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DrinkyBanjo
10-07-2005, 17:01
If Straight Bourbon has to be bottled at no more than 125 proof how is George T. Stagg labeled as such?

Dave_in_Canada
10-07-2005, 17:05
If Straight Bourbon has to be bottled at no more than 125 proof how is George T. Stagg labeled as such?



The regulations state "stored" not "bottled" at no more than 125 proof. Although I'm sure they'd like to, the government has no control over evaporation etc. once the barrels are put into storage.

TNbourbon
10-07-2005, 17:08
Here are the regulations regarding the various whiskeys, including bourbon:
http://www.distill.com/specs/USA10.html

jeff
10-07-2005, 17:25
There are no restrictions to the bottling proof, only the distilled proof and barrelling proof.

DrinkyBanjo
10-07-2005, 17:34
Thanks all.

cowdery
10-07-2005, 22:19
The only restriction on bottling proof is at the bottom, it can't be less than 80 proof or it has to be labeled "diluted."

Gillman
10-07-2005, 22:43
Proof rises in the barrel (most often) due apparently to the differing size of alcohol and water molecules. The rules say no entry in barrel at over 125 proof but the government knows it will rise from there "naturally" and as many have said, there is no limit on bottling proof. At the risk of annoying those who rely on searches to discover info already on the board, I would like to ask if some good heart can summarise here the different years and strengths of GTS including the Kentucky-only version. I have a chance to buy some soon and while I won't have a choice of different versions, I am curious about which one I will be buying and its taste characteristics. Thanks.

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
10-08-2005, 02:25
it can't be less than 80 proof or it has to be labeled "diluted."



Never heard of this before. Are there some bottlings of this in existence or is it a thing of the past?

barturtle
10-08-2005, 05:50
2002: 15 yr, 137.6 proof (w/ 2002 sticker)
2003: 15 yr, 142.7 proof (affectionately known here as "HazMat")
2004: 16 yr, 129 proof
2005: 16 yr, 8 mo, Lot A 130.9 proof (KY only), Lot B 131.8 proof (outside KY), (the two lots are from the same batch, but bottled at different times

Copied and pasted from another post, Thanks Barrel Proof.

kbuzbee
10-08-2005, 06:08
it can't be less than 80 proof or it has to be labeled "diluted."



Never heard of this before. Are there some bottlings of this in existence or is it a thing of the past?



It seems to be a weird holdover of our Prohibition but there are places licenced to sell alcohol which is of lower proof. In Ohio you find that in grocery stores, for example. In our grocery you will find whisky, rum and vodka all around 40 proof. You have to look closely or you'll wind up with something you aren't expecting. They also carry many things for which the lower proof they are allowed to sell is also the usual proof you would expect (beer, wine etc)

There may be other reasons/examples as well...

Ken

TNbourbon
10-08-2005, 06:36
it can't be less than 80 proof or it has to be labeled "diluted."



Never heard of this before. Are there some bottlings of this in existence or is it a thing of the past?




The Phillips Union Whiskeys (http://www.phillipsdistilling.com)

As you can see from this previous thread, they also can be called 'flavored' whiskey.

'Hybrid' Whiskey (http://www.straightbourbon.comhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/40855/page//fpart/1/vc/1)

boone
10-08-2005, 07:19
I don't know if the laws have changed....but...when I was a label machine operator at HH...No, "Straight Bourbon" whiskey (USA) could be less that 80 proof. If it was less than eighty proof, it had include the word "diluted".

Blend whiskey, (not blended whiskies) could carry the lower proof without the word diluted. Aristocrat blend 70/30 carries the, 70 proof.

Some EXPORTS carry a lower proof (without the word diluted) but the rules change on that one.

No restrictions on Vodka...Ropa, 70 proof, does not state diluted. The Gem Clear (brand) 70 poof has the word diluted.

Bettye Jo

Gillman
10-08-2005, 07:52
What does the 70/30 mean, Bettye Jo? Does that mean 70% bourbon to 30% GNS or other spirits? If so that is the highest blend I know in terms of bourbon content. The blends I know have 51% bourbon (e.g. the non-straight version of Kentucky Gentleman; at least, that is the percentage of straight whiskey stated on the label). A blend made of a high percentage of straight whiskey(s) and a low percentage of GNS, new whiskey, Canadian, etc. can be really good, giving the bourbon just the touch of lightness it often needs for good balance and neat consumption. Any chance of seeing a picture of the Aristocrat bottle? Thanks!

Gary

P.S. When I was in B'town, I bought some VOB at the liquor store on the left side of the road going up towards the road that turns onto the way to Heaven Hill. The store is next to the Keene Ham store. I like this store because it reminds me of photos I have seen from the mid-20th century of liquor stores in Kentucky. In talking to the owner, he said many people don't buy blend whiskey or blended whiskey because it is cheaper than bourbon; he said many people prefer the blended taste to an all-straight whiskey.

boone
10-08-2005, 08:09
It's 70 GNS and 30 bourbon...Well, let me back up..."all of 'em" have "changed" the word "bourbon" to "whiskey"...So, it could be anything, meaning it "might not be bourbon in there anymore.

"BLEND" not "blended Whiskies"...for clarity, straight bourbon whiskies blended together...American Brand, is blended whiskeies...

T.W. Samuels blend...comes in 70/30 and 80/20 (blend)...and it's available in Straight Bourbon also. One really needs to read the labels to understand what they are getting. I know you know this but alot of folks just grab a name and off they go...



Bettye Jo

cowdery
10-08-2005, 11:47
Most control states just specify that spirits can only be sold in state stores, while beer and wine can be sold in grocery stores, etc. Ohio does it a little differently. They say anything above 20% abv must be sold in state stores, anything below 20% abv can be sold in grocery stores, etc. That's why they have the "diluted" spirits there. The advantage is that these low proof products can be sold in more places and during hours when the state stores are not open.

Gillman
10-08-2005, 12:06
If I have this straight (no pun intended http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), American blended whiskey has to have at least 20% straight whiskey in it. Today's norm seems to be some have 20% and the better ones, 30%.

A blend must have at least 51% straight whiskey in it. Kentucky Gentleman's Bourbon: A Blend is in this category. You could have too as you say a combination of bourbons which is the modern version I think of the old "blend of straight whiskies".

I know Chuck has explained this all before but I'm getting confused again. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary

Rughi
10-08-2005, 12:13
"Straight Bourbon"

That'd be a great name for a book... but "Bourbon, Straight" would be a name for a great book. I was looking up the point Gary made, and can't add anything to his post.

But, I got to thinking about bourbon books. The book I'm waiting for would be "the Rise and Fall of the National Distillers Empire: 1946-1987." "Bourbon, Straight" has the best start on this of any published material I've seen.

Roger - Not a threadjack, a play on words - Hodges

boone
10-08-2005, 14:23
The best way I cyper the difference in "our lingo"?

Rot Gut and the good stuff http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Bettye Jo

camduncan
10-08-2005, 14:25
Some EXPORTS carry a lower proof (without the word diluted) but the rules change on that one



Yep, I think there's been discussions before - some of the bourbons to Australia are bottled at 37.5% ABV
From what I can gather, most of these are shipped Downunder in barrels and bottled here. Jim Beam White Label is one such bottle, as is Cougar, Woodstock & (I think) Old Crow to name a few.

I don't know of any bottles for sale that are bottled in Kentucky at less than 40% for our market.

boone
10-08-2005, 14:47
The labels "Heaven Hill Old Style" White and the label "Nelson County" each have "downunder" special backs...both are around 74 proof...But it's calculated different that the American proofing...That's been discussed here http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The Nelson County label is "exclusive" for your country http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bettye Jo

Gillman
10-08-2005, 15:33
This would be about 43% abv or 86 U.S. proof. I always wonder, who decides such things? Who decides that a product for the Aussie market should be any specific proof, for example? Why that number? What are the factors that go into making the decision? Who at Heaven Hill makes the call...?

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
10-09-2005, 03:17
The advantage is that these low proof products can be sold in more places and during hours when the state stores are not open.



Thanks for all the replies. My follow-up question would then be : who buys these products? What audience or strata of society are they aimed at? Is it mainly youngsters?

The reason I ask is because we donīt have anything like this over here. In Sweden whiskey has always been regarded as a, sort of, "manly" product. Yearning for diluted versions would somehow mark you as a sissy. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kbuzbee
10-10-2005, 03:58
The advantage is that these low proof products can be sold in more places and during hours when the state stores are not open.



Thanks for all the replies. My follow-up question would then be : who buys these products? What audience or strata of society are they aimed at? Is it mainly youngsters?

The reason I ask is because we donīt have anything like this over here. In Sweden whiskey has always been regarded as a, sort of, "manly" product. Yearning for diluted versions would somehow mark you as a sissy. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Typically both ends of the age spectrum. The young who aren't well versed in handling higher proofs and older (mostly women) who don't want to be seen going into liquor stores. There are also those (primarily non drinkers) who want something for cooking.

As an aside, when I was growing up in Ohio, we had 2 different drinking ages. 18-21 you could buy low proof beer (3.2%). Over 21 you could buy anything.

Second aside, my very first bottle was Wild Turkey Rye I bought at age 16. I still feel the pain!

Ken

Hedmans Brorsa
10-10-2005, 09:00
As an aside, when I was growing up in Ohio, we had 2 different drinking ages. 18-21 you could buy low proof beer (3.2%). Over 21 you could buy anything.





This is actually quite similar to Swedish regulations. 18-20 = low proof beer. 20 and over = anything.