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cowdery
03-07-2000, 18:11
Buffalo Trace is the new name for Leestown/Ancient Age, which is owned by Sazerac. They also make Blanton's and several other bourbons. They originated the single barrel concept with Blantons. They have launched a new web site for Buffalo Trace (http://www.buffalotrace.com) that is pretty cool.

Has anybody tried the whiskey yet?

- chuck

**DONOTDELETE**
03-19-2000, 12:56
I tried Buffalo Trace at last fall's bourbon festival. It is very good. A couple of months ago, I finally saw it in a restaurant here in town (Lexington), but I
could not find it in any stores. About a week ago I finally found it, and I bought a bottle yesterday. For the $15.99 price, it is one of the best bourbons
on the market, IMHO -- a great bargain at the very least.


DirtyCowboy

**DONOTDELETE**
03-19-2000, 16:12
I've tried it. I hope Wee is following this thread, because it just might be the whiskey he's looking for. There really is a flavor that seems to distinguish bourbons made in and before the early seventies, although I can't describe it (at least not in very palatable terms). I didn't like it at first, but I've become quite fond of it lately. Evan Williams 18 year-old has it. Pappy Van Winkle 20 year-old has it in spades. And at a far more reachable price, Buffalo Trace has it. For what it's worth, it makes me think of the way the air in a newly-plowed field tastes. That may not sound appealing, but it's becoming that way to me.

Anyway, just about all the old whiskies I've tasted have that flavor in differing degrees. I used to think it was due to oxidation, but the bottles I've opened haven't really evaporated much. I think it's just the "old fashioned" way of making bourbon, and I certainly find that in Buffalo Trace.

I spoke to a tour guide, Rita, at the distillery and she assured me that Buffalo Trace is made from a completely different mash bill from the other Ancient Age products, and it is also warehoused separately.

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

cowdery
03-19-2000, 16:35
As much as I hate to doubt the word of a tour guide, that plant historically has made one formula, period. There is nothing technical to prevent them from using a different mash bill or a different yeast for Buffalo Trace, but I wonder why they would. That is, I wonder what the difference is? A shift in the mash bill by a few percentage points one way or the other isn't worth the trouble. It would need to be a fairly large change, a significant increase in the percentage of rye, for example.

This becomes even more interesting when you consider the fact that they have changed the name of the distillery to Buffalo Trace. We may have to do a little digging...

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-19-2000, 19:44
What? Ye dare cast suspicion upon the words of the tour guide? Have you no shame? :-)

Right from the get-go I've felt that the transformation to Buffalo Trace seems to be fundamentally different than the change from Ancient Age to Blanton, or from Stagg to E.H.Taylor, or Sazerac, or whatever. They really seem committed to establishing Buffalo Trace as the brand by which the distillery is to known, even to the point of intentionally ignoring the fact that it's only one of at least half a dozen (previously) well-known brands that they at least claim to be continuing to market (although absolute ZERO advertising can be found for any other brand, and they are not mentioned at all on the web site).

The distillery tour, by the way, is a bit schizophrenic in that the pre-tour video presentation is all about Buffalo Trace and nothing else, whereas the tour itself focuses only upon Blanton's and nothing of Buffalo Trace is ever shown or mentioned. Curious; let us know what you find out...


-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

cowdery
03-20-2000, 11:31
FYI, the other brands are covered at the Sazerac (http://www.sazerac.com) web site.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-20-2000, 17:09
Thanks, Chuck. Okay, let me re-phrase that...

People who are attracted to Buffalo Trace's website as a result of their excellent current advertising campaign will not see anything (including a link to Sazerac) to indicate this is the distillery where all these other fine whiskeys have been made for years. If I didn't already know what distillery Buffalo Trace was, nothing on that website would have provided any enlightenment.

Curiously, there's a sub-page titled <u>Unique Facts (http://www.buffalotrace.com/distillery_history_m.html)</u>, in which one of the facts cited is "Buffalo Trace is the only distillery using five recipes for whiskey products–two rye, one barley, one pure rye, and one wheat..."

Since you pointed out that there has always been only one formula, even if Buffalo Trace brings that to two, just what are these other whiskey products? Pure rye? Wheat? (maybe they mean the wheated Old Weller). Barley???? If anyone can get to the bottom of all this, Chuck, I believe you can. After all, I think I know a bit about Bourbon, and I've learned over half of everything I know from you. Now GET OUT THERE AND SNOOP! The rest of us are COUNTING ON YOU!! :-)

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

cowdery
03-21-2000, 08:58
Interesting. The wheat recipe probably is for Weller, but I do wonder about the rest. I'll see what I can find out.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-21-2000, 14:38
John,
I definitely will give this a try - It has not reached the Atlanta market yet but have already asked my local shop to order some - I'm looking forward to it - It would seem that we are not the only one's that can taste a difference in older stock - I've also asked that he hold a bottle of "Pappy 20" for me as well - He said he orders two cases a week and they are gone within 48 hours - I just purchased a bottle of Booker's from a private collection (v.1965-66) - I'm hoping it will have that "quality" that we both seem to taste - Will let you know

**DONOTDELETE**
03-22-2000, 04:46
Wee - I'm not sure just what you're buying from that private collection, but if it's from 1965-66 it's sure not Booker's. I don't even think Booker was the distiller then (I believe it was Carl Beam). The tenth anniversary bottling (batch C90-B-8) came out in 1998, which would indicate that the first whiskey destined to become Booker's was distilled in 1980.

So what you bought may turn out to be just regular ol' Booker's (nothing wrong with that if you didn't pay a premium for it), or it might be something else that actually WAS made or bottled in the mid-sixties. That would be good, too. Let us know how it turns out!!


-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
03-22-2000, 07:07
John,
The Lot number on the bottle is No. C-B-16-79 No. 01603 - Now that I see how the code is read it must mean v.1979 - What you don't know can hurt you/wwwthreads/images/frown.gif -

I think I'll keep it though, as I only paid $30.00 for it - Thirty's not too bad, it came in a small stamped wooden box - At least us newbies give you old timers something to laugh at - Thanks for the tip

Wee
<font color=blue>[i][b]A bad day with wine,...is still a pretty good day-Justin Wilson[b][i]<font color=blue>/wwwthreads/images/wink.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
03-22-2000, 14:48
> The Lot number on the bottle is No. C-B-16-79 No. 01603 - Now that I see how the code is read it must mean v.1979 - What you don't know can hurt you

Well, I wouldn't say that...

It looks like you did indeed get quite an important bottling. That would likely be the very first year (I had guessed 1980 based on the date of the 10th anniversary bottling, but Booker's not bottled in exact one-year segments so 1979 would probably be just about right).

And THIRTY DOLLARS???

Uh, are you able to get any more at that price? :-)

Signed, Envious in Cincinnati

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

cowdery
03-23-2000, 10:17
Booker's is Beam whiskey, same exact formula. It becomes Booker's only when the barrels are selected in the warehouse. Booker believes that bourbon matures at 6 to 8 years and the first bottlings under the Booker's label were created by the company as business gifts in, I believe, 1986 or 1987. They didn't start to sell it to the public until a few years later. I am pretty sure it was before I left Kentucky. I can remember where I was and who I was with (she was cute) when I had my first taste of Booker's, but I don't remember the exact date. Anyway, 1980 sounds about right for the year of distillation. You could certainly have Beam whiskey made earlier, but it wouldn't have been called Booker's.

You're probably right about Carl, although Booker was certainly working there in the 60s. Baker, Carl's son, followed Booker in the job and has his own Small Batch bourbon. I know that even when Booker had the title "Master Distiller," Baker was actually running the Clermont plant, and presumably someone else was the distiller at the Boston (Kentucky) plant.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

cowdery
03-23-2000, 10:23
Don't put your bid in too fast, John. Wee used the term "small" to describe the wooden box that contained his bottle of Booker's. If the box is small, how big is the bottle? Remembering that those early bottles were made as gifts, they may have done some as 375ml or other smaller sizes. I believe they still do make the 50ml, which they sell in a set with the other Small Batchers...in a small wooden box.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-28-2000, 05:59
I believe I spoke to the same tour guide. Rita is a charming lady, and since it was just the two of us, I was able to ask whatever I liked. I asked her directly about the Weller brand that had been bought by Serzac, and she said that they are producing that here in the Frankfort Distillery. Since that's a wheated product as opposed to all the other Buffalo Trace bourbons, it sounds like they've expanded the variety of recipies they're using.