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View Full Version : Jose Cuervo Black?



brian12069
02-27-2006, 18:52
It's aged in charred oak barrels. Anyone try this Tequila?

Frodo
02-27-2006, 19:16
There's some chatter going on about it on mumpsimous forum (tequila) and it's not good. Tequilas are often aged in oak casks to get some aging benefits. This one is not 100% agave from what those posters have said, and that's usually one indicator of quality

brian12069
02-27-2006, 19:29
There's some chatter going on about it on mumpsimous forum (tequila) and it's not good. Tequilas are often aged in oak casks to get some aging benefits. This one is not 100% agave from what those posters have said, and that's usually one indicator of quality

Agave?...and that's metric for???

brian12069
02-27-2006, 19:33
where is that forum?

barturtle
02-27-2006, 19:38
http://www.ianchadwick.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1232

brian12069
02-27-2006, 19:39
Thanks...DAMN that was FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gr8erdane
02-28-2006, 02:05
Agave is the plant they make tequila from. Good tequila is 100% BLUE agave and Cuervo doesn't fit that description.

Vange
02-28-2006, 06:53
They are trying to use clever marketing and call the JC Black a 100% anejo tequila. That still is not 100% blue agave, so it's just another JC mixto.

I haven't tried it, nor do I pan to. I am pretty sure it won't be very good.

tachyonshuggy
02-28-2006, 08:14
They are trying to use clever marketing and call the JC Black a 100% anejo tequila. That still is not 100% blue agave, so it's just another JC mixto.

I haven't tried it, nor do I pan to. I am pretty sure it won't be very good.

The very fact that we are talking about it is a testament to Cuervo's marketing prowess. Black is a mixto, which is akin to a blended whisk(e)y where 51% is the real deal and 49% is "other." Evangelos is right, they are literally trying to fool us.

It would be like creating a bourbon blend and calling it "straight-ahead bourbon whiskey" or somesuch. Misleading at best. I was no fan of Cuervo before this (except for the Reserva Familia, which is so pricey I have only had it once), and this pretty much does it for me.

Joeluka
02-28-2006, 11:18
For $25.00 a liter it's worlds better that JC Gold. I made a couple of mixed cocktails with it and for the price it was good. Would I enjoy it neat:puke: never!!!!!!!

Vange
02-28-2006, 11:21
It's very sad that bad tequila and horrible hangovers are what JC is bestknown for. It is sad because they also make one of the finest tequilas IMO. The JC Reserva de la Familia is absolutely amazing. I have gone through a few bottles already and am on my 4th. They have been producing a new bottle each year (since 1995) with a decorative box designed/painted by a differnt mexican artist. I know it costs $80, but it's remarkable. If you have the money and like tequila OR want to try a REAL tequila and have some extra cash, give it a try.

Joeluka
02-28-2006, 11:31
It's very sad that bad tequila and horrible hangovers are what JC is bestknown for. It is sad because they also make one of the finest tequilas IMO. The JC Reserva de la Familia is absolutely amazing. I have gone through a few bottles already and am on my 4th. They have been producing a new bottle each year (since 1995) with a decorative box designed/painted by a differnt mexican artist. I know it costs $80, but it's remarkable. If you have the money and like tequila OR want to try a REAL tequila and have some extra cash, give it a try.
If your ok with spending $80-$120 on Tequila I recommend Don Julio 1942 and El Tesero Paradiso as well as the JC Reserva. Both of them are out of this world. If your ok with spending $250 I highly recommend Herraduro Selection Supreme. This is one of the best spirits I've ever had the pleasure to drink, and as a bonus for us Buffalo Trace Fans its distributed by the Sazerac Co.

Vange
02-28-2006, 14:24
https://67.85.199.137/em/tequila.nsf/frmall

thats my inventory
40+ tequilas

and YES i have issues!

CrispyCritter
02-28-2006, 15:20
I'm afraid that Cuervo Gold put me off of tequila - fortunately, it was just a miniature. As for the new Cuervo Black, I've seen it in the whiskey aisle in more than one store, nestled up with the bourbons. A marketing ploy, perhaps?

Frodo
02-28-2006, 21:50
I would guess that Cuervo is trying to compete with Commemorativo, a Sauza product which is a mixto, but aged (an anjeo).

Vange
03-01-2006, 06:06
I think they are targeting this whole "black is in thing". Trying to get people to order JC Black and coke just like JD and coke or rather JC Black on the rocks, like JW Black on the rocks. The Sauza Con I do not see in many bars at all so it may be similar contents, but I think JC is going a different route with this new product of theirs.

BTW, Sauza Con is NOT very good for sipping. It's only acceptable in margaritas or other mixed drinks.

Frodo
03-01-2006, 17:37
I guess it depends on your pocketbook. I like it neat, and the price I find acceptable as opposed to 100% agave tequilas at the LCBO. At $40 for Commemprativo, $50 for Tradicional, $100 for Cabo Wabo Reposado, and $100 for Patron Anjeo at the LCBO, you see why I would be reluctant to buy at higher than $50 (all cdn $).

As a brief aside, I think it's interesting that we're talking about tequila at a bourbon website. Interesting because one of the things I love about Straight Boubon is it's reasonable price point. Bourbon is accesable to almost everyone. Good bourbon is just a shade more expensive. Single malts and tequila on the other hand are much more expensive and will more often give me pause before purchase.

Vange
03-02-2006, 07:33
Most of my tequila discussion I conduct on the mumpsimous forum, but I won't steer away from tequila talk even if it is on a bourbon forum!

If you want, join that the tequila forum. Currently many forum members are on a trip down to Mexico to tour the distilleries. I couldn't go. :( It'll be a slow week on the tequila forum, but when they get back I am sure there will be a lot to talk about.

Frodo
03-03-2006, 09:36
I actually tried to join, but was rejected - I think - due to signing up from a hotmail account. Too bad.

Yes I have seen you on that site Evangelos. I guess what kind of tequila you'd go for depends on your standards. Being an enthusiest, I could see you being willing to spend $$ on tequila. Me, I've got family going on vacation every year, and they always bring back something reasonably priced to enjoy. Usually, I go for 1921 single barrel @ $50 cdn/bottle, but this year I also got Don Julio Blanco and Anjeo. REALLY want to try El Tesoro Anjeo from all the chatter on mumpsimous forum. Got the ET blanco, but haven't cracked it open yet.

Vange
03-03-2006, 11:07
El Tesoro anejo (ETA) is one the great tequilas especially for the price. I get it for $37 USD regularly and it's excellent! Amazing agave notes and it's handmade in the older style rather than with the new sleeker equipment. ET Paradiso is also excellent, but near $100 USD a bottle.

Frodo
03-04-2006, 03:23
El Tesoro anejo (ETA) is one the great tequilas especially for the price. I get it for $37 USD regularly and it's excellent!

I got the El Tesoro Blanco for about $25 cdn (about $22 US) in Puerto Valarta. I wonder if the ETA is as cheap as you quote over there...

Gillman
03-04-2006, 13:13
Before today I've only had tequila about 5 times, 3 times in cocktails and twice neat. The neat ones were expensive brands at the Tasting Tower at LCBO, gold and white of the same maker (I liked the white better it had a cleaner richer taste I thought).

Today I bought 4 Copas Tequila Blanc (100% blue agave) and a tequila-like spirit made in South Africa just released here, Agava Sunrise Silver. The latter is all-blue agave too. Blue agave was introduced for agricultural reasons in a desert area in SA some years ago and later someone thought to make a tequila substitute from it.

The SA one was $30 (CAN) and the Mexican one more than double that. The SA one is 43% abv and triple distilled, the 4 Copas is double-distilled and 40%.

The nose of the SA one is kind of earthy, vegetal, kind of dull really (but then I have almost no experience with tequila). The 4 Copas has a much more interesting nose, rich, winy, complex. But maybe the tastes will be different, I'll have to see. I will taste them later tonight and report back here.

I don't intend to focus much more on tequila but thought I'd buy a decent one (4 Copas is I believe a good quality 100% blue agave) and see how close the South African one got to that. I chose two white ones in order to compare like to like, e.g., there was a darker 4 Copas, probably aged longer, but I thought that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Gary

Gillman
03-04-2006, 16:37
Okay, I've tasted both and am trying to express my feelings about them, which is not easy because I do not know very much at all about tequila.

Assuming it is fair to compare these products (i.e., that they are more or less in the same category which is silver 100% blue agave tequila), the Mexican one to my mind outclasses the South African product by a good margin. The South African one has a taste similar to the nose: somewhat earthy, a little "closed", withal vegetal. The 4 Copas has a strong winy taste and flavor, much like its nose, with earthy tangs but with more complexity than the other product. Of course the Mexican one cost me twice what the South African one did, so perhaps the South African product is more comparable to silver blue agave Mexican products which are closer in price to what I paid for the South African.

I think the one I tasted at the Tasting Tower was Patron both Silver and Gold which were very good and comparable to 4 Copas I thought.

I think, assuming the Agava from South Africa is aiming at the market of, say, a 4 Copas, it has a way to go yet.

I am not sure what I should use the Agava for. I don't think I will enjoy drinking it straight. Maybe I'll mix it with grapefruit juice.

Gary

Frodo
03-04-2006, 19:16
I think the one I tasted at the Tasting Tower was Patron both Silver and Gold which were very good and comparable to 4 Copas I thought.

Gary

Hi Gary:

Hats off for your willingness to try tequila seriously. FYI, the Summerhill store has JC Reserva de la Familia and Corazon Blanco at the tasting tower. Other than this, other tasting towers at the LCBO usually only have Patron.

One small point of clarification - you refered to Patron silver and gold. In the tequila world, "gold" refers to tequila (usually blanco) that has significant caramel thrown in to camaflage substandard tequila. Anjeo refers to tequila that has been aged for at least one year in a cask of less than (is it 220 liters?). Some producers have used the term "gold" interchangably with Reposado or Anjeo, but if they are reputable (ie Herradurra) we know they mean aged without caramel. I think you are refering to Patron Anjeo in your quote.

I'm very impressed that you have outlayed this kind of $$ to find out about tequila! There is some chatter on mumpsimous forum about the South African stuff - not good chatter! I don't think your tastes put you in the minority...

Frodo
03-04-2006, 19:18
I don't intend to focus much more on tequila but thought I'd buy a decent one (4 Copas is I believe a good quality 100% blue agave) and see how close the South African one got to that.

Gary

At the LCBO, tequila prices are very dear - dear enough to be a disincentive for me!

Gillman
03-04-2006, 21:17
Many thanks Frodo for this information. It was Patron Anejo I meant, you are right.

I just thought it would be interesting to try a I drink I know very little about but using my "tasting equipment" as it were and general experience with spirits.

I did find, even at the price, the Agava disappointing. For that money I could have gotten another brand that was good quality even if not 100% blue agave. Say Cuervo Gold, I'd like to try that.

However I learned a lot. And the Mexican one I bought was very good.

Gary

Frodo
03-04-2006, 23:50
I did find, even at the price, the Agava disappointing. For that money I could have gotten another brand that was good quality even if not 100% blue agave. Say Cuervo Gold, I'd like to try that.

Gary

My recomendation for a reasonable tequila at a bargain price is the El Jimador Reposado. At the LCBO it's $32-35 cdn - comparably priced to bottom end Sauza or Cuervo products in Ontario. It is a reposado (aged for at least 2 months) which is a very popular aging catagory in Mexico. Just enough aging to "take the edge off" but not enough to swamp the agave flavour with wood.

El Jimador is a Herradurra product (their bottom end line from a high-end distillery), and on this alone, I'd trust it more than anything from Sauza or Cuervo as these companies are used to making bulk (cheap) tequila. El Jimador is a mixto (51% agave/49% sugar & molasses) but so are anything at a similar price point. All other things being equal, I'd take this over basic Sauza or Cuervo hands down! El Jimador can be found at the Summerhill store (I believe).

Warning about Cuervo gold - it's mostly made for tourists and export. Most mexicans wouldn't bother touching "gold" as it's just substandard tequila masked by caramel.

Frodo
03-04-2006, 23:51
However I learned a lot. And the Mexican one I bought was very good.

Gary

Yeah, I do like 4 copas blanco!

Gillman
03-05-2006, 05:09
Thanks for the recommendations. In time I may try some of those you mentioned. I tried the Agava with grapefruit juice and found its earthiness matched well with that. Probably also it would do well in frozen margaritas. The mixto concept does not put me off because by instinct I am a "blender". In fact if I ever had enough tequilas probably I would blend the Agava (in the glass at least). Considering its cost I feel in retrospect I got a good value, i.e., it is a pure blue agave at (for the category) a reasonable price. On the other hand if I limit myself to the two types I bought, I am thinking maybe a more commercial brand would have been better for me, if not Cuervo Gold than another kind. (I think I am still affected by those Cuervo Gold ads I saw in Rolling Stone magazine years ago :)). I am intrigued when people do what this company in South Africa is doing. In time maybe they will refine the recipe further. E.g., I don't see why a good bourbon-type whiskey can't be made in Canada (at one time it was, and still may be in some distilleries here, for blending). So all in all I was quite pleased with my experiment but I am not sure if I will continue it.

Gillman
03-05-2006, 05:20
Just a further thought prompted by how those mixtos are made. I might try in the glass 50% Agava 50% any white or light amber rum. Because molasses and sugar fermented and distilled is effectively a white rum... This would cut the intensity of the flavour of the Agava and maybe make it easier for me to appreciate. I am sure it appeals uncut to many true enthusiasts but clearly I started with an intense expression of the style and maybe should have gone more commercial when learning about this spirit (although I find the 4 Copas very good, intense too but in a different way).

Gary

Vange
03-05-2006, 08:12
Not many people have tried the Agava spirit from South Africa on the tequila forum (including me), but those that have call it "paint thinner"!

Also, I would recommend not trying the JC Gold. It's a mixto and a bad mixto at that. 4 Copas is a good tequila. I have tried the 4 Copas anejo and liked it, though I can't remember all the details. 4 Copas (B,R, or A) will be 100 times better than JC Gold.

It's good to see some bourbon guys trying some tequilas! Tequila has a very thick resistance barrier that is tough to puncture. People associate it with wild and crazy nights in college, but it also is a very sophisticated spirit with a rich history and culture.

Gillman
03-05-2006, 15:12
I wouldn't say paint thinner, the flavour is of the agave ferment but it is a bit rough, like the odour of a dry dusty desert, where indeed the plants are from.

Here's what I did today with the Agava: I mixed it 50/50 with London Dock white rum, which is 58% abv. That was too strong so I added enough water to bring the mixture to about 40% abv. Now it was tasting much better, the base flavour of the Agava was still there but softened by the rum. I found the drink a little dry so I added a good dash of Cabot Tower, a 57.1% abv Demerara rum. My object was lightly to sweeten the drink. I am trying in effect to make my version of Cuervo Gold (without ever having tasted Cuervo Gold). I like the result, the trademark blue agave taste is there but it is dampened down and softened. It is still not nearly as good as the 4 Copa (which has a complex estery wininess that is impressive) but I like it. The aftertaste in the mouth reminds me of when I used to smoke cigarettes, or say like the aftertaste of Caol Ila malt. Cigarettes and green peppers if that makes any sense. I could add lime to this and maybe a tad sugar syrup and end up with a Mexican-type Dacquiri or French Indies-type petit punch but it's good the way it is. I'll get some Cuervo Gold soon to see how close I came, or Sauza Gold. I want to try these staples, I think the fact that they are big sellers does not argue against their possible merits.

Gary

Gillman
03-05-2006, 15:23
Finally I added half a lime squeezed and topped up a rocks glass with grapefruit juice. Now it's really good. I can see how the Margarita, which this isn't, developed. The green pepper earthiness of the agave marries very well with the sweet/acid of grapefruit and the lime.

As the label on the Agava says, bottoms up, Hombre.

Gary

gr8erdane
03-06-2006, 02:53
I'll get some Cuervo Gold soon to see how close I came, or Sauza Gold. I want to try these staples, I think the fact that they are big sellers does not argue against their possible merits.

Gary, I think there are many reasons why they are big sellers and none have to do with quality. In many stores, Cuervo and Sauza are the premium (for lack of a better term) tequila on the shelves. They are the most highly marketed and competitively priced. Add that Cuervo has been around longer than I can remember any others and they have the brand name recognition among the average consumer. I even remember back in the 70s or 80s there was a song "Jose Cuervo was a friend of mine...." that played constantly on local AM country/western radio stations everywhere I went. It was Cuervo that sponsered the first law of Dane drinking: Dane plus tequila equals public nudity. That visual should be enough by itself to make retailers take Cuervo off their shelves...:slappin:

I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your life or how to live it but real friends don't let their friends buy Cuervo when they can afford the real deal. 100% Blue Agave.

Gillman
03-06-2006, 08:11
Thanks Dane! But I am interested in many beverages and don't always (like the broader market) like highly flavored drinks. I like drinks that have subtlety and balance. This does include straight whiskey of course but there aren't that many that have the balance I like (some that do, Wild Turkey rye, Four Roses Single Barrel, and others of course). That's why I blend my own, both all-straight whiskey blends and blends that use Canadian whisky or other lighteners. Anyway I want to try that C.G. and I'll give an honest opinion of it, but just by reading what a mixto is it makes sense to me to produce the drink in that form, i.e. to get the agave taste but in a more approachable way. Anyway if I think it's not great I'll say so. :)

Gary

Frodo
03-07-2006, 19:20
...Anyway I want to try that C.G. and I'll give an honest opinion of it, but just by reading what a mixto is it makes sense to me to produce the drink in that form, i.e. to get the agave taste but in a more approachable way. Anyway if I think it's not great I'll say so. :)

Gary

I think that mixto tequila was developed to save money on production costs (sugar/molasses being cheeper than agave). This as opposed to being developed for flavour purposes. It is true that blended scotch was developed for palates that couldn't handle the more aggresive flavours of malt whisky back in the day. I don't think mixto was developed for the same reason.

In my experiance, puro tastes more...focused than mixto - not more powerful.

brian12069
03-07-2006, 19:26
I love this thread...it has taken on a life of it's own.

Gillman
03-08-2006, 03:44
Taste notes are coming soon, the bottle is in hand. :)

I don't know the history of mixto but most blending is done both for palate and cost purposes, this explains all the great blended whiskies including our Canadian. With my admittedly very limited experience in tequila, I can see that 100% blue agave can be a very intense taste - 4 Copas to me is like an Islay whiskey except with the agave flavour instead of a strong peat flavour - it is a very pronounced rich taste. Anyway taste notes are coming soon on the Cuervo. I am glad too this thread in an odd kind of way has given me the chance to try some of these noted drinks. But the Cuervo thing I know has its origin in those ads I used to see in Rolling Stone (and it may still advertise the brand, I am not sure). This is a testament to the power of marketing!

Gary

Vange
03-08-2006, 07:51
JC Gold will have a very heavy alcohol and artificial taste to it. I am an avid tequila drinker and I can honestly say JC Gold makes me sick.

If you ever come across El Tesoro I suggest buying it and giving it a try. It is becomingmroe readily available in more and more liquor stores. It's trully a great spirit and is partially responsible for converting me into such a huge tequila fan. Any of the styles will do (Platinum/Reposado/Anejo) Prices vary from $28-$40 per bottle depending on the style. My favorite style is the anejos. Reminds me of bourbon and smsw at times.

Frodo
03-08-2006, 19:06
Unfortunatly, El Tesoro is unavailable at the LCBO at any cost. We have big decrepancies between the expensive ones like Cabo Wabo Rep & Patron ($100+) and Suaza/Cuervo basic & El Jimador Rep. Not much else that's affordable.