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BarItemsPlus1
11-26-2005, 18:40
I am wondering if it is possible to buy a cask of bourbon and who from?
Cheers http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif
Send direct email. (bar_items_plus@dodo.com.au) .

bobbyc
11-26-2005, 20:21
Unless you have a license of some sort you cannot buy a full intact barrel and have it delivered that way. If it's the whiskey you are after then almost anyone in the business will let you pick a barrel and they will bottle as their brand and you can buy all that the one barrel makes. It has and is being done by folks on this forum. Buffalo Trace, VanWinkle,BF and HH are ready to do it at the drop of your money. Maybe after a jump thru a couple hoops, Beam, Barton and the rest are probably there too. Wild Turkey would be an interesting place to do it as well.

kbuzbee
11-27-2005, 08:05
Wild Turkey would be an interesting place to do it as well.



Yes it would. I'd be interested if anyone heads down this road.

As to a license. My understanding is you can't buy a barrel. Federal law requires bottling in no more than 1.75L bottles. Maybe if you're a distiller/bottler you can buy a barrel (but I didn't think that was what you meant????)

The discussion has gone to - 'Yes, but you can buy an empty barrel (new or used) and all the Bourbon in a barrel and rebarrel it yourself.' There are now a couple threads on this.

Ken

bobbyc
11-27-2005, 12:09
Maybe if you're a distiller/bottler you can buy a barrel (but I didn't think that was what you meant????)



That is exactly what I meant.

pepcycle
11-28-2005, 16:24
I know a guy who uses bourbon to marinate fish and he has a barrel of Pot Still WR in the barrel at his store. Required licensing and inspection by ATF and he has to account for every drop in a log.
Apparently though, its exempt from taxes because its not consumed. Can that be right?

TNbourbon
11-28-2005, 18:58
...Apparently though, its exempt from taxes because its not consumed. Can that be right?



Only if the fish are dead when they're put in the barrel, Ed. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/falling.gif (Or were you asking about the taxes? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/skep.gif)

gr8erdane
11-28-2005, 20:40
And if the marinade didn't pickle the fish it sure would get em pickled..... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/falling.gif

BarItemsPlus1
11-29-2005, 04:06
Cheers Bobby...I had actually read sometime ago that Beam would bottle a cask, but I had no idea the others where the same. Thanks for that.
Oh and yes I am just after the whisky http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drinking.gif
Cheers Bobby http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

BarItemsPlus1
11-29-2005, 04:17
Wild Turkey would be an interesting place to do it as well.





Yes it would. I'd be interested if anyone heads down this road.


I'M INTERESTED http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Does Wild Turkey do this, can you put me onto the right contact?
Regarding a liquor license, I will soon have one of these soon but not a bottling license or anything as such.
I may/will look into importing the casks next year.
Ken can you advise me on who I can purchase an empty cask from...I have read the posts on refilling the casks but I don't think my wallet can handle that method. I have just ordered in for myself(I retail them) 2 x 2L American Oak wooden barrels of which I plan on filling with both scotch and bourbon - one for each so I looking forward to that experiment/experience.
Thanks very much Ken for the info, been a big help!
Cheers mate... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif
Oh by the way I'm heading over that way in April, might catch up for a sip http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/drinking.gif
Regards,
Troy.

BarItemsPlus1
11-29-2005, 04:22
...Apparently though, its exempt from taxes because its not consumed. Can that be right?




Only if the fish are dead when they're put in the barrel, Ed.


http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/falling.gif
hahaha
Sorry Ed, that was a good one Tim

kbuzbee
11-29-2005, 09:02
Hi Troy, there were several posts about rebarreling including a nice link:

Barrels (http://www.straightbourbon.comhttp://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/51032/an/0/page/2#51032)

You are right, it's not a cheap undertaking.

Ken

pepcycle
11-29-2005, 10:05
I don't know how they go in, but they come out pickled and filleted. I felt that way once. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

miller542
11-29-2005, 10:50
Jack Daniels will let you buy a full barrel of their single barrel.

The way I understand it is this: You have your local distributor or bar buy the barrel, JD bottles the barrel just like they would if it were going out to the public, they ship all the cases and the empty barrel on a pallet to your retailer, then you pay retail price for all of the bottles that the barrel made.

It would be cool to see if any Bourbon makers would be willing to do this. Evan Williams SB or Eagle Rare SB with the empty barrel in the corner would be an amazing conversation piece.

etohchem
11-29-2005, 10:55
Buffalo Trace has been doing this for years. To get yours, call Kris Comstock, 502-696-5936.

Etohchem

barturtle
11-29-2005, 11:00
I worked for a restaurant that bought a barrel of Knob Creek from Beam and later a barrel of Buffalo Trace. Seems like they got the barrel to go with them, but I don't know what happened to the barrels. Yes the distributor was involved, they didn't even have to get all of the cases at once, they shipped as the bar needed them.

Gillman
11-29-2005, 12:47
What happens to the inevitable surplus whiskey when a barrel is sold like this and bottled? Say the last bottle produces 3/4 of a bottle.

Does that go back in other barrels of JD Single? No, because then it wouldn't be a single barrel whiskey.

Does it go in the cistern of regular Jack?

Is it given albeit not full to the buyer of the barrel?

Gary

BourbonJoe
11-29-2005, 13:32
What happens to the inevitable surplus whiskey when a barrel is sold like this and bottled? Say the last bottle produces 3/4 of a bottle.

Does that go back in other barrels of JD Single? No, because then it wouldn't be a single barrel whiskey.

Does it go in the cistern of regular Jack?

Is it given albeit not full to the buyer of the barrel?

Gary



Why do you think that the bottling crew always has that "Rosy Glow" Gary?
Joe http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

BarItemsPlus1
11-29-2005, 18:49
Ok, well I will have to give Jack a buzz http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif..I mean phone call or email and see what is on offer. Once I have my liquor license it shouldn't be a problem for me http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif to by the barrel and have it shipped here, but I will obviously have to make further enquiries.
I am currently arranging a few casks of scotch(soz http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif Julian and Jimmy, it's a bit easier - but I do understand that bourbon is also not as old and plentiful)

So once I have the Scotch organised I will then move on to the bourbon http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif

TNbourbon
11-29-2005, 19:19
...Once I have my liquor license it shouldn't be a problem for me http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif to b(u)y the barrel and have it shipped here, but I will obviously have to make further enquiries...



You're in Australia, right? From reports of some of your fellow Aussies on the board here, I suspect the customs/taxes and shipping may wind up costing more than the whiskey -- but, maybe not.
Best of luck!

BarItemsPlus1
11-29-2005, 19:52
Yes Tim, to a degree you are correct. I am currently compiling a report on the duties on alcohol worldwide and my friend I can tell you that we pay through the teeth for grog here(at least the taxes on it) and also the duties have just been increased in the last few months.
Tim I have read a number of your reports/posts here and I must say that they are quite interesting reading! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/coffeedrinker.gif

I can also sympathise a little with your concerns and frustrations at eBay, but unfortunately BT won't release their product on to the Ozzy market and so most Australians have to purchase from eBay to get these particular bottles. I am fortunate enough to have a friend in the US who supplies me with my bottles and because I am only getting a few at a time it isn't so bad on the hip pocket, but to have a case of say Stagg shipped here, well it makes the retail price around AU$250+ a bottle.
I have to say that there is a very big demand for that bourbon here, but unfortunately due to the high rates of duty BT are unable to release it here.

Tim I am in the process of writing an article about how high rates of duties inevitably effect the whisky industry. I was actually reading an article this morning in Melbournes daily paper, reporting that the President of The Royal Australasian College of Physicians has called on our federal government to further increase tax on drinks with a higher alcoholic content. She has also said the money should be put towards research into alcohol-related illness.

Of course she is going to bloody say that http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/hot.gif But unfortunately that's what sort of people are in highly responsible positions, making decisions based on personal gain!!
Basicly the way companies get around the higher tax rates is to release all these bloody Ready To Drink pre-mix cans, and then market them at the younger age groups so they sell more and ultimately regain any lost profit.

Anyway Tim, I have raved on a bit http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif but it is really good to get feedback from people on this subject.
Drop us a line sometime - PM me
Cheers,
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gifTroy.

Ken Weber
11-30-2005, 07:21
We sell hundreds of barrels of bourbon from BTD every year to individuals who come to the distillery and select from among Buffalo Trace, Blanton's, Eagle Rare, Elmer T. Lee, etc.

Ken

Ken Weber
11-30-2005, 07:23
Gary,
If you end up with 11 bottles, all of that is dumped into the big JD vat for bottling as regular JD. We do the same here in the case of Buffalo Trace and other bourbons. If we have less than a full case of Eagle Rare, it will go into the next batch of BT.

Ken

Ken Weber
11-30-2005, 07:25
Just as an FYI, if you want something from Buffalo Trace, you get to call me now!

Ken

Edward_call_me_Ed
11-30-2005, 08:49
Hi Ken,
How much? Ball park.
I asked a tour guide that question at the Yoichi distillery here in Hokkaido and got a silly answer. No can do but if we could $10,000 for a barrel? (That can't be right, but that is what my faulty memory is telling me. I think retail would be cheaper.
Ed

BarItemsPlus1
11-30-2005, 12:32
G'day Ken, does Candy no longer work there or have you been assigned a new position @ BT, or do you now take care of Kris's position?? http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Can you advise on what the barrels cost too Ken(the empty ones), Cheers mate. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

bobbyc
11-30-2005, 17:40
$10,000 for a barrel?



In 2002 Chris Morris at Labrot & Graham said he thought the barrels there, thru Wolfgang Puck were in the 8-12,000 dollar range, Give me 2! I said. No actually the end of the conversation was when he gave me the price. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif

BarItemsPlus1
11-30-2005, 23:29
I actually asked about Woodford's barrels but I was told that they sell theirs all on to Scotland and I ain't going to argue with that!
I would really love to see what a fresh spirit would come out like after maturing in a rye barrel(say Eagle Rare 17yr)
Does anyone know who BT sells their barrels to to be refilled with Scotch? Ken can you help on this one??

bobbyc
12-01-2005, 11:04
I think I missed something. If it's just an empty used bourbon barrel, they can be had from Beam or HH for a shade under 50 dollars. The Woodford I refer to for 8-12,000 dollars is the single barrel of aged spirit.

Rughi
12-01-2005, 11:25
Wolfgang Puck is a bourbon middleman?

Do tell...

BarItemsPlus1
12-01-2005, 12:48
Do you have any contact details for Beam and HH. I had no idea the empties were that readily available and for US$50 http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I could afford a few barrels at that price http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I spose shipping would be the most expensive part in buying the barrels.

bobbyc
12-01-2005, 13:40
Wolfgang Puck is a bourbon middleman?



I don't have all the details but once there was an article listing all the famous or near so folks who had a barrel aging for them at LG. Julia Child was one and I would suppose that she didn't get it or it is in her estate. The former Gov of Ky was also in.

bobbyc
12-01-2005, 13:48
Do you have any contact details for Beam and HH.



The outpost sells them at Jim Beam,Don't know the contact at HH. A call to either distillery will get you in touch with the right person, they are businesses and they don't make it difficult to find and buy what they have for sale.

wadewood
12-01-2005, 15:43
During the tour at Woodford, when they stop in racks, Julia Child's hand signed barrel is right at that point.

BarItemsPlus1
12-03-2005, 07:15
Just want to thank everyone who replied, your advise and information has and will be most useful http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/thankyousign.gif
Troy @ Bar Items Plus, Australia
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Ken Weber
12-11-2005, 10:56
Candy is still here and Kris is taking a more active role in the domestic bourbon market. I get to do some more consumer and trade relations responsibilities. An emtpy used barrel costs around $25. A barrel of Buffalo Trace yields around 240 bottles. Simply take the current shelf price and multiply by 240 to get the price of a barrel of BT.

Ken

Ken Weber
12-11-2005, 11:04
This is actually somewhat of a proprietary question. We used to sell all of our barrels on the open market and most went to Scotland. We now send most of our barrels to specific distillers in the scotch, rum, beer, and tequila business. They have asked that we not reveal who they are.

Many of our customers come to the distillery, sample our wide array of barrels and then select the brand they believe will best impact their brands. We sell different styles to different folks.

Ken