View Full Version : Preserving open bottles...
tallmarc
10-23-2006, 13:28
So how do you all feel about weighing in on this:
I splurged this weekend on a bottle of GT Stagg and Saz 18yo Rye (and an armagnac, but that's another story). I am eager to try them both, but do not want to open two such precious bottles.
I know this is a tired topic, but I think it's time to revisit. What's the consenus on:
A) How long a bottle will be "fresh" after opening, and
B) Best way - if any - to maintain freshness.
Thanks!
FlashPuppy
10-23-2006, 13:45
Try here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3618&highlight=storing+bottles), and here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5136&highlight=storing+open+bottles), and here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115&highlight=storing+bottles), and of course here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4547&highlight=storing+bottles).
This has been discussed many times, I don't think there is really any new information to add. It's all been said.
tallmarc
10-23-2006, 13:55
On the contrary - it has been discussed so many times for a reason...
FlashPuppy
10-23-2006, 14:10
On the contrary - it has been discussed so many times for a reason...
Yes, there is a reason. Because people won't use the search function.
What would you like to know which I did not provide a link for?
Hee hee, and the tails puff up....
Many people say an open bottle will keep for years. I hardly have the best palate out there, but I think an open bottle will go stale or foul within a month or two. I always use wine preserver spray to keep them fresh. If you have the luxury, transfer the bottle to a 375ml when it gets that low. You want to minimize the amount of headspace in the bottle.
Cheers!
Mike, this is a point of view many share, but I just don't see it. Why wouldn't a partly filled barrel go "off" in a warm warehouse, isn't it the same thing?
Gary
If you have the luxury, transfer the bottle to a 375ml when it gets that low. You want to minimize the amount of headspace in the bottle.
Cheers!
excellent idea!
Mike, this is a point of view many share, but I just don't see it. Why wouldn't a partly filled barrel go "off" in warm warehouse, isn't it the same thing?
Gary
Excellent question Gary, I don't think I've heard that argument before. Perhaps the oxygen level in a half empty aging barrel as lower than a half empty bottle. When you pour from a bottle and recap it, the amount of oxygen trapped inside is constant. A barrel is constantly breathing, and loosing contents. In KY it "outgasses" water, in Scotland it "outgasses" alcohol. Perhaps this continual outgassing (and outward vapor pressure) carries away any oxygen in the barrel and keeps it from creeping back in appreciable amounts. Just a thought. It would be interesting to place a sensor inside an older barrel and see what is going on with the internal "atmosphere".
Going completely by taste, I definitely notice a difference in flavor as I go through a bottle. I feel a bottle opens up in nose and flavor through the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the bottle. The second half has a tendency to loose its better qualities and even become rather undesirable if not finished off quickly. To slow the deterioration I use the spray to remove oxygen from the bottle.
What I really need to do is a proper experiment. Open two identical bottles and sample each side by side over a year, topping one off with spray each time. I know I keep saying I will do this, one day I will.
Well, you may be right Mike.
That experiment is the only way really to know...
Gary
tallmarc
10-23-2006, 18:06
Glad I brought this question up. There was an intersting point raised afterall, that I believe was not breached before. Interesting to think that aging in a barrel might actually "hurt" the bourbon in a good way.
Thanks for raising the point, Gillman.
MikeK - I've always wondered about those nitrogen sprays, although I'm not sure my palate is trained well enough to discern the (likely) minute changes that occur in 1/3 - 1/2 empty bottle.
I've always wondered about those nitrogen sprays, although I'm not sure my palate is trained well enough to discern the (likely) minute changes that occur in 1/3 - 1/2 empty bottle.
Everyone's palate is different. Perhaps the change that occurs in an open bottle over time is perceived differently by each of us. Therefore some don't notice an issue and some do. You will need to judge for yourself. Open your bottles, enjoy them, and see if they develop any off qualities as they get low. If not, then all the better for you. :)
Virus_Of_Life
10-23-2006, 23:20
Going completely by taste, I definitely notice a difference in flavor as I go through a bottle. I feel a bottle opens up in nose and flavor through the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the bottle. The second half has a tendency to loose its better qualities and even become rather undesirable if not finished off quickly. To slow the deterioration I use the spray to remove oxygen from the bottle.
What I really need to do is a proper experiment. Open two identical bottles and sample each side by side over a year, topping one off with spray each time. I know I keep saying I will do this, one day I will.
I'd be interested to see if you don't like the non-sprayed bottle better. Personally I wouldn't spray anything into my bourbon I don't care how inert it is supposed to be - if isn't already in there then I don't want it there.
Maybe I am just incredibly humble, but I don't think my palate is consistent enough to ever know for sure why something tastes better one day than another. I remember thinking WLW was the greatest stuff on earth for the first couple of pours then halfway through I was very less impressed. Did it change, was it just my impression and interpretation of it, or was it the fact that I had it after something else?
Maybe I am just incredibly humble, but I don't think my palate is consistent enough to ever know for sure why something tastes better one day than another. I remember thinking WLW was the greatest stuff on earth for the first couple of pours then halfway through I was very less impressed. Did it change, was it just my impression and interpretation of it, or was it the fact that I had it after something else?
Could be any of the above. I agree that a given bourbon can taste different on a given day. What did I drink before it, what mood am I in, was it the first or 5th bourbon tonight, am I inside or outside, ... All have an effect.
I also predict that for a bottle that takes you 3-6 months to drink, that you will find the first 1/2 tastier than the last 1/4. If you find this to be a pattern, then you are observing what I am talking about. But of course everyones palate is different, so you may not.
Cheers!
barturtle
10-24-2006, 09:39
I'd be interested to see if you don't like the non-sprayed bottle better. Personally I wouldn't spray anything into my bourbon I don't care how inert it is supposed to be - if isn't already in there then I don't want it there.
Actually the air we breathe is composed of nearly 80% nitrogen gas it's the 20% oxygen that does the bad stuff to our whiskey. These sprays help to displace the oxygen.
I have never had a bottle "go bad" on me at home. I also don't tend to have more than maybe ten or so bottles open at a time. When I have tasted whiskey that had clearly been damaged by oxidation, it has been in bars where it was apparent that a tiny bit had sat in the bottom of the bottle for years. That is what you have to guard against. Some people will tell you they can taste a difference almost immediately. I'm not saying they can't, but I haven't had that experience.
As we've discussed elsewhere, there's also this psychological thing about "saving" that last "taste," especially if it is of something special. If you really want to do that, save one drink in the bottom of a bottle for an extended period of time (measured in years) you are taking a risk that when you do finally drink it (and why, after all that , would you?) you might be disappointed.
I also tend not to say "don't do this, don't do that" even when things are proposed that I would never do, because I know there is a kind of obsession in this hobby of ours that manifests itself in different ways with different people.
The inert sprays work well. I swear by them. I have about 40 bottles of open smsw, bourbon, tequila, or rum open that I spray between uses. It's especially useful in tequila where the agave taste fades when it oxidizes.
tallmarc
10-27-2006, 12:12
Personally I wouldn't spray anything into my bourbon I don't care how inert it is supposed to be - if isn't already in there then I don't want it there.
I assume you're aware that we're not talking about a liquid-type spray, we're talking about a can of compressed nitrogen gas.
Virus_Of_Life
10-27-2006, 14:11
OK!!! For the record, yes I know it is nitrogen gas, I know the atmosphere is made up largely of nitrogen and I know nitrogen is inert. I am also aware there are other things in the atmosphere such a argon, helium, cookies, pizzas and fish tacos, etc.
It would just be my personal obsessive compulsive preference to not spray it into my bourbon regardless.
It is in a can/container of somekind that is manufactured in a facilitiy of some kind which may manufacture other things which could use chemicals of some kind.... etc. Get it? This is wear my OCD comes into play?... Don't try to understand it, just accept it and move on. Thanks.
FlashPuppy
10-27-2006, 16:17
OK!!! For the record, yes I know it is nitrogen gas, I know the atmosphere is made up largely of nitrogen and I know nitrogen is inert. I am also aware there are other things in the atmosphere such a argon, helium, cookies, pizzas and fish tacos, etc.
It would just be my personal obsessive compulsive preference to not spray it into my bourbon regardless.
It is in a can/container of somekind that is manufactured in a facilitiy of some kind which may manufacture other things which could use chemicals of some kind.... etc. Get it? This is wear my OCD comes into play?... Don't try to understand it, just accept it and move on. Thanks.
:stickpoke: So you don't like it then, eh?:stickpoke:
Nebraska
10-27-2006, 17:24
I would agree, drink the damn bourbon. Preserving, sterilizing, neutering it isn't a part of the experience. Drink it, bourbon don't keep, as someone else here has said.
tallmarc
10-27-2006, 18:28
I am also aware there are other things in the atmosphere such a argon, helium, cookies, pizzas and fish tacos, etc.
Too funny!!
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