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Hedmans Brorsa
07-08-2006, 04:19
There´s been a lot of speculation on this board about the possibility of future bourbons being produced by micro distilleries.

Only a couple a minutes ago I stumbled upon this bottle on one of the places in Germany that I do mail-order from. You can reach the web-site via www.weinquelle.com (look for American whiskey.) However, the information is sparse.

Have anyone else heard about this one?

Gillman
07-08-2006, 06:00
There was some discussion on this last year here. Ed in Japan found and asked about it. Ken Weber said it wasn't BT's. I did some quick googling and found it listed in various foreign liquor dealers' websites. It is 12 years old and apparently made in Louisville. I suspect it is from the S-W distillery. Maybe the word "micro" was a reference to that plant. I think it is unlikely this is from a micro distillery in Louisville in the sense of a small new independent operation, I think we'd have heard about it, but of course I can't be sure. (The ones I know of intending to release bourbon are a winery-distillery in Cincinnati and a distillery near New Paltz, NY in the Hudson Valley which will market Hudson Baby Bourbon).

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
07-08-2006, 06:28
Thanks, Gary. For some reason I took it for granted that if it had been discussed, then I should´ve remembered it. Obviously, I was wrong.

Exploring Weinquelle further, I discover that there´s almost a truckload of new bourbons that have appeared on their site. "American Cowboy little barrel", "Cock of the walk 12yo", "Preservation bourbon 12yo, "Pure Antique 10yo", "Rare perfection 12yo", "Wattie Boone´s and sons Ancient reserve 15yo" and, best of all, "Run for the Roses thoroughbred bourbon 16yo".

Lovers of phoney bottlings should have a field day! :grin:

Gillman
07-08-2006, 09:50
Those are great names, I've got to hand it to the marketers, and the whiskey is probably pretty good, too. :)

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
07-08-2006, 10:03
Interestingly, on another German site that I freqeuent, www.spirituosen-superbillig.de they claim Dakota to be :

Dakota 12 years Micro Bourbon with 700 ml. and 43 % Vol. From Louisville Kentucky. Pot stilled using pure grain and Kentucky limestone water. Matured in very small barrels. Very dark colour.

Pot-stilled!? I wonder what the label says? Paging Edward-call-me-Ed! :)

Gillman
07-08-2006, 10:39
Well, this gets more curious! Maybe you are onto something, Hedmans, the reference to pot stills doesn't fit unless they are referring a la the original Michter's to the doubler part of the still. But how to explain the "very small barrels"? Hopefully Ed can indicate what the label states in toto. Could this have been some early micro experiment we were not aware of? Hard to think they would wait 12 years to sell it..

Gary

cowdery
07-09-2006, 18:46
My primary advice would be: don't believe a word of it. The Hirsch products, by long tradition, say they were "pot still" whiskey, when the best available evidence is that they were no different from any other American whiskey, all of which is second-distilled in a pot still.

"Micro" is another example. I broke my pick at Jim Beam for giving them shit about calling their Jacob's Well a "micro-distilled bourbon," when it, in fact, came out of the same big ass stills as everything else.

As for the "very small barrels," I know of no U.S. producer who has ever used anything but standard 55 gallon barrels for anything except experimental production.

The label style on the Dakota reminds me of some KBD products, and they are a big supplier of obscure, over-aged (whoops, I mean "extra-aged") bourbons to Northern Europe, but that's just a guess.

Hedmans Brorsa
07-10-2006, 01:07
obscure, over-aged (whoops, I mean "extra-aged") bourbons t

I´m your No. 1 fan, Chuck! You just climbed up a level, above Björn Borg! :grin:

What is interesting, however, if it is a KBD product, is that it is supposed to come from Louisville. A deviation from earlier KBD tradition. And if it´s 12yo, then it predates the HH takeover of Bernheim.

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-10-2006, 16:36
Hi Hedmans,
I have a bottle of Dakota. I don't know anymore about where it comes from that what it says on the label. No age statement, by the way. Like Chuck, I take all that with a grain of salt. I also have American Cowboy 17 year old. The label say it comes from Nelson County Kentucky. They both say something about small barrels. And they taste more or less alike. The Dakota doesn't taste like a 12 year old. I would guess that it is under eight, but that is only a guess. The 17is really good. Not woody, but tastes its age. When I say they taste the same, I mean that taste like they are the same whiskey at different ages. I am not sure that they are, but that is my opinion.
Ed

Hedmans Brorsa
07-11-2006, 03:46
Thanks, Ed.

It didn´t mention anything about Louisville on the label, then? I wonder where that info comes from?

Is your bottle identifiable as a Japanese bottling, by the way? These that I linked to are all 700 ml bottles which clearly marks them as European releases. Yours, I gather, is from last year. There could be differences.

I wonder why it is called Dakota? :confused:

Edward_call_me_Ed
07-11-2006, 08:54
Thanks, Ed.

It didn´t mention anything about Louisville on the label, then? I wonder where that info comes from?

Is your bottle identifiable as a Japanese bottling, by the way? These that I linked to are all 700 ml bottles which clearly marks them as European releases. Yours, I gather, is from last year. There could be differences.

I wonder why it is called Dakota? :confused:

Sorry to have confused you. The Dakota is from Louisville. 750 ml. The bottle is the same as the Eagle Rare SB 10 that I have, which is what made me think if might be from Buffalo Trace last year. Chuck pointed out that Ken Wilber said it wasn't. I just checked and the bottle appear to be identical. Same as the Spring Stagg bottle and very similar to the Rare Perfection bottle I have.
Drew Kulsveen said that last was one of his. Chuck, Is his company called KBD?
Ed

cowdery
07-11-2006, 15:29
Yes, Drew Kulsveen is KBD.

Don't exhaust yourselves trying to reason these things out. They might be the equivalent of random thoughts. Someone knew bourbon was from Kentucky and the only city in Kentucky they could think of was Louisville. They wanted something that sounded American, they were looking at a picture of Mount Rushmore and saw "Dakota."

Maybe it's more than that but the point is, it doesn't have to be.

I wonder if 50 ml is enough difference to require a different bottle, or do they just fill them to a different line? U.S. bottles are 750 ml.