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jkiiha
07-26-2001, 17:07
What's the consensus on this stuff? This is the first rye whiskey I have ever tried and I really like it. A bit warm on the finish, perhaps, but the spice of the rye really comes through. At $11.99/fifth, I'm surprised that it isn't more popular.

rwilps
07-26-2001, 17:30
Personally, coming from Western PA with coal miner blood, I find OO to be a little too creamy and smooth - I think the problem is the low proof. A 100 proof version with a bit more oak from aging would be an impressive whiskey, for sure. Rye can be very complex, and I find it retains "flavor layers" and gives itself up in a time sequence more than a corn-heavy bourbon does. Try the Van Winkle and Sazerac ryes to discover this, or the "Classic Cask" rye - all old and expensive. Jim Beam rye gives more of the raw rye hit than OO, but still lacks strength. Just for fun, compare Old Grandad BIB to all of them - it holds its rye note very well. Finally, if you ever come across a bottle of Sam Thompson rye, call me IMMEDIATELY. It is dangerous for you to drink, and should be sent to me at once for safekeeping.

Ralph Wilps

Speedy_John
07-27-2001, 07:02
I second Ralph's recommendation of the Sazerac. At about $40 a bottle, it's worth every penny. It's one of the few whisk(e)ys I buy without hesitation any time I see it on a store shelf, not just because it's a rare find, but also because it's so damn good. Does anyone know if Buffalo Trace will be releasing a new batch?

SJ

cowdery
07-27-2001, 10:03
Old Overholt (aka Old Overcoat) was the "last man standing" of the classic ryes. Today it is made by Jim Beam and may simply be the Jim Beam Rye with a little more age on it.

Another rye in the popular price segment is Wild Turkey Rye, which has the advantage of being 101 proof, allowing more of the flavor to come through. Heaven Hill makes some inexpensive ryes too, under the Rittenhouse name and others.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A>

kitzg
07-30-2001, 11:34
To muddy the rather limited "consensus" or opinions, I find Old Overholt to be a good product. Of course it is not the same as VanWinkle which I like or Sazerac which I've not tried but it is a very drinkable whiskey. I am glad that there is still an 'affordable' entry in the rye category.

Greg

broray
07-31-2001, 16:05
I have a bottle of the old overholt I have been working on some time. The fact I have had it some time says how I like it. In my humble opinion it seems to be lacking in alcohol and is a bit weak in the knees. I much pefer the Wild Turkey and have polished off one and started another bottle. I have tried the the Van Winkles and give them high marks. The Jim Beam is only worth buying once. I am presently applying for a loan so that I can try the Sazerac. Anyway it is all worth trying and I am having fun and that is all that matters. Enjoy,enjoy enjoy!

The Man from Missouri

MashBill
07-31-2001, 20:02
Amen Ray! The Old Overholt I've tried is okay, but I much prefer Wild Turkey. The Jim Beam .... well it's typical Jim Beam, enough said.

Are you coming to the Bourbon Festival? If so, I'll bring some Sazerac for you to try. It is very good, but I still think the Van Winkle ryes come very close for a fraction of the price.

Bill
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/>http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/</A>

Ken Weber
08-10-2001, 09:37
In response to your question about a new batch of 18 year old Sazerac Rye, I can say that we will be producing another 300 cases in mid to late September. The price will stay the same, between $34.99 and $39.99 at retail. Since demand outstips supply, some retailers may take advantage and increase the price.

Last year's vintage is completely sold out, however, for those attending the Buffalo Trace gathering during Bourbon Festival will get to sample from my private stash.

Ken

kitzg
08-10-2001, 13:14
Ken, Now I am even MORE sorry that I cannot get down for the private tasting.

SpeedyJohn
08-11-2001, 08:03
Thanks for the info, Ken. It's great to know we haven't seen the last of this outstanding whisky. I only wish you didn't produce it in such limited quantities--you can't have too much of such a good thing ;-)

How many of those 300 cases are earmarked for Pennsylvania?

Thanks,
SJ

Ken Weber
08-13-2001, 06:39
SJ,
I hate to admit it, but PA has been allocated 4 cases of Sazerac 18, however, since you know the brand manager, I am sure he can help you to procure some.

Ken

bluesbassdad
08-03-2002, 17:55
Greg,

How do you drink this stuff? Wait... That didn't come out right. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

What I mean to say is, what manner of drinking shows it in its best light? Do you prefer it neat, on the rocks, or mixed in a cocktail?

I have a bottle that will last a very long time if I drink it only neat.

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

Gillman
09-15-2002, 19:15
It is my perception that the current Overholt's is not as rich-tasting as five to ten years ago. Maybe it was longer aged then.

Still a classic straight whiskey - and good value.

Bob
09-16-2002, 10:58
I think it's a pretty good rye, especially for the price. I've also tried Wild Turkey and Jim Beam Ryes, which I think are also pretty good, and they are also inexpensive.

Bob

**DONOTDELETE**
09-16-2002, 11:23
OK VatWood, Jay hasn't been around since last summer. To me Old Overholt is a standard straight rye whiskey. Not bad, but not too good either. It tends to reinforce the notion that rye is; thin, hot, and harsh. I like Wild Turkey rye at the lower price point, and 'The Saz' 18 year old at the upper end of things. Grab a bottle of Julian's rye if you can find it and avoid Fritz Maytag's 'Old Potato' like the plague =&gt; It's $100 rot gut. Old Overholt at $11 a bottle is a far better rye. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Gillman
09-16-2002, 12:06
Well, on the higher end, I like Old Tyme Rye of Van Winkle. A very fine drink, although more "Bourbon-like" than rye- like.

Haven't had the 13 year old Reserve yet.

Also, when it was available, I liked the Hirsch 13 year old, which was pretty darn good.

People were asking about the "rye bread" taste of rye whiskey before the Second War. That Hirsch had it; the Overholt might too if aged to 8-12 years.

**DONOTDELETE**
09-16-2002, 13:43
Ah-Ha cypress! I see you know more than you've let on. I've not had the Hirsch rye, but 'The Saz' has a hint of the rye bread flavor although it is very subtile. Will we be seeing you at the Bourbon Festival this week?

Bob
09-16-2002, 18:11
Linn,

I'm not familiar with "The Saz". What is it?

Bob

bobbyc
09-16-2002, 19:14
Not Linn but allow me to interject. Saz is Sazerac which is one of 3 or 4 high end whiskies introduced by Buffalo Trace a year or so ago. 18 YO and about 39.99 in Kentucky. also they included a 19 YO
W L Weller and 17 YO Eagle Rare, since then they have came out with a single barrel Eagle Rare , These are all bottled in very tall slender bottles that resemble wine bottles all the Info is painted on each bottle very distinctive and classy. Hopefully the new George T Stagg will share the same bottle , they would look impressive to anyone all lined up in a row. For now at least one really has to tip their hat to Buffalo Trace , With their new association with J VanWinkle and the new products they are developing, they are at the forefront in Bourbon . At least in my eye at the present time. I believe the Saz isn't too plentiful because I saw referrence that Ken Weber might Use some of his own stash for thee tour Thursday. Might want to grab a bottle if possible. If you come to Bourbon Fest not a problem . You may consider Mail order.

Speedy_John
09-17-2002, 05:35
Linn: What version of Old Potrero have you tried? I have a bottle of the Single Malt Straight Rye bottled last year. It had aged about 4 years, 10 months in cask. Bottled at about 62%. I thought it was very, very good, even at such a "young" age. Spicy, moouth-filling flavors, surprisingly full-bodied for a youngster with a lingering, delicious finish. I don't have the bottle here, so I can't give you the "essay number." Yes, $100 is a lot for a bottle. But, it is rare (only 500 bottles or so were made), unique (name another single malt straight rye on the market) and quite good (IMHO). I can't wait to taste what Maytag bottles in another five or six years.

SpeedyJohn

**DONOTDELETE**
09-17-2002, 07:08
Speedy I only got a single taste of this stuff at a party last year. All I know is that it was extreamly young; hot and harsh with the nastiest finish I have ever run across. I had to gargle with Wild Turkey in order to get the taste out of my mouth! Why don't you bring your bottle with you to the bourbon festival and I'll give it another try.

rwilps
09-17-2002, 08:32
Remember, guys, Maytag put out two versions of his rye - a more mainstream version in charred oak barrels and a "George Washington replica" version in "toasted oak" barrels. These barrels were only lightly steamed to aid in stave-bending and were basically raw wood, supposedly duplicating early rye products. I tasted them both, and as far as I'm concerned, the toasted oak version tasted like something you'd use with a lit rag in the barrel neck to stop a tank in a street fight. Maybe poor Fritz happened on an old Whiskey Rebellion Molotov recipe (or receipt, as they used to spell it).

Ralph Wilps

Speedy_John
09-17-2002, 10:09
Spot on, Ralph.

Linn--Do you remember the color of the Old Potrero you tried? The version I have is very dark. If what you had was light in color, then it WAS rot gut. The older OP gets, the better it gets. Trust me. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif I would love to have you sample the version of OP I have, but, unfortunately, I will not be at the festival. Work and family matters prevent me from coming http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif All I would ask is that if you get a chance to try the Single Malt Rye charred oak bottling from 2001, don't pass it up.

SJ

**DONOTDELETE**
09-17-2002, 10:13
You are most likely correct, Ralph, that what I got a taste of was 'tank burner #2'. I've tasted some unaged straight rye whiskey made by some of our better local 'family distillers' that tasted much much better than the 'Old PoleCat' that Fritz has the nerve to put out on the market and charge a King's ransome for. Don't buy it. It sucks. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
09-17-2002, 10:18
OK Speedy I'll take your word for it. Bring a bottle to next years Bourbon Festival, and I'll give her a go. If I don't like it you have to buy me a bottle of Van Winkel rye! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Speedy_John
09-17-2002, 11:21
Wajja thing I iz, stoo-pud? Hell, yooz kud lik dat Ol-Po-Trair-Oh rite nuf, an jus sez yooz dont, jus ti git a boddel o dat dare Van Winkle. Ha! Kant foolz me ya ol pollkat.

SpeedyJohn

**DONOTDELETE**
09-17-2002, 13:01
Shooooooo Wheeeeeeeeee Doggies!!! Speedy just brought your yankee ass on down south. I promise not to kick it any further than the Mason - Dixon. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

Speedy_John
09-17-2002, 13:24
Hmmm....Let's see. Do I want my ass kicked to the Mason-Dixon Line, OR, should I drink some Maker's Mark.......hmmm.........kicked in the ass.........Maker's Mark.......Hmmm........Exactly how far is it from your place to the Mason-Dixon? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

SJ

jeff
09-17-2002, 13:29
Bill Samuels knows where you are!! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif

jbutler
09-17-2002, 13:33
I have heard, straight from Mr. Van Winkle's mouth as a matter of fact that the Van Winkle and Hirsch rye's are one and the same juice. If I understood Julian correctly (hey, I was buzzin) when he's done filling up his bottles, he puts the remainder into the Hirsch label.

rwilps
09-17-2002, 13:39
I knew it! That explains why the VW 13 is always just a weeeee bit nicer all around than the Hirsch. Mama Van Winkle din't raise no fools, and Julian sure knows a barrel. I'd love to taste what he sets aside first, for the family.

Ralph Wilps

**DONOTDELETE**
09-17-2002, 14:45
http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Yeahzzsir! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Gillman
09-17-2002, 17:35
Well, I'd love to go to the Bourbon Festival, right now, it's 50/50..

Good to see (being a Canuck) the respect for Lot 40 on this board; that's about the best of our
craft rye whiskies.

On this talk about Potrero, pro and con: I like it, both versions, surely old-time ryes
were like that.

But question: why doesn't Maytag release a much older version? Did he not first distill
rye whiskey almost ten years ago?

There must be lots of that first make in the can, er, cask.

MurphyDawg
09-17-2002, 20:38
Is Bill Samuels kinda like Santa Clause????




Tom (He know if you've been bad or good. . . . .)C

jeff
09-18-2002, 05:54
He is more like the Great Pumpkin. Every fall at harvest time, Bill Samuels rises out of the wheat field and brings top quality wheated bourbon to the boys and girls with the most sincere liquor cabinets http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

MurphyDawg
09-18-2002, 06:08
LMAO!!!! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif !



Tom (I'm Out,See Yaw'll in Bardstown) C

Bob
09-18-2002, 09:04
Thanks for the info Bobby. I've never had the Sazarec, and didn't know that it's from Buffalo Trace. Is it worth twice as much as WT Rye and Old Overholt? Has anyone done a tasting on it before? I was aware that Buffalo Trace has some higher end Bourbons in their line up and that they have the Stagg coming out in Oct (?). I've only had their namesake brand which I've enjoyed a lot. As you say, with the Van Winkle association, they've got a LOT going for them right now.

Bob

ratcheer
09-18-2002, 18:17
Well, actually, Sazerac is the name of the family / company that owns the Buffalo Trace Distillery.

Tim

Blackkeno
09-21-2002, 21:34
I think Sazerac (and Van Winkle 13yo) are both worth the higher price. They are great in a very different way than WT (which I also like). IMHO they have less spice and a fuller more luxurious nose and palate. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

Gillman
12-28-2003, 11:47
Just bringing forward this older thread to comment on a rare chance (for me) to compare the current Old Overholt to the one of some 25 years ago. And it didn't happen by me finding the oldie in a dusty out-of-the-way liquor store or through a friend, but rather by being presented with a bottle I had "bunkered away" in 1987. I was spending time in Miami recently and visited snowbird relations in Fort Lauderdale. I was offered a drink from the condo bar and my host said, "oh you left this with us in 1987 and there is still some left, take it". It was a partly filled bottle of Old Overholt Straight Rye Whiskey, 86 (not 80) proof, bearing a National Distillers imprint and stating the whiskey was made in Cincinatti, Ohio. I believe no rye is made there today and beg Chuck Cowdery's indulgence to elucidate the plant history and ownership changes since the early 1980's. (By the way I want to give here a completely unsolicited plug for Chuck's bourbon newsletter of which the most recent was the best yet I have read. It covers areas we don't see here on these boards and is a real asset to keeping up on bourbon developments and history). The circa-1980 Overholt's was, very clearly, superior in taste to the current one. While bearing the familiar 4 year age statement the oldie tasted more mature than 4 years' aging would suggest, more like 7-10 years old. The flavour was rich, sweet, deep, complex, with rye tangs but good corn character too. There was not a whisper in it of the citric-like ("dry yeast") edge of numerous Beam whiskeys (certainly the current Overholt's shows it, Jim Beam White Label too and others in the range). The oldie Overholt's would have been distilled around 1980 and it hadn't changed in the bottle at all, it tasted exactly as I recall it from that time. The current one is not a bad whiskey but does not come close to the Old Overholt of 20 years ago. There is a connection in the flavour but it is tenuous at best..

Gary

jimbo
12-28-2003, 17:07
Well, not much left to say. I have tried to like the Old Overholt and the Jim Beam, but they are just a little too thin in body and flavor. In my opinion, the Wild Turkey is much better. More flavor and body. And the Rittenhouse 100 proof is so close to the Wild Turkey that I could barely tell the difference in a side by side, blind taste test.

And the Van Winkle and Hirsch are both excellent. I had a hard time telling the difference in a side by side, blind taste test. The Van Winkle is very slightly more sweet than the Hirsch.

Regards, jimbo

bluesbassdad
12-28-2003, 18:05
The Van Winkle is very slightly more sweet than the Hirsch.




I believe that Julian Van Winkle III has stated here that they are the same whiskey. By that time, I too had succumbed to temptation and had bought a bottle of the Hirsch, even though it cost an additional $10 for the bottle, compared to the Van Winkle.

Curiously, I was inclined to call the Hirsh the sweeter of the two, but by such a small margin that I hardly trusted myself to make that call.

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield (The Original DaveM)

cowdery
12-28-2003, 18:09
The National Distillers plant in Cincinnati with which I am familiar made (and perhaps still makes for its current owner, Jim Beam) the DeKuyper line of cordials, as well as Gilbey's Gin and other compound white spirits. If "Cincinnati, Ohio" is the only location identified on the label, then they must have made whiskey there at one time, but I'm not aware of any whiskey distilling that was going on in Ohio in the 1980s.

The Overholt brand itself goes back to Abraham Overholt in 1810. The business was continued by his son and cousin. Industrialist Henry Clay Frick's mother was an Overholt. He inherited some shares in the company and subsequently bought the rest, some of which he sold to Andrew Mellon, who acquired more when Frick died. As Treasury Secretary in the 20s, Mellon was responsibile for the enforcement of Prohibition, so he sold his interest to National Distillers.

Overholt was one of the few distilleries with a pretty good stock of whiskey at the end of Prohibition. It provided whiskey for many revived National Distillers brands after Repeal.

Jim Beam Brands Co. acquired National in 1987. Old Overholt today is still made and sold by Jim Beam. That's all I know.

Gillman
12-29-2003, 13:56
Thanks for this and the previous comments. I only had about four ounces left of the circa-1980 Old Overholt after some sampling with friends. As it happened, my bottle of Fleischmann's blended whiskey had been sampled by the same amount, so I added the Overholt's to the Fleishmann to top it up. This may sound like a travesty to some but I felt it made the Fleischmann's, good to start with, only better. The Fleischmann's is to my taste a very rye-leaning blend so adding the good rich Overholt's just deepened its original character, it did not vary it much less do any harm. Adding the four ounces raised the straight whiskey component of the Fleischmann by about 10%, so it is now about 65/35% neutral spirits to straight whiskey. A fine tot it is, it made a very good "rye and ginger" and drinks neat just fine. It was a way, too, to make the quality of the circa-1980 Old Overholt's last longer.

Gary

jimbo
12-29-2003, 17:17
I believe that Julian Van Winkle III has stated here that they are the same whiskey. By that time, I too had succumbed to temptation and had bought a bottle of the Hirsch, even though it cost an additional $10 for the bottle, compared to the Van Winkle.

Curiously, I was inclined to call the Hirsh the sweeter of the two, but by such a small margin that I hardly trusted myself to make that call.



Dave, we both seem to have similar tastes. What are some of your other favorites?

By the way, did you know that your picture looks just like a dog?

Regards, jimbo

Gillman
01-03-2004, 14:55
Here is an update on the progess of my Fleischmann's Preferred Blended Whiskey which as mentioned earlier I have been tweaking by adding straight rye whiskey.

First, a reminder that the whiskey as sold by Barton's is very good. It is a rye-oriented blended American whiskey. It may contain some Bourbon but most of the (25%) straight whiskey content has to be rye whiskey.

Initially as indicated earlier, after consuming about 4 ounces from a litre bottle I replaced the amount consumed by the same amount of circa 1980-distilled Old Overholt straight rye whiskey.

The result was very good. Everything in the original Fleischmann's was preserved but deepened. Fleischmann's has a potent taste of rye whiskey (that musky "damp cardboard" signature which is an acquired taste even for many whiskey devotees) against a background of light caramel, orange bitters and smooth vodka-like alcohol. Adding the rich Overholt's made it that much better but true to itself, just a "premium" version.

After 4 ounces were consumed of the replenished litre bottle, I decided to top it up with Sazerac 18 year old rye whiskey.

The result is very good indeed, a super-premium of the original Fleischmann's.

Now, the blend has more body, a complex bouquet, edges of oak in the taste and finish, in a word, considerable further depth. The original elements are still there (the rye, the caramel, the orange peel, the smooth alcohol) but just that much better.

I've got it now to about 50/50 straight whiskey to the neutral spirit and will leave it as is. I don't think I can make it any better without changing it into something different.

I wonder who the blender is at Barton's responsible for Fleischmann's. I'd like to give him a taste of my "improvement". I wonder if he would agree it is on the continuum of what he made but better due to the addition two quality straight rye whiskeys.

Gary