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Gillman
07-03-2004, 20:27
"nothing like the wonderful burgoo I was treated to at the Talbot Tavern!"

I was trawling through some old posts and found a short string mentioning burgoo, and above is a quote from one of Mark's postings praising the burgoo of Talbott's.

I fancy myself an amateur food historian and usually I can figure out, if not the exact origin of a dish, at least the country it likely came from. E.g., clearly (New England) cobblers and grunts were English regional foods, the names may have changed along the way but I reckon cobblers are known in some remote town still in Yorkshire, England or one of the Shires..

But I can't figure out burgoo. Since it is a kind of stew, as I write this, I am wondering now if it is a variant spelling and pronunciation of the French, "ragout", meaning stew. Lots of French trappers must have tramped through Kentucky before settlement occurred. Could the old French ragout have been corrupted into "burgoo"? Words often get turned around a bit and this sounds plausible to me. The word burgoo doesn't sound English, Gaelic, German, or American Indian. Where the heck did it come from? (Everything comes from somewhere, at least in part). Does anyone know, or have another theory of the origin of this word? I have had burgoo occasionally in Kentucky and enjoyed it a lot. Some of the older posts speak of bourbon being good to add to burgoo, which sounds like a positive notion.

My problem with a French origin theory is, why would burgoo only be known (if such is the case which I think it is) in Kentucky? The French explorers went all over North America and left plenty of French place names to prove it, Detroit, Coeur d'Alene, Des Moines, Louisville, etc.

Who makes burgoo in our crowd, Bobby does your family make one?

Gary

Gillman
07-03-2004, 20:38
Could burgoo be a compound word, a combination of "bourbon" and "ragout" - abbreviated over time to, "bour-gout"..? I think this is possible except the burgoos I had in Kentucky did not have bourbon added (as far as I know). I think (with due modesty) I may be on to something here..

Gary

ratcheer
07-03-2004, 21:16
I recently read a mention of burgoo in one of Patrick O'Brian's excellent Jack Aubrey (aka, Master and Commander) novels, Post Captain.

O'Brian is lauded for his meticulous research, so I am sure the reference has basis in fact. The book is set in the British Navy, circa 1800.

Tim

Gillman
07-04-2004, 03:28
Thanks, Tim.

Is this author American or British (or Irish)?

When he refers to burgoo is it in the context of the Southern U.S., e.g., British navy men encountering the dish there? Or is it presented as part of the British navy mess? If latter this may mean the term is a British expression, maybe an old English regional food name which the navy spread to certain parts of the world. I could see Englishmen turning "ragout" into "burgoo" through how the foreign word sounded to their ears, but Southerners might have done this too.

Could the word burgoo have an African or African-American origin..?

Gary

ratcheer
07-04-2004, 05:59
I can do a little research and find the background of the author.

But, in the novel, the burgoo was served as part of a meal to the British naval officers. And, in the previous novel, but not in this one, they had only the slightest contact with Americans. The main subject is the conflict with the French and Spanish revolving around Napoleon.

Tim

Gillman
07-04-2004, 06:08
Thanks, I should have thought of this first but a quick web search pulled up www.burgoo.org (http://www.burgoo.org) which gives information on its history. A British origin is offered as likely, which ties in to your suggestion, Tim. Also, it is mentioned ragout may be the origin too, even bulgher (the wheat), which sounds unlikely unless burgoo is a shortened form of "bulghur ragout". All these ideas may be true, however and relate in some way. Many French words entered the British culinary lexicon in altered form. There are hundreds of examples, I'll give only one: kickshaws is, or was, a kind of appetizer or small meal, it comes from "quelque chose", or "something". I could see English officers mangling the word "ragout" after a rum or two (or in jest) to form, "burgoo". The Oxford dictionary considers it an old British term for a thin gruel or soup again with a naval connection. And the site makes it clear there are centers of burgoo interest in the States outside of Kentucky, e.g., Illinois. But why would an old naval dish end up far inland in Kentucky..? One of the mysteries of food history.. In Quebec, a British naval dish brought to the Quebec City and Montreal ports was "sea pie", a dish cooked on a ship, a boiled dish with a topping of suet pudding. It could involve fish but more generally meat. This is known today in Quebec as "cipaille". It is a Quebec French word now but derives from the English sea pie.

Gary

N.B. Through the miracle again of the web I discern that in Vancouver, Canada there is a restaurant called Burgoo which specialises in stews. Its menu can be perused on-line and the stew line-up sounds great. Kentucky Burgoo is first on the list and the recipe sounds like a good one (including pork, chicken, various vegetables). Beef Burgundy is listed, so are various East Indian lentil and other dishes. It all sounds great and don't we (many of us) live in a multi-cultural world..?

bobbyc
07-04-2004, 11:59
Who makes burgoo in our crowd, Bobby does your family make one?





We don't have a heirloom recipe for it. At the cookout here in 2002, Vickie Spencer brought her Bourbonic Burgoo. It was very tasty as I recall. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Gillman
07-04-2004, 14:19
Thanks, Bobby, and yes, I recall reading in the string something about an atomic, bourbonic, bur-goo.

Sounds like a good rap lyric. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

I would be interested if others in Our Crowd would contribute their favorite recipes if they make this dish. I intend to try it at home. Hey, if they can make it in Vancouver, I can do as well or better in Toronto: we're 3000 miles or so closer to Kentucky, eh? (With apologies to my countryman, Dave M). http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

ratcheer
07-04-2004, 18:54
Gary, your powers of research seem to far exceed mine. Excellent info!

Tim

ratcheer
07-04-2004, 18:56
Burgoo is virtually unknown in my neck of the woods (AL and GA). But Georgia can provide some mean Brunswick stews. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Tim

Gillman
07-04-2004, 19:59
Not exceed, Tim, you were the one who twigged me to the U.K. connection!

Gary

bobbyc
07-06-2004, 12:41
If one follows your link , Gary , and also goes to the" What is Burgoo anyway" They will find this picture. I couldn't resist, It looks as if Craig Beam could also cook up a little Burgoo! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gillman
07-06-2004, 16:47
Yes I saw it and it's a great picture mostly because it's real. Such expressions of tradition are often to be found in areas where (to state the obvious) change comes more slowly than other places. Not to say being real doesn't exist in many contexts, and also (or what comes to saying the same thing) there are many kinds of communities - our online forum here provided courtesy of Jim Butler is one I value very highly.

Gary

tlsmothers
07-07-2004, 21:31
Thanks for bringing attention to burgoo. I've never heard of it and am now eager to try my hand at it. My version will have to have some bourbon added. Ya know, a little for the pot and a little for the cook. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paradox
07-08-2004, 16:32
I'd call the Talbot Tavern in Bardstown and get their recipe, it was SO good in 2002! Burgoo is one of the dishes I wait to have every year when we go down to KY...

brendaj
07-08-2004, 20:05
Hey Tonya,
I'll jump in here. After that terrific Bourbon Jelly, I owe you one
I can't take credit for this recipe, it came from a friend in Owensboro. I've used it a couple of times, and it's the real stuff. I don't have a grinder, so I just chopped things real fine. The original called for pounds and gallons of stuff, so we cut it down:

Frank's Burgoo
2 1/2 lbs. beef
2 1/2 lbs. mutton
1 hen
3 qts. whole tomatoes
1 qt. tomato puree
1 qt. ketchup
2 qts, baby limas
40 oz. white shoepeg corn
1 pt. salt
1/2 lb. pepper
4 oz. worchestershire sauce
4 oz. vinegar
1 6 oz. bottle Frank's Hot Sauce
1 lb. onion
5 lbs. potatoes
2 lbs. cabbage
1 lemon

Boil beef, mutton and hen for approx. 3 hrs (until cooked). Beef will not take quite that long. Remove from water, cool and remove bones. Coarse grind meat. Strain broth left in kettle to remove all bones.
Put all meat back in the kettle and add tomatoes, puree, ketchup and baby limas.
Grind onions, potatoes, cabbage and add to kettle. After all ingredients are in kettle, finish filling with water. After ingredients have boiled for about 1 hr., add corn, hot sauce, vinegar, salt, pepper, worchestershire sauce and lemon. Don't add these ingredients all at one time, add slowly until desired taste. Remove the lemon after one hour.


Here are some old photos of the Owensboro BBQ Festival, where Burgoo and mutton rule:
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/burgoo/bf98.html
And Moonlite BBQ (http://www.moonlite.com/c-Burgoo.html) serves it all year.

Bj

tlsmothers
07-08-2004, 20:26
Thanks, m'dear! I can't wait to try this stuff (with a little booze added in). I can't believe I've never even heard of burgoo before, but then again, I grew up in the backwoods of Alabama far, far away from Kentucky. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif This sounds like it will be so good with some iron skillet cornbread made with lard and buttermilk. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

brendaj
07-09-2004, 09:06
I grew up in the backwoods of Alabama far, far away from Kentucky.


Geez, I always thought of Alabama as a neighboring state http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif (Yer just the other side of Tennesee http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif)
Really, I believe Burgoo is just Kentucky's version of Brunswick Stew. Originally, both were made with various little woodland critters http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif Or, maybe Brunwick Stew is just a Virginia version of Burgoo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif. But they seem to be an awful lot alike.



iron skillet cornbread made with lard and buttermilk.


Ouuu Baby! I know some of the guys here are cringing right now. But I agree 100%! If you want a flakey crust or decent cornbread...gotta use lard http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
And, of course... add alittle Bourbon to everything.
Bj

Gillman
07-09-2004, 16:16
Interesting recipe. I have read that mutton was substituted for game to lend a savoury "wild" taste. However, mutton is also used in Kentucky bar-be-cue. In 30 years of reading about regional foods in the West, there is one other country where I've read mutton is, or was, a tradition: Britain and specifically England. In my view, Englishmen brought the taste to Kentucky and it held on there through sheer tradition, tenacity. I mean, Kentucky is not more suited to raising sheep than many other areas. And even if it was taste would have turned to lamb, as it did finally in U.K. That mutton held on in old Kentucky is a testament to ancestral practices, even if (I would think) people can't recall any more where the mutton thing came from. Look at any regional collection of recipes in England (that has any pretention to authenticity) and mutton pops up, and if I looked hard enough I think I could find an analogue to how it is used in burgoo (itself courtesy Royal Navy circa 1700's). Are Americans aware of this enormous contribution the British made to American mores and foodways? German-speakers in whiskey, yes (and in food to a degree, that's another story); but give Britain its due too...

Gary

tlsmothers
07-09-2004, 17:46
Lard is the best way to go, I agree. A coupla weeks ago my sweet pea was sent to the store for some shortenin' to make corn bread. He came back with, "Bad news is they didn't have shortening. Good news is they had lard." I almost ate the whole pan of cornbread all by myself! Nothing that a little bourbon in the blood won't thin out, right?

I wonder what neighbors would think if I got a gun out and shot a few squirrels for some burgoo. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

cowdery
07-09-2004, 21:50
I once had a girlfriend who was very country and she used to tell about, when she was married, her husband going out in the morning and shooting a couple of squirrels, and she would fry them up for breakfast. That blew my mind, urban Yankee that I am.

She also married the guy when she was 16 and he was 21, and she wasn't even pregnant. Now that's country.

gr8erdane
07-09-2004, 23:55
I wonder what neighbors would think if I got a gun out and shot a few squirrels for some burgoo.



Oh my goodness, you would sure be hard up to shoot city squirrels if they're anything like their St Louis City cousins. Practically tree rats here in the city. Got to go out in the country for good squirrel. Nothing beats a good squirrel gravy on hot biscuits (yes, made with lard). BTW, lard gets a bad rap. Everyone says it increases your cholesterol and clogs arteries. Anyone who ever handled the stuff would know it just lubricates the circulatory system into a platelet superhighway. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif

gr8erdane
07-09-2004, 23:58
No Chuck, if it was REAL country they would have courted for five years first and then gotten married at 16 and 21. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

boone
07-10-2004, 09:28
I have read that mutton was substituted for game to lend a savoury "wild" taste.



Gary,

I had a post in this forum but deleted it through "pressure from my family". They would not let me leave it here. Oh Well, I don't know if you saw it but I hope you did http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif Now that was "backwood's country" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

To go over a tad bit of it. Burgoo was not burgoo unless it had wild game it it. Sheep ain't wild "around here" http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The types of meats used were rattlesnake, squirrel, rabbit, quail, turtle and like I mentioned before, opossum...Good grief http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif they will hunt, kill and eat anything http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BTW---When they told me opossum was in there there was no way I was gonna eat it! They have had goat roast up there and one time they had a "Ponie roast"...

Well Gaaaleeeeeee, Ethel..."Old Bess" is down out in that thar field so's how 'bout we have a shin dig? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gifLMAO!!!!!!! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

One more thing to add...Every year, the Sunday after the Derby Bardstown hosts the Kentucky Colonel's B-B-Q...The traditional "Burgoo" in always on the menu...It's a Kentucky tradition http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif This is where that man from Scotland in one of those skirts, grabed one of my shoes, poured his beer into it, and downed it right before my eyes http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif Just goes ta show ya...folks will eat most anything and drink from most anything too http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

Gillman
07-10-2004, 12:48
Thanks, Bettye Jo, most interesting. Clearly the Anerican burgoo has changed from the old British sailor dish which essentially was a kind of gruel, a porridge of bulghur wheat and/or other grains, I'm sure. Still, the texture that came from that survives, I think, in Kentucky's burgoo, except now it comes from the potatos, corn, okra dissolving in the liquid. (This inference is based on one I had in Louisville). Sounds like burgoo is something for special occasions as opposed to a, "Mom, what's for dinner tonight?"-type dish. Anyway, I'll try to get some game for my dish when I make it. You can purchase certain kinds of wild meat here (e.g. caribou, boars) and sounds like it might go well in that burgoo.

Question: has anyone ever heard of any kind of fish being used in burgoo, or is that a no-no?

Gary

tlsmothers
07-10-2004, 21:03
Yeah, the City squirrels walk right up to you and hold a gun to your head for some food. I laid down in the sun in the park the other day, and I feared for my life as the squirrels gathered around not afraid of much of anything. Rats with tails! Hmmm...now there's something wild to throw in burgoo...some New York City sewer rats!

gr8erdane
07-11-2004, 23:19
Be very careful, from what I hear of New York sewer rats, they are big enough to throw YOU in the burgoo. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

brendaj
07-12-2004, 09:03
now there's something wild to throw in burgoo...some New York City sewer rats!


YeeeGawds! An' I thought it sounded gross when Gary mentioned fish... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif
Ya'll are starting to really creep me out... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

pepcycle
07-12-2004, 15:58
I have been enjoying this Burgoo thread. I've asked some folks around here about what goes into burgoo.
Here are The Burgoo Rules as I understand them:
1. The meat must be acquired by acute lead poisoning. (That implies, you can't pick it up off the road, buy it or have it die on your property)You gotta shoot it.
2. You can use just about any type of meat.
3. Real Burgoo Gourmets include other gizzards as well as the tough cuts. I have it on good authority that squirrel brain is the preferred finishing touch, about the size of a walnut with a unique flavor and texture
4. Burgoo must be cooked a really long time. (No one really agrees, but in Lawrenceburg, they keep the same pot going for about 4 days during The Burgoo Festival, adding additional ingredients as they go)
5. A wood fire is preferred and bits of ash that float into the mixture are required. (pallet wood makes nice ash flakes)
6. The pot must be black. Most say cast iron, but the evidence is that any metal that has been over a fire long enough to be completely black on the outside is good.
7. You have to stir it with a big wooden paddle. No spoons or metal objects in the pot
8. Bite gently, lead shot is considered an acceptable hazard, like the occasional fish bone in fish stew.
9. The best burgoo is the one you're raised on. Regions are proud of their burgoo and nobody else's is considered "right".
10. Nobody puts bourbon in burgoo. Why? If people want bourbon flavor, there's no reason to put it in the burgoo. Just drink some. About as silly as bourbon flavored cigars.
11. I suggested that burgoo might be a "hunter's stew" and was told in no uncertain terms that burgoo was made at home and at fairs, not in the woods. No reason given. That was just silly. You fry it, grill it or roast it on a stick in the woods.
12. Nobody brings burgoo to a covered dish supper. (Couldn't decide if it was because they don't like to share it or they know that nobody else is going to think that their burgoo is "right".
13. You either love it or hate it. Half say they would never touch it, the other half swear its the best thing since The Hot Brown.
I continue to be amazed with interesting foods in Kentucky.
Here are some others that I never had before moving here:
1. Paw Paw: a mango like fruit that grows in clusters like bananas
2. Poke: A green made famous by Salad Annie, but apparently poisonous if not prepared correctly. (another story)
3. Fried Banana Peppers: Ya, just like it sounds.
4. Lamb Fries (with cream gravy): Fried, different
5. Hickory Nuts
6. Black Walnuts: Outrageously Walnutty
7. Tigger Melon: Orange and Yellow, grapefruit sized, tastes like cucumber and is used as an air freshener.
8. Wild Ginger
9. Ramp: Now this is the stinkiest leek/scallion-like thing you will ever eat. They grow wild in the spring. They sell for $18.00/lb in NY.
10.Ale-8-One: Winchester Swamp Water: The name is a play on words (A Late One) A sugary, caffeine ginger/citrus soda. Not really like any other. Now available in diet. The green bottle is the preferred projectile for roadside littering and bike rider whacking. (another story)

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Gillman
07-12-2004, 17:36
Great, many thanks!

You've emulated my non-brevity but the information conveyed is commensurate!

Lamb fries. Ramp. Paw-paw. Wow!

Gary

P.s. What the heck is Hot Brown??

Paradox
07-12-2004, 17:46
Had one at the Brown Hotel last year... Great stuff. Here's the recipe. (http://www.brownhotel.com/hotbrown.php3)

Actually, a bunch of us ate there last year (me and Stacy, Chris and Kristin and Koji and Yuki) and if I recall we all had hot browns! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Sandwich/HotBrownSandwich.jpg

Gillman
07-12-2004, 18:04
Interesting, Mark, thanks! I passed by the Brown Hotel while looking for a similar pile nearby (the hotel with German-American name that escapes me for a moment, although its bourbon bar doesn't http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

Gary

Is the Brown of the Brown Hotel the same as in Brown Forman, i.e., of the same family?

Paradox
07-12-2004, 18:13
After dinner we all met up with Omar and Mike V. at the D. Marie Lounge atop the Galt House... They had some bourbon selection there! A little info with a small pic of the bar can be found here. (http://www.galthouse.com/dining.asp#lobby)

I don't think it does Gary, but here's some hotel history. (http://www.thebrownhotel.com/hotelhistory.php3)

Gillman
07-12-2004, 18:43
Thanks, Mark, an interesting story. But I've got to wonder if the Louisville-area Browns (the major business names) aren't related somehow. I believe Brown & Williamson, the tobacco concern, also was founded in or near Louisville and I wonder if the Brown in that company was connected to the Browns in distilling.

Gary

ratcheer
07-12-2004, 19:00
I always thought it was "poke salad" too, but the correct term is "poke salat". Here is a pretty good reference: http://www.watersheds.org/nature/poke.htm By the way, I have it growing in my lawn and I pull it and pull it, but it keeps coming back. I haven't eaten any of it in about 50 years.

Black walnuts are wonderful, aren't they? My grandfather used to have a few trees on a city lot in an old section of Atlanta. I loved it when those nuts came in. If I'm not mistaken, you only get a lot of nuts every other year.

Tim

boone
07-13-2004, 00:17
Geezzzzz Mr. Ed...

You forgot the caviar of all caviars... Mountain Oysters http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and Chitlins http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just goes ta show ya (like I said before) folks will eat anything http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bettye Jo http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowdery
07-13-2004, 01:03
The Brown and Seelbach really aren't that close to each other. The Brown in on the southern edge of downtown while the Seelbach is central. The Hyatt Regency is near the Seelbach. Then there is the Galt House, on the river, at the northern edge of downtown.

I can save people some trouble by telling them that the Hot Browns at the Brown Hotel are no better than the ones you can get anywhere else in town. It's a pretty easy dish to bring off.

But delicious.

cowdery
07-13-2004, 01:36
Brown is a prominent name in Kentucky and I know of no common ancestor. There are the whiskey Browns, who started with the half-brothers George Garvin and John Thompson Street just after the Civil War.

Then there are the political Browns, mostly all named John Young Brown, democrats, including the current Secretary of State and a recent governor.

And J. Gramham Brown, lumber baron and developer, who was a Republican political leader, although never in elective office, in the 20s.

The tobacco Browns were never a Louisville company. Brown & Williamson was started in North Carolina in the 1870s. The company located to Louisville in 1927 after it was sold to London-based British American Tobacco (BAT).

Gillman
07-13-2004, 05:44
An impressive command of business and social history, thanks. My peregrination in quarters of Louisville was on a Sunday during my recent trip, looking for the Seelbach bar for a whiskey before going to the airport. Unfortunately the bar (as I should have guessed) was closed, as was the one at Brown's Hotel. Still, it was a good chance to see some historic and other Louisville architecture. The Seelbach is always a favorite and I like to spend time in its lobby and admire the marble floors, the frescos, the gilt. It evokes a grand age when cities were the locus for families of all social rank and entertaining was done in the city at such impressive piles. I imagine that the balls and fetes that used to be held at these hotels are now held at country clubs and other such retreats. Something has been lost, here. The city nourished fortunes that now look elsewhere to disport and show the emblems of social standing. Still, in many other cities, the equivalent of the Seelbach and Brown have been long closed; in Louisville they carry on and that's a good thing.

Gary

brendaj
07-13-2004, 10:23
Chuck,


I can save people some trouble by telling them that the Hot Browns at the Brown Hotel are no better than the ones you can get anywhere else in town. It's a pretty easy dish to bring off.


You're absolutely right. A very forgiving dish. And despite the recipe the Brown Hotel puts out there now, the Hot Browns I remember at the Brown (as a child) had a more cheddar based sauce. Almost anything goes, I have eaten it with broccoli on top of the tomato.
Here's a couple more recipes: Hot Brown page (http://www.bourbonrecipes.com/hotbrown/hotbrown.html) . (someday I'm gonna finish that website...;-)
Honestly, I have added Bourbon to my cheese sauce the last couple of times I've made a Hot Brown...and ya know...I like it.

They're also a great way to use Thanksgiving turkey (eternity is one person and a cooked turkey).
Bj

tlsmothers
07-13-2004, 14:44
10. Nobody puts bourbon in burgoo. Why? If people want bourbon flavor, there's no reason to put it in the burgoo. Just drink some. About as silly as bourbon flavored cigars.



I figure burgoo is open to include whatever the cook wants to throw in. If I happen to drink too much bourbon and some of it sloshes from my glass or bottle into the pot, so be it!

I found the following quote on a KY tourism web site and got a chuckle:Bourbon & Burgoo (http://www.kytourism.com/KentuckyHeritage/bourbon.html)


In this state you may find bourbon not only in your glass but on your plate. Kentuckians are fond of and familiar enough with bourbon to cook with it. Experts in the art of burgoo—a stew featuring beef, lamb, chicken, and less common meats, plus okra, tomatoes, corn, lima and green beans, pepper, and other ingredients—say that bourbon is essential, because the stew must cook outdoors overnight in a large kettle, and the preparers need something to sip as they tend the fire.

pepcycle
07-13-2004, 16:42
This was info I gathered in passing, not an exhaustive survey. I guess that would make Lexington Burgoo "Not Right" in comparison to others. Always a risk.
Please take whatever liberties you like with the recipe.
I'm no expert, having only eaten it a few times and never having prepared it. (I haven't fired a weapon in years. BTW, I noticed that no game birds or waterfowl ever appear in the recipes)
Today, I heard that someone adds grape jelly their burgoo.
Go figure.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

pepcycle
07-13-2004, 16:44
Non-Brevity noted.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

pepcycle
07-13-2004, 16:50
Rocky Moutain Oysters and Chitterlins.
Seen'm in the stores, haven't made the leap. RMO's are intimidating in size compared to lamb fries or the bite size turkey fries (which are great in brown gravy)
I saw a lady in Critchfield's Meats, standing at the meat case just poking at RMO's with her finger. She asked the butcher what they were. I thought she was going to die when he whispered the "real name" into her ear.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

ratcheer
07-13-2004, 16:51
peregrination



??

I am fairly widely read, but you got me on that one. The only thing I can come up with is "peregrine falcon". I must go look it up.

Tim

Barrel_Proof
07-13-2004, 18:35
peregrination



??



As used by one of our resident wordsmiths, Gary Gillman, peregrination referred to his "travels/journey/meandering" in Louisville. Given the warp and weft of this thread, the word could also be used to refer to the "widely ranging discourse" it has become!

cowdery
07-13-2004, 18:51
Thanks for rescuing the Seelbach go to a Louisville developer named Roger Davis, a retired TV actor best known for his roles in "Dark Shadows" and "Alias Smith and Jones."

Gillman
07-14-2004, 01:03
Thanks, Cliff, and indeed this thread has become long and winding, kind of a "pot-pourri" but isn't that what burgoo is..? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I do find words interesting and Tim's comment has made me realise why the kind of falcon he mentioned is termed peregrinating. I learn a lot about words from our forum here. Just the other day, I learned the original meaning of shindig when Bettye Jo spelled it in two words (shin dig): clearly it means a dance (another way to say, kick up your heels), which explains its more general meaning of a party. I always wondered where that word came from!

Gary

Barrel_Proof
07-14-2004, 19:18
I have some first hand experience with the avian peregrines. For the first few years of my commercial fishing life, I ran my fishwheel below a bluff on the Yukon River between Nulato and Koyukuk. Each summer a peregrine would return to nest on the rocky bluff above my wheel.

This "duck hawk" --the name used in the Alaskan bush to refer to peregrines-- is, without question, the most aggressive creature I have ever observed. At fish camp we are worried primarily about bears (and keep loaded long rifles on hand as a consequence), but at this first camp I maintained we also had to deal with this little dynamo who would dive bomb any human, dog, or moose that dared meander on the beach below the nest.

An amazing creature, the peregrine falcon:

doubleblank
07-15-2004, 09:18
When I was working for a living, I officed in a 70 story building in downtown Houston. There was a priviate dining club on the 70th floor. Two peregrines decide to nest up there during their migration south. They feasted on squab all day long. Never saw them dive bomb a human, but from 70 stories up, they had quite the view.

Randy B

musher
07-15-2004, 20:43
peregrination



??

I am fairly widely read, but you got me on that one. The only thing I can come up with is "peregrine falcon". I must go look it up.

Tim


It took me a little while to realize why I had no trouble with the meaning and usage of the word, but I finally remembered that Frank Herbert made use of the word in one or more of his Dune series novels.

angelshare
07-29-2004, 14:04
Thanks, Bobby, and yes, I recall reading in the string something about an atomic, bourbonic, bur-goo.

Sounds like a good rap lyric. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.



Or a punk lyric?

At the risk of breaching food forum etiquette, I finally figured out why "burgoo," a food which I have never eaten, struck a chord, so to speak.

This was the album title of a 1990 album by punk rockers
Antietam (http://www.interpunk.com/item.cfm?Item=93304&). I don't own the album but was reminded of its existence in this month's Spin magazine. Alternative country artist Ryan Adams named Antietam's "Burgoo" as one of the ten albums that influenced him most.

Not sure if there are any bonus recipes with the album. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif However, given how much I like Ryan Adams, I may try to locate a vinyl copy somewhere.

(Bourbonitis Blues, do you know more about this one?)

tlsmothers
05-18-2005, 18:14
Brenda, just a word to say that I used your recipe for burgoo for Derby Day. Mighty nice! I threw in a few additions of goat and venison. Had so much left over I've stored a bunch in the freezer!

brendaj
06-04-2005, 13:33
Brenda, just a word to say that I used your recipe for burgoo for Derby Day. Mighty nice! I threw in a few additions of goat and venison. Had so much left over I've stored a bunch in the freezer!



Hey 'Nell,
Glad you liked it. You're exactly right, real Burgoo contains goat and venison (and sometimes other stuff people don't want to know about... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif). It's just that most folks can't get that stuff. Whoohoo, you gotta tell me, you had that shipped up to you? How cool is that?

Too bad I can't be up there with you for the Belmont, drinking Bourbon and cheering Alex on to his next win... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. And, I could help you get rid of some of that excess Burgoo... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Bj

Gillman
06-04-2005, 16:00
On another board (but also this one) we discussed the etymology of the term "burgoo". The term was a British naval dish in pre-Revolutionary times, and migrated to America, and somehow has held on in certain areas. The term has been associated (this by accepted dictionary sources) with the word "bulgher", i.e., bulgher wheat, because it seems originally burgoo was a wheat-based gruel. Later people added meats to it, and in frontier conditions it is easy to see venison and goat meat or mutton would have been used or any readily available furred or feathered meat. If I am not mistaken, to this day the dish is noted for its slightly thick texture, usually imparted by flour but it could be from a potato or other starchy thickener, and thus we have a link still to the British naval and Colonial origins of this dish. Now you say, what does "bulgher" have to do with the word, "burgoo"? Ah, you see there is an alternate spelling and pronunciation for bulgher: it is, "burghul". Say that in a soft southern American accent which (to this day) bears vestiges of its British roots and what do you get? Burgoo. Oh yeah.. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But what is atomic burgoo? A departure here from the British navy of the 1700's. I have an idea but cannot eludicate and leave it to others to give the lowdown (and, if minded, a recipe). http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

tlsmothers
07-27-2005, 22:58
Brenda, I must say that the burgoo froze really well. I just recently finished off the remainder of our leftovers. Great use of those little Chinese take out soup containers!

brendaj
07-28-2005, 08:33
LeNell,
Very cool.
I'm thinking maybe I'll make up a big 'ol mess for the Festival!
Bj