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cowdery
01-17-2006, 14:49
I despair for my nation. Exhibit: "Vodkas outsell every other spirit combined." Stephen Cunningham, Nightclub and Bar Magazine, January 2006.

pepcycle
01-17-2006, 15:01
Don't Despair, Enjoy.
Our preferred spirit choice is not for everyone.
That's one of the reasons I like it.
(The Whole "Road Less Travelled" thing)
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

barturtle
01-17-2006, 16:48
If whiskey were to suddenly outsell vodka, can you even begin to imagine the kind of supply problem we'd be in right now?

Of course, if it had been selling that well all along, we might have a few more distilleries producing some products we'd all be chasing after.

TNbourbon
01-17-2006, 18:54
If whiskey were to suddenly outsell vodka, can you even begin to imagine the kind of supply problem we'd be in right now?..



That cinches it -- I'm stocking up! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smilielol.gif

barturtle
01-17-2006, 19:54
That cinches it -- I'm stocking up!



If you're not stocked up, then I'm in serious trouble! http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smil41df29a15fb35.gif

kbuzbee
01-18-2006, 04:35
Yeah, me too.

And Chuck, if only people drinking tasteless spirits were our biggest problem!

Ken

camduncan
01-18-2006, 04:49
Yeah, my biggest issue is that whilst we do get some fantastic bourbons Downunder, some of the best bourbon on offer from the bourbon world will probably never make it to us http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif

kbuzbee
01-18-2006, 06:52
Yeah, but you have shrimp on Barbie.... er, on THE barbie... whatever......

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Ken

robbyvirus
01-19-2006, 00:10
I despair for my nation. Exhibit: "Vodkas outsell every other spirit combined." Stephen Cunningham, Nightclub and Bar Magazine, January 2006.



This reminds me of a time about two years ago when I visited a brew pub in St. Louis. I went inside and sat at the bar and had a couple of their beers they brewed...an IPA and a stout. They were absolutely great...rich, full of taste, just awesome beer. As I sat there drinking them, five or six guys came up to the bar over the course of 15 minutes or so and ordered Bud Lights. I asked the bartender why all these people were ordering Bud Light. He shook his head and said it was their best selling beer.

Virus_Of_Life
01-19-2006, 02:30
Don't Despair, Enjoy.
Our preferred spirit choice is not for everyone.
That's one of the reasons I like it.
(The Whole "Road Less Travelled" thing)
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif



I raise a glass to that!

Consider if you will the relatively recent “birth” of bourbon, now I am may be completely wrong here and am going strictly off memory so if I am feel free to correct me, but I believe bourbon’s origins can be traced back to the late 1700s sometime? Vodka and scotch for that matter can both be traced back to the 1400s. Again I am strictly going off what I can recall in my studies, which by the way should be on business law, econ and philosophy, but I digress. I sincerely think, as others have mentioned here, we should ENJOY that this chosen spirit of ours is currently less popular than vodka (and scotch). I mean lets be honest it’s incredibly doubtful that anything will ever overtake vodka’s popularity when you consider that probably the world’s favorite cocktail is made with vodka, or gin I guess though I’ve never had a gin martini. Is that even considered a martini? Heck I ain’t even sure anymore!

I think we will see an increase in the popularity of bourbon soon, most likely we are already seeing it. And I would not be surprised if, as everything American it becomes the most popular spirit, sans vodka, sometime ‘soon’ – maybe not our lifetime though. After all it was just a year or two ago that we saw Bill Murray nominated for an award for a movie he stared in where his job was to market a whisk(e)y in JAPAN. Yes I know it was not bourbon but still how long before the Japanese who are often fond of American products take up bourbon? “Whisky, whether domestic or imported, is a very popular drink among Japanese consumers, perhaps even more popular than Sake.”

Consider also the price aspect, a good bourbon can be for a relatively low price, under $20 I think we’d all agree there are some very good bourbons! And yes you can get a pretty good vodka for that, you don’t drink it the same way - have you ever tried a scotch for less than $20? I have. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/puke.gif

Excuse my blind http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif American pride here for a moment: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/893drillsergeant-thumb.gif Enjoy it now, sit back, hold on and watch as us Americans prove yet again, we are the best at whatever we set out to do!
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif

Edward_call_me_Ed
01-19-2006, 08:05
Hi Christian,
Believe me, the Japanese already know about bourbon. Indeed, the yen is one of the driving forces behind the premium bourbon market. I can get things here that are hard to come by in the States. You guys back home can get stuff I can't, so don't feel too left out and you pay less, too. Europe is a big growth market as well.

As for Scotch being an older tradition than bourbon, well, yes and no. IMHO. Certainly, whisky has been distilled in Scotland for longer. But, I think, that bourbon, from the late 1700s or at least from the mid 1800s, at least the good stuff, would be recognizable as bourbon. I doubt that scotch from that time would be seen as a premium malt whisky. In fact, not so long ago it was infused with herbs and was rarely aged. (If I had a time machine I would very much like to try Scotch whisky from that time...) In a very real way, single malt scotch is a very recent phenomenon. Malt whisky was something to be used as an ingredient in blends, not a revered and expensive spirit. Of course, there was a very small market for single malt scotch whisky in Scotland before the 1960s. But it certainly wasn't widely available abroad.

This is all over simplified. But bourbon is by no means a rank newcomer to the world of spirits.

As for martinis, gin vs. vodka, are you sure you haven't got it backwards? I could be wrong, but I think the gin martini is the traditional drink. There is an interesting thread on favorite martini recipes in this thread. I look forward to seeing yours.
Ed

Edward_call_me_Ed
01-19-2006, 08:06
Kids today....
Ed

ratcheer
01-19-2006, 17:35
Yes, gin is the traditional spirit for the martini. I don't even consider a vodka "martini" to be a martini. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Tim

Virus_Of_Life
01-19-2006, 18:26
Yes, gin is the traditional spirit for the martini. I don't even consider a vodka "martini" to be a martini. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Tim



This is very strange to me as I have never received Gin when I order a martini (not that I order one too often, usually it's my company), the bar keep usually replies with "is there any particular vodka you'd like?" Please excuse my extreme ignorance in this issue - maybe without even realizing it I say a vodka martini, or the company I am with says it? Strange, now I want to try a gin martini, doubt I'll like it though as I am not fond of gin... Sorry again.

So is there any name for the non martini vodka martini?

Edward_call_me_Ed
01-19-2006, 22:28
No need to apologize to a bunch of bourbon drinkers on the subject of vodka martinis. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No need to switch to gin based martinis, either. Try one and see if you like it, by all means, then drink what you like. I have had just one martini in my life, which I made myself after reading the martini thread. I think I will make one tonight.
Ed

chasking
01-20-2006, 02:16
I was at a party once where the hosts had hired a bartender to run a martini bar. They produced a staggering array of drinks in a rainbow of colors... When I asked for a martini, I was asked, "What kind?" When I explained that I wanted a traditional gin martini, I was informed that they didn't have any gin. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif At least they had vermouth.

Nowadays, I think "martini" means "mixed drink served in one of those inverted-cone glasses". I think we should make up a recipe for a "bourbon martini".

pepcycle
01-20-2006, 09:59
"Anything served Up" is a martini these days.
In this months Wine Spectator there is a Bailey's add pushing the Bailey's Martini.
Recipe: Shake Baileys with ice and serve in a martini glass.

Its not unusual to see Lobster or Shrimp Martinis on menus.

The word Martini is hotter than "With Chlorophyll" was in the 60's.

Ed

chasking
01-20-2006, 10:43
"Anything served Up" is a martini these days.
In this months Wine Spectator there is a Bailey's add pushing the Bailey's Martini.
Recipe: Shake Baileys with ice and serve in a martini glass.




Works for me:

<u>BOURBON MARTINI</u>

Shake bourbon with ice.
Serve in a martini glass, garnished with maraschino cherries and a twist.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To make it more complicated and thus more hoity-toity (the ultimate measure of success of any nouveau martini, besides having an inoffensive, easy-to-slurp flavor), I suppose one could mandate a specific blend of whiskies, i.e.,

2 shots Weller 12yo
1 shot Wild Turkey Rye
dash of Lot 40
Shake with ice; etc.

Maybe some of our resident blending enthusiasts can suggest some combinations.

cowdery
01-20-2006, 22:02
Personally, I consider a martini to be three or four parts gin to one part dry vermouth, garnished with one or more olives. However, in reality the baseline martini to most Americans, on both sides of the bar, is vodka with some tiny amount of vermouth. Then came the -tini craze, where just about anything stirred or shaken with ice and served up in a martini glass could be called a martini. You might say gin is "old school" and vodka is "new school," but I can't say one is right and the other wrong. When to so many people, martini means vodka, you just can't say it's "wrong."

robbyvirus
01-21-2006, 01:17
I think we should make up a recipe for a "bourbon martini".

Um, I think it's called a Manhattan.

kitzg
01-21-2006, 09:09
The Bourbon Martini:
pour 2 shots good bourbon
pour 1 shot of anything else in another glass
throw out the contents of the second glass
drink the bourbon
;-)

yes, I know it is an old line redone -- but fitting

ratcheer
01-21-2006, 18:20
Um, I think it's called a Manhattan.

Precisely so!

Tim

chasking
01-22-2006, 08:51
Um, I think it's called a Manhattan.

No, because Manhattans are not traditionally served in those hip inverted-cone glasses! Everyone knows that the identifying characteristic of a martini is being served in one of those glasses.

Conceptually and based on the ingredients, I agree that a Manhattan could be called a bourbon martini, and of course you COULD serve one in a martini glass. But look at it this way: the lack of an established "bourbon martini" provides an opportunity to come up with a new bourbon-based cocktail.

Joeluka
01-22-2006, 09:02
No, because Manhattans are not traditionally served in those hip inverted-cone glasses! Everyone knows that the identifying characteristic of a martini is being served in one of those glasses.

Conceptually and based on the ingredients, I agree that a Manhattan could be called a bourbon martini, and of course you COULD serve one in a martini glass. But look at it this way: the lack of an established "bourbon martini" provides an opportunity to come up with a new bourbon-based cocktail.


Then what do you put a straight up Manhattan in if not a martini glass???

Joe

scratchline
01-22-2006, 10:02
IMHO, this is the definitive word on the martini.

http://www.coldbacon.com/movies/bunuel-martini.html

If you have never read Bunuel's autobiography, it is filled with wonderful things like this meditation on the martini. It is traditional to observe his birthday by drinking one of these, or three.

robbyvirus
01-22-2006, 22:41
No, because Manhattans are not traditionally served in those hip inverted-cone glasses! Everyone knows that the identifying characteristic of a martini is being served in one of those glasses.

Conceptually and based on the ingredients, I agree that a Manhattan could be called a bourbon martini, and of course you COULD serve one in a martini glass. But look at it this way: the lack of an established "bourbon martini" provides an opportunity to come up with a new bourbon-based cocktail.

Have you ordered a Manhattan in a bar recently? Most places, at least out here in California, serve them straight up in a martini glass.

chasking
01-23-2006, 09:20
Have you ordered a Manhattan in a bar recently? Most places, at least out here in California, serve them straight up in a martini glass.

Actually, no. My mistake then.

barturtle
01-23-2006, 10:12
IIRC there was once a cocktail glass that was shaped kinda like a martini glass, but with shorter, thicker stem and more upright sides that had an oldly angled curve into the stem. I vaguely remember seeing them in older bars, but think they have since disappeared. I'll see if I can find a picture, Drinks that were served up were commonly served up(sours, manhattens, etc) were commonly served in these. I'm not sure if it was traditional, but it seems more likely than a martini glass.

JeffRenner
01-23-2006, 13:25
Have you ordered a Manhattan in a bar recently? Most places, at least out here in California, serve them straight up in a martini glass.
I don't think that this is just a California thing, or recent, or a fad. I learned to make Manhattans recently (like in the late 90's) from Regan and Regan's The Book of Bourbon (published in 1995, but which I note on the flyleaf that I bought in Bardstown on June 8, 1999).

They specify serving it up in a cocktail glass, and have a color illustration with an unusual and very elegant cocktail glass that is like the flared bell of a trumpet, but more shallow. If do a google search for "manhattan cocktail recipe" you will find that most specify serving them up.

R&R also specify a sweeter Manhattan than some recipes - in their Bourbon Companion (1998) they say two parts whiskey to one part sweet vermouth although in the earlier book, they say 2-1/2 whiskey to 1/2 - 1-1/2 vermouth, depending on your taste. I like the 2:1 ratio.

In many bars, you often get them made like a martini, with hardly any vermouth and often without bitters, then served on rocks.

Speaking of bitters, though I made some orange bitters from the recipe in the Regans' book (didn't turn out that well) and now have a bottle I of their orange bitters from Sazerac, I prefer Angostura.

And I agree with the Regans on the necessity of bitters. They write, "Without any bitters at all, a Manhattan is no more than a dexent mixture; with them, it is a dazzling cocktail that will bring a sparkle to the eyes and put a slick step back into a pair of tired dancing feet."

I found out too late from my mother that my father, who died in 1993, had been fond of Manhattans in his younger days (he was mostly a highball drinker by the time I remember). How I wish I had had a chance to share a few with him. Fortunately, I introduced my son to them, and we get that chance occasionally, although he lives nearly 2000 miles away.

Jeff

NeoTexan
01-23-2006, 14:19
Maker's put out a cocktail glass for Manhattans a few years ago.

barturtle
01-23-2006, 20:24
Okay found a pic of the type of glass I was referring to:

2277

Rughi
01-24-2006, 14:48
The first Manhattan I ever had on the rocks was one graciously handed to me by Jeff, the outgoing BOTY-05, at the gazebo. It was really well made, but I can't say it didn't freak me out to see those foreign objects floating in my drink. Flashbacks to bad acting in the Poseidon Adventure and everything. Was a Manhattan traditionally served on the rocks?

I agree with Regan that bitters makes it a Manhattan as opposed to cold bourbon. I've tried his orange bitters (from BT gift shop), but what I really like is the Fee Brothers Angostura and Orange bitters. I use a couple shakes of each. Their site is at:
http://www.feebrothers.com/Product.asp?Category=5

A previous thread about bitters is here:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4134

Roger - Shaken, not Stirred - Hodges

jeff
01-24-2006, 19:44
I'm glad you liked the Manhattan Roger, and I agree that a good one wouldn't be served on the rocks, but then I made it, huh:D IIRC we were sans shaker/strainer at the table and, I'm almost ashamed to admit it, Leslie will put ice in hers to keep it extra cold:eek:, so I'm used to making them that way

Rughi
01-25-2006, 09:10
Why Jeff,
Every mixed drink you've ever made for me has been excelllent.

Perhaps mixology should be one of the side duties for the new reigning BOTY. That and bringing a self-supporting apron for clean-up time. ;)

cowdery
01-26-2006, 00:41
I recently received a pair of "Manhattan glasses" from one of the distilleries and they are, in fact, martini glasses, though slightly small by modern martini glass standards.

I prefer Manhattans on-the-rocks.

BourbonJoe
01-26-2006, 05:53
I also prefer Manhattans on the rocks. My favorite Manhattan is a classic 2 to 1 mix of Canadian Whiskey and Sweet Vermouth, a dash of Angostura bitters and a half teaspoon of maraschino cherry juice. MMMM MMMM GOOD.
Joe :D

NeoTexan
01-26-2006, 08:19
I recently received a pair of "Manhattan glasses" from one of the distilleries and they are, in fact, martini glasses, though slightly small by modern martini glass standards.

I prefer Manhattans on-the-rocks.

I was always under the understanding that what people call martini glasses are in reality called cocktail glasses by the industry. Years of martini's going in them changed their designation, first with the public and then the bartenders.

See:

http://www.drinknation.com/glasses/Cocktail-glass