect bourbon for buffalo. I've had buffalo steak with Blanton's, Woodford, and WT KS. The meat was prepared the same way each time, and trying different bourbons was intentional.

In my opinion, the Blanton's was the hands down winner, the WT second place, and the Woodford ruined the meat(so I slammed it, ordered a Blanton's neat, and carried on.) The meat was served in a red wine reduction sauce and Blanton's flavor profile just fit the presentation perfectly. Buffalo steak has quite a bit of flavor no matter how it is prepared, and I would think any higher proof bourbon would pair well with it.

ratcheer
05-04-2004, 20:00
Yes, that was it. It was about 20 years ago, so it was difficult to remember, but you nailed it. Thanks!

Tim

Ambernecter
05-10-2004, 19:47
Booker's and steak anyone? Perfect in my opinion.
I remember seeing a pompous show on English tv a while back, where some aristocratic type invited his guests to "a small whiskey before dinner."
I'll go along with that (as well one as during and after as well!)
Higher proof whiskey also holds it's own with the flavour of the dish you're eating as well, I find.

angelshare
05-12-2004, 11:44
Booker's and steak anyone? Perfect in my opinion.



Honestly, I can't specifically remember trying this combination. Planning steaks on the grill Saturday, and I have an unopened bottle of Booker's. HMMMM....

Regarding the higher proof bourbons, I will agree that Rare Breed seems to go particularly well with steak. Then again, VOB 80 goes well, too, and I think JD is a great steak complement.

angelshare
05-15-2004, 18:42
We had a good bourbon and steak night. Unfortunately, I could have done better on the steaks - slightly overcooked to our taste. Still, charcoal grilled steaks with whiskey can't be beat. Picture #1: Steaks on the grill, my AAA 10 yr on the rocks (melted) next to the grill. Of course, I'm drinking it in a Four Roses glass.

angelshare
05-15-2004, 18:52
Then I had the Booker's suggested by our fellow Bourbonian. Magnificent. Ultimately, I cut it with a little bit of water.

angelshare
05-15-2004, 19:00
Top secret: Tina is abstaining right now due to our VERY recent discovery that she is expecting. Consequently, she and Claire (our 2 year old) recommend for tea totallers:

jeff
05-15-2004, 19:27
Congratulations http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

cowdery
05-15-2004, 20:54
Congratulations. If I've been paying attention, won't this be number three? You know, they now know what causes it.

Think of this. 3 x 9 means Tina will have foregone bourbon for 2 1/4 years for the sake of your family. That's love!!

TNbourbon
05-15-2004, 21:17
3 x 9 means Tina will have foregone bourbon for 2 1/4 years for the sake of your family. That's love!!


Which brings to mind: While Tina is abstaining, do you get her share? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Kids -- better (mostly!) than even bourbon.
Best wishes.

bobbyc
05-15-2004, 21:43
Congratulations from us as well! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

boone
05-15-2004, 23:13
Congratulations http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Three is a lucky number http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gillman
05-16-2004, 03:49
Adding my best to you and your family. Hope we may meet you at the Festival in September.

Gary

ratcheer
05-16-2004, 06:25
Allow me to add my congratulations. I believe that our children are our most precious and important contributions. This is a wonderful event!

Tim

angelshare
05-16-2004, 06:44
Congratulations. If I've been paying attention, won't this be number three? You know, they now know what causes it.

Think of this. 3 x 9 means Tina will have foregone bourbon for 2 1/4 years for the sake of your family. That's love!!



Wow, thanks to everyone for all your well wishes! Yes, Tina has made quite a few sacrifices along the way, not the least of which is 27 or so bourbon free months. She will occasionally have a tiny sip just to satisfy her bourbon palate, but, in essence, it's 40 weeks of abstention.

Tim, I don't know if I get her share exactly, but I suspect I come out ahead, probably because there is no division of designated driver duty! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chuck - I don't know if this is what you mean, but several years ago an elderly patient of mine was browbeating me over the fact that Tina and I had no children (she was a great grandmother and loved babies). I think I made some kind of comment like "maybe soon."

"Here's what you do," she said. "Tonight you go to the liquor store and get you a pint of liquor. You and Tina share it. Nature will take it's course."

"Oh, really? That works?" I said.

She smiled. "Worked for me every time!"

So, now we know - it's in the bourbon!

It's a small consolation, but Tina does get extra portions of steak for nine months.

gr8erdane
05-16-2004, 11:17
Gerber's Baby Bourbon?

OneCubeOnly
05-17-2004, 05:50
I believe that's a bottling nobody has *EVER* posted tasting notes for! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Seriously, congratulations on your news! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pepcycle
05-17-2004, 13:12
Bourbon and Steak.
I am still trying to figure out an amusing tie between the thread title and the new subject. (Food and Fertility)
I guess that rather than risk a joke in "bad taste", I'll just say CONGRATULATIONS.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

brendaj
05-19-2004, 09:55
Dave,


So, now we know - it's in the bourbon!



Oh no! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif Now that I think back, that the way my two children came to be. YeeGawds! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Say it isn't so... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

Seriously, congratulations to you both! And, I'm most sure that you are a fair and reasonable person. And after Tina delivers...


I suspect I come out ahead, probably because there is no division of designated driver duty!


that she'll get equal time http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Again, congratulations ya'll,
Bj

brendaj
05-19-2004, 09:57
Chuck,


Think of this. 3 x 9 means Tina will have foregone bourbon for 2 1/4 years for the sake of your family. That's love!!


Gawd I love the way you think... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/kiss.gif
Bj

doubleblank
05-20-2004, 07:32
I was in San Antonio visiting my parents this week and saw this story. It's about the hot, new trend...pairing whiskey and steak....with a Texas twist. Note the Weller in the picture as it can be found in almost any decent bar in Texas. There are a couple of recipies attached to the article that seem pretty interesting...and of course, BF gets in a little marketing as does Pacult. It's a good read and another example of the rising interest in bourbon.

Randy

http://www.mysanantonio.com/salife/food/stories/MYSA051904.1Q.steaks.dabd4895.html