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jeff
06-20-2005, 11:46
Post it here, and be sure to include specific brand information. I am looking to expand my martini repertoire and, if I find one I like here, I'll gladly take credit for it as my own http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/thankyousign.gif

BourbonJoe
06-20-2005, 11:56
Take a great dry Vermouth and coat the ice cubes in a glass or tumbler. Pour excess away. Fill tumbler with Bombay Saphire Gin. Strain into martini glass or leave on the rocks. Add a dash of olive juice and three large olives. Enjoy.
Joe http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif

voigtman
06-20-2005, 13:26
Great timing, Jeff: I just had my first martini last evening and it was quite enjoyable. (I should say it was actually a vodka martini.) We had a guest who likes them, so I bought glasses, a shaker, Ciroc vodka, VYA extra dry vermouth and unstuffed olives. I used Poland Spring water for the ice cubes I filled the shaker with, added the vodka and vermouth in about a 4 to 1 ratio and gave it about 10 seconds of real hard shaking. Then strained the martinis into glasses and added the toothpicked olives. Very good and surprisingly refreshing, but I will be trying the Bombay sapphire recipe before too long! Looking forward to seeing other recipes/techniques. Cheers, Ed

Gillman
06-20-2005, 16:29
I like Beefeater Gin. It has a big flavor, not as soft as some but firm, steely and full of juniper and orange peel. Add a little white vermouth (Noilly Prat is good). A good Martini needs a certain amount of vermouth, more than a coating on the cubes but less than many people add, say a half-ounce to three ounces of Beefeater. Add two small stuffed olives. Swirl over cubed ice in a rocks glass and pour neat into a stemmed cocktail glass. The statement from a 1970's book I once quoted in connection with good straight vodka, "more like an injection than a drink", is apposite, except this injection has lots of taste.

Gary

P.S. Orange bitters were an addition to the Martini originally and since Liquor Barn (not far from Jeff's location) sells the Collins type, I'd advise to add a little, but just a drop or two.

ratcheer
06-20-2005, 18:38
Let's see, its actually quite simple:

Two oz. good British gin (Beefeater's or Bombay will do just fine)

One tablespoon dry vermouth (I usually just use Noilly Prat, but I prefer Martini and Rossi). This gives a bone dry 6:1 ratio.

Stir with about five or six ice cubes until its as cold as its going to get. Strain into a cocktail glass with one or two olives. Drink before it has any chance to warm up. I'm not saying chug it, but it should be gone in two minutes or less. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif Then, eat the olives. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Tim

ratcheer
06-20-2005, 18:44
I tend to agree, Gary. I've tried a lot of good gins and Beefeater's is probably the best. And, the good old standard bottling is just great. (Same goes for Bombay).

Vodka? No, not that!

Tim

monte
06-20-2005, 21:22
...so I bought glasses, a shaker, Ciroc vodka, VYA extra dry vermouth and unstuffed olives...



OK, give up the secret!! Where'd you get the Vya Vermouth?? I have one bottle, hand smuggled from Kentucky from a store who said they bought the Vya over the Internet, but I can't find it in MA whatsoever! LeNell's was out of it when I visited there too.

I understand the same folks that make Vya also make Essensia dessert type wines, which are widely available in eastern MA, but the Vya vermouth is unobtanium!

Damn tasty vermouth though...

TIA,

-monte-

robbyvirus
06-20-2005, 23:30
6 parts Bombay Sapphire gin (I also like Boodles, and Junipero gin from Anchor Steam) to 1 part dry vermouth. Shaker vigorously with a shaker full of ice. Add a small dash of orange bitters. Garnish with two pimento-stuffed olives. Mmmmm...

One note about vermouth...Martinis today are generally made with much less vermouth than the "classic" recipe, sometimes with just a wave of the vermouth bottle in the direction of the shaker. This is probably due to the (relatively) new popularity of vodka martinis, as opposed to the classic gin martini. Vodka is much less tolerant of vermouth than gin is. Gin and vermouth are a wonderful pair together, but vodka and vermouth are not so great together, so one must hold the vermouth to a minimum.

As James Thurber said about martinis: "One is just right, two is too many, three is not enough..."

cowdery
06-21-2005, 09:10
I prefer Bombay Gin, but find the gin less critical than the vermouth. I like Noilly Pratt but Martini & Rossi will do. I prefer a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of gin to vermouth. I chill the glass, stir the drink in a pitcher and prefer olives as the garnish. Important! Use a glass or plastic stirer but not metal. Don't allow metal of any kind to come in contact with the drink.

jeff
06-21-2005, 09:52
Don't allow metal of any kind to come in contact with the drink.



I'll bite. Why? I guess a metal shaker is out?

dgonano
06-21-2005, 11:24
Nobody seems to like their martini on the rocks. Don't be afraid, just prepare as usual; 3oz Gin, Beefeater is the classic, Bombay Sapphire,standard Bombay or Tanqueray will do, add a splash of vermouth, M & R or Noilly Pratt. Stir in a large glass filled with chipped ice. Strain into a seperate glass containing a few clear cubes. Add a few large olives or or if you prefer a few cocktail onions and call it a "Gibson".

The secret is to cut the gin with the chipped ice. Takes the harshness off the martini. I've been sippin on these for 35 years .

You should adjust the amount of vermouth according to you and your guest's preference. Of course serving "up" in a stemmed glass is a more than acceptible alternative, but me and my old martini buddies have always preferred "on the rocks".

voigtman
06-21-2005, 12:29
Monte, the VYA vermouths (extra dry and also the sweet, which I have not tasted yet) are available at Table & Vine in Northampton, MA and also at Town & Country Liquors in West Springfield, MA. Prices are $20.99 per bottle and plenty in stock. (Town & Country is now actually part of Table & Vine, but is not fully integrated with table & Vine, so some prices are different between the two locations, but not these 2 vermouths). The web site for Table & Vine gives full address and contact info: www.tableandvine.com (http://www.tableandvine.com) Unfortunately, the web site inventory listing is loaded with errors: items listed long after being gone for good, shelf items never making it to the web site (this is true for all the vermouths, actually), etc. But they can be called or e-mailed. No web site for Town & Country. And worst case scenario is I pick you up some, wallet willing! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Cheers, Ed

Well, all these REAL martini recipes have got me wanting to try the Bombay Sapphire/VYA combo and see how it tastes. Think I will wait to the weekend, especially if I try Tim's two minute rule!

musher
06-21-2005, 18:44
Important! Use a glass or plastic stirer but not metal. Don't allow metal of any kind to come in contact with the drink.


Damn! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smiley_acbt.gif

So much for my stainless stell shakers. Even the little strainer thingy is metal were I to decide to stir it in a glass instead of using the shaker.

monte
06-23-2005, 07:51
Monte, the VYA vermouths (extra dry and also the sweet, which I have not tasted yet) are available at Table & Vine in Northampton, MA and also at Town & Country Liquors in West Springfield, MA. Prices are $20.99 per bottle and plenty in stock.




That's great! I've been nursing the one bottle I have and that's not too fun... Western MA is a bit of a hike for me, but I do get out there from time to time. Table & Vine has been on my list of stores to visit for a while, so if I get out west for some hunting, I'll be sure to stop there.




And worst case scenario is I pick you up some, wallet willing! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Cheers, Ed




Thanks for the offer!! Maybe I can make the trip out west as an excuse for a visit?? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif




Well, all these REAL martini recipes have got me wanting to try the Bombay Sapphire/VYA combo and see how it tastes. Think I will wait to the weekend, especially if I try Tim's two minute rule!



I prefer Bombay Sapphire as well, but I've only had it with Noilly Prat - I've been saving my Vya for Manhattans! I'll give it a spin and see how it goes.


Thank for the info, and cheers!

-monte-

voigtman
06-23-2005, 11:55
Table & Vine has been on my list of stores to visit for a while, so if I get out west for some hunting, I'll be sure to stop there.




It is well worth a visit, despite their web site inadequacies: they have the Black Maple Hill 11,14 and 16 YO bourbons and the 18 YO rye plus RR 101 proof, Pappy 15 and the 12 YO Lot B bourbon. Also the 10 YO 107 proof. The Town & Country location has Hirsch 16 (gold foil @ $64) and the Old Rip 15 YO, 107 proof bourbon (old squat bottle, Frankfort) at $41. Also, Spirit Haus in Amherst has Rock Hill farms and a bunch of other nice bourbons. So, some reasonably good places to visit.




Maybe I can make the trip out west as an excuse for a visit?? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif




Sure! I pretty sure we have a mutual SB.com friend too: WEG3. People here are the best. I'm easy to locate: just PM me.

Cheers, Ed

cowdery
06-23-2005, 12:02
I forget where I learned that, but there does seem to be a metallic taste that is picked up if any metal is in the mix. I have a glass stir rod for my martini pitcher and my ice cube trays are plastic.

pepcycle
06-27-2005, 19:34
Add a sprig of bruised Rosemary to the mix.
I prefer Tanqueray Ten this week.
It adds a whole new dimension to a Martini. You can even use it as a garnish.
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

monte
06-27-2005, 20:23
Wow - great idea!

-monte-

Jake_Parrott
06-30-2005, 15:48
Are Gibsons okay? Following the lead of mixmaster Todd Thrasher at Eve in Alexandria, I infused some cocktail onions with saffron and put a drop of the liquid in a Bombay regular 4:1 (ish) mix. It's just pale yellow, and the onions themselves are just brilliant at the end of the drink.

pepcycle
07-01-2005, 13:05
Its not an original idea. I read it in Wine Spectator, I think. It really complements the herbal juniper notes in the Gin.
I've tried a few other common herbs (basil, mint,oregano,sage,cardomom, marjoram,) but none of them work. That was a long afternoon. Maybe catnip next?

gr8erdane
07-02-2005, 11:35
The best martini recipe I know is 4:1 Bombay Sapphire to Noily Prat, stir gently and add olive. Then hand it to the person on your right, left, or across the table and pour 3 oz of ANY bourbon in your own glass and enjoy. Sorry, but I've never developed a taste for martinis.

wrbriggs
07-08-2005, 14:19
The best martini recipe I know is 4:1 Bombay Sapphire to Noily Prat, stir gently and add olive. Then hand it to the person on your right, left, or across the table and pour 3 oz of ANY bourbon in your own glass and enjoy. Sorry, but I've never developed a taste for martinis.


I've got to agree with Dane on this one, Gin just tastes too much like a... a... well, Christmas Tree comes to mind.

My wife, however, loves Gin, but not Martinis. A very nice refreshing drink that she makes in the summer is:
2 oz. Tanqueray Ten
Splash (tablespoon maybe? she doesn't measure) Noilly Pratt Sweet Vermouth
Club soda

Stir the gin and the vermouth with ice, pour into a Martini glass and top up with an ounce or so of club soda. Sometimes she adds a twist of lemon... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/puke.gif

Despite the fact that it doesn't taste too terrible, I think this drink is an abortion of taste and decency. But she likes it, so who am I to judge? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/falling.gif

ratcheer
07-16-2005, 16:45
For some odd reason, I have a hankering for a martini, tonight. I don't have any great gin, but I do have a bottle of Broker's, from Britain. It will have to do (and it will probably do nicely). I will be using my recipe from the above post.

I hope I can find some olives. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Tim

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-18-2005, 06:44
Hello everybody,
Had my first martini today, inspired by this thread. I followed Gary's post most closely, though none too closely. Beefeater Gin 57% abv with Martini and Rossi extra dry vermouth 18 % abv. One ounce of vermouth, two of gin as per the instructions on the side of my cocktail glass, (I had meant to use less vermouth, but my hand slipped. It often does that when I pour bourbon, too...) swirled with a handful of ice. I let it melt until the melt rate had nearly stopped and then strained it to another glass. I used my fingers as a strainer to avoid metal as per Chuck's post, (Well, he didn't say to use your fingers, that was my innovation!) One small cube got through. I tried to drink it while it was still cold as per Tim's post. Altogether an enjoyable drink. I will try it again with less vermouth in the near future.
Ed

OneCubeOnly
07-24-2005, 17:27
Here's my personal recipe:

2 oz. Plymouth Gin. (The gin matters folks! I've tried many of the premiums including Bombay Sapphire and Plymouth seems to work best in martinis.)

1/2 oz. Martini & Rossi Extra Dry Vermouth (I'm not a vermouth expert, but this seems to work well.) Note: this is a 4-to-1 ratio which is a little lean, but it tastes great if you use these components.

Shake the begezuss out of it with tons of ice. Forget the whole 'bruising the gin' myth...the drink will be cloudy and have ice crystals floating, but that's part of the experience for this recipe!

Two queen-size olives. (Yes, two--one just doesn't do it. My personal preference is jalapeno-stuffed, but standard grocery-store pimento-stuffed work well too). Don't skimp here either--the olive is a main component of the experience.

Of course, YMMV, but I think they're awesome.
Enjoy!

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-24-2005, 21:31
Hello All,
I have a dumb question. Does Vermouth need to be refrigerated once it has been opened?
Ed

Gillman
07-25-2005, 04:13
It does not since it is a fortified wine (wine with a spirits addition) and reaches about 20% abv (give or take) -it should be robust enough to take room temperature. Also, I'd be surprised if much of the vermouth in the market today isn't pasteurised (i.e., going through a steam tunnel for 20 minutes or at least subjected to the less intensive "flash" process). That being said, all vermouth in my experience will go off if kept too long on the shelf. It oxidises and the tell-tale signs, as with beer and wines, is a port-wine-like taste, an dull fruity taste I don't much like except in genuine port itself (where controlled conditions ensure the effect is a positive one). Both red and white vermouth are subject to oxidation if kept too long and the off-taste will not improve any cocktail, of course. Therefore, I think any vermouth should be used up relatively quickly once opened - say in a few months. Much the same advice is given for open bottles of sherry or port. Only whiskey in my experience seems exempt from oxidation if the bottles are well sealed, or if oxidation does take place it is a slow process and different from what affects the other drinks mentioned. I.e., long aeration seems possibly to improve the taste of whiskey although it is hard to tell because most whiskey is drunk as acquired. Nor can one usefully really compare old bottles of the same brand with new because generally the old bottles won't have been made exactly the same way as the new. Doug's tests show that much of the old stock was better, I believe this is because the whiskey was made differently then, not because it improved in the bottle in the last 20 or 30 years. Sometimes I have noted a raw metallic taste in whiskey, especially in restaurants, which may be because bottles are continually opened and not closed tightly when closed, or maybe kitchen odours get in. It isn't I think "real" oxidation. This is a very interesting area (the effect of bottle aging on all drinks including spirits and whiskey) and one where a knowledge of organic and other chemistries would assist to understand what is really going on. Any straightbourbonites with that background are invited, in particular, to comment.

Gary

ratcheer
07-25-2005, 15:12
I don't know, but since a small bottle lasts me so long (a tablespoon at a time), I refrigerate mine.

Tim

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-25-2005, 16:53
Thanks Gary,
Thanks Tim,
I think that I will leave it out. Like Tim I probably won't use it up in less than six months, but my fridge is pretty small. I don't think I can get away with keeping that big bottle in the fridge that long. As long as it doesn't go off in couple of weeks.
Ed

Special Reserve
07-25-2005, 18:32
"A tablespoon at a time" Why so much. When I made martinis I would open the bottle of vermouth and set aside, pour a glass of gin from the freezer and add two queen sized olives (eat a third olive) then close the bottle of vermouth. I thought martinis are best that way.

When I recently moved I discovered a bottle of vermouth that was at least 20 years old. It did not get moved.

ratcheer
07-25-2005, 18:45
Churchill said he glanced at a bottle of vermouth from across the room, but I don't think it is a martini without at least some vermouth. My 6:1 ratio is pretty damned dry. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clever.gif

Tim

CrispyCritter
07-28-2006, 17:21
I've just finished my very first martini. I used Bombay Sapphire gin and Noilly Prat dry vermouth (approx. 5:1), with an onion-stuffed olive, and a few dashes of Regan's orange bitters. I stirred it - but next time I'll try using a plastic spoon, based on comments earlier in the thread.

My first sip was sort of a "WTF?" moment, as I'm far more accustomed to the sweetness of whiskey as opposed to the dry, herbal taste of gin. It first seemed to me that I was drinking a salad. However, the deeper I got into the drink, the more I liked it!

This will be an interesting area of experimentation... 4:1 or 6:1? Sweet vermouth and a cherry? A dash of Herbsaint and some Peychaud's?

ratcheer
07-28-2006, 18:16
This will be an interesting area of experimentation... 4:1 or 6:1? Sweet vermouth and a cherry? A dash of Herbsaint and some Peychaud's?
Well, those ideas are straying very far from a classic martini. :skep:

Tim

CrispyCritter
07-28-2006, 19:31
Then again, vodka strays far from a classic martini as well. :slappin:

It seems to me that the martini is the most "experimental" drink in existence. Some might even consider a Manhattan to be a "whiskey martini." :) They certainly have plenty in common - a base spirit, a vermouth, a garnish, and bitters.

CrispyCritter
07-28-2006, 20:20
Much like whiskey I started drinking gin with the good stuff and never messed with the lower end. I once ordered a g&t and it was awful but I couldn't figure out what was wrong. The bartender couldn't figure it out either as it was Beefeater's.

I figured it out pretty quick.
*LMFAO!* :slappin:

That reminds me of some G&T's I had long ago; many, many years ago, my sister and I went to a local bar (now long-gone), and I ordered a G&T, which was duly served with whatever was the "standard" gin. It was okay... but then my sister ordered one for me. I instantly noticed the difference. When she asked me what I though of it, I told her, "Hey, that's Tanqueray." Indeed, it was - it had a much deeper flavor than the standard rail gin.

~~~ insert wavy lines here ~~~

There used to be three bars in my town within walking distance of one another, with two of them across the street from one another. Only one of them survives today - and it's just a stone's throw from home [1]. Bar #2 across the street from it got into trouble due to some under-the-table cocaine dealing, and that building now houses an insurance agency and a bank branch. Bar #3 was about half a mile away, and it tried to favor the yuppie crowd - but it ultimately got nowhere. The owner sold out to a developer, and the now-abandoned bar sits, awaiting a wrecking ball.

Back around Christmas 1999, my sister's fiance came from England for a visit. Unfortunately, he left his passport at her house in Michigan. The bar right by home had recently been busted for serving an underaged snitch, and so they were in full "Your papers, please" mode - even though the server was a personal friend of my sister. Even though none of us were under 36, none of us got served, because he didn't have his passport with him. :banghead: Welcome to Amerika, comrade - check your brain in at the Customs station!

Bar #2 was already closed due to the cocaine issue, so we headed for bar #3. Well, my future brother-in-law [2] was wearing a tank top - and bar #3 had recently instituted a "no tank tops" rule as part of its yuppification effort. :banghead: Once the owner realized that he wasn't even from the same country, let alone the same county, he was willing to relent, and we got our beer.

At least they're happliy married now - living in Michigan (which, sadly, isn't the best place for booze - but isn't the worst either).

[1] I rarely set foot in the place, because I find cigarette smoke unbearable. :deadhorse:
[2] That being said, I'm damn proud to call him my brother!

DrinkyBanjo
07-29-2006, 05:49
On another note I was out to dinner with my father (Scotch and Martini drinker but now I buy him Bourbon for his gifts) and I wanted to order a Bombay Sapphire Gin and Tonic and he wouldn't do it. He said good Gin should not be wasted on G&Ts and reservered for Martini's.

ratcheer
07-29-2006, 06:24
On another note I was out to dinner with my father (Scotch and Martini drinker but now I buy him Bourbon for his gifts) and I wanted to order a Bombay Sapphire Gin and Tonic and he wouldn't do it. He said good Gin should not be wasted on G&Ts and reservered for Martini's.

I'd say your father is a wise man.

That said, since I spend a lot on good bourbon, I do buy good gin for my wife's gins and tonic. Its only fair.

Tim

DrinkyBanjo
07-29-2006, 10:56
What's fair is fair. Makes for a happy marriage!

CrispyCritter
07-30-2006, 19:03
That said, since I spend a lot on good bourbon, I do buy good gin for my wife's gins and tonic. Its only fair.

*clink!*

Better booze makes better cocktails, sir!

In spite of my being a bourbon/Scotch/Manhattan/Rob Roy fanatic, the gin/Martini world has its own very different charm.

I think of the Martini as the anti-Manhattan - and that's not a bad thing!

Nebraska
07-31-2006, 15:59
Typically,the best martini I have all year is concocted in this manner:

1) Check in to the Palmer House in Chicago.

2) Go to the lobby bar order.

3) Carry it out in to the lobby with wife in arm.

4) Enjoy. If you haven't stayed at the Palmer House while in Chicago, you should, the lobby and the drinks are very therapeutic.

cowdery
08-01-2006, 07:18
Typically,the best martini I have all year is concocted in this manner:

1) Check in to the Palmer House in Chicago.

2) Go to the lobby bar order.

3) Carry it out in to the lobby with wife in arm.

4) Enjoy. If you haven't stayed at the Palmer House while in Chicago, you should, the lobby and the drinks are very therapeutic.

I have a couple of questions about this recipe.

Do I have to actually stay at the Palmer House (I live in Chicago) or can I just go to the lobby bar?

Does is only work with your wife and, if so, can I borrow her?

cowdery
08-01-2006, 07:22
In the current heat wave, I have been enjoying margaritas, martinis and G&Ts. I like Bombay Sapphire Gin, about 4 parts of that to one part of M&R dry vermouth (there are vermouths I like better, but M&R is adequate), and several pimento-stuffed olives, in a well-chilled glass. Either shaken or stirred is acceptable, but the chilled glass is essential.

ratcheer
08-02-2006, 18:05
I went back to an old stand-by, last night, making a Beefeater's martini. It had a bit more bite than Bombay Sapphire. While that is probably the whole point of the more expensive Sapphire, I really enjoyed the Beefeater's.

Honestly, I enjoy both. This could become a habit. :drinking:

Tim

TimmyBoston
08-03-2006, 00:42
I like my gin martini's with Tanqueray Ten and my vodka one's with Hangar One. When it comes to mixing. I pour the chilled spirit in a shaker with ice, look at a bottle of vermouth and then strain into a frosted glass. Extra olives.

The other day at the liquor store, I saw a spray that vermouth flavored that you sprayed onto the cubes, I wonder if it would be any good?

Edward_call_me_Ed
08-03-2006, 06:55
*clink!*

Better booze makes better cocktails, sir!



I heartily agree. If you are going to drink a cocktail, in this case a Gin Tonic, use the very best ingredients available. The only reason not to use Bombay Sapphire instead of a lesser gin in a Gin Tonic is if Bombay Sapphire makes an inferior Gin Tonic.

By the way, the only Martinis I have drunk I have made. I can't say I care for them. That may be the fault of the mixologist, I don't know. At first I thought it was because I didn't have olives in the house the first time. But when I tried it with olives it was worse not better. I am going to have to try a professionally built Martini someday. Until then, I much prefer Gin Tonics and won't 'waste' anymore of my Bombay Sapphire on Martinis. Same goes for my homemade Manhattans. Now my Margaritas are another matter, but that is another thread.
Ed

Edward_call_me_Ed
08-03-2006, 07:02
I went back to an old stand-by, last night, making a Beefeater's martini. It had a bit more bite than Bombay Sapphire. While that is probably the whole point of the more expensive Sapphire, I really enjoyed the Beefeater's.

Honestly, I enjoy both. This could become a habit. :drinking:

Tim
I bow at the Lotus Feet of our New Guru. ;-)

I like Beefeater's better, too. Mine is the 47% ABV.
Ed

ratcheer
08-03-2006, 15:28
I bow at the Lotus Feet of our New Guru. ;-)

I like Beefeater's better, too. Mine is the 47% ABV.
Ed

Mine is 94-proof. :grin:

Tim

chperry
08-08-2006, 17:29
Here is my recipe, developed over years and liters of testing:
4 parts Plymouth Gin (Bombay Saphire will work as a sub)
1 part good dry vermouth (try some straight and pick one you like)
1 dash of Regans orange bitters (very important)
put the martini glass in the freezer for at least 30 minutes
put ingredients in shaker (I prefer glass instead of metal, I use a large glass and a small plastic cup as a lid)
shake, shake, shake.
strain into martini glass and add 2 or 3 olives

it is to die for.

I use a shot glass for "measuring". Two shots of gin, 1/2 shot of dry vermouth. Fits perfect in a large martini glass that I bought at Disneyworld this summer.

BTW, I LOVE the Palmer House Hilton. I have stayed there 3 or 4 times.

Charles

chperry
08-08-2006, 17:34
I do NOT use Plymouth Gin for a gin and tonic. I don't care for Bombay Sapphire for this drink either. A gin and tonic needs a gin with some balls. I prefer Tanquerey for a gin and tonic. Tanquerey makes a passable martini, and a great gin and tonic (T&T don't you know). Bombay works good also as does Beefeater.

Actually, I just finished a Bombay Sapphire martini at the bar with supper (not as good as mine but passable) and am now enjoying a Tanquerey and tonic in my room (nice to have a liquor store nearby). I hate to travel but I endeavor to make my time as bearable as possible :-)

Charles

cowdery
08-08-2006, 17:49
I don't understand people who call a glass of gin a martini. Yes, too much vermouth is the quickest way to ruin a martini, but you have to have some. At a bare minimum, you have to coat the glass with dry vermouth (pouring out the excess) before adding the chilled gin to call it a martini. If what you really want is a gin, call it that.

chperry
08-08-2006, 19:46
I agree. A martini without vermouth is NOT a martini.

Also, don't even talk about a vodka martini. That is NOT a martini.

robbyvirus
08-08-2006, 22:25
I have discovered a new gin that I really like in my martinis...Zuidam gin, from Holland. Very tasty. I've also recently started drinking my martinis "dirty", that is with a little bit of the olive juice from the bottle thrown in. Very nice. If you like your martinis with bitters, though, this probably wouldn't go together so well...I'd go for one or the other.

cowdery
08-09-2006, 10:07
I agree. A martini without vermouth is NOT a martini.

Also, don't even talk about a vodka martini. That is NOT a martini.

We are of like minds.

I want to be clear that I'm not trying to tell anyone what to drink. Drink whatever you like, just don't call it a martini.

barturtle
08-09-2006, 10:24
While I agree with your statements about a martini being gin and vermouth (in my case with a twist), I believe that the fact that more and more cocktails are being called martinis, is not simply due to stupidity, but to the demise of the traditional cocktail glass, and since all these drinks need a serving container the next most logical choice is the martini glass, hence they are not so much claiming to be a tradtional martini, but are simply being served in a martini glass. In other words, it's kinda like being forewarned that you are going to receive this drink in a glass that is easy to spill and will get warm quickly as there is no room for ice.

BourbonJoe
08-09-2006, 14:11
Drink whatever you like, just don't call it a martini.

I agree most fervently.
Joe :usflag:

Gillman
08-09-2006, 14:45
There was a time when a kind of cottage industry arose of Martini jokes. 40's-70's was its classic era.

Common punch line: "that's no way to make a Dry Martini". :)

Gary

cowdery
08-09-2006, 20:07
While I agree with your statements about a martini being gin and vermouth (in my case with a twist), I believe that the fact that more and more cocktails are being called martinis, is not simply due to stupidity, but to the demise of the traditional cocktail glass, and since all these drinks need a serving container the next most logical choice is the martini glass, hence they are not so much claiming to be a tradtional martini, but are simply being served in a martini glass. In other words, it's kinda like being forewarned that you are going to receive this drink in a glass that is easy to spill and will get warm quickly as there is no room for ice.

I acknowledge that this is true, most definitely is true, in fact, but I still object to the practice. A drink is a drink, not a glass. What would I get if I walked into a bar and ordered a tumbler?

barturtle
08-09-2006, 23:18
What would I get if I walked into a bar and ordered a tumbler

These days? Most likely a confused look, as they tryed to figure out why the heck you were ordering a gymnast!:slappin:

Ask for a highball and they'll probably tell you to go find the corner pusher, as well.:bigeyes:

elkdoggydog
08-10-2006, 08:38
Now you've done it, guys. After reading this thread, I've started making martinis, and really enjoying them. Now I have to keep gin and dry vermouth in my cabinet, too. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

robbyvirus
08-10-2006, 19:48
Yes, this thread has made me get out the shaker tonite as well. Just made me a big 'ol martini with Zuidam gin! oh yeah!

cowdery
08-10-2006, 20:57
Yes, this thread has made me get out the shaker tonite as well. Just made me a big 'ol martini with Zuidam gin! oh yeah!

So, talk to me about this Zuidam gin.

TimmyBoston
08-22-2006, 02:14
There was a time when a kind of cottage industry arose of Martini jokes. 40's-70's was its classic era.

Common punch line: "that's no way to make a Dry Martini". :)

Gary


Anybody got any of these jokes? ???

ratcheer
08-22-2006, 16:42
Here's one:

A new park ranger was just about to complete his training. His last assignment was to man a one man station deep in the back woods, for a month. He asked his mentor if he had any advice on dealing with being alone for such a long time.

"Sure", came the reply. "You just need a bottle of gin, some dry vermouth, and a martini shaker."

"You mean", asked the young ranger, "I just deal with it by getting drunk?"

"No", came the answer. "As soon as you start making martinis, a hundred people come out of the woodwork to tell you how you're doing it wrong."

CrispyCritter
08-28-2006, 15:26
Recently, I tried an old-old-old-school version of the Martini, aka the Martinez. I'm finding I prefer this to the previous recipe I tried.

I'm finding it best with:
1-1/2 oz. Bombay Sapphire
1 oz. Noilly Prat white vermouth (yes, that's right, 1.5:1!)
1/4 oz. Luxardo Maraschino liqueur (Cointreau could be used, in its place, for a different taste)
A dash or two of orange bittersStir and strain into a cocktail glass, garnish with a cherry.

The Luxardo adds a sweet touch that nicely counterbalances the gin and vermouth, and the bitters add a nice touch of complexity as well. Good stuff!

Next up will be to try red vermouth, which was used first.

cowdery
08-28-2006, 20:29
Interesting, but I don't think I'll be trying it. For my taste, the vermouth is overpowering at any ratio above 4:1. Of course, I've never tried the other ingredients, but I suspect the gin gets pretty lost in this recipe.

I can see where all of the "very dry martini" notions come from, because it's easy to use too much vermouth and ruin the drink.

CrispyCritter
08-31-2006, 18:40
At 5:1, I find the gin to be overpowering. The trick is to find just the right balance for your taste.

Tonight, after a Red Hook with Old Overholt, then a classic Manhattan with OGD BIB, I tried another Martinez - this time trying 3:1 (2 oz. Bombay Sapphire, 2/3 oz. Noilly Prat white vermouth). I think this is just the right ratio for me - the gin isn't overpowering, and isn't too muted. With about 1/3 oz. of maraschino and a couple of shakes of Regan's orange bitters, it all comes together into a gestalt that transcends all of the ingredients.

I'm finding that I greatly prefer the Luxardo and the cherry garnish over an olive. Remember, though, a little Luxardo goes a long way! That 750 ml. bottle will last a very long time, so it's well worth the price.

I think I'm going to have to mail-order some more Regan's, though - I've only seen it once in Chicagoland, and my bottle's less than half-full now. Surprising as it may be, it's a lot easier to get Peychaud's around here. Note, however, that I'm very glad that Peychaud's is easy for me to get!

darkluna
09-01-2006, 12:09
My martini-drinking usually comes in waves. I haven't had one in a long time, but when I get into them, I drink them quite regularly.

I prefer a milder Gin -- ones with less of a peppery taste to them. My favorite martini gin was Tanqueray Malacca, but by no longer produce it. I found Hendricks (a Scottish! gin) to be a suitable replacement.

I pour a capful of vermouth into the well-chilled glass, coat and dump. Then I stir the gin in lots of ice. I like the gin really cold, so I stir it a lot. I never shake, I don't want huge ice-chunks in my drink.

I don't use bitters, and rarely use a garnish. Dirty martinis are just....nasty. My wife prefers a pearl-onion garnish (which makes it a Gibson, technically).

I'd like to find some of those old-style cocktail glasses that you see a lot in old movies (William Powell's Thin Man comes to mind). They are really small compared to today's modern martini glasses.

CrispyCritter
10-04-2006, 21:30
Earlier tonight, I tried another Martinez variation. Instead of regular red or white vermouth, I used Punt e Mes, but otherwise, it was 3:1 using Plymouth gin, and some Luxardo maraschino. Just for kicks, I used peach bitters instead of orange. Effectively, it was a lot like a Red Hook, but with gin instead of rye.

It was very good, but the gin was a bit muted compared to the same recipe with a standard red or white vermouth. I think I could go with 4:1 for a Punt e Mes-based Martinez, to bring out a bit more of the gin's flavor.

As for red vs. white vermouth, either makes a great drink - though they're quite different. Punt e Mes is not an ordinary red vermouth, though - and that's a good thing.

Edward_call_me_Ed
10-05-2006, 08:16
Right now I am drinking a martini, Tanqueray, Noilly Pratt Red Vermouth and a shake of Hermes Orange Bitters. No ice or water. Really nice! Looks like, but doesn't taste like, straight bourbon about 4 years old.
Ed

ratcheer
10-28-2006, 15:42
I just had a great martini, my best ever.

What happened? I poured too much vermouth (about an ounce), so I had to use a lot of gin (about 2 oz). This resulted in a fairly "wet" ratio of about 2:1.

The drink was excellent. It was so big I used three olives, instead of the usual two.

Tim

bluesbassdad
10-28-2006, 15:59
Tim,

In my book a martini is "big" when there's room for an avacado. :lol:

(I wonder whether I'll still find that funny when this WT RR wears off.)

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

robbyvirus
10-29-2006, 00:01
So, talk to me about this Zuidam gin.

Hey Chuck, sorry I didn't respond sooner...I just now noticed this question when reading the new posts to this thread. I got the Zuidam at BevMo a few months ago, and I really like it in martinis. It's made in Holland, and I suspect it's fairly new. They sell two gins, Zuidam Dry Gin, and a Genever Gin which I haven't tried yet. I like the Dry Gin a lot...smooth, tasty, heavy on the botanicals. Not sure how widespread their distribution is, as I've only seen it at BevMo.

Gillman
10-29-2006, 04:11
There is an old dispute in liquor circles whether the Martinez is the ancestor of the Martini cocktail. The Martinez was well described earlier in the thread, i.e., gin (Old Tom, a sweetened type, was originally used), red vermouth, Maraschino liqueur - which is not sweet and quite different from the cherry juice of the same name - bitters. I think the drinks have the same origin since the main elements are the same (gin, vermouth) albeit different versions were used for each. Basically the drink got drier and simplifed.

I think the key is the term Dry Martini, still understood although possessing something of a period ring and not normally used when ordering or referring to the drink today. This must have been the original name of the Martini which in effect was a dry Martinez. Therefore, it used dry vermouth not sweet and dry gin not Tom gin. I surmise the meaning of Dry Martini changed too, to a drink using less rather than more dry vermouth. How is the Spanish (evidently) word Martinez pronounced? Is the "z" pronounced like the Canadian "eh"? If so I think this supports the interpretation suggested. If not, this does not mean the common origin theory is incorrect although I might give it less credence in that case.

There are many alternate explanations for the origin of the term Martini. One that is ostensibly persuasive is that a bartender of this name made the cocktail at the Knickerbocker bar in New York before WW I in the 1900's. Apparently a tape recording survives which attests to this, made by the gentleman in question or someone who worked with him. Martini was his first name, Martini de ... I can't recall now what his second name was - the full story is recounted in Frederic Martin's urbane Encyclopedia of Drinks and Drinking (late 60's-era). However I have read lists of drinks available from wholesalers that referred to Martini cocktails which are circa 1900 and before that. Also, the term Martini appears (sometimes together with the term Martinez) in some late 1800's bar manuals. Therefore the drink as we know it today must have predated the 1910's in New York City.

Of all the theories I have read, I think the most logical is that Martini is a corruption of the term Martinez.

Gary

ratcheer
10-29-2006, 16:35
I always assumed (I know, assumptions are dangerous) that the term martini resulted simply from a cocktail made with Martini and Rossi vermouth. You have obviously given it a lot more thought than I.

I have heard two common ways of pronouncing Martinez, differing mainly by which syllable is accented. mar-TEEN-ez or mar-tin-EZ. The former seems more prevalent, to me. Both variations end with an actual Z sound, as I have heard them.

Tim

cowdery
10-30-2006, 22:06
According to William Grimes in Straight Up or On the Rocks, the martini is part of a religious cult. It even has a martyr, the author Sherwood Anderson, "who succumbed to peritonitis after swallowing the toothpick from a martini olive."

About the name, he says:

"The British assume it originated with the Martini & Henry rifle ...known for its strong kick."

"The Italians assume (it) comes from Martini & Rossi Vermouth."

He cites the Martinez theory, which is supported by Jerry Thomas' book, but says that theory "rests on sand." It first appears in print, not in Jerry's 1862 book, but in O. H. Byron's book in 1884. Then Thomas picks it up in 1887.

The Knickerbocker Hotel bartender was Martini di Arma di Taggia. In 1912, he introduced a drink with equal parts gin and dry vermouth.

Grimes seems to be saying that the name may be derived from either the Martinez or the Italian bartender but the drink itself as we know it today evolved over time and didn't really have a creator.

ratcheer
11-02-2006, 18:20
The martini is deserving of being a religious cult. :bigeyes:

Tim

jeff
11-03-2006, 10:34
Has anyone tried Beefeater "Wet" ? I didn't realize when I purchased it, but it is gin blended with pear liquor. We first tried it in an ordinary martini with a couple of olives...it was terrible. Then we tried it with a twist of lime and it was really pretty good. We've also made gimlets with it and they are quite nice. The pear influence is subtle and pleasant, but the flavor clashes badly with a briny olive.

Grain Brain
01-31-2007, 17:41
The Vesper, as laid out by Ian Fleming in Casino Royale...

1 part vodka
3 parts gin
1/2 part Lillet (a name brand French apertif wine)
lemon peel twist garnish

Everyone always thinks of Bond's martini as being simply 'a vodka martini', but the actual literary version uses very little vodka.

I've made several of these over the years, and it is a terrific, lighter martini (lemon peel instead of green olive makes it so) that I think would be a good introduction for those not used to gin, as the vodka does cut the gin flavor a little.

Not sure if this is my favorite martini, but it is one I frequently revisit.

CrispyCritter
02-02-2007, 21:26
Has anyone tried Beefeater "Wet" ? I didn't realize when I purchased it, but it is gin blended with pear liquor. We first tried it in an ordinary martini with a couple of olives...it was terrible. Then we tried it with a twist of lime and it was really pretty good. We've also made gimlets with it and they are quite nice. The pear influence is subtle and pleasant, but the flavor clashes badly with a briny olive.

I wonder if it might go better with a cherry instead of an olive (and maybe red vermouth). Then again, I'm not a big fan of olives - except for black olives on pizzas or submarine sandwiches.

It sounds like it might also go well in a Gin and Tonic (where I normally would go with standard Tanqueray).

samstone
02-06-2007, 09:52
I go old school when making a martini
2 ounces Plymouth Gin
1/2 ounce Martini and Rossi Dry Vermouth
Dash of bitters (Orange perferably, but Angostura works fine)
shake with ice and strain into a martini glass
Garnish with a twist of lemon
tasty!

jeff
02-25-2007, 18:09
OK folks, I'm about to share with you the secret to the perfect gin martini.

Are you ready?

Can you handle it?

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

It's Worcestershire sauce:bigeyes:


You heard right, Worchestershire sauce! :yum:

Put a dash of worcestershire into a shaker or mixing glass, and pour out as much as you can, so that only a trace remains in the glass. Add:

3oz gin (I use Bombay Saphire)
Splash of dry vermouth (I use Nolly Prat)

Shake or stir with several ice cubes and strain into a martini glass, add 3 olives and serve.

The worcestershire sauce adds a little extra savory-ness that no one will be able to pinpoint, but everyone will love!

Try it and report back here!

:toast:

smokinjoe
03-04-2007, 12:56
OK folks, I'm about to share with you the secret to the perfect gin martini.

Are you ready?

Can you handle it?

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

It's Worcestershire sauce:bigeyes:


You heard right, Worchestershire sauce! :yum:

Put a dash of worcestershire into a shaker or mixing glass, and pour out as much as you can, so that only a trace remains in the glass. Add:

3oz gin (I use Bombay Saphire)
Splash of dry vermouth (I use Nolly Prat)

Shake or stir with several ice cubes and strain into a martini glass, add 3 olives and serve.

The worcestershire sauce adds a little extra savory-ness that no one will be able to pinpoint, but everyone will love!

Try it and report back here!

:toast:

I give you 2 emphatic thumbs up on this one, Jeff. I have been eager to try this, since I read your post last week. Had a chance to try it last night, and found it to be asolutely delicious! Savory-ness is exactly what it brings to the cocktail. The worcestershire makes for a richer and fuller martini. Lip smacking good. I would like to try blue cheese stuffed olives next time as well, for a Manwich of a meal :D. I'm going to have another tonight!

:toast:

JOE

Gillman
03-05-2007, 04:05
A light salty effect has long been considered a boon to a martini. Of course, olives are the classic source. People have used capers too. The suggestion of Worcestershire is interesting and this would accentuate that taste and give it a slight twist from the soy element. Many years ago, a martini in which a dash of malt whisky was added was popular in some circles. A malty, peaty whisky can be salty and I wonder if a few drops of, say Lagavulin 16 might add the slight additional hint of relish that Worcestershire does. Good point too about adding very little, it is the faint hint that would make the addition interesting and effective. Olives do this too since just placed in the drink they would not add much salt, if you eat them that is different.

Gary

ratcheer
03-05-2007, 14:49
I always eat the olives, after the drink is finished. They are my favorite part! :yum:

Tim

Edward_call_me_Ed
03-06-2007, 14:09
When I started making the occasional martini after first reading this thread I didn't have any olives in the house. I liked the martinis just fine though. When I added an olive or two I felt that both the martini and the olive were spoiled. I tried a dirty martini and that was worse. I will try olives again someday. I don't keep Worcestershire in the house and so am unlikely to have the chance to try that at home.

Ed

JeffRenner
03-07-2007, 16:56
I tried a dirty martini and that was worse.

I think that a dirty martini is an affront to the gin maker's skill. All the trouble to choose the blend of herbs and spices, and then pour in olive brine?

I agree with you, despite the fact that reputedly FDR liked them, and made them for Winston Churchill, who supposedly appreciated them.

Jeff

TNbourbon
03-07-2007, 17:44
I don't like olives. I've never had a martini.

BourbonJoe
03-07-2007, 18:00
I don't like olives. I've never had a martini.

Don't worry, you still may get to heaven. :lol:
Joe :usflag:

Joeluka
03-08-2007, 06:28
Blue Cheese stuffed olives in a dirty martini just hits the spot for me.
I also see nothing wrong with making cocktails different than the "accepted" recipes. For me its about making a great drink, not a history lesson.:rolleyes:

OscarV
03-08-2007, 11:57
I've had a Sake Martini at a Japanese resturant once. And I liked it.
Then several years later I had a traditional martini and I did not like it.

CrispyCritter
03-09-2007, 18:50
I don't like olives. I've never had a martini.

A lemon twist (instead of an olive) is another traditional garnish. Me, I tend to go with a cherry, or no garnish. I hate wasting a whole lemon for just a twist or two of peel...

ratcheer
12-27-2007, 15:13
I just had a classic martini made with a new bar utensil I got for Christmas. It is a bar strainer with a long, stainless steel handle. Very nice, not your run-of-the-mill bar tool.

Anyway, I used 2 oz Bombay Sapphire, a splash of M&R dry vermouth (probably about 2 teaspoons), and about seven ice cubes. I stirred it for about 40 seconds. I had had my glass in the freezer for about 10 minutes, then added three pimiento stuffed olives. The strainer definitely made it a snap to pour my drink.

It was superb, maybe the best martini I've ever had.

Tim

jeff
12-29-2007, 04:35
We made martinis with blue cheese-stuffed olives last night and they were fantastic. 3oz Bombay Sapphire, tiny splash of vermouth, a drop of Worcestershire, and a jumbo olive; shaken to form tiny ice crystals on the surface. The olives were packed in oil instead of brine, so a little extra WS made up for the lack of saltiness. :yum:

GreggB
12-29-2007, 09:34
Great advice and recipes from everyone.

I prefer vodka over gin.

For some time I have run blind taste testings with martini drinking friends, comparing 2 or 3 vodkas at a time, and using vodkas from one family (wheat vodkas, rye vodkas, etc.). Our votes go to:

wheat vodka: Stoli Elit very expensive, but the best tasting wheat vodka

rye vodka: Pravda good value

potato vodka: Monopolowa great value

grape vodka: Ciroc expensive

corn vodka: Rain good value; the most sweet taste of the set

multi-grain vodka: Ultimat very expensive

When in Costa Rica, I also had the opportunity to try what is billed as the Costa Rican national liquor, something called guaro. I would call it a sugar cane vodka. Brought some back with me, but have not found it for sale anywhere in the US.

I guess you can make vodka from just about anything fermentable, if you distill it at high proof (190 or so).

For olives, I like the garlic-stuffed ones. The crunch of the garlic is a great textural sensation.

polyamnesia
12-29-2007, 21:16
I agree. A martini without vermouth is NOT a martini.

Also, don't even talk about a vodka martini. That is NOT a martini.

that's interesting...not that i frequent bars or read the cocktail recipes (or actually have many cocktails over a 10 year period...:rolleyes: ), but i didn't realize that gin was part of what a martini WAS until years later...i was under the (obviously DELUDED!) assumption that vodka was what defined a martini.

with or without vermouth. or olives. or onion...

i guess the vodka martini would then be a NEOclassical martini???

anyways, my first 'martini' offered to me was with vodka, a touch of vermouth and two olives.

i then made my own with some straight-from-the-freezer-Finlandia and either two olives or three cocktail onions. eventually the vermouth simply stood in the background as decor...:lol:

cowdery
12-31-2007, 15:29
A martini is a drink made with gin and vermouth, hence the term vodka martini to describe the same drink made with vodka instead.

Then came the "dry" martini, which evolved into a comedy routine in which a glass of straight gin becomes a martini by being in the same county as a bottle of vermouth.

In the modern era, a martini is anything served in that iconic triangular glass, which has itself mutated into a creature several times its original size.

Yet what most would consider the "classic" martini formulation of three or four parts London dry gin to one part dry vermouth, stirred with ice in a cocktail pitcher, strained into a chilled, stemmed cocktail glass, and garnished with an olive or three, is itself a product of evolution.

The martini came into its own in the 1950s as the official libation of the New York City business establishment. It is a great example of both profligacy and hubris that such a seemingly simple drink could have so many variations, each of which is claimed as "the best" by its proponents.

My personal take on the martini issue is that the martini culture of the 50s and 60s was the opening round in the drugification (my word) of drinking, the culmination of which is the vodka hysteria of the present day. The meaning of drugification is that the drinking of straight, chilled vodka makes alcohol consumption as much like shooting heroin or snorting cocaine as possible, all debates about which brand of tasteless, odorless grain neutral spirit is best notwithstanding.

GreggB
12-31-2007, 16:04
My personal take on the martini issue is that the martini culture of the 50s and 60s was the opening round in the drugification (my word) of drinking, the culmination of which is the vodka hysteria of the present day. The meaning of drugification is that the drinking of straight, chilled vodka makes alcohol consumption as much like shooting heroin or snorting cocaine as possible, all debates about which brand of tasteless, odorless grain neutral spirit is best notwithstanding.

Not following you on this one. Biochemically nothing significant in common between abusers of alcohol and users of heroin or cocaine.

Also, nothing significant in common between abusers of alcohol and those who can discriminate significant and enjoyable differences in odor and flavor between various vodkas.

ratcheer
12-31-2007, 16:49
A martini is a drink made with gin and vermouth, hence the term vodka martini to describe the same drink made with vodka instead.

...



Chuck,

Thank you.

Tim

cowdery
01-01-2008, 11:35
Vodka is defined by federal rule as being without distinctive taste, odor or color. I acknowledge that it is possible to distinguish among the different brands, but only to a very limited extent. Vodka is, by definition, a distilled spirit stripped to the furthest extent possible of all sensory stimuli. It is very hard to argue convincingly that vodka is consumed for any purpose other than the alcoholic effect so, in that respect, its consumption is similar to drug use. The martini, especially one made with vermouth and a flavorful gin, does have flavor, but that is mitigated somewhat by serving it as cold as possible. Likewise the practice of chilling and shooting vodka. The object is to get the drug into the system as quickly as possible, without tasting or smelling it. I'm sorry if vodka drinkers find this insulting and I've actually moderated my position on the subject a little, but I just can't kick the feeling that vodka fanciers are simply delusional. As for biochemistry, the fact that different types of drugs affect the body in different ways doesn't make alcohol any less a drug than heroin or cocaine.

GreggB
01-01-2008, 15:24
Hi Chuck -- Thanks for the clarifications. I acknowledge that there are plenty of folks who drink vodka exactly as you describe, and for the purposes you describe. They also prefer the tasteless and odorless vodkas since they can hide their drinking that way -- "leaves you breathless" in more ways than one -- an inspired marketing line. There are others, and I agree they probably are on the scarce side of rare, who can discriminate flavor and odor differences in various vodkas, and enjoy drinking vodka from time to time for that reason. To me, for example, a potato-based vodka is very different in aroma and taste from a rye-based vodka. However, I do have what others have politely described as unusually sensitive senses of smell and taste.

One difference between drugs such as caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine, versus drugs such as heroin or cocaine, is concentration. Users of caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine use these drugs in "cut" form (coffee, bourbon, cigars, etc.), far from the pure form users of heroin or cocaine employ. I sometimes wonder if law has something to do with it -- if legalizing heroin and cocaine would lead to more dilute forms being used (as in the dilute cocaine-containing beverages of old). We love to accessorize.

The biochemisty differences I mentioned have to do with the fact that alcohol is generally not truly addictive, unlike nicotine, heroin, or cocaine which are all generally highly addictive. Alcohol is only truly addictive for those unfortunates for whom alcohol induces what I have heard some of them refer to as "the buzz" -- pulses of pleasurable but transient chemical changes in the brain that strongly reinforce additional drinking. This is a genetically inherited trait, overwhelmingly a sex-linked trait passed from father to son, and leads to a very different relationship with alcohol than the rest of us experience.

I'm fine with your definition of a martini as gin plus vermouth. Indeed, if I am drinking a "martini" containing vodka, and someone asks me what I'm drinking, I do say "a vodka martini", but I never say "a gin martini" if I am drinking a martini containing gin.

Best regards and Happy New Year to all!

Gregg

ILLfarmboy
01-01-2008, 20:43
....One difference between drugs such as caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine, versus drugs such as heroin or cocaine, is concentration. Users of caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine use these drugs in "cut" form (coffee, bourbon, cigars, etc.), far from the pure form users of heroin or cocaine employ. I sometimes wonder if law has something to do with it -- if legalizing heroin and cocaine would lead to more dilute forms being used (as in the dilute cocaine-containing beverages of old). We love to accessorize.


perhaps I am getting terribly off topic but this discussion of vodka intrigues me. Recently while dining out I noticed the menu listed three bourbons; Jim Beam (I'm assuming they meant JB White), WT 101 and Makers Mark but listed at least seven vodkas. I chuckled. What ensued was a discussion along the lines of what has already been said in this thread. It was my assertion that vodka is for the alcohol effect only. My wife took the position that I was running down vodka as a beverage choice because I don't drink it. Admittedly, I have a tendency to do that sort of thing. I have never smoked and I don't understand the attraction or the addiction. Janean used to smoke and is quick to point out that because I never have I don't have a frame of reference as a means of understanding why someone gets pleasure both from the nicotine and the taste. To me it just stinks, and I don't understand why anyone would want to suck that smoke down into their lungs.

Having said that, I will say that at least tobacco produces a smoke that has a smell and taste that some people find pleasurable. Whiskey, beer, wine, coffee and tea, while they contain drugs; alcohol and caffeine, the drug isn't the main attraction. They are potables with complex flavors. OK, I'll admit the alcohol in whiskey and wine is more pleasurable and of course more noticeable in its effect than the caffeine in coffee and tea but still.

Heroin and cocaine or drugs. They are not ingredients in a potable substance created as a byproduct of its manufacture (fermentation) or in the case of tobacco where nicotine occurs naturally as an ancillary substance like the caffeine in tea. Heroin and cocaine are pharmaceuticals. If legal, what diluted form would they be consumed in? Perhaps one might make the argument that putting the small amount of cocaine back in Coca-Cola might constitute a safe dilute recreational usage tied to a flavor experience. But did Coke ever contain a noticeable amount of cocaine? I doubt it. Otherwise folks would have found it very habit forming.

I don't think the difference in drugs such as caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine, versus drugs such as heroin or cocaine, is one of concentration.
the difference lies in the fact that caffeine, nicotine and alcohol, vodka and grain alcohol like Everclear notwithstanding, exist as an incidental ingredient of the product they are a part of.

bigtoys
01-09-2008, 22:03
Back to the topic the OP started.

I use Bombay Sapphire or Hendricks Gin. About 4 oz.
I have a little mister for the vermouth (dry M&R), so I just spray it a few times to coat the (pre-chilled, very important, in the freezer if possible) glass. I may experiment with a few actual ratios of gin:vermouth, like 4:1, 6:1, 8:1.
I see no problem with a metal shaker, again as cold as possible, I like to leave one filled with ice in the freezer if I know I'm having 'tinis.
I have deviated from the pure martini recently to "dirty" ones. I found Dirty Sue's Olive Juice (made popular on Sex In The City) to be cheapest at Liquorama on-line. Santa Barbara Olive company also makes it, as does Collins and some others.
Next, bleu cheese stuffed olives. The Santa Barbara ones are only for emergencies. Avoid olives in oil. Sam's makes their own and they're great, but they have to be fresh; they only last a few days. I recently stuffed my own after pulling the pimentos out of giant olives and it went pretty well. The key is cutting the bleu cheese pieces to fit the hole in the olive. I often poke extra holes in the olives just before making the drink to let more gin seep into the olive for its eventual consumption. I read somewhere that 2 olives are bad luck--go for 3 or 4.
After shaking the gin and olive juice for about 20-30 seconds, strain into the vermouth coated freezing glass. Using a strainer instead of the cocktail shaker top will let a few small pieces of ice in. The perfect martini for me actually has thin sheets of ice on top initially.
Here's one now:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee132/bigtoys335/Dirtymartini1.jpg

jeff
01-10-2008, 01:39
I read somewhere that 2 olives are bad luck--go for 3 or 4.


Actually, the superstition as I understand it is that it's bad luck to have an even number of olives. We generally us either one jumbo olive or 3 smaller olives. Leslie has been known to send a martini back if it shows up with 2 olives:rolleyes::lol:

Edward_call_me_Ed
01-14-2008, 02:55
It has been a while since I've mixed a martini, but, in my opinion, olives ruin martinis and martinis ruin olives. Olives and gin just don't go together, in my humble opinion.

Ed

ratcheer
01-15-2008, 16:55
Ed, you and I are usually pretty much on the same track but, to me, the olives are the best part of a martini. :)

Tim

Edward_call_me_Ed
01-16-2008, 19:48
Ed, you and I are usually pretty much on the same track but, to me, the olives are the best part of a martini. :)

Tim

It really puzzles me that I should feel this way. They should go together, but, somehow, they don't fit for me.

I love green olives, so much so that I rarely buy them. I find it hard not to eat the whole jar once it is open.

Ed