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Gillman
10-24-2006, 10:54
How would you do this?

While there are many ways to go about it, here is my dream bourbon:

- 6-10 years old

- rye-recipe

- char-influenced but retaining distillery (grain) character

- heavy body, soft on the palate with minimal burn

- bonded or 100 proof

- fruity overlay (dark fruit such as cherries or plums, maybe oranges too)

No whiskey available today quite meets these requirements. A cross between ETL and Stagg might do it, or between ETL and NDOG. A whiskey like McKenna SB comes close but it does not have a fruity taste such as one finds in many pre-1980 bourbons.

Gary

barturtle
10-24-2006, 11:18
Your specs sound fairly similar to what I might do.

I think I would take some 12yo low-rye (OC/Stagg/ER) whiskey and blend in some 7-9yo High-rye (OGD). I'd shoot for a mid 100s proof.

Although a while back I did a blend of ORVW 15 and some WT rye and it was one of the best drinks I've ever had...

I think this is much like a Four Roses approach to bourbon making. Of course Wild Turkey does similar things by mixing several ages to achieve its profiles as well. I don't think perfection is best achieved by using one recipe at one age and one proof...but then again I enjoy tasting the results of the distillers art that is achieved by using the method I just spoke ill of.

I guess given the choice between perfection and variety, I'll take variety.

Virginia Gent
10-24-2006, 12:25
How would you do this?

While there are many ways to go about it, here is my dream bourbon:

- 6-10 years old

- rye-recipe

- char-influenced but retaining distillery (grain) character

- heavy body, soft on the palate with minimal burn

- bonded or 100 proof

- fruity overlay (dark fruit such as cherries or plums, maybe oranges too)

No whiskey available today quite meets these requirements. A cross between ETL and Stagg might do it, or between ETL and NDOG. A whiskey like McKenna SB comes close but it does not have a fruity taste such as one finds in many pre-1980 bourbons.

Gary

Nice! Sign me up for a bottle...no, a BARREL of that!

Gillman
10-24-2006, 12:49
Just to clarify, I am not soliciting ideas for vatting, but simply what the taste of your ideal bourbon is. I mentioned examples of "crosses" to give an idea what my ideal taste is since no bourbon on the market quite does it.

If you could commission, say BuffaloTrace to make your ideal bourbon, would would it taste like after maturation?

Gary

BourbonJoe
10-24-2006, 13:25
I agree with Gary with one exception. It should be sold at a price not exceding Evan Williams Black Label. Sign me up for 3 cases. :rolleyes:
Joe :usflag:

barturtle
10-24-2006, 14:00
Mine were examples as well, but maybe I came across to specific and I definitely didn't say what flavors I was going for:
I was using the low rye as I think it handles more age better than they high rye. This portion would be used to add the barrel notes. The high rye would be younger and would be there to bring in all the fruit. Each one would be taken to the proof at which it displays the desired character best and then they would be blended to the desired balance. Hopefully this would give me a good oak and vanilla bass with a dark fruit (maybe apricot, too) overlay.

How about I take another track entirely?

I think I would have them to distill to my own recipe and see how it comes out. But then I'm torn between choices. Should it be an 80+% corn, a barely 51% corn, a Lincoln-county processed Rye (or wheat).

I think ultimately I'd end up going for the high rye, as I'm impatient and believe that the high rye can be brought to a high standard quicker.

Since I would have to fully spec the recipe, it would go like this:
51% corn
29%rye
10% malted rye(kinda cheating to get both exra malt and extra rye in there)
10% barley malt
distilled to 104 proof and entered into the barrel undiluted. Why 104? Well I had to pick a number and i wanted it going in at a low proof so I could bottle after aging uncut at a proof that won't be so high I'm tempted to cut it when I pour a glass. With any luck this would be ready to be bottled at 7yo. I guess I'd have to spec the barrel too, gimme a nice heavy #4 char. Maybe I should throw all caution to the wind and have it put through a vat of sugar maple charcoal.

Somebody show me the way to a still, I'm ready to try it:lol:

cowdery
10-25-2006, 12:04
The thing I would do, while admirable on one level, is despicable on another. I would insist on barrels made from trees that are at least 250 years old.

ratcheer
10-25-2006, 17:01
My dream bourbon would have the flavor of Elmer T. Lee with the elegance of Blanton's. Since they are already the same whiskey, it should be possible.

Tim

Nebraska
10-25-2006, 17:33
I've been obsessed with the nose of OC 12yo 90 for the last month or so. And I've had that an alternate obsession with the taste of OCPR. I've sat thinking and wishing many a night what a wonderful thing if OCPR had the nose of OC 12yo 90. I Gillmanized them this evening...and that would be very close to my idea of a dream bourbon.

TimmyBoston
10-26-2006, 04:49
My dream bourbon would be about 50 bottles, I couldn't live without the variety. :grin:

All I can say though is for a start it would probably have to be a four grain, of around 105-120 proof, at least 10 years old, rich and smooth.

NorCalBoozer
10-26-2006, 10:58
My dream bourbon, that does not exist, would be a circa 1950's bottle of VOF 12 y.o. unfiltered, barrel strength. It would be incredible to be able to play with such a bourbon at barrel strength.

Beyond that, my tastes have moved more towards Rye, probably for the reason that you mention Gary, that the older bourbons seemed to be fruitier compared to today. Today I get a lot more "heat", which is probably due to the younger wood.


I would basically want a low entry proof, very old wood barrel. Probably a straight rye, or a heavily ryed bourbon. aged about 12 years. I guess that pretty much is a Wild Turkey 12 y.o. gold foil.

I do wish WT would start to offer some more high end offerings.....I think they could really make some exceptional specialty bourbons. The Rare Breed WT-03 (i think that's the current one) is awesome. Considering it's high proof and flavor profile, it an amazing purchase to what? mid $30??

NorCalBoozer
10-26-2006, 11:01
The thing I would do, while admirable on one level, is despicable on another. I would insist on barrels made from trees that are at least 250 years old.

Well it wouldn't be so bad if the barrels could be re-used. Beyond the rule that states that to be called bourbon, the barrels have to be new, how many times could an old barrel be reused, do you figure?

You couldn't call it bourbon after the first go round, but it sure as hell would still be good whiskey.

Gillman
10-26-2006, 11:24
Good point, the old wood would "keep going", for a time anyway.

My understanding is barrels are re-used many times in Scotland and Ireland to age whisk(e)y, sometimes extending over a 50 year period or more.

Based on tasting older whiskeys, I think the use of older trees then to fashion barrels resulted in a deeper, more spearmint-like taste from the wood, more of the wood gums got in and they had a different taste than younger wood.

Since wood contributes so much to a whiskey, using a very old tree for barrel-making would impact the flavor quite a bit.

Today, the barrel wood sometimes tastes of "new fresh wood".

Gary

TnSquire
10-26-2006, 13:54
[QUOTE=NorCalBoozer]Well it wouldn't be so bad if the barrels could be re-used. Beyond the rule that states that to be called bourbon, the barrels have to be new, how many times could an old barrel be reused, do you figure?

Years. Until they literally fall apart, ala Scotch.

brockagh
11-14-2006, 08:13
In Ireland, they mainly use first and second fill barrels. They rarely (or maybe never) use more than third fill.

Some Scottish distillers use older barrels, particularly in blends.