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MikeK
07-14-2006, 06:13
As some of you may know, this Barton product is only sold in Wisconsin. My Dad is headed out there tomorow for a couple weeks for the Oshkosh Fly-in. I'm going to give him a mission to bring me back a bottle or two.

Question, is there just a single product, or are there multiple proof expressions? I'm also curious if the delightful bubble gum taste is from the Rye, or some polymers leaching out of the plastic 1.75 handle I had some from.

Thanks!

Gillman
07-14-2006, 07:13
Mike, the spearmint gum taste is characteristic of some rye whiskeys. Don't worry about the plastic, it is not affecting the taste!. To my knowledge, this product is 80 proof only. If you check out Barton Brands web site, you will find photos of the current packaging used for the brand. Not all these may still be offered since the market is small, but probably they would still offer the regular-size bottle and maybe the 1.75 litre. It is a good product and really a survival, with the others we know, of a style of whiskey at one time very popular in the parts of the country.

Gary

MikeK
07-14-2006, 08:14
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the info. I thought I had found the Bartons website unhelpful in the past, but I was wrong, the info is right there. I do detect a minty taste in many Bourbons and Ryes, but the Fleischmann's Rye I had at the Sampler had a "bubble gum" taste, like the old bazooka bubble gum. LeNell let my buddy Art fill a 375ml from the 1.75L she had brought along. It is an interesting an enjoyable product, so I'm going to see if I can get some more. I recall us giving Greg Davis some good natured grief about the unavailability of this product. He shrugged and blamed it on marketing.

Thanks,

Gillman
07-14-2006, 08:22
I had some too on the same trip, it is a very authentic taste. It doesn't have the finesse or length of older ryes but is very good as a four year old rye. You are tasting some of the esters and other congeners typical of rye whiskey. In checking www.bartonbrands.com, I note that its Mr. Boston line includes a rock and rye, which I am sure is available in Wisconsin. You may want to try this rock and rye (or any rock and rye, but this one gains authenticity because made by Barton) with the straight rye, say 50/50 or any other combination you like. (Rock and rye can be quite sweet and 3:1 rye to the cordial is usually plenty sweet).

Gary

chasking
07-14-2006, 08:39
Please let me know where exactly in Wisconsin you find it. I'm taking a trip up there in a few months and I want to get some too.

MikeK
07-14-2006, 08:56
Please let me know where exactly in Wisconsin you find it. I'm taking a trip up there in a few months and I want to get some too.
Sure enough, I'll let you know how it goes. I'm asking my Dad to take a look while he is at Oshkosh, so I'm hoping it is pretty common.

Gary, I got LeNell's Rock & Rye recipe and made up a batch myself using Rittenhouse BIB. I enjoyed it a lot, but have to make small batches since no one else I know cared for it. It is too strong for the non-whiskey drinkers and too sweet for the whiskey drinkers. That's OK, more for me. :)

Gillman
07-14-2006, 09:10
LeNell's rock and rye was absolutely great, the best I ever had. Even 4:1 whiskey to rock and rye it makes a sensational drink (really an Old-Fashioned). I suspect the Mr. Boston brand is pretty good, too. The label states by the way it is made (blended, I would think) in Owensboro.

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
07-14-2006, 09:56
I might have missed something obvious here, but why is this whiskey only available in Wisconsin?

Is WI a traditional rye stronghold?

tgriff
07-14-2006, 10:04
i was wondering the same thing Hedmans Brorsa asked.

cowdery
07-14-2006, 13:03
I might have missed something obvious here, but why is this whiskey only available in Wisconsin?

Is WI a traditional rye stronghold?

Not really. If there is a "rye stronghold," it tends to be the northeast.

The answer is simply that, for whatever reason, it sells enough there to keep selling it. The three-tier system can often mean that producers don't really know why a wholesaler is buying something, but if the volume is sufficient they keep selling it. Undoubtedly Fleischmann's rye once had a wider distribution, of which this is a vestige.

Wisconsin, I know, is a big market for things like peppermint schnapps that don't sell particularly well in other places. A significant portion of the spirits market there is what people buy to 'keep warm' when they are out hunting and fishing. That is about all of the insight I can provide.

I, too, have an interest in this product as I have never tasted it.

MikeK
07-14-2006, 13:55
I, too, have an interest in this product as I have never tasted it.

It is young, light and fruity, with a pronounced "bazooka bubblegum" nose and flavor. It is quite unsophisticated, but amusing and enjoyable. I would not drink this all the time, but I find it a pleasant and fun change of pace, kind of like straight corn whiskey.

Cheers,

JeffRenner
07-14-2006, 21:25
Mike, the spearmint gum taste is characteristic of some rye whiskeys. Don't worry about the plastic, it is not affecting the taste!.

A quick check-in before two weeks on Cape Ann in Mass, where I will be delightfully out of internet contact (but within bourbon contact, I hope).

Anyway, I visit my sister in Mosinee, Wisconsin, every summer, and last summer finally picked up a 1.75 L of Fleishmann's, along with a liter of Stephen Foster. I think I reported on these last summer when I got home.

The prices in WI are incredible, at least in the cities. I think I paid something like $18 for the handle of Fleischmann's, and aobut $10 for the Foster.

What I get from the Fleischmann's is neither bubblegum nor spearmint, but rather wintergreen (also called teaberry - see recent discussions here), as well as other fruity notes and some distant, deep rumblings of rye bread.

It is generally in the style of Jim Beam rye, a favorite of mine since I got back into American whiskeys ten years ago or so. The Foster is in a similar style, but nowhere in the class of the other two. These are all similar in that they express the character of the spirit with a minimum of barrel influence - beyond the maturing effect, that is. Very little caramel/brown sugar/maple sugar, etc.

Now I love a well matured rye (Saz-18, for example), but there is something utterly charming about a young (but sufficiently matured) rye. I really do think that young, but sufficiently matured, whiskeys are given short shrift here. A four year bourbon or rye is sometimes just what I want. And when I do, Fleischmann's hits my spot. Even more than my first love, JB rye.

I had arrived home from a wonderful evening out with friends at our local brewpub (http://www.arborbrewing.com), where we have dinner every Friday evening, and I felt like having a whiskey nightcap. Since our dining companions are also originally from Cincinnati, I had told them how pleased I was with HH 6-yo BiB, so that was what I had poured as a nightcap as I sat down to try to catch up with the threads on SB.com. But upon reading this thread, I poured a tot of Fleischmann's, and damned if I didn't find it so appealing that I didn't pour another.

I would be hard pressed to decide which of the two, HH 6-yo BiB or the Fleischmann's rye, I find to be a better value for a bottom shelf whiskey, but I think that tonight, I'm inclined toward the Fleischmann's.

And with that, I will have another swallow of it and turn in!

Cheers.

Jeff

Hedmans Brorsa
07-15-2006, 02:58
I, too, have an interest in this product as I have never tasted it.

Thanks for the insight, Chuck.

Well, what can you say? The ultra-elusive Barton strikes again! :)

Maybe, with the relative resurgence of rye, things could change for the better? Itīs up to us to bombard them with letters demanding a more widespread distribution.

I have to say that for me, being non-American, Wisconsin really comes across as an obscure phenomenon.

In most cases I am able to identify a state with something. Texas=oil, Minnesota=Scandinavian immigrants, Utah=Mormons, etc. But what about Wisconsin? I am unable to come up with anything of substance.

ratcheer
07-15-2006, 06:49
Wisconsin = cheese (and dairy products, in general)

Wisconsin = beer (or, at least, it used to)

Tim

MikeK
07-15-2006, 07:00
A quick check-in before two weeks on Cape Ann in Mass, where I will be delightfully out of internet contact (but within bourbon contact, I hope).

Hi Jeff,

Be sure to head a few miles north to NH and check out one of the state liquor stores. Their whiskey selection is OK, but if they do have it the price is often excellent. I used to get Henry McKenna 10yo for $20 and they have a huge stock of the Sazerac 6yo for $19.

Here is the online whiskey price list:
http://nh.gov/liquor/pl01.shtml

If you make it south of Boston at all, stop by for a pour.

Cheers,
Mike

JeffRenner
07-15-2006, 07:19
Be sure to head a few miles north to NH and check out one of the state liquor stores.

Thanks for the tip, Mike. I will try to work that into my busy schedule of doing nearly nothing. :cool:

Cheers

Jeff

Hedmans Brorsa
07-15-2006, 10:29
Wisconsin = beer (or, at least, it used to)

Tim

When you mention it, yes, as a former beer can collector I can vaguely recall some beers from WI being imported to Sweden in the early 80īs (possibly).

I canīt remember any brand names, though.

JeffRenner
07-15-2006, 12:58
I canīt remember any brand names, though.

Off the top of my head, Schlitz (the beer that made Milwaukee famous), Pabst, Miller, Blatz, Heileman, Leinenkugel, Steven's Point, Huber, I'm sure I've forgotten some. There were many hundreds before prohibition (1919), and probably still over 100 when it was over, but the number slowly dwindled through the years. These are ones that have survived to the present in one form or another.

Jeff

bluesbassdad
07-15-2006, 13:15
. . . Blatz, . . .

aka, "The Beer That Made Milwaukee Change Its Mind" ! :grin:

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

cowdery
07-17-2006, 16:18
One reason Milwaukee and Wisconsin generally became such a beer capital is that after the Chicago fire of 1871, which destroyed many breweries, Wisconsin producers were kind enough to load great quantities of the stuff onto boats and trains, and send it south for the thirsty Chicagoans. Chicago certainly had many breweries thereafter, but the Wisconsin producers gained a large permanent market share. Until less than 20 years ago, the best-selling beer in Chicago was Old Style, made by G. Heilman in LaCrosse, Wisconsin. (Today it's Bud.)

MikeK
07-17-2006, 16:40
I called one of the Barton distributors in WI today and they said it is still sold, but only in the 1.75L size. They thought it would not be too hard to find. I called a few stores around where my Dad would be traveling and 2 out of 6 did stock it. So contrary to some depressing rumors, it is alive and well in WI for the moment.

ratcheer
07-17-2006, 19:24
Oh, yes. Old Style was a very good mass market beer as long as they made it in La Crosse. I saw that brewery, one time, around 1980. A water tank or something was dressed as a giant can of Old Style and it dominated the scenery.

They made several other good beers, too.

Tim

CrispyCritter
07-17-2006, 19:35
Now I love a well matured rye (Saz-18, for example), but there is something utterly charming about a young (but sufficiently matured) rye. I really do think that young, but sufficiently matured, whiskeys are given short shrift here. A four year bourbon or rye is sometimes just what I want.

Exactly - as wonderful as a Saz 18 is, good ol' Rittenhouse BIB is a major favorite of mine. It's great straight up, and it's very mixable as well; a Sazerac or a Manhattan made with it is superb.

OGD BIB is also quite nice, as I've discovered; as much as I like the 114, the BIB is a nice change of pace. It also makes wonderful Manhattans!

CrispyCritter
07-17-2006, 19:53
Wisconsin = beer (or, at least, it used to)

Still is, actually (Point, or Rhinelander, for instance)... Rhinelander was a cheap+good favorite of mine back in my college days - it came in returnable longneck bottles, long after returnables had otherwise fallen out of fashion in Illinois.

The very first cargo that I hauled with the pickup truck I used to own was a case of Rhinelander. :slappin:

Other Wisconsin things:
Forests - especially in the northern part of the state! The Nicolet National Forest was a favorite family vacation spot when I was growing up.
Bratwurst - especially from Sheboygan. Some of the best brats I've had were served at the Road America racecourse in nearby Elkhart Lake.
Lakes - not just that big lake to the east, or the bigger lake to the north, but lots of smaller lakes inland as well.
Speed traps - Wisconsin is infamous for not merely writing speeding tickets, but placing speeders under arrest. Speed limits are often artificially low on back roads as well. Fortunately, I've avoided that Wisconsin phenomenon. :D
Rivalry with Illinois; Illinoisans use "cheesehead" as a derogatory term, while Wisconinites have terms like F.I.B. (F***ing Illinois B***ard) and FISHTAB (F***ing Illinois S***head Towing A Boat). This is further enhanced by the oldest rivalry in American football - the Chicago Bears vs. the Green Bay Packers.
Place names with odd pronunciations. See this site (http://misspronouncer.com/) for more examples. Many of these are of Amerindian origin, but there are also French and German names sprinkled among them.

cowdery
07-18-2006, 13:10
The people of Wisconsin resent the people of Illinois like the residents of any third-world country that depends on its more prosperous neighbor for tourism revenue. Trying to drive north out of the Chicago area on a Friday afternoon in summer is a nightmare, likewise driving south on Sunday night.

Everyone on the north side of Chicago has a summer home in Wisconsin while everyone on the south side has one in Michigan.

ratcheer
07-18-2006, 16:53
Still is, actually (Point, or Rhinelander, for instance)... Rhinelander was a cheap+good favorite of mine back in my college days - it came in returnable longneck bottles, long after returnables had otherwise fallen out of fashion in Illinois.

The very first cargo that I hauled with the pickup truck I used to own was a case of Rhinelander. :slappin:



Yes, but I never see those in this part of the country, anymore. I can remember when the beer selection in the South was dominated by Milwaukee and other WI beers. Especially Schlitz, Miller, and Pabst, but there were others, too.

Tim

chasking
07-19-2006, 08:40
Rhinelander---God, that brought back a lot of bad memories. :puke:

Besides Busch, Miller and Coors, just about all the other macrobrews are now owned by one company: Pabst, which is based in San Antonio (!) but according to reports will be moving to Chicago. Pabst owns the Old Style, Schlitz, Stroh's, Blatz, and Old Milwaukee labels, and a bunch of others too. As I understand it, Pabst itself no longer brews beer; its products are contract-brewed for it by Miller. Exceptions to the consolidation of second- and third-tier brands are Hamm's, which is actually owned by Miller, and Rolling Rock, recently acquired by Anheuser Busch. I think Leinenkugel's is still its own company, although they may be subtly connected to one of the big ones. I don't know that for sure though.

Notwithstanding consolidation, there are still differences between the various beers: at a party recently we had a blind taste test featuring an assortment of cheap American beers, including Pabst Blue Ribbon, Old Style, and Schlitz, and everyone detected differences in the flavors of those three Pabst-owned beers. (Schlitz is my favorite, of that rather bland genre.) And two of the other beers were Miller High Life and Hamm's, so five of the six beers (the other being Busch) were brewed by Miller, but they didn't taste the same.

hookfinger
07-19-2006, 11:15
Other Wisconsin things:


The Fishing Hall of Fame in Hayward.
Door County - One of the prettiest little stretches of scenery anywhere.

A couple of friends of mine will be joining me this year at KBF/Gazebo. Due to demand they will be bringing several bottles of Fleishman's Rye for sampling/trade/divesting.
You can always PM me if you want to be absolutely sure you don't miss out.

cowdery
07-19-2006, 14:16
Since the gazebo is within spitting distance of the Barton distillery, it amuses me that we have to go to Wisconsin to get one of their products.

wispotsill
10-01-2006, 02:51
I have only been up here 6 month's but the first thing I noticed was the wide array of rye available. Fleischman's is a great rye, it is one of my regular pours, but it is not a patch on Heaven Hill's Stephen Foster. Both are young ryes just bursting at the seams with spice and dry rye. Beam rye has a very big following up here, I have been told that it outsells Beam bourbon almost 2 to 1. Probably the best up here or anywhere in my book, is Old Overholt. I will tell you that If you like rye you are in luck up here, but in sad shape for corn whiskey, and Dickel. I have my supplier ordering a case next week.

gr8erdane
10-01-2006, 04:13
Be careful, there, Wisconsin might have laws against sippin your Dickel in public, eh?

BourbonJoe
10-01-2006, 07:24
A couple of friends of mine will be joining me this year at KBF/Gazebo.

What happened Hook? We were lookin fer ya.
Joe :usflag:

CrispyCritter
10-01-2006, 17:59
I have only been up here 6 month's but the first thing I noticed was the wide array of rye available. Fleischman's is a great rye...
I was up in the Milwaukee area last month, but the few liquor stores where I stopped to take a peek didn't have any Fleishchmann's Rye, just the blended whiskey.

Fortunately, Chicago is a bit of a rye stronghold in itself (Rittenhouse 80 and BIB, Sazerac Jr. and sometimes 18yo, Beam, KBD "Vintage Rye" bottlings, Old Overholt, and WT are all available around here, and Van Winkle rye sometimes shows up on shelves as well). As far as I know (based on other threads in this forum), Fleischmann's Rye is only available in Wisconsin.

luv2hunt
10-01-2006, 19:17
Well, I'd like to know where in Wisconsin it's hiding? I've looked in Beloit, Madison, Eau Claire and a few other small towns. Same story.....only the Blended stuff!?!?

Dawn

cowdery
10-01-2006, 23:06
I'm going to take a wild guess that wispotsill is in Door County (way north, on the lake) and that's where he's seeing Fleischmann's Rye. Am I right?

chasking
10-02-2006, 08:51
It is fortuitous that this thread has revitalized: I am taking a vacation to Door County next week, and one of my goals is to get some of the rye that is not available here. Fleishmann's is my number one target, but the reference to Stephen Foster is also intriguing. Can anyone identify specific places up that way where those ryes are available? We'll also be in the Sheboygan/Elkhart Lake area for a while.

chasking
10-19-2006, 02:45
Well, my search for rare Wisconsin-market-only rye whiskeys went better than I expected. East-central Wisconsin is indeed rye country. The first liquor store I checked in the first town we stopped in had both Fleischmann's and Steven Foster ryes, as well as Rittenhouse, Jim Beam, Old Overholt and Van Winkle Family Reserve. So if you're in Plymouth (near Sheboygan and Elkhart Lake) you can find those elusive ryes at Cut-Rate Liquors on Eastern Ave.

When was the last time you went into a place with a name like that and found six different brands of rye whiskey on the shelves? There might have been more; I was in a hurry and didn't take the time to look carefully at their entire selection. (Actually, they appeared to have a pretty good assortment.)

jburlowski
10-19-2006, 13:48
Well, my search for rare Wisconsin-market-only rye whiskeys went better than I expected. East-central Wisconsin is indeed rye country. The first liquor store I checked in the first town we stopped in had both Fleischmann's and Steven Foster ryes, as well as Rittenhouse, Jim Beam, Old Overholt and Van Winkle Family Reserve. So if you're in Plymouth (near Sheboygan and Elkhart Lake) you can find those elusive ryes at Cut-Rate Liquors on Eastern Ave.

When was the last time you went into a place with a name like that and found six different brands of rye whiskey on the shelves? There might have been more; I was in a hurry and didn't take the time to look carefully at their entire selection. (Actually, they appeared to have a pretty good assortment.)

I grew up in southern Wisconsin... you're making me homesick.

Gillman
10-19-2006, 14:56
I find this fascinating. This area apparently uniquely is a surviving outpost of straight rye whiskey, a kind of living fossil (don't misunderstand the metaphor, cheeseheads :)). At one time such a liquor choice was common in the North East generally and parts of the mid-West. I wonder what explains this remarkable survival. Good subject for an M.A. thesis, there is a discipline called historical geography I believe which might cover it..

Gary

CrispyCritter
10-21-2006, 01:34
Hmmm... sounds like a Wisconsin roadtrip is in the cards for me... as much of an F.I.B. [1] as I might be, I have quite a fondness for Wisconsin in general [2]. Rye makes it even better! ;)

[1] F***ing Illinois Bastard. One step shy of a FISHTAB (F***ing Illinois S*** Head Towing A Boat). But I can pronounce "Mequon," "Waukesha," and "Oconomowoc," and I know what a bubbler is. :slappin:

[2] Except for the Packers. I still haven't forgotten 1986, when Charles Martin picked up Bears quarterback Jim McMahon and spiked him. :hot: