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jburlowski
06-21-2006, 17:29
Recently, in Indianapolis, I ordered a pour of 2002 GTS. While enjoying it (a lot) another bartender approached me. Looking left, then right, to be sure no one was listening, he leaned in and said in a conspiratorial whisper, " Most people don't know that when they buy Stagg they're being ripped off. The distillery takes Booker's that isn't good enough and puts it into these tall bottles and sells it at a premium price."

What is the wackiest thing you’ve heard about our favorite libation?

Gillman
06-21-2006, 18:12
Well, it would be hard to beat that one!

Gary

wadewood
06-22-2006, 00:03
" Most people don't know that when they buy Stagg they're being ripped off. The distillery takes Booker's that isn't good enough and puts it into these tall bottles and sells it at a premium price."

Only after the Booker's is run through the Dane's Amazing New Age Dogshit Aging Accelerator does the it turn to Stagg.

luv2hunt
06-22-2006, 14:29
" Most people don't know that when they buy Stagg they're being ripped off. The distillery takes Booker's that isn't good enough and puts it into these tall bottles and sells it at a premium price."



I can't help but wonder if that bartender had some insider information he's busting out with???? Like maybe they HAD a bottle of 2002 Stagg....made a bunch of money selling it and couldn't get another...so filled it with Bookers?

Are you sure it tasted right? I may have to get Jon and Randy to go check this out!

Dawn

TimmyBoston
06-22-2006, 15:25
What bar were you at, I live in Indy and I'd love to talk to that bartender, I bet he's a riot, even if he doesn't know it. That's hilarious.

Barrel_Proof
06-22-2006, 15:36
This is probably a bartender that thinks good vodka has qualities, too!

jeff
06-22-2006, 16:54
I once had someone tell me that they had actually visited the "Knob Creek Distillery", and by their discription, I knew they weren't talking about Jim Beam.

jburlowski
06-25-2006, 16:38
I can't help but wonder if that bartender had some insider information he's busting out with???? Like maybe they HAD a bottle of 2002 Stagg....made a bunch of money selling it and couldn't get another...so filled it with Bookers?

Dawn

I've had all the Staggs (though this was my first with 2002).... it definitely wasn't Booker's. It had all the complexity and richness (and oak) that one would expect from a GTS.

gr8erdane
06-26-2006, 03:31
And also after Booker's is run through Dane it turns to Smirnoff Citrus Twist Vodka...

Nebraska
06-26-2006, 06:29
I have to tell all of you I am amazed at how many times in a liquor store or a bar when I ask for bourbon, I am immediately directed verbally (and sometimes physically) to the Jack Daniels Display with with 50 bottles sitting on a barrel or shelf. "Yeah we've got bourbon, we've got Jack Daniels".


Ok,Ok...the displays aren't normally in bars...but the comment is.

clayton
06-26-2006, 14:29
It's not exactly "wacky," but I wish I could count how many times I've heard people say, "Oh, I like bourbon and whiskey" or "I like scotch and whiskey" as thought whiskey were somehow a separate product. This odd turn of phrase happens even with people who seem to know a little bit about it.

This also crops up on bar menus. One of my local favorites has these two sections: "Single Malt Scotch" (Laphroaig, Balvenie, essentially anything with a gaelic name) and "Bourbon and Whiskey" (for Jim Beam, Crown Royal, Jack Daniel's, and even Johnnie Walker.) And this is a fairly high-tab joint, too.

FlashPuppy
07-15-2006, 07:20
So my girlfriend and I went to a bar in downtown San Diego the other night. She ordered a pomegranite cosmo, which was fairly good as far as those things go.

I asked the "bartender", "What do you have for bourbon?", while I was eyeing a bottle of Basil Hayden, WT101, MM and Bookers on the top shelf.

He replies, "Oh, well, we have Jim Beam, WT, Jack Daniels and Crown Royal."

Bartender? How did HE get THAT liscence?

scopenut
07-15-2006, 21:01
Worst encounter lately was a hotel in Albuquerque. Asked what bourbons were available and got "Jack Daniels, Crown Royal, and Canadian Club". Not even Beam White. Why is bourbon such a persona non grata at many places? Having to explain an historic genre of whiskey to a bartender or waitress seems surreal.

Kevin

ratcheer
07-16-2006, 07:13
Worst encounter lately was a hotel in Albuquerque. Asked what bourbons were available and got "Jack Daniels, Crown Royal, and Canadian Club". Not even Beam White. Why is bourbon such a persona non grata at many places? Having to explain an historic genre of whiskey to a bartender or waitress seems surreal.

Kevin

They are just kids. To them, bourbon is just some strange thing that old people drink.

All they know is vodka, tequila, and spiced rum. And a bunch of weird kiddie coolers.

Tim

jsgorman
07-16-2006, 09:15
It's not exactly "wacky," but I wish I could count how many times I've heard people say, "Oh, I like bourbon and whiskey" or "I like scotch and whiskey" as thought whiskey were somehow a separate product. This odd turn of phrase happens even with people who seem to know a little bit about it.

This also crops up on bar menus. One of my local favorites has these two sections: "Single Malt Scotch" (Laphroaig, Balvenie, essentially anything with a gaelic name) and "Bourbon and Whiskey" (for Jim Beam, Crown Royal, Jack Daniel's, and even Johnnie Walker.) And this is a fairly high-tab joint, too.


Clayton,
Separating Single Malt Scotch from Bourbon and Whiskey is both appropriate and accurate. Single Malt Scotch Whisky must be produced be from Scotland (Scotch) and be made from 100% malted barley (fermented with yeast) and distilled in traditional pot stills. No other grain product or fermentable material is allowed and it must not been blended with whisky from any other distillery.

Jim Beam is a Bourbon (Corn), Jack Daniels is a Tennesee Whiskey, Crown Royal is a blend of various grain whiskies and Johnnie Walker is a blend of malted scotch whiskies.

To me, the best examples of Bourbon and Scotch are as different as red and white wines. Sure they are both made from grapes, but in the glass there is absolutely no confusion.

Ambernecter
07-16-2006, 09:38
A few years back a Scotch snob berrated me at a party for enjoying whiskey from the USA. He said that there were no strict contols on how they made "that rotgut" and one of them (I forget which brand of Bourbon now) could strip the enamel of sinks.

I told him that maybe he was confusing an old prohibition era story with fact, but he insisted that Bourbon was basically moonshine and I should be careful.

I didn't bother arguing - you have got to be kind to blind people I guess!

I also saw a guy in a bar about 20 years ago order a Jack Daniel's (which was right at the back of the bar and not that popular back then.) The barmaid went straight to the optics and poured him a Johnny Walker Black whilst he watched. He paid for the drink and went and sat down happy. I was confused and amused at the same time.

jsgorman
07-16-2006, 10:36
As far as quality control, Bourbon is more heavily regulated than Scotch. The problem you have is that bourbon sells for such a stupid price in the UK. Here, you can pay the same price for a bottle of A'bundah or Bowmore 17 and GTS. I imagine in the UK, the GTS is much more expensive.

Funny extension to your story, I've seen the other way around here. Somone asked for a Johnny Black and got a 'Jack Black' instead.

FlashPuppy
07-16-2006, 10:53
They are just kids. To them, bourbon is just some strange thing that old people drink.

All they know is vodka, tequila, and spiced rum. And a bunch of weird kiddie coolers.

Tim

I don't know about that. I am only twenty-one. I just have a serious problem with dumb bartenders.

ratcheer
07-16-2006, 10:56
I didn't bother arguing - you have got to be kind to blind people I guess!



Keeping away from strife is an honor for a man,
But any fool will quarrel.

Proverbs 20:3

Ken Weber
07-19-2006, 13:58
I was in Dallas and asked the bartender what the best selling bourbons were.
#1. Jack Daniel's
#2. Crown Royal
#3. Southern Comfort
#4. Jim Beam

When I said only one was a bourbon he informed me that I was obviously new to the business and needed to learn a lot more before I lost what little credibility I had. Oh well........

Ken

FlashPuppy
07-19-2006, 17:07
When I said only one was a bourbon he informed me that I was obviously new to the business and needed to learn a lot more before I lost what little credibility I had. Oh well........


wow.....:rolleyes:

ThomasH
07-19-2006, 17:14
Imagine that, a bartender telling a bourbon distillery employee about the whiskey business. You should have asked about his selection of blended scotch. I'll bet the 1st brand to come out of his mouth would be Seagrams 7. Better yet, next time you are in Dallas, schedule a bourbon tasting and send that guy an invitation and then catch the look on his face when he finds out about your credentials.

Thomas

kbuzbee
07-19-2006, 17:49
I was in Dallas and asked the bartender what the best selling bourbons were.
#1. Jack Daniel's
#2. Crown Royal
#3. Southern Comfort
#4. Jim Beam

When I said only one was a bourbon he informed me that I was obviously new to the business and needed to learn a lot more before I lost what little credibility I had. Oh well........

Ken

Well, I guess you'd better buckle down, Ken! That's TOO funny.

Ken

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-20-2006, 00:36
I was in Dallas and asked the bartender what the best selling bourbons were.
#1. Jack Daniel's
#2. Crown Royal
#3. Southern Comfort
#4. Jim Beam

When I said only one was a bourbon he informed me that I was obviously new to the business and needed to learn a lot more before I lost what little credibility I had. Oh well........

Ken

My first reaction was a belly laugh. Now I am just agog. I don't think you should let him stock any of your products.
Ed

TimmyBoston
07-20-2006, 02:25
When I worked in a restaurant, I had a debate with my supervisor over whether Jack Daniels, Crown Royal and many other canadian Whiskeys were bourbon. He insisted they were and no matter what I said to the contrary; I was wrong and stupid.

Another time at a bar, I specifically asked for Single Malt Scotch, the bartender started at the vast selection of bottles for a long moment and finally answered, Johnny Walker Red and Johnny Walker Black, but coincidentally left out the Gold and Blue which were immediately adjecent on the shelf. (I guess he didn't see that insignificant little word, "blended".) And on top of that, the Classic Malt's Collection, which actually are single malts were in plain sight at the center of the top shelf. :hot:

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-20-2006, 07:08
I don't know about that. I am only twenty-one. I just have a serious problem with dumb bartenders.

Glad to hear there are young people with taste and knowledge on our board.
Really glad.
Ed

ratcheer
07-20-2006, 16:28
When I worked in a restaurant, I had a debate with my supervisor over whether Jack Daniels, Crown Royal and many other canadian Whiskeys were bourbon. He insisted they were and no matter what I said to the contrary; I was wrong and stupid.



Couldn't you have just shown him the bottles and asked him to show you the word "bourbon" anywhere on them?

Since he was the stupid one, I don't imagine it would have helped. :rolleyes:

Tim

Frodo
07-20-2006, 16:50
I was in Dallas and asked the bartender what the best selling bourbons were.
#1. Jack Daniel's
#2. Crown Royal
#3. Southern Comfort
#4. Jim Beam

When I said only one was a bourbon he informed me that I was obviously new to the business and needed to learn a lot more before I lost what little credibility I had. Oh well........

Ken

I had the same reaction as Ed. That's too funny...

cowdery
07-20-2006, 19:06
In Ken's case, unfortunately, the customer is always right and, by extension, always not stupid.

In Tim's case, the right response would seem to be, "if it doesn't say bourbon on the label, it's not bourbon," although I guess the boss is always right too.

tmas
07-21-2006, 20:40
What is the wackiest thing you’ve heard about our favorite libation?[/QUOTE]

That it needed to take a back seat to Scotch. Tom V

abills
07-22-2006, 00:52
Jack Daniels.. not bourbon, right? It's TN Whiskey... it's fine TN Whisksy, but not really considered bourbon, right?

BourbonJoe
07-22-2006, 05:45
Right.
Joe

gothbat
07-22-2006, 19:33
Jack Daniels.. not bourbon, right? It's TN Whiskey... it's fine TN Whisksy, but not really considered bourbon, right?
Haha, I was just in Wegmans and they had Jack Daniels on sale, the tag on the shelf said "Jack Daniels Bourbon". But yeah, although similar it's technically not a bourbon.

Scooby
07-24-2006, 06:27
What is the wackiest thing you’ve heard about our favorite libation?

That it needed to take a back seat to Scotch. Tom V

I've been collecting and drinking SSMW for about 25 years now, and while I think that there isn't much better than a good Single Malt...I think exactly the same about Bourbon, and TW! :yum:
Not much can compete with GTS, or Bookers, or many premium Bourbons, and the same can be said about a 1972 Brora, or a 1974 Ardbeg, or..., and the same can be said about Sazerac 18yo or about Jack Daniel Barrelhouse One...:icon_pidu:

Why, on God's great earth do people feel the urge to let these drinks compete? They are as different from each other, as "Batida de coco" is from "Cointreau"...!

One of my best friends is an avid Scotch Lover, and his proverb is: "Life is to short to waste on Bourbon"... :horseshit:
My finest day was the one where I had him taste 7 different whisky's (whisky is defined here as: a distillate made from a fermented grain or grains) blind... 3 of which were Bourbon or Rye (GTS, Sazerac and William Larue Weller)... and the 3 Americans were deemed very good whiskies, and came out on top!... He classified them as Scotch! :bowdown: He will hear that till the day he dies! :slappin: That 'll shut him up! :grin:
Good thing about it... It changed his view on the matter drastically! :cool:

So, I enjoy a good grain distillate, and I do not compare (as in better or worse) the styles...be it Single Malt Scotch, Straigth Bourbon, TW, Straight Rye or Single Malt Rye.... They all have their superb versions, and they all are more equal then each other.... :skep:

Scooby.
PS. The other whiskies in that tasting: Single Malt Glen Moray Mountain oak (matured in virgin american oak), Single Grain North British 17yo by Cadenhead's, Single Grain Japanese Nikka 'Coffey' Grain 10yo , and Glen Scotia 17yo by signatory, ex bourbon barrel... al of them were single cask and cask Strength...
For those who think that should be an easy task...these were presented blind, out of neutral brown Bottles, and poured into Dark blue 'official' tasting glasses....And no clue whatsoever was given about the nature of the drink in the glass. The tasters were only asked to give there opinion on quality and to venture a guess on what exactly they were drinking. (sort, region, name if possible) Out of 10 people attending only 2 completed the latter part of the tasting faultless (meaning: they identified the drinks as bourbon, rye, single malt, single grain, scotch or japanese) .... and all 10 of them were experienced tasters with more than 10 years experience!
No easy task, I can assure you! Even if the whisky's seem to be vastly different from each other!

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-31-2006, 07:16
Not exactly wacky, but...
Several times Japanese drinkers have told me that bourbon is 'kusai' or, in English, Bourbon stinks. It is true that most native Japanese spirits are rather mild on the nose and palate. Usually low proof, 20% to 30 %, is normal. Of course, not all Japanese whiskey drinks think so. But it is telling that the some of the most popular bourbons are also rather mild. And also strange that more really old bourbons, some would say overaged, find a home here.

My wife says that it smells like puke. I think you can guess where she got that idea.

Ed

Gillman
07-31-2006, 16:20
I wouldn't call the Nikka malt whisky Koji brought to the second-to-last Gazebo mild either in ABV or taste. I've found some sakes too have a pungent, forward taste. On the other hand, a product like bourbon probably culturally is different from what has been experienced historically and its "differentness" has lead to this interesting name. Maybe in an odd way it is a term of endearment because as Ed noted Japan innovated by asking American producers to send over older and therefore more pungent examples of the type.

Gary

Edward_call_me_Ed
08-01-2006, 00:07
I wouldn't call the Nikka malt whisky Koji brought to the second-to-last Gazebo mild either in ABV or taste. I've found some sakes too have a pungent, forward taste. On the other hand, a product like bourbon probably culturally is different from what has been experienced historically and its "differentness" has lead to this interesting name. Maybe in an odd way it is a term of endearment because as Ed noted Japan innovated by asking American producers to send over older and therefore more pungent examples of the type.

Gary

I don't know what Koji brought to the Gazebo, but I think it might have been Nikka's Yoichi 10 yo. Or maybe it wasn't, the Yoichi 10 is 40% ABV, unless he had a cask strenth version. It is a nice smoky dram with out being over the top about it. Interestingly, I had brought a bottle of Yoichi 10 to a wake I attended last weekend. The person there who said bourbon 'stinks' lapped the Yoichi 10 up. He didn't like the sample of ELT I poured him. Maybe I should have offered him a taste of Elijah Craig 12...
Ed

Gillman
08-01-2006, 04:32
Yoichi 10 year old it was, and as I recall it was cask strength. This was a well-flavoured Scots-style whisky, it would meet with approval by anyone who admires a good dram of assertive malt. But even mildly peated whisky is an acquired taste. Whisky gained acceptance starting in the 1920's and probably earlier in elite or influential circles.

I think bourbon in time will achieve a similar status but it is a much newer drink there (as indeed in Britain). I would think Blanton and other bourbons that do not show a heavy barrel character are likely to be more appreciated than whiskeys showing a good barrel char effect. Anyway I think it may take a decade or two more before the taste for bourbon, in whisky circles, achieves the acceptance and prestige of Scots and Japanese whiskies. In my view this is not because bourbon has a strong or unusual taste relatively speaking. It takes time anywhere to implant the taste for something different.

In Canada, bourbon is termed very often "sweet". I can't count the times I've heard that.

Gary

kbuzbee
08-01-2006, 05:20
But even mildly peated whisky is an acquired taste.

While I think you are generally right about this, Gary, for me, that acquisition time was .0001 sec :lol: I loved that smokey/peatey flavor of Laphroaig and Lagavulin on my very first sip of each. Just wonderful. The thing I "acquired" was the bottle at the local store. The taste for it, I already had. I just didn't know it yet. I had read comments similar to yours for some time before trying these and was prepared to spend some time learning to appreciate them (some descriptions of Laphroaig actually "scared" me:shocked: ). I needent have worried!:grin:

Ken

Gillman
08-01-2006, 06:30
No question, Ken, that some people acquire the taste quickly. Generally though it is my understanding this is not so. The evolution of Scotch in its homeland shows this because steadily malts have gotten (with exceptions and you mentioned some great ones) less peaty and briny. Michael Jackson has made the point that Speyside whiskies used to have a definite smoky edge that is much less frequent today. And of course blending tends to blunt the effect of peat.

Gary

kbuzbee
08-01-2006, 07:52
100% Gary. Speysides are to the point I don't even buy them. Even the folks at Laphroaig IMO erred with their Quarter Cask offering. The recasking muted the raw peat too much for my likeing... It was "less" whiskey than their standard 10yo, IMO. CS on th other hand... Wow! That stuff is amazing! Hope to pick up another one today. It's sure pricey compared to their base offering though. Fortunately, a little goes a LONG way. Similar to GTS it's a quality over quantity thing.

Ken

Scooby
08-01-2006, 09:17
No question, Ken, that some people acquire the taste quickly. Generally though it is my understanding this is not so. The evolution of Scotch in its homeland shows this because steadily malts have gotten (with exceptions and you mentioned some great ones) less peaty and briny. Michael Jackson has made the point that Speyside whiskies used to have a definite smoky edge that is much less frequent today. And of course blending tends to blunt the effect of peat.

Gary


While you are right Gary, that generally Speysiders became less and less peaty/smoky, the reason is not that it was an acquired taste! It was wrongly assumed by the people in the industry that peaty-style whisky's would be found undrinkable, because the reason for the rise in fame of Scotch were blended whisky's... Blends were designed to fill the gap that was created by the demise of Brandy and Cognac when Phyloxera hit the vineyards in France... those were pretty smooth and sweet in style (as they still are) and Blends were created to match that profile.... Because of their huge succes and taylor-made style the retroverse assumption was made that peaty and/or smoky whiskies would/could not be succesfull... Hence most distilleries tried to change their profile in order to fit in that assumption! I am Lucky enough to know some people who were involved in Bottling Scotch Single Malt, before it became the hype it is now, and they litterally told me that they thought at the time (late 50-ties early 60-ties) that people would find Islay style whisky's undrinkable... but they never checked that assumption against reality! They were very surprised to see Bowmore and Laphroaig succeeded and were much sought after in the 60-ties. Only then did they take the risk to try to bottle some peaty malts out of the highlands and speyside (most noticably Glen Garioch and Ardmore) and they were well received allso. I friend of mine has a liquor-store (www.whiskycorner.be) and he tells me very often that people do like their first sip of a peaty Scotch, provided they were not indoctrinated beforehand by tastings where they learned that peat is an acquired taste...
I think it is not! How many people say that barbequed meat is an acquired taste? How many people still (unfortunately) smoke or like the smell of smoke (campfire, aso) ... a lot! It's like doing your first completely blind tasting... most people will pick another favorite than they would if they knew what they were drinking. Perception is a mighty pliable thing!
The trend of non smoky whisky is declining... people like some character in their glass! Which is why SMSW became the hype it is, in the first place... Blends were to bland!

Just my 2p,

Scooby :toast:

brian12069
10-29-2006, 18:06
I once offered a friend some bourbon and he said, "no thanks, I don't like hard liquor" and then asked me for a rum and coke.

What is "hard liquor"?
Isn't rum liquor?...the "hard" part is what I found wacky

ratcheer
11-02-2006, 19:21
Well, yes, certainly rum is "hard liquor". Although, after mixing it with Coke, maybe not. :skep:

Tim

full_proof
11-04-2006, 17:54
Without a doubt, the story of my grandmother taking partially-empty bottles, in varying degrees, of my grandfather's Irish whiskey, (KY) Bourbon, Tennessee, Scotch and Canadian drams and "consolidating" them into fewer bottles so she could "clean up" his study and conserve shelf space. :cry: And even more whacky, their marriage (and my grandmother) survived.

melting
11-04-2006, 17:55
Too much of that will make you go blind. Wait a minute I think that was something else.

Nebraska
11-05-2006, 07:53
...and Gilmanizing was born.

Gillman
11-05-2006, 14:18
Actually Mark, I have standards. :)

This is not to say the said combination could not work but great care would have to be taken.

Actually when you think that Johnnie Walker is composed of so many different (albeit) Scotch whiskies, and that Scotch whiskies very dramatically amongst themselves, why could an adroit blend of the world's whiskies not be suitable or even very good?

Gary

Rughi
11-05-2006, 14:26
...why could an adroit blend of the world's whiskies not be suitable or even very good?
Gary

Most Scotch is blended with Bourbon already; Scottish distilleries leach the flavors out of all the old bourbon barrels that didn't end up as flower planters in Kentucky. ;)

Roger

Gillman
11-05-2006, 14:57
Thanks Roger; how could it hurt to add more?

Gary

Nebraska
11-05-2006, 18:24
Gary I've been in admiration of how exacting you are when it comes to this...I'm just figuring this may have been the prehistoric beginnings to the process. :lol:

Gillman
11-05-2006, 18:56
Whisky Magazine had a feature about a year ago on international whisky blends. It made for interesting reading!

Gary

CrispyCritter
11-05-2006, 19:51
We had a thread about it (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4951) earlier this year, as well. I ought to try another such vatting.