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bourbonmed
05-03-2004, 16:28
Interesting article from Australia.

Watered down to 74 proof, (37% ABV) bourbon importers in Australia are saving millions in excise fees.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083103581789.html

Omar

tlsmothers
05-04-2004, 17:29
Maybe we should start watering down shirazes to a more reasonable proof and see how they feel! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

TNbourbon
05-05-2004, 17:21
Don't get me wrong, Aussie shiraz, in general, is my favorite red -- but, honestly, I've tasted some of the newer, cheaper bottlings, and I think they're watering them down pre-shipment.

MurphyDawg
05-05-2004, 21:17
I dont like the precedent set by someone allowing a whiskey of less than 80 proof be called straight bourbon. I hope that it doesnt catch on.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gifTomC http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

boone
05-06-2004, 09:15
Omar,

This is not uncommon for a Export (rare but not uncommon). I can remember putting labels on bottles more than ten years ago with 74 proof. My first big "blunder" in being a label machine operator was on this proof...I accidentally ran 80 proof, instead of 74. Caught the mistake late in the order.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gillman
05-06-2004, 09:44
Bettye Jo, how is proof actually measured at Heaven Hill? Whose job is that and is there an (industrial) tolerance, e.g., would 80.2 proof be acceptable for a label stating 80 proof spirits?

Also, (unless any of this is a trade secret), what kind of water is used to let down the whiskey to the proof level you want? Is demineralized water used?

Thanks as always!

Gary

boone
05-06-2004, 11:07
I will ask on the proof points...I know for certain, the "fill point" we are legally allowed 4 points either way over or under...

On the proof point, I know, what "I want" to say and have said "in the past" but I believe "I was told the wrong answer". Cause, I have heard (on the walkie talkies) them sayin' "bring tank fourty up two tenths"...

The lab and Quality Control (processing) takes care of this. There is a small machine that calculates the proof in minutes. The product is checked often. Especially, on the lines, after every break and tank change, they are proof checked. This is not counting the times it is checked before it is put into a bottling tank.

I asked your very question because it says dead up on the label 74.7...I asked is it exactly 74.7 or is there a "gimme" factor like on the fill point? Why put .7 if there is a "gimmie" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I will ask again, but this time I will go higher up http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ya know, they probably hate to see me coming...It's usually drill time http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but they are alway nice and take time to see me http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Even Max http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif One time, I pecked on his door, (opened) I have never seen it shut. I poked my head in and said, "Ya got a minute"? He looked up then, looked at his watch and said 59, 58, 57, 56...then just laughed and said come on in http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...Heck, when he is there and I have visitors during the daylight hours he has always taken the time to say hello and talk with them http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Every, time http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes, we use demineralized water...We have a two of massive tanks just for water. One tank, is a holding tank and the other one is processing. The demineralized water, is used in everything from washing tanks out, clearing the lines and processing the right proof...Thats alot of water. On several occasions we have moved lines for "lack" on water.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

doubleblank
05-06-2004, 11:30
Gary....I don't recall the exact regulations, but for the wine industry if you state alcohol content in either whole numbers or 1/2 percents, the gov't gives you some leeway on actual alcohol content. If your label says 14.2%, it has to be extremely close to that. That's why most wine labels are in whole or half percent figures. The liquor regulations are similar, I just don't recall the specifics.

Randy

Gillman
05-06-2004, 12:31
Thanks, and to Bettye Jo also for her response. I find the type of water I use to dilute whiskey can impact flavour significantly. Tap water seems the least effective except in New York City where it tastes very fresh and "clean" and is an excellent diluent. I find Evian water and many other spring waters quite good. The Saratoga Springs carbonated water is also very good and has the ability seemingly to neutralise acidity in whiskey. Some whiskeys seem a touch acid or "spirity" and the right water can turn that around.

Ideally one would use branch water for a bourbon highball. I have read different theories of what branch water is. One says it is water from the limestone shelf. Another says it is river water from a branch (tributary) of the main watercourse. I looked for branch water at Liquor Barn in Louisville and couldn't find any, they sold a spring water produced in central Florida that was good, but it wasn't from Kentucky. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

So with all my bourbon experience, I have never had a "bourbon and branch".

Gary

TNbourbon
05-06-2004, 14:36
You might be interested in this exchange of letters (see attachment -- Adobe Reader required) between government trade representatives from the U.S. and Australia in March on this very issue. Looks like if Aussie retailers continue to water it down, they'll have to call it something else.

cowdery
05-06-2004, 15:08
I did some research into the whole "bourbon and branch" thing. Technically, 'branch' water is water from a branch of a river. Practically, it seems to just be a euphemism--and a somewhat pretentious one at that--for water.

bobbyc
05-06-2004, 19:51
Heck, when he is there and I have visitors during the daylight hours he has always taken the time to say hello and talk with them Every, time



Like this Day (http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=23360&page=1&view=collaps ed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) When several of us met Max and he said goodbye to us by name, That's a personal touch you don't get everyday or everywhere!

Thank you profusely, BettyeJo and all at Heaven Hill!

boone
05-07-2004, 06:13
They cannot exceed one tenth over or two tenths under the stated proof http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I mentioned earlier that there is a machine in the Lab that measures proof. You inject a specific amount and it will calculate all the specks for in a matter of minutes.

It's a different story in the dump room. I went in there yesterday and talked to "Buzzy" (workin' foreman) I didn't see one of those machines (that measures proof) back there so I asked him did he take his "high proof" samples to the Lab for proof check?...

Well, it was very interesting to say the least. I can't describe this little gadget that he showed me. I forgot what it's called. Temperature, is the major factor along with lots and lots of numbers. I will take my camera to work with me and take pictures. It was really neat. Lots and lots of numbers... I was a bit taken with all of it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Ya learn something everyday http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

boone
05-27-2004, 09:46
Here is a picture of the little gadget that they use to check the proof in the processing dept. It's a hydrometer...

(Inset) looks like a big time bobber that ya use when you go fishing http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Shoot, I tried to type the directions on how to get proof of product...but it ain't worth it...It's not hard to do, but it's too time consuming to type all the details about it http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That's Big Dave Civils, in the picture. He has worked at HH for 23 years. His daddy, Paul Civils, used to be a government gauger. Chuck Cowdery, did a story Paul in the Bourbon Country Reader http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif-----

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

P.S. Buzzy, would not let me take his picture and post it here...but he told me to tell ya'll he looks just like Bid Dave..."Bald" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif