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Vange
04-24-2006, 12:50
I was thinking the other day since SW is going to be extinct soon, maybe some members here could compile a list of all SW bourbon available. I am not sure if this list is too long or difficult to compile, but it seems that the SW bourbon topic comes up a lot in discussions here. Just my 2 cents.

Evangelos

Virus_Of_Life
04-24-2006, 13:48
That is a great idea that I had thought about as well.

Probably would be a list of decent length if you were to throw in all the older iterations of Fitz, such as very very old fitzgerald that is most likely never to be found again on a store shelf. But then again you just never know what could be sitting around in some very unexpected locations.

I'd be willing to bet, Evangelos, that someone already has something very close to this, just a matter of if they'll share it?...

Vange
04-24-2006, 13:55
Maybe we try and stick with the available (even if not readily avaialble) SW bourbons so anybody on sb.com can at least get a taste and bunker a few bottles before all of it is gone...........

wadewood
04-24-2006, 14:03
I think the list of current products with SW whiskey is short - Pappy Van Winkle Family Reserve 15, 20, and 23 YO.

TNbourbon
04-24-2006, 15:07
W.L. Weller Special Reserve 7yo (Louisville label)
W.L. Weller Centennial (Bourbon Heritage Collection -- Louisville label)
Old Weller Antique 107 (Louisville label)
Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)
Rebel Yell (pre-c. 1990), 80- or 90-proof
Cabin Still, pre-c. 1992
Old Fitzgerald BIB (and variants -- e.g., , VOF, VVOF, VEOF, et al) from DSP-KY-16
Old Fitzgerald Prime (86 and 80 proofs), pre-c.1996
Old Rip Van Winkle 10/90 and 10/107, Lawrenceburg label
Old Commonwealth 10/107
Delilah's 10/100
Other custom bottlings (Park Avenue Liquors, Woodside Partners, Binny's, et al)
Van Winkle Special Reserve 12yo Lot B (pre-July 2005)
Old Rip Van Winkle 15 (all)
Pappy Van Winkle 15
Twisted Spoke 16
Pappy Van Winkle 20
Pappy Van Winkle 23 (2nd and 3rd issues)
David Nicholson 1843, pre-c.1990
pre-1982 Old Commonwealth decanters, issued by J.P. Van Winkle (Julian's father) & Son (Julian)


Here's a start. I'm sure I've overlooked some early ones, and I'm not sure whether Weller 12 or Old Fitz's 1849 was ever 100% Stitzel-Weller, so others may suggest more.

Virus_Of_Life
04-24-2006, 15:17
Pappy Van Winkle 23 (2nd and 3rd issues)Here's a start. I'm sure I've overlooked some early ones, and I'm not sure whether Weller 12 or Old Fitz's 1849 was ever 100% Stitzel-Weller, so others may suggest more.

THANKS TIM! I somehow knew you'd chime in.

Who did the first release of Pappy 23? I read somewhere else that any green tinted bottles WEREN'T SW, but that post didn't say where they did come from. Bernheim?

TNbourbon
04-24-2006, 15:20
...Who did the first release of Pappy 23? I read somewhere else that any green tinted bottles WEREN'T SW, but that post didn't say where they did come from. Bernheim?

Julian is disinclined to say where that whiskey came from. Some of us have our guesses, but no confirmations. Whatever the provenance, damned good stuff!

ThomasH
04-24-2006, 15:27
For whatever it is worth, I read somewhere that the green tinted bottles of Pappy were from some barrels made at the long closed Old Boone distillery in Meadowlawn,KY. I will dig around and see if I can find the article.

TNbourbon
04-24-2006, 15:33
For whatever it is worth, I read somewhere that the green tinted bottles of Pappy were from some barrels made at the long closed Old Boone distillery in Meadowlawn,KY. I will dig around and see if I can find the article.

Julian himself has offered us at Gazebo gatherings some Boone bourbon in some of his early 14- and 16-yo bottlings, so I think if the 23 were also from there, he'd tell us.

ThomasH
04-24-2006, 15:39
Hello everyone,
I found the article that mentions the whiskey Julian used from the Boone distillery. In Jim Murrays book "Classic Tennessee, Bourbon and Rye whiskey" from 1998, it is on page 184 just below a picture of Will Mcgill, master distiller at S-W just after prohibition. By the way, this picture was mistakenly labeled as one of Pappy Van Winkle. In this article, it says the whiskey was some 20 year old from the Boone distillery. It may very well be that the Pappy 23 isn't from Boone whiskey stock, who knows? It also says that all other whiskey he marketed up until that time was primarily Stitzel Weller stock. I hope this helps!

Thomas

TNbourbon
04-24-2006, 15:46
...It also says that all other whiskey he marketed up until that time was primarily Stitzel Weller stock...

:lol: All and primarily -- I guess Murray covered himself there, didn't he?
Yes, Julian has bottled much Stitzel-Weller. The original, green-bottle Pappy 23 from Lawrenceburg wasn't among it. (By the way, that from Julian's own mouth.) It is a rye-recipe bourbon.

ThomasH
04-24-2006, 16:40
It seems that the people that publish Mr. Murrays books are not very good proof readers. Everyone of his books have contained misspellings and even mispronunciations. In one book, it even called the brand Old Fitzgerald "Old Fitzpatrick". Another funny thing in this book that had the info about the Boone whiskey is the caption about Old Rip Van Winkle 15/107. It says that this brand is the only wheated bourbon sold by IDV to an outside company. It also says that due to a new marketing strategy within the company, the days of this whiskey under this label may be numbered. I guess the Old Rip 15 brand and the current Pappy 15 won out as they are still S-W wheated whiskey. As Tim stated earlier, the 1st issue of Pappy 23 was a rye recipe bourbon, that is what made me wonder if the Boone whiskey was what was used for that bottling as it was also rye recipe bourbon. Oh well, it make for interesting discussion!

Thomas

doubleblank
04-24-2006, 17:12
In answer to some of the questions posted here........

Old Fitz 1849 was originally a SW bottling (I had a bottle from '72)

My recollection of numerous conversations with Julian regarding the provenance of his whiskies are as follows:

When I bought a Van Winkle 17yo made for the Japanese market at the auction, Julian said it was Boone whiskey, the same stuff as his first Pappy 20, only younger (of course).

The first Pappy 23 was not SW or Boone....and Julian isn't inclined to disclose its source.

Many of Julians other early bottlings are SW......the 14yo and 16yo VWFR is SW (and are some of his favorites).

As Tim said, lots of custom bottlings are also SW whiskey and continue to be. The Blue Smoke and the Berghoff bottlings could be added to Tim's list. SB members have bought various botllings of SW too. SW stuff you're likely to find on a shelf are the current Pappys. There is the occasional 15/107 which is SW and the even harder to find 10/107 from Lawrenceburg.

Good luck finding them.

Randy

Gillman
04-24-2006, 18:15
His ORVW 12 and 13 year old ryes may be from Medley, Owensboro.

Medley used to produce Rittenhouse and I suspect the ORVW ryes are Medley Rittenhouse well-aged. Currently Rittenhouse rye is a Heaven Hill product and the oldest available is but 6 years old, so it is hard to compare the Medley and HH versions.

Circa mid-80's Rittenhouse is hard to find; that was Medley but I have never (that I recall) seen a dusty shelf report here (Doug, maybe?).

Gary

BourbonJoe
04-24-2006, 19:49
How about the Weller Antique 107 - Louisville. I thought these were also SW whiskey.
Joe

barturtle
04-24-2006, 19:55
And what about Kentucky Tavern, it used to be a wheater and may have contained SW between 91-96 as it was bought from Glenmore in owensboro and UDV switched it to its wheat recipe then(it was a blended before)

cowdery
04-24-2006, 20:14
And what about Kentucky Tavern, it used to be a wheater and may have contained SW between 91-96 as it was bought from Glenmore in owensboro and UDV switched it to its wheat recipe then(it was a blended before)

Back in the day, certainly while Glenmore existed as an independent entity, pre-1992, Kentucky Tavern was a rye-recipe bourbon, and a good one. After Guinness bought Glenmore and merged it with Schenley (which owned SW at the time) to form UDV, KT went through a lot of iterations, which probably varied by market. It was a wheater, it was "Kentucky Whiskey," it was a blend, etc. At that point, I don't think UDV cared what they put in the KT bottle.

A lot of this discussion has focused on 'dusties,' but so far as products in current distribution are concerned, only the Van Winkle Family Reserve and Pappy bottlings are Stitzel-Weller whiskey.

barturtle
04-24-2006, 20:26
A lot of this discussion has focused on 'dusties,' but so far as products in current distribution are concerned, only the Van Winkle Family Reserve and Pappy bottlings are Stitzel-Weller whiskey

Very true, but many of these can still be found on shelves regularly, and some of them are not too dusty yet. Of course the new BT/HH versions of these products aren't exactly rot-gut, either.

TNbourbon
04-24-2006, 20:35
How about the Weller Antique 107 - Louisville. I thought these were also SW whiskey.
Joe

Absolutely right, Joe -- I've added it to my original list. Thanks.

dougdog
04-25-2006, 12:20
His ORVW 12 and 13 year old ryes may be from Medley, Owensboro.

Medley used to produce Rittenhouse and I suspect the ORVW ryes are Medley Rittenhouse well-aged. Currently Rittenhouse rye is a Heaven Hill product and the oldest available is but 6 years old, so it is hard to compare the Medley and HH versions.

Circa mid-80's Rittenhouse is hard to find; that was Medley but I have never (that I recall) seen a dusty shelf report here (Doug, maybe?).

Gary

Gary,

I've never found a Rittenhouse (medley or HH) on the shelf in California. Doesn't mean they weren't here...Ed ledger gave me an old BIN (Beverage Industry News) book from 1975, I'll check it when I get home tonight and see what was around back then. Maybe Roger or Tim or Christian can comment to their hunting experiences.

Also...Timothy, you mentioned the older version of Rittenhouse is around here and there, if you, or anyone else has or knows where one is, I'd be interested in a bottle of that.

Was there one on the Gazebo table last fall? I don't remember...

Doug

And Thanks everyone for the information on this thread, I've gathered it up and put it on a word doc...Good information on SW for future reference.

boone
04-25-2006, 12:38
The largest market for Rittenhouse Straight Rye is Wisconsin...You will be abe to find Rittenhouse in New York, Iowa, Illinois, South Carolina, North Carolina and Kentucky, to name a few :grin: Although, remember that it's not abundant. Some of these states only get a "few cases" at a time.

Bettye Jo

nor02lei
04-25-2006, 13:26
Twisted Spoke 16



Here's a start. I'm sure I've overlooked some early ones, and I'm not sure whether Weller 12 or Old Fitz's 1849 was ever 100% Stitzel-Weller, so others may suggest more.

Tim,

I believe there are 2 versions of Twisted Spoke. The early is a rye recipe from a for my unknown distillery and the later SW. I got one bottle and I got no idea with version it is.

Leif

dougdog
04-25-2006, 14:11
I looks like Henry Clay (UD rare bourbon collection) was also SW whiskey...thanks to Mike Veach

Check out this link and scroll down to #21

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4476

Hedmans Brorsa
04-26-2006, 04:22
I looks like Henry Clay (UD rare bourbon collection) was also SW whiskey...thanks to Mike Veach

Check out this link and scroll down to #21

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4476

Not to mention I.W. Harper Presidentīs reserve. See #41 in the same thread.

Still available from The Whisky Exchange.

schlep
05-02-2006, 22:09
A bottling of Rittenhouse from 1996 was distilled at DSP 12 (Barton) and bottled at DSP 31 (Heaven Hill). Does anyone know if Barton marketed any of their own rye in the past?

schlep

GoodDrinkin
05-03-2006, 14:27
I have a Weller 19yr old from 2001. Is that SW or BT?

Rancastle
05-03-2006, 14:41
Weller 19 is Stitzel/Weller.

cowdery
05-03-2006, 17:09
Barton bottles its straight rye under the Fleischmann's name. I don't know where it's available. I have never seen it.

The Rittenhouse BIB (which is the best value in an American whiskey) also is available here in Illinois.

Virus_Of_Life
05-05-2006, 17:42
Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)
Old Fitzgerald BIB (and variants -- e.g., , VOF, VVOF, VEOF, et al) from DSP-KY-16Tim, does the early Louisvill label look any different? I came across a place that had 5 or 6 of these that were all Louisville labels. IIRC 1 was BHC and the others were not, or it may have been vice versa. They also had 3 BiB and that was easy enough to identify two of them were SW distilled at DSP-KY-16 :cool: . They also had 1 Old Fitz 1849, anyway to tell if that is SW?

This was a nice little place where I found that 1 ORVW15 L'Burg and a few ORVW10s, but none of those were L'burg...

If there is no way to tell on the VSOF then I am just going to leave them because at $38 a pop I don't want to be buy any that isn't SW.

NorCalBoozer
05-05-2006, 17:49
Tim, does the early Louisvill label look any different? I came across a place that had 5 or 6 of these that were all Louisville labels. IIRC 1 was BHC and the others were not, or it may have been vice versa. They also had 3 BiB and that was easy enough to identify two of them were SW distilled at DSP-KY-16 :cool: . They also had 1 Old Fitz 1849, anyway to tell if that is SW?

This was a nice little place where I found that 1 ORVW15 L'Burg and a few ORVW10s, but none of those were L'burg...

If there is no way to tell on the VSOF then I am just going to leave them because at $38 a pop I don't want to be buy any that isn't SW.

I'm pretty sure I remember Tim saying the the BHC ones were in fact S/W, while the non BHC's it wasn't really clear.

Virus_Of_Life
05-05-2006, 17:56
I'm pretty sure I remember Tim saying the the BHC ones were in fact S/W, while the non BHC's it wasn't really clear.

I don't think it was even that simple.

The non BHC bottles actually appeared to be older, but that may have just been by chance...

NorCalBoozer
05-05-2006, 17:58
I don't think it was even that simple.

The non BHC bottles actually appeared to be older, but that may have just been by chance...

ahhh you are probably right about that. sorry to confuse the issue.

cowdery
05-09-2006, 17:16
All of the brand expressions in the Bourbon Heritage Collection were created for the collection. I believe Weller Centennial (now Buffalo Trace) and Very Special Old Fitzgerald (now Heaven Hill) are the only ones that continued to be made after the "set" was broken up when Diageo sold three of the five brands in it. There are, of course, old bottles of all five "out there," but the main point is that there can't be any non-BHC bottles (of Weller and Fitz) that are older than the BHC bottles.

Virus_Of_Life
05-11-2006, 19:17
There are, of course, old bottles of all five "out there," but the main point is that there can't be any non-BHC bottles (of Weller and Fitz) that are older than the BHC bottles.

Thanks Chuck, those I saw must have just gotten more light to fade the labels and hadn't been dusted as recently...

Nebraska
05-16-2006, 12:23
Some of these, specifically one's like Cabin Still pre-92, are they really worth having anyway? I guess what I'm trying to say is Cabin Still, even though it is from SW stock, is it really going to taste that great, or even good?

Now I'm going to say up front that I have never had a pour of Cabin Still, so I'm talking out of my hat somewhat here.

Mark/Nebraska

NorCalBoozer
05-16-2006, 15:17
Some of these, specifically one's like Cabin Still pre-92, are they really worth having anyway? I guess what I'm trying to say is Cabin Still, even though it is from SW stock, is it really going to taste that great, or even good?

Now I'm going to say up front that I have never had a pour of Cabin Still, so I'm talking out of my hat somewhat here.

Mark/Nebraska

That depends. Those types of SW can be very hit and miss. They are going to probably younger and I'm assuming maybe not the premium barrels. But there are still plenty of good bottle of Cabin Still, Rebel Yell or Old Fitz BIB. And there are bad ones. I tend to stay away from decanters b/c the seals seem to be not as good over time.

I've had pretty good luck with the older SW Old Fitz's BIB.

I think it's still worth getting them if the price is right, because it gives you more taste knowledge and some of them are very good, if you can get them for the shelf price. So what am i saying? If your a bourbon geek, and you find one for a good price you might as well pick it up to give it a shot.

Nebraska
05-16-2006, 17:28
I'm a bourbon geek, but having to make choices. I ran across 4 bottles of Cabin Still, 1 liter, fake tax stamp, upc code, and if you can go by the bottom of the bottle looks like an "89". I bought 1, but really wanted to get home to do some research before considering buying the others, $13.49 for the bottle, before tax.

I am definitely going back, but my wallet is aching already. I picked up 12 ER 101/10, OW Antique 107 and WT RR 101. I'm going back for a WT12 that I left and am thinking I may as well get the other Cabin Stills while I am there.

If nothing else, would the Cabin Still make a good base for an attempt at casking?


Mark/Nebraska

NorCalBoozer
05-16-2006, 18:00
yeah, if you have the opportunity to try one of the Cabin Stills first, thats what I would do, then you would know wether you want the other 3.

Im sure it would be good for casking, Dougdog or Gillman know more about that than I do. I know Doug has a vatting that is a mixture of quite a few old bourbons and it taste very good.

right know i have a barrel that is all WT Rye. I haven't tried mixing stuff together yet , but it seems the results can be very good.

sounds like some good finds there!

Nebraska
05-16-2006, 18:58
I popped open the Cabin Still and considered writing some tasting notes. The tasting notes were going to begin with I got a STRONG aroma of Curry/anise, a VERY pleasing aroma...I'm thinking wow this is great!

Just then my wife walked by and asked what I was doing and I remarked how wonderful the nose was on this bourbon. As she was walking away she said, "you do realize 20 minutes ago you added curry powder to the chicken on the stove and I saw you wipe what was spilled off with your hand".

Humm...

Mark/Nebraska

gr8erdane
05-16-2006, 21:57
I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)

NorCalBoozer
05-16-2006, 22:14
I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)

yeah I prefer to stick to bottles if I can. I've had a few bad corks on some old bottles but the bourbon was still great as well. Most of the old stuff I've bought and tasted has been well worth it.

Sijan
06-24-2006, 01:17
[LIST]
Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)


Following up on a question from a month or two ago - is there a way to distinguish an "early" Louisville label from a "later" Louisville label? I have two bottles of VSOF12 that appear identical - both have Louisville labels ("Distilled, aged and bottle by Old Fitzgerald Distillery, Inc. / Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky") and BHC seals.

UPC for both is 880076 22640

In very small font on the bottom right corner of the front label, there is a code: SL 16.905.01.00

On the back label, there is a similar code in very small font in the bottom left corner: SL 27.905.01.00

On the bottle, below the back label there is a code in grey font: HMO21971.
The 2 is offset a bit lower than the other figures so that it appears as HMO/2/1971. I'm not sure if the O is the letter O or a zero.


So, do these bottles contain Stitzel-Weller whiskey?

Thanks,
Dan

TimmyBoston
06-24-2006, 03:38
Where are the current incarnations of Pappy 15 and 20 from? From SW or another distillery? If they are from somewhere else is there a way to tell where my bottle(s) from?
And if they are from SW why are the newer 23's from somewhere else?

Thanks all.

Sijan
06-24-2006, 04:35
Tim,

The current Pappy 15 & 20 are S-W whiskey.

What do you mean when you say Pappy 23 is from somewhere else? It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock.

Cheers,
Dan

Barrel_Proof
06-24-2006, 07:25
Lest there be any confusion, some of the bourbon bottled as VanWinkle has -- from at least as early as the green glass Pappys -- included whiskey not distilled by S-W. Today, as well, the product line includes non-S-W bourbon.

It's also a myth that all VanWinkles have been wheaters. I recommend to all the healthy use of the search function on this site. The histories of the various VanWinkle bottlings have been discussed ad nauseum here in the past.

Sijan
06-24-2006, 10:29
A bit of reading comprehension is in order. The abbreviated version of my quote above is taken out of context and interpreted incorrectly because of the use of the ellipses. The clause in between the dashes comes after "bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort" and not "from S-W stock," thereby incorporating the former but not the latter. Thus, "all" referred to all recent Van Winkle bourbons being bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort, not necessarily all being S-W whiskey.

I'm well aware that the first batch of Pappy 23 was not S-W whiskey or even wheated whiskey. In addition, my understanding is that the more recent ORVW 10 yrs are not S-W, and that the Lot B is no longer being produced from S-W, as of July 2005. If other VW bourbons are not S-W, please let us know.

In response to Tim's question about "the newer 23s", I stated that the most it is made from S-W stock. Is this not correct? Is the current batch of Pappy 23 not entirely made up of S-W bourbon??

bluesbassdad
06-24-2006, 13:00
It could also be that a bit of consideration for the reader is in order. I took two runs at your latest post and gave up before I achieved, as you say, comprehension.

I'm reasonably familiar with words such as "ellipses", "clause", etc., so my difficulty does not arise there. Perhaps it's the word "above", which failed to help me find "the abbreviated . . .", that is the root of the problem. A peripheral factor may be my use of the hybrid mode when viewing posts. Perhaps "above" has more significance in other modes, but at this point I'm too tired to experiment.

Could it be that near-record high temperatures (which caused my wife to cancel our plans to attend an outdoor bluegrass festival in Prescott) here in central Arizona are eroding my legendary tolerance and good will? :grin: I won't rule it out.

Yours truly,
Dave " 'Communicate' is a Transitive Verb" Morefield

Sijan
06-24-2006, 16:46
I think it probably didn't make much sense when you read it because the post I referred to had been edited, and thus no longer contains the misquote to which I was responding.

Regardless, it's a grammatical rule that's difficult to explain, and I don't even know the right grammatical terms to do so.

This sentence, from my previous post (#44 in this thread), was the one in question:
"It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock."

This quote had been incorrectly reduced to "all...from S-W stock."

I was simply explaining why that sentence should not be interpreted (because of grammar rules) as meaning that all Van Winkle bourbons were from S-W stock, but rather that all Van Winkle bourbons have been bottled in Frankfort for several years now.

cowdery
06-24-2006, 19:48
These things seem to get more complicated than they need to be. Virtually every drop of whiskey made at Stitzel-Weller was wheated bourbon. There is some reason to believe there may have been some rye-recipe bourbon produced there, but it was a drop in the barrel. Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred, if it was made at Stitzel-Weller it was wheated bourbon.

Likewise, virtually every bourbon that has been sold under the Van Winkle name, whether "Old Rip," "Family Reserve," or "Pappy" has been wheat-recipe and all of it, until recently, has been from the Shively distillery we refer to here as Stitzel-Weller.

There was at least one, possibly more than one, instance of a Pappy Van Winkle product that was not wheated and not produced at Stitzel-Weller but, again, a drop in the barrel.

Finally, a few years ago, as the supply of Stitzel-Weller whiskey became depleted, Julian Van Winkle threw in with Buffalo Trace and moved his operation there. Currently, his source for wheated bourbon is the Bernheim Distillery now owned by Heaven Hill. Buffalo Trace has been producing wheated bourbon as well and as their stocks mature, it will be Buffalo Trace product in the bottles instead of Bernheim.

When it first became necessary to use non-Stitzel (i.e., Bernheim) whiskey in a regular Van Winkle product, Julian conveniently converted the Old Rip Van Winkle 15-year-old into a Pappy Van Winkle. From that point forward, the "Old Rip" (limited then to the 10-year-old) brand would be Bernheim wheated bourbon and the Pappy would all remain Stitzel.

What is confusing and can't really be helped, is that there is old stock "out there" in the marketplace, and there are various rules and tricks for determining where it was made, but they are not necessarily foolproof.

You have a couple of assurances, however:

1. Julian Van Winkle don't sell no crap. If it says, "Van Winkle," it's got to be good.

2. No Old Rip 15-year-old was made with non-Stitzel whiskey. If you find an Old Rip 15-year-old, it's Stitzel Weller.

Sijan
06-26-2006, 22:41
I'm curious as to what extent the W.L. Weller 12 year old was ever made from S-W whiskey? Any way to distinguish current Weller 12 from the S-W batches, if there were any.

Thanks in advance for your answer(s).

jeff
06-27-2006, 06:02
I'm curious as to what extent the W.L. Weller 12 year old was ever made from S-W whiskey? Any way to distinguish current Weller 12 from the S-W batches, if there were any.

Thanks in advance for your answer(s).

I'm not sure when Weller 12 changed but I believe Ken Weber has stated semi-recently that there is still some S-W in the current bottling. Probably not much though and that might have changed with the new design.

chasking
06-27-2006, 08:27
If anyone can get there, The Northender liquor store in Springfield, Illinois, as of about a week ago had a bunch of bottles of David Nicholson 1843 on the shelf. This is a 7-year-old BIB from DSP-KY-16. They're selling it for under $15 a bottle.

Sijan
07-01-2006, 01:40
Would still like to find out how to tell an "early" Lousiville bottle of VSOF12 from a "later" bottle of VSOF12

See http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=63522&postcount=42

cowdery
07-01-2006, 16:27
Based on the information provided in the previous post, in particular the presence of the BHC collar, both would appear to be "early." I suppose you want to know which would be earlier, and there I can't help you. However, in the other post you asked if they are SW and I have to believe both are.

Sijan
07-01-2006, 16:45
Thanks for your answer. I don't care which one is earlier - they're identical as far as I can tell. I don't even know which one is which now. But glad to hear they're likely S-W whiskey.

Big Chipper
07-01-2006, 17:07
I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)I just finished a 1969 hillbilly decanter that I got off of eBay for $4.99. It was truly a wonderful drink. If that was a six year old SW, then I can't imagine how good an old stock 10 or 12 year old would be. It ended up near the top of all bourbons I've had the pleasure of tasting. Pronounced alchohol in the nose...vanilla and spice...and a lonnnngggg finish. Beautiful!

tmas
07-02-2006, 09:09
Just curious, in the later bottlings of Antique 107 that don't show Louisville, Kentucky as their origin, what distillery does that bourbon come from? Thanks, Tom V
Hey, by the way, what happened to all those fun icons? 'Am I just missing how to access them? They were fun.

BourbonJoe
07-02-2006, 10:17
Just curious, in the later bottlings of Antique 107 that don't show Louisville, Kentucky as their origin, what distillery does that bourbon come from? Thanks, Tom V


Buffalo Trace in Frankfort.

fussychicken
03-16-2007, 20:51
W.L. Weller Special Reserve 7yo (Louisville label)
Old Weller Antique 107 (Louisville label)

I just found some Weller Special Reserve from what appears to be a 1994 bottling w/Lousiville label so I did a little digging and am now a little unsure of the above listing for the two Wellers.


Ken Weber said the following in this post: (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=43640&postcount=21)


Just because the label says it is produced in Louisville, you still need to consider a few things. The Buffalo Trace Distillery distilled and aged some wheated whiskey for UD for nearly a decade before we actually bought the brand. Even after we purchased the brand, we continued using the former labels (with the Louisville address) because we had so many and the BATF gave us permission to use them up.While early/mid 90's Weller is probably SW, late 90's Weller might not be even if it has the Louisville label. Is my analysis right in that late 90's Weller could be old SW, BT that was distilled for UDV, OR some of the first Bernheim?

Ken do you know what year BT starting making this wheated whiskey for UDV? Did you guys get any of the aging Bernheim stock when purchasing the Weller name? (If you are allowed to say of course :))

TomH
03-17-2007, 10:54
Since this this is an older thread that has just been brought back to life, it should be noted that the postings relating to all Pappy 15 being S-W were true when written. However, according to Julian, there have been some bottles released recently that are not S-W.

Tom

tango-papa
03-17-2007, 11:31
Since this this is an older thread that has just been brought back to life, it should be noted that the postings relating to all Pappy 15 being S-W were true when written. However, according to Julian, there have been some bottles released recently that are not S-W.

Tom

Tom,

Can you add info to this?
Any way to tell when and which bottlings?
I'm just about to make a purchase of six bottles of Pappa 15 and will hold off now - at least until I can be sure that what I will be purchasing is in fact SW whisky.

~tp

TomH
03-17-2007, 13:50
Really not much to add to this. When Julian was in town for a tasting at a local store we talking about the Pappy 15 and how much longer it would be produced. He said that they had released a small amount of Pappy 15 recently with BT product. When I asked if there was any way to identify them he said no.

As someone else previously said in the thread, Julian does not put out bad bourbon, so I really wouldn't worry too much. If you are planning on buying several bottles, buy one and try it. It would be a pretty good assumption that all bottles sitting on a shelf should be the same, so if you like it buy some more.

Tom

tango-papa
03-17-2007, 16:10
Really not much to add to this. When Julian was in town for a tasting at a local store we talking about the Pappy 15 and how much longer it would be produced. He said that they had released a small amount of Pappy 15 recently with BT product. When I asked if there was any way to identify them he said no.

As someone else previously said in the thread, Julian does not put out bad bourbon, so I really wouldn't worry too much. If you are planning on buying several bottles, buy one and try it. It would be a pretty good assumption that all bottles sitting on a shelf should be the same, so if you like it buy some more.

Tom

Thanks - my primary 'bourbon' focus right now is all things SW, so unless I know these 15's are, in fact SW, I won't be purchasing them.

Maybe Julian will see this post and advise when the Non-15's were released.

~tp

Joeluka
03-18-2007, 07:03
Thanks - my primary 'bourbon' focus right now is all things SW, so unless I know these 15's are, in fact SW, I won't be purchasing them.

Maybe Julian will see this post and advise when the Non-15's were released.

~tp

You know he's in the business of SELLING Pappy 15's. If he thinks the bourbon is good enough to carry HIS name, then why would he help you to not buy his product. IMHO, I don't think Julian will be much help to you. I'm also betting that the non-S/W Pappy 15's are just as good as the other ones. Julian is gifted at picking out GREAT whiskey. Maybe you should trust him. Most SB.com members do.

robbyvirus
03-18-2007, 11:43
Just picked up these dusty shelf bottles last week...Two Cabin Still bottles, both tax-stamped, no barcode, from Louisville. I assume these are SW whiskey? I sampled one of them, and it's pretty tasty...the flavor doesn't linger around very long, but definitely better than today's "bottom shelf" brands.

gothbat
03-18-2007, 13:53
Before last night I had 1 open PVW15 and 2 sealed ones, now I just have 2 sealed. They were all purchased while I was under the impression that all PVW15 was 100% SW and the quantity I purchased was heavily influenced by this fact. Since then I’ve learned that they may not be SW and was a bit disappointed; I am a pessimist so I am just going to assume that all of the ones I have are not the SW ones since there is no way to know for sure really. Having said that the one that the one I finished last night tasted just as good as any other PVW15 I’ve had in the past and the disappointment I mentioned above faded shortly after it began once I began thinking about the bottles as 2 really good bottles for later rather than 2 possible SW bottles for later. I can see trying to bunker SW stuff but for this brand it seems pointless seeing as how all the bottles and their contents are pretty much identical anyway.

boone
03-18-2007, 14:12
Hi Rob :grin: :grin:

Check the bottom of the bottle for a date...

What a coninsidence :grin: :grin: :grin: I found these five liter's yesterday in Eastern Kentucky...

Bettye Jo




Just picked up these dusty shelf bottles last week...Two Cabin Still bottles, both tax-stamped, no barcode, from Louisville. I assume these are SW whiskey? I sampled one of them, and it's pretty tasty...the flavor doesn't linger around very long, but definitely better than today's "bottom shelf" brands.

Barrel_Proof
03-18-2007, 21:48
What a pretty sight, indeed, Bettye Jo! Just look at the color in those faux tax stamped Cabin Stills!

tango-papa
03-18-2007, 21:57
You know he's in the business of SELLING Pappy 15's. If he thinks the bourbon is good enough to carry HIS name, then why would he help you to not buy his product. IMHO, I don't think Julian will be much help to you. I'm also betting that the non-S/W Pappy 15's are just as good as the other ones. Julian is gifted at picking out GREAT whiskey. Maybe you should trust him. Most SB.com members do.

Wow, that was really helpful - thanks...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

robbyvirus
03-18-2007, 23:37
Hi Rob :grin: :grin:

Check the bottom of the bottle for a date...

Bettye Jo

I looked at the bottom of the bottles, and all it says is "Liquor Bottle", and then there's a circle with the number 81 in it...is that the date, maybe 1981??

Hedmans Brorsa
03-19-2007, 04:06
Wow, that was really helpful - thanks...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

T-P,

You have just committed the gruesome sin of assuming that the consumer has any rights at all.

You couldnīt be more wrong. On this forum (according to some), the customer is always wrong.

In the future, make sure that your wishes and desires concide with those of the businessman and all shall be well. ;)

P.S good luck with hunting your S-W whiskies. It should be worth the while.

Joeluka
03-19-2007, 06:14
T-P,

You have just committed the gruesome sin of assuming that the consumer has any rights at all.

You couldn't´t be more wrong. On this forum (according to some), the customer is always wrong.

In the future, make sure that your wishes and desires coincide with those of the businessman and all shall be well. ;)

P.S good luck with hunting your S-W whiskies. It should be worth the while.

So I'm wrong?? :skep: :skep: :skep: You don't think Julian is good at picking whiskey?? Which brands do you prefer??? I guess I'm just a mark for all things Pappy. I haven't had a bad bottle of ORVW 10/90 & 10/107 and VWSR 12 since it stopped being S-W bourbon. I just assumed JVW was picking great bourbon for it. Now if you don't like it anymore, I can understand why you would demand JVW to tell you which bottle's would be no good for your purchase.

Joeluka
03-19-2007, 06:30
Wow, that was really helpful - thanks...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


So your going to spend the money or just go without Pappy 15 for the rest of your life???

tango-papa
03-19-2007, 08:28
T-P,

You have just committed the gruesome sin of assuming that the consumer has any rights at all.

You couldn´t be more wrong. On this forum (according to some), the customer is always wrong.

In the future, make sure that your wishes and desires concide with those of the businessman and all shall be well. ;)

P.S good luck with hunting your S-W whiskies. It should be worth the while.

Thanks, I do enjoy the hunting...

And they heard him as he wandered into all the dusty old liquor stores...
"Here Stitzel, Stitzel, Stitzel... come to papa..."

tango-papa
03-19-2007, 08:31
So I'm wrong?? :skep: :skep: :skep: You don't think Julian is good at picking whiskey?? Which brands do you prefer??? I guess I'm just a mark for all things Pappy. I haven't had a bad bottle of ORVW 10/90 & 10/107 and VWSR 12 since it stopped being S-W bourbon. I just assumed JVW was picking great bourbon for it. Now if you don't like it anymore, I can understand why you would demand JVW to tell you which bottle's would be no good for your purchase.

Clearly, he was not saying anything about Julian Van Winkle or his skills at picking good whiskey.
Clearly he was poking fun at the "business" side of the whiskey trade.
Clearly you did not see the humor in his posting.
I am currently working my way through a bottle of VWSR 12 and it's fantastic!
I know it's not SW whiskey (Bernheim?), and that's fine with me.
Nobody was demanding anything.

tango-papa
03-19-2007, 08:34
So your going to spend the money or just go without Pappy 15 for the rest of your life???

Well, I'm not going to purchase 'those' six bottles unless and until I know if they are in fact SW.
Again, as I said earlier, my question was about SW whiskey as that is my FOCUS regarding collecting/bunkering right now.

Going without PVW15 for the rest of my life? Are you mad... :cool: ?

Hedmans Brorsa
03-19-2007, 12:25
So I'm wrong?? :skep: :skep: :skep: You don't think Julian is good at picking whiskey??

Joe,

As T-P already has pointed out, I wasnīt out for Julianīs blood. I have several of his bottlngs at home. In fact, one of the two best whiskies Iīve ever had comes from his stable.

I just felt that no one should be made to feel bad about desiring a whiskey from a specific distillery. The fact that Julian has released bottle after bottle of excellent to world-class bourbon from this distillery, has inevitably created a suss about products from S-W.

The fact that S-W whiskey is growing scarcer by the minute is of course no oneīs fault (except maybe Diageoīs).

nor02lei
03-19-2007, 12:44
So I'm wrong?? :skep: :skep: :skep: You don't think Julian is good at picking whiskey?? Which brands do you prefer??? I guess I'm just a mark for all things Pappy. I haven't had a bad bottle of ORVW 10/90 & 10/107 and VWSR 12 since it stopped being S-W bourbon. I just assumed JVW was picking great bourbon for it. Now if you don't like it anymore, I can understand why you would demand JVW to tell you which bottle's would be no good for your purchase.

I have been a member here for 2 years and I cant recall reading that anyone have said that Julian van Winkle picks bad barrels for his whiskey. At least for me this issue is about the labelling and the desire some members have to now what they drink. And good bourbon don’t necessary mean the same taste to me. For instance I do love both the SW and the Bernheim 10 years 107 but I don’t think they taste the same. I will be glad to bay the new 15 years pappy with BT bourbon if it is good but I want to now it is BT bourbon.

Leif

cowdery
03-19-2007, 16:37
Tango-Papa,

The likelihood is very high that any Pappy you find is SW. If some non-SW whiskey was included in a recent Pappy 15 bottling, it most likely was mixed with SW which could be a very good thing. Some of the SW that's still in barrels is a bit overaged and some younger (though still >15) BT wheater might be just what it needs. All things considered, and knowing Julian's standards, if you want SW whiskey and have the chance and resources to buy some Pappy 15, you really should. There are few certainties in this world, but were I in your shoes, I would like my odds.

Big Chipper
03-19-2007, 20:50
No one mentioned William Larue Weller...thought it was SW too.

fussychicken
03-19-2007, 22:47
No one mentioned William Larue Weller...thought it was SW too.

The old W.L. Weller 19 was/is. The 2005 Weller wasn't (distilled in fall 93), and the 2006 Weller probably wasn't either. While the 2006 Weller was distilled in spring 91, and theoretically could be SW, the info sheet reads identical to the 2005 Weller sheet which would lead me to think it is BT. (All this info coming from the fact sheets so graciously posted on this board!)

fussychicken
03-25-2007, 11:34
Pappy Van Winkle 20
Pappy Van Winkle 23 (2nd and 3rd issues)


While this is probably common knowledge to most of you guys, I just wanted to make this small correction to this "master" thread.

In addition to the Pappy 23, the earlier bottlings of the Pappy 20 apparently were not SW either. According to Julian himself, (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37732&postcount=10) the earlier green tinted bottles of Pappy 20 are not SW. I could not find any info as what is inside the green tint bottles. Also as mentioned in Julian's post, just because the label says Lawrenceburg doesn't mean it is SW for Pappy 20.

In either case, the chances of finding a green tint Pappy 20 are probably slim to none these days!

TNbourbon
03-25-2007, 12:07
...I could not find any info as what is inside the green tint bottles...

In the early Pappy 20s, rye-recipe bourbon from Boone Bros. Distillery in S. Jefferson County, according to Julian.