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SBOmarc
02-13-2006, 12:32
Made batches of Manhattan's for a cocktail party over the weekend. Among the bottles used were Beam Black, Maker's Mark, WT 101 and OGD 86. ( It was a well attended party ). By far the best drink was the Maker's rendition. All were mixed the same way at the same ratios of whiskey, sweet vermouth and spring water. The water helps when batching. Looking for other versions and bottles that are used for this drink.

TNbourbon
02-13-2006, 13:07
Take a look at this thread:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3117&highlight=Manhattan

wrbriggs
02-13-2006, 13:35
Made batches of Manhattan's for a cocktail party over the weekend. Among the bottles used were Beam Black, Maker's Mark, WT 101 and OGD 86. ( It was a well attended party ). By far the best drink was the Maker's rendition. All were mixed the same way at the same ratios of whiskey, sweet vermouth and spring water. The water helps when batching. Looking for other versions and bottles that are used for this drink.
I don't see any bitters listed in your recipe!! Ah well, it seems fewer people enjoy bitters nowadays anyway.

I'm not surprised that Maker's created the most popular Manhattan, as it is (at least IMHO) an approachable, rather bland and inoffensive bourbon.

Traditionally, a good Manhattan is made with a rye-heavy bourbon like OGD, or a straight rye whiskey like Old Overholt or Rittenhouse BIB.

If you are interested in the Manhattan, you owe it to yourself to try one made w/ bitters and a straight rye whiskey.

kbuzbee
02-13-2006, 14:32
By far the best drink was the Maker's rendition.... Looking for other versions and bottles that are used for this drink.

Bill Samuel's was quoted saying he prefers his bitters free. Here is his recipe:



The “Maker’s Mark Manhattan”
Ingredients:
1.5 oz Maker’s Mark
.5 oz Sweet Vermouth, we recommend you try Carpano
1 teaspoon of maraschino cherry juice
Maraschino cherry
Fill Maker’s Mark cocktail shaker * full with ice; add 1.5 oz Maker’s Mark, .5 oz Sweet vermouth, and maraschino cherry juice. Shake for 30 seconds (as above). Strain into chilled Manhattan glass. Garnish with a maraschino cherry.

Not a big cocktail fan, myself but I may try this one day.

kbuzbee
02-13-2006, 14:41
I'm not surprised that Maker's created the most popular Manhattan, as it is (at least IMHO) an approachable, rather bland and inoffensive bourbon.

There was a time a while back when I would have agreed with you. I really enjoy strong Rye flavor (WT Rye is just wonderful). But today, I have to disagree with the "bland" part. It is definitly more subtle than a huge Rye flavored Bourbon but delicious in its own right. I've recently been re-appreciating the joys of Maker's and have been opening up a whole new world I'd been dismissing. Maker's has a wonderful nose and, given time to develope in the glass, rewards the palate with a smooth but enjoyable taste that differs from the rye crowd. We are fortunate to have such variety.

Ken

wrbriggs
02-13-2006, 14:43
Bill Samuel's was quoted saying he prefers his bitters free. Here is his recipe
Well, I don't honestly think a Manhattan made w/ Maker's could stand up to having the bitters added - Maker's is so mild that it wouldn't work w/ bitters; so it makes sense Bill prefers them without, since he would hardly recommend a recipe that would taste poorly when made with his whiskey.

wrbriggs
02-13-2006, 14:46
There was a time a while back when I would have agreed with you. I really enjoy strong Rye flavor (WT Rye is just wonderful). But today, I have to disagree with the "bland" part. It is definitly more subtle than a huge Rye flavored Bourbon but delicious in its own right. I've recently been re-appreciating the joys of Maker's and have been opening up a whole new world I'd been dismissing. Maker's has a wonderful nose and, given time to develope in the glass, rewards the palate with a smooth but enjoyable taste that differs from the rye crowd. We are fortunate to have such variety.

Ken
Perhaps I misspoke; I did mean "bland" in the pejorative fashion... I meant bland as defined by:

Characterized by a moderate, unperturbed, or tranquil quality
I think we can all agree that whether or not we like Maker's, it is not a flavor powerhouse - it is a moderately flavored bourbon; if you enjoy this type of flavor, more power to you.

cowdery
02-13-2006, 16:20
For what it's worth, my favorite manhattan uses Rittenhouse Rye BIB, sweet vermouth and a few healthy splashes of bitters, on the rocks, no garnish, but that's just me. Whatever floats your boat.

brian12069
02-13-2006, 16:34
I have always made my Manhattans with bourbon that is not my favorite neat. Ever buy a bottle of bourbon because it's inexpensive or on sale and you just wanted to try it? Then you find it was not so great. This is a good way for me to use up those bourbons and still enjoy them, they always make a nice Manhattan...and yes...add the bitters!

BourbonJoe
02-13-2006, 16:43
I prefer my Manhattans made with Canadian Whiskey rather than Bourbon. Bourbon in a Manhattan is just a tad too sweet for me. I can drink 'em but I prefer Canadian Whiskey. Just me I guess.
Joe :usflag:

Gillman
02-13-2006, 16:53
I (no surprise) combine the ways described by our last three correspondents: I blend Canadian whisky, one or 10 bourbons, and 1 or 2 straight ryes. First I get the balance right, then I add red vermouth (any kind: currently am using Dubonnet, which is in effect a proprietary vermouth). Bitters are optional but not really necessary, especially with Dubonnet which has a lingering bitter of its own of some kind. I rarely use ice. Cherry, yes. The Canadian whisky ends up being about 20% of the whole.

Gary

brian12069
02-13-2006, 17:05
I (no surprise) combine the ways described by our last three correspondents: I blend Canadian whisky, one or 10 bourbons, and 1 or 2 straight ryes. First I get the balance right, then I add red vermouth (any kind: currently am using Dubonnet, which is in effect a proprietary vermouth). Bitters are optional but not really necessary, especially with Dubonnet which has a lingering bitter of its own of some kind. I rarely use ice. Cherry, yes. The Canadian whisky ends up being about 20% of the whole.

Gary
When you say rarely use ice, you mean not on the rocks? or no ice at all?

brian12069
02-13-2006, 17:36
All this Manhattan talk! I had to make one, haven't had one in months. 1.5 oz of Walker's Deluxe bourbon, 1/4 oz Vermouth, dash of bitters on the rocks. Very good...

Gillman
02-13-2006, 18:12
I put no ice in the Manhattan. I read once that the original Manhattan did not use ice, so I tried it, and it rocks. :) You can use less vermouth that way because the residual sweetness of the bourbon isn't blunted. The texture of the drink is correct that way, too. Some people shake with ice and pour neat into an up glass. That's okay, but the chill takes away some of the flavour. The Sazerac also traditionally did not use ice and I find it suits the Manhattan too, and the sour.

Gary

SBOmarc
02-13-2006, 21:49
Used to use bitters but it seeemed to me that the shelf life was suspect on them. When I made the batches I id not use them and no one complained.

ratcheer
02-23-2006, 18:30
I had my first Sazerac cocktail, last night, and I really enjoyed it.

Actually, it was an ersatz Sazerac cocktail. I went to the ABC to buy some Pernod to make it with, but they don't carry it (they don't carry much of anything, anymore :hot:). The closest thing he had was Sambuca Romana. After agonizing over it for a while, I bought it, anyway.

I also have no rye whiskey or Peychaud's bitters. :skep:

So, I took a teaspoon of sugar (at least it was real :grin:) and a few drops of water. Then 2 oz of WT101, 4 dashes Angostura bitters, a very small splash of the Sambuca, and ice cubes. I decided the hell with the exacting methodology with such bastardized ingredients.

Like I said at the beginning, it was very tasty. For some reason, even though there was nothing in common, it reminded me strongly of the Rusty Nails I used to drink way back in my college days.

Tonight, I want to attempt a Manhattan cocktail. At least they had real Martini and Rossi sweet vermouth!

Tim

Gillman
02-23-2006, 18:35
Tim, you did very well. Sambuca is fine because it is an anise-based drink, just like Pernod or most Absinthe (ancestor of Pernod). As I recall, Sambuca is somewhat sweetened, so possibly you could have dispensed with the teaspoon of sugar; but a little extra sugar never hurt anyone. You made a genuine Sazerac, it sounds great.

Gary

SBOmarc
02-23-2006, 20:48
Great job with this string because if there is one thing I have found out about Sazerac's is that you better make them yourself. No one in my extensive bar travels, at least out here in SoCal can begin to make a proper one.

CrispyCritter
02-24-2006, 00:02
So far, the only Sazeracs I've had have either been mix-it-yourself, or the bottled version. The bottled one needs an extra dash or two of Peychaud's (and the twist of lemon peel), but it's still good.

I'm not sure I could even get a proper Sazerac at a bar this far north, unless I showed the bartender how to do it. :slappin:

I recently got a bottle of Pontarlier-Anis pastis - it'll be interesting to see how well it works in a Sazerac. I tried a couple of glasses of it, in 5:1 and 4:2 dilutions with water, no sugar added, and it's noticeably better than Herbsaint (but Herbsaint is not bad at all). The 4:2 dilution worked best for me, but I might try 5:1 plus sugar the next time I drink it.

Of course, if you only use pastis in Sazeracs, one bottle will last just about forever... fortunately, I like it on its own (with proper dilution).

ratcheer
02-24-2006, 15:58
Tim, you did very well. Sambuca is fine because it is an anise-based drink, just like Pernod or most Absinthe (ancestor of Pernod). As I recall, Sambuca is somewhat sweetened, so possibly you could have dispensed with the teaspoon of sugar; but a little extra sugar never hurt anyone. You made a genuine Sazerac, it sounds great.

Gary
Thanks, Gary. I had almost been ashamed of myself. But I really did enjoy the drink.

And last night, I got around to making my first correctly made Manhattan. And I really loved it! It was nothing like any Manhattan I had ever been served in a bar. Those always just taste like bland whiskey with maybe some sugar water added.

I used 1.5 oz WT101, 0.5 oz Martini & Rossi Red Vermouth, a single dash of Angostura, and four ice cubes. It was strong, sweet, full-flavored, and it had a sort of nutty (as in, like nuts) flavor. I could get very interested in these, very quickly. Easy to make and easy to drink. The website I got my recipe from calls the Manhattan "the drinking man's cocktail". I understand what they mean. (I'll try to find the link, again).

Tonight, I think I will try your suggestion and go without the ice.

Tim

barturtle
02-24-2006, 17:36
Just to even calm your conscience a little more(though I think Gary has achieved that already), I have an old cocktail book that uses rye in manhattens and bourbon in sazeracs. Since this has been reversed in recent times, I feel free to use either for my cocktails.

Gillman
02-24-2006, 17:53
Just tonight before dinner I built a Manhattan. I used, instead of one of my complex blends, Rare Breed with a dash of water to lighten the proof. For vermouth I used a combination of Martini red vermouth (not my favorite), Noilly Prat red vermouth (very good), and the winy Dubonnet (kind of a proprietary vermouth, but more "red wine"-tasting than the others); the mix is salutary. Angostura. No ice (I can't drink whiskey with ice any more in any fashion). Two cherries: Maker's Mark brand with Gillmanized blends and, of all things, but it works, legal Irish potcheen added to the jar liquid. Those cherries are rockin'. :)

The result was good but missing something. I realised I am used to the straight rye component that is always a part of my own blends. I added a dash of Lot 40, but it could have been ORVW rye or Michter's straight rye or almost any other decent straight rye; for this purpose, avoid the supernumerary versions. Now we have a Manhattan of the first chop, the middle has filled out, it has that damask-curtain-like savour, it is what it should be.

Gary

ratcheer
02-24-2006, 19:47
I used to always buy Noilly Prat (my dry vermouth is that), but this week the ABC store had only M&R and Gallo. That choice was a no brainer.

It just seems that they are trying to stop carrying everything. A friend of mine at the office said he was pretty sure he bought a bottle of Pernod at the ABC about three months ago.

Tim

ratcheer
02-24-2006, 20:28
Here's that link I promised: http://recipes.epicurean.com/recipe/16080/manhattan-cocktail.html

Not just a recipe, but a nice article on the Manhattan.

Tim

JeffRenner
02-24-2006, 21:14
I think I may have commented here before that it was after my father had died (1993) that I discovered Manhattans, and learned that in his younger years, he had been a fan of them. By the time I was aware of such, he was drinking whiskey only in hi-balls, and then, only when he and my mother hosted bridge club. Actually, I suppose he drank them when he was at the other members' home for bridge club as well.

I wish I had had shared this wonderful concoction with him when he was alive. It continues to be my favorite cocktail - actually, the only one I really enjoy aside from an occasional martini. I prefer them "up," but find that I can pace myself better with them on the rocks. I think it is indeed the king of cocktails.

I like them 2:1 or 3:1 with most any bourbon or rye, with Boissiere my preferred vermouth (my wine merchant's recommendation). A couple of dashes of angostura bitters is mandatory, and I have found that a dash of Cointreau or Grand Marnier is a nice addition, although I don't usually bother.

Before my wife embarked on a successful WeightWatchers program a year and a half ago (2-1/2 stone loss, and kept it off), she would often join me - her preference was for Rebel Yell. I found this wheater too bland, preferring the bite of rye, but I was happy to oblige. Strangely, have not found Rittenhouse BiB to be pleasing. I will have to try again! But I have always found my original love, Jim Beam rye, to be most accommodating.

Now I will have to sign off, as tomorrow morning I am going up to Lansing, MI, for the first (and I suspect, the last) annual Michigan Winter Beer Festival (http://www.michiganbrewersguild.org/festinfo.asp), where I am going to flog American Homebrewers Association memberships. It is supposed to be cold enough to cause anatomical losses to copper and zinc alloy primates!

Jeff

elkdoggydog
02-24-2006, 21:23
Jeff, I agree about JB Rye. It makes a great Manhattan, as well as a great Sazerac. You could pay more, but you don't have to. Just a great whiskey.

Gillman
02-25-2006, 01:31
That article was useful, Tim. And Jeff Renner's recipe is good, too. It seems most of us agree on the basics: good bourbon or rye helps (but a Manhattan flexibly will work with most straight whiskey); 3:1 seems close to ideal since it enhances the whiskey taste and does not hide it; bitters add a tang; and the quality of the vermouth matters. There is an exception to my not using ice, which is for summer cocktails. Even then though I often dispense with it. The touch of orange is something I do too sometimes. I sometimes use orange bitters or mixed orange bitters and Angostura or Peycheaud. An orange zest works too. I never add cherry juice, I think it does not help the mixture but the very little escaping from the cherry itself seems not to hurt. It is a classic drink but as many have said here and as applies to the Sazerac, for the true enthusiast it is one best made at home. One is enough (especially for dieters) and often I don't finish it or my wife does. I like the few initial sips and it is a satiating cocktail although if I don't finish it usually I'll have some beer or wine with dinner.

Gary

brian12069
02-25-2006, 06:03
I ordered a Manhattan at a bar last night. I took a sip and asked the bartender what he made it with and he said Imperial Whiskey. I told him not to ever use that again.

kbuzbee
02-25-2006, 06:39
I sometimes use orange bitters or mixed orange bitters and Angostura or Peycheaud. An orange zest works too. I never add cherry juice, I think it does not help the mixture but the very little escaping from the cherry itself seems not to hurt. It is a classic drink but as many have said here and as applies to the Sazerac, for the true enthusiast it is one best made at home.

My very first Manhattan......WT Rye was the base with Stock Vermouth and Peychaeud bitters. I'll have to try the orange ideas. I did add a dash of the cherry juice last night - I liked the cherry taste coming through, It was a touch sweet but good. A nice change of pace.


One is enough (especially for dieters) and often I don't finish it or my wife does.

You coulda mentioned that sooner! Had two last night. Ouch!:lol:


I wish I had had shared this wonderful concoction with him when he was alive.

I don't know that my father ever really tried Manhattans but it is something I would have enjoyed sharing with him as well.


It continues to be my favorite cocktail - actually, the only one I really enjoy aside from an occasional martini.

I generally do not like cocktails. This one is a keeper.


I prefer them "up," but find that I can pace myself better with them on the rocks.

As mentioned above... Could told me sooner:shocked:

Ken

tlsmothers
02-25-2006, 20:37
Here's my favorite Manhattan recipe:
2 oz Rittenhouse BIB
1/2 oz Vya Sweet Vermouth
1/2 oz Vya Dry Vermouth
Few Healthy Dashes orange bitters (Regan's or Fee, sometimes equal parts)

Stir in cocktail shaker with ice 100 times, pour into chilled glass, garnish with twist of lemon peel. yum

I finish off each shift at the store with a cocktail lesson for employees. I taught them the Sazerac last night using the new young Sazerac rye. It was amazing! I've been on a mission to teach bartenders in the area how to make a good Sazerac. It's working! Just got a bar to put it on their drink menu. I still need to try one with cognac since that was the original ingredient in it, but I find it hard to believe it's gonna beat out my good American whiskey.

CrispyCritter
02-26-2006, 08:38
I've been on a mission to teach bartenders in the area how to make a good Sazerac. It's working! Just got a bar to put it on their drink menu. I still need to try one with cognac since that was the original ingredient in it, but I find it hard to believe it's gonna beat out my good American whiskey. Based on my experience, you'll probably want to use a bit less of the bitters in a cognac-based Sazerac, and it would probably work better with a younger, more aggressive cognac. I usualy use four dashes of Peychaud's in my Sazeracs, but the cognac version really only needed two - the four dashes of bitters almost drowned out the cognac (Pierre Ferrand Reserve) I was using.

ratcheer
02-26-2006, 18:26
Hmmm. How about a cognac Manhattan?

Tim

gr8erdane
02-27-2006, 00:59
And I thought your FAVORITE would have the King Eider vermouth. Guess I have to take it back to the store and trade it for Vya then.......just kidding. Already packed and ready to head to the Sampler!