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Gillman
09-21-2005, 08:18
I only had time to drink one during Gazebo just past but was most impressed. It was the Porter. I liked the balance on it, it was malty but not overly so with a nice roasted effect and a slightly acid aftertaste which is correct for this beer style. Originally, porters were blends of old and young dark ales. The older had a slight lactic note from brettanomyces or other prolonged bacterial or wild yeast action; this was before refrigeration days and even heavy hopping could not stop beers becoming acid over time. Young ales were fresh and sweet. So they were combined, in various proportions, to get a good balance (sorry guys, the London brewers came up with the blending idea, not me). Jeff's beer was very traditional in offering that palate. Today, most brewers use a certain hop type to get the acid-like note, which I assume Jeff did. This was very drinkable and fresh-tasting, almost the perfect Porter. Well done, Jeff.

Gary

P.S. An English Porter just out in Toronto is called St. Peter's Old-Style Porter. It is a blend of old and young ales (per details on the back label). Jeff, if that is available in your area, check it out, it offers a good example of the traditional English style but yours was as good and better in some ways, e.g. I assume the St. Peter's beers are pasteurised. You may be familiar with some of their beers, they come in a repro 1700's clear glass bottle and are handsome to look at and nice to handle. Rarely have I encountered a bad bottle from the clear glass.

boone
09-21-2005, 09:09
A group of us sat by the pool (at the General Nelson) on Saturday...On hand, was Jeff's ----->Jeff-O-Wiser<----?????? Shoot, I can't remember what the name of it was but it was wonderful http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif a excellent brew http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was impressed...Good Job Jeff http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bis.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bis.gif

Bettye Jo

doubleblank
09-21-2005, 09:33
I also had a bottle of Jeff's porter and it was delicious. Great job and looking forward to next time I get one of his brews.

Mitch with Twisted Spoke shared a couple of bottles of beer he brought from a local Chicago brewer. It was a stout aged in used BT barrels. A 4 oz serving was just about right due to the extra richness imparted by the barrels. I'm in Chicago next week and will try to find it and post names, etc.

Randy

jeff
09-21-2005, 10:06
Thanks Gary and everyone for the compliments. That particular porter was born here:

http://www.straightbourbon.comhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/43423/an/0/page/0#43423

And the IPA, though a different and more refined batch, here:

http://www.straightbourbon.comhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/31630/an/0/page/1#31630

I also had a Hefeweizen available. I love homebrewing. It allows me a level of control I can't achieve in my bourbon hobby. Gary, I have not tried the Porter from St. Peters, but I have had the Milk Stout, which I think will be the inspiration for my next brew.

Gillman
09-21-2005, 10:16
Thanks, and I now recall that earlier thread where you gave the detailed spec.

The St. Peter's Cream Stout is good, too, somewhat softer and sweeter than the Porter as befits the style.

I also like a true Imperial Stout by which I mean one with some brett influence. Rogue makes a very good one.

Imperial Stout and the best porters and pale ales reach the height of the brewing art. This is due in part to use of (ideally top-fermentation at temperatures that suit such yeasts. The complexity you get is (can be) amazing. If there is one thing I would seek to add, Jeff, in these beers, it is a fruity (black fruit-like) scent. This is a hallmark of English warm ferments, in particular. This can be achieved with certain yeasts (Wye and so forth) but fermentation temperature is important, too. Actually I just looked again at the spec and you do use English top yeasts at the classic 68 F. Maybe the beer was too cold and I missed the estery elements!

Gary

jeff
09-21-2005, 17:14
Thanks, and I now recall that earlier thread where you gave the detailed spec.

The St. Peter's Cream Stout is good, too, somewhat softer and sweeter than the Porter as befits the style.

I also like a true Imperial Stout by which I mean one with some brett influence. Rogue makes a very good one.

Imperial Stout and the best porters and pale ales reach the height of the brewing art. This is due in part to use of (ideally top-fermentation at temperatures that suit such yeasts. The complexity you get is (can be) amazing. If there is one thing I would seek to add, Jeff, in these beers, it is a fruity (black fruit-like) scent. This is a hallmark of English warm ferments, in particular. This can be achieved with certain yeasts (Wye and so forth) but fermentation temperature is important, too. Actually I just looked again at the spec and you do use English top yeasts at the classic 68 F. Maybe the beer was too cold and I missed the estery elements!

Gary



Gary,

I know the flavor to which you refer and I like it. Problem is, in the relatively uncontrolable enviornment of my home brewery, there is a fine line between high fermentation temps for esters , and diacetyl. Therefore, I take every precaution to ensure spot-on or lower fermentation temps. I had one batch of IPA that was so buttery/butterscotch-like that you could have poured it over vanilla ice cream for dessert http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

brewcrew
09-29-2005, 14:24
It was more than likely Goose Island's Bourbon County Stout. They sell it in bottles in 4 packs although I think the next batch is not available until December the brewpub still has some. Rock Bottom in Chicago currently has a Bourbon aged Imperial Stout and Bourbon aged Barley wine if you have extra time while you are in Chicago.

jeff
11-07-2005, 05:39
Now being served is an oatmeal stout I brewed up about 7 weeks ago. Nice and roasty with a silky-smooth mouthfeel that only oatmeal can deliver. My beer cooler is always open (figuratively), so stop by anytime for a cold one http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/yum.gif

Yesterday I battled the wind and light rain to brew up a German style Altbier. It is fermemnting away this morning. I plan on cold-conditioning this one for a month or two before bottling. Homebrewing can really test your patience http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Gillman
11-07-2005, 06:53
Jeff, recently in Ontario there was a special release, Tsarina Katarina Imperial Stout, from Scotch-Irish Brewing Company based near Ottawa, Ontario. This is a very good example of the style, no Brettomyces was used (the brewer used to be a winemaker and does not like the Brett taste) but it has a rich, pure taste with a good coffee-like and licorice palate. 9% ABV. I bought a case and a few are reserved for you in April against that Cummins Black Gold bourbon you've promised me http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif (both are about the same color!). It is bottle-conditioned and I think by April it will reach its peak, but is very good now. It is somewhat like Russian River's Rasputin, if you know that one, but less sweet and with a more English hop orientation (although the Rasputin is very good indeed). Based on my historical readings, this beer approximates a 19th century double stout London porter (which went by various names such as XXXX Porter, Imperial Stout, etc.).

Gary

gr8erdane
11-07-2005, 20:03
You don't deliver?

jeff
11-08-2005, 05:14
Thanks Gary, I look forward to trying them. And I have your bottle sitting right here, I just hope I manage to bring it with me next time http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Gillman
11-08-2005, 06:37
This time I'll remind you just before. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think Jeff that stout with a splash of the Cummins would be really good! There is a tradition in some parts of the world to add some spirit to a strong stout, so we can try it with the Cummins.

Gary

gr8erdane
11-08-2005, 21:14
Good grief, Gary even vats his beers..... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/stickpoke.gif

Gillman
11-09-2005, 03:53
A practice both amongst many brewers and pubgoers here and in England, hence the "half and half" often requested, "light and bitter", and so forth. Bass Ale and Guinness are (or were 10 years ago) a common combination in the Manhattan hostelries. I recall in the mid-80's visiting in Dunkirk, New York the small regional brewery Koch (now long closed), and was told by locals that a mix of one-third porter and two-thirds lager was common in the bars. And adding shots to beer is an old practice in different parts of the world.. Newcastle Brown Ale is a combination of two beers made by the brewery. Beer even unmixed is a blend of different malts (in many cases). I wish again I could say I invented it, but I didn't. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

gr8erdane
11-09-2005, 04:19
I was just kidding Gary, I love Black and Tans, the layered Bass/Guinness combination you spoke of. But then of course layering isn't quite vatting. Actually a local bar does a version of a Black and Tan where they substitute Pete's Hard Cider for the Bass which is a wonderful combo. I just can't remember what they call it.

Gillman
11-09-2005, 07:55
Yes, I know you were pulling my leg. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The layering seems a U.S. invention, the Black and Tan of Britain was bitter and Guinness mixed, and this was before Guinness became a nitro beer (where the layering approach seems more suitable).

Yes, I mix beers all the time, looking for the perfect flavor.. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

Rughi
11-09-2005, 08:00
If memory serves me from my days as a bartender, Guinness and cider is also called a Black Velvet, although I think in other parts of the former British empire that name denotes a different mixture - whiskey and grain neutral spirits. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Roger

Gillman
11-09-2005, 08:48
But classically a black velvet is Guinness stout and Champagne. This was invented in a London club in the 1800's, a royal figure had died, and a servant in the club had the idea to pour Guinness into the clubmens' Champagne, to signify the mourning. It turned out the mixture was approved and became a stand-by particularly in polite circles (not generally known for adherence to beer of any kind). In the 1800's Champagne in Britain was sweeter than today and the Guinness in bottles (at the time) was probably vinous and tart, so the combination was a happy one. Today, Guinness is probably less sour than it was then and most Champagne is less sweet than it was then with the net result in all likelihood that the drink today circles back to what it was then. Black velvets are traditional with oysters, by the way. Beer writer Michael Jackson doesn't much approve of the combination of stout and Champagne, he feels it doesn't show each drink to best advantage, but I like it.

Gary

chasking
11-10-2005, 09:06
...classically a black velvet is Guinness stout and Champagne...



Do you know in approximately what proportions?

Gillman
11-10-2005, 14:28
All the recipes I've read call for 50/50.

I've made it with Veuve Cliquot and bottled Guinness (not the widget kind, the regular old CO2 kind and it is great). But you can make a domestic version, too. (Good Cal sparkling wine and, say, Sierra Nevada Stout or Porter, very good!).

I've still got a full bottle of Port Ellen 24 year old, Chuck. Maybe I'll hit Chi early in New Year and we can (you, me, Cowdery) put a dent in it.

Gary

JeffRenner
11-10-2005, 14:46
But you can [make] a domestic version, too. (Good Cal sparkling and say Sierra Nevada Stout or Porter, very good!).



Of course, Guinness Extra Stout (the "regular old CO2 kind") here in the US, at least, is domestic, or at least North American. It's is brewed in new Brunswick. Presumably that's so they can still sell it in the US as "imported."

Foster's is imported from Toronto, and there are other "imports" that I can't remember. I think the widget Draught Guinness is also brewed in Canada, but I'm not sure.

Nothing wrong with importing beer from Canada, but this is certainly deceptive.

Jeff

chasking
11-11-2005, 23:00
I've still got a full bottle of Port Ellen 24 year old, Chuck. Maybe I'll hit Chi early in New Year and we can (you, me, Cowdery) put a dent in it.



Sounds good to me! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drink.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

We can compare and contrast it to the Signatory 22yo I have. I also have an Old Malt Cask 19yo Port Ellen--just a mini of that one, but probably enough for tasting purposes.

Gillman
11-12-2005, 06:27
Okay, it's a deal, I'll put my mind to some dates in early New Year and be in touch.

Gary