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Drammer
11-03-2006, 06:27
Hey there,

I'm Ivo from the Netherlands, and recently I've become interested in America's Native Spirit.

I was referred here by a guy from a scotch whisky forum, TNBourbon was his name-o (ok stupid joke)

Anyway.

I've been drinking scotch for a few years and now I feel the need to expand to other firewaters, I've made myself a selection of what's available here in the low countries.


Elijah Craig 12 YO 28.95
Blanton's special Reserve 29.95
Woodfort Reserve Distiller's Select 36.95
Eagle Rare 10 YO 30,95
Wild Turkey 8 YO litre 32,95
Makers Mark 5 YO litre 35.95

All prices are in euro.

I think makers mark is too young, but I think it deserves a chance, also: I've heard that Wild Turkey Rare Breed is supposed to be really good, but the best offering here seems to be the 8YO, so it will have to do.

I'm particulary interested in the top three, I think I'm gonna buy woodfort, and either blantons or elijah craig, but I'm not sure yet and maybe one of you can change my mind on this.

I'm looking forward to reading your comments! :grin:

barturtle
11-03-2006, 07:21
Welcome Ivo.

I noticed your selection is fairly limited locally. It may help to know that there a several excellent store in Europe that ship. I'm not sure of any good shops in The Netherlands, but I do know of one in Battice, Belgium (http://www.corman-collins.be/). I'm not sure how much you travel, but this may be an option if you wish to avoid shipping.

I'm a big fan of the Eagle Rare, but have never had the Blantons SR (that is the green label 80 proof, right?)

Best of luck in your tastings, you've found the right place to find all the information you could ever want.

Drammer
11-03-2006, 07:46
Welcome Ivo.

I noticed your selection is fairly limited locally. It may help to know that there a several excellent store in Europe that ship. I'm not sure of any good shops in The Netherlands, but I do know of one in Battice, Belgium (http://www.corman-collins.be/). I'm not sure how much you travel, but this may be an option if you wish to avoid shipping.

I'm a big fan of the Eagle Rare, but have never had the Blantons SR (that is the green label 80 proof, right?)

Best of luck in your tastings, you've found the right place to find all the information you could ever want.
Thanks for your reply.

Battice is not too far over the border, thanks for the tip! I dont think I'll be going there alot but I will be in the neighborhood at least once a year, as my uncle lives in Germany closeby, roughly where Germany, Holland and Belgium meet.
It's a good 3 hour drive one way...

Anyway, the special reserve indeed has the green label and indeed it's 80 proof. The picture at my online supplier shows the normal one, but I'm sure that's a mistake.

I was under the impression that Elijah Craig, Blantons and Woodfort Reserve were good choices, especially in the variants I've chosen, at least to begin with, or do you disagree?

Full list of available stuff:

Blanton Special Reserve Bourbon - years ( 0,7 ltr, 40%)
Eagle Rare 10 years ( 0,7 ltr, 50.5%)
Early Times Private Stock 4 years ( 1,0 ltr, 40%)
Elijah Craig 12 years ( 0,7 ltr, 47%)
Four Roses 8 years ( 0,7 ltr, 40%)
Jack Daniel's Black 6 years ( 1,0 ltr, 40%)
Maker's Mark - hele liter 5 years ( 0,7 ltr, 45%)
Rebel Yell 4 years ( 0,7 ltr, 40%)
Wild Turkey 4 years ( 1,0 ltr, 43.4%)
Wild Turkey 8 years ( 1,0 ltr, 50.5%)
Woodfort Reserve - Distiller's Select - Bourbon - years ( 0,7 ltr, 45.2%)

Now this is just what's avaiable at my favorite scotch supplier, there may be other stores around, but I haven't really looked yet.

Gillman
11-03-2006, 07:55
Just curious about the 8 year old Four Roses, I thought in Europe there was the single barrel 86 proof (not 100 as in Kentucky) and the no-age-expression (therefore probably 4 years old) 80 proof Four Roses.

In Kentucky now there is the said 80 proof Four Roses, 100 proof SB, and the new Small Batch 90 proof I believe it is.

Where does the 8 year old version fit in, is that a current bottling for export only?

Note also how ages are stated for many whiskeys where they carry no age in the U.S. This is interesting (e.g. is all Jack Black 6 years old even in the U.S.)? I wonder if some national laws in the E.U. require the ages to be mentioned. If not, maybe this is done for marketing reasons and maybe the versions are different than as sold in the U.S., e.g., I thought Jack Black was partly at least 4-5 years old in the U.S.

Gary

Nebraska
11-03-2006, 07:56
There are people here that would be VERY envious of you having that 4 roses available to you there. I know it's the 80 proof, but it's still a really good pour.

Gillman
11-03-2006, 08:00
Also, apparently three versions Mark (regular 80 proof, 8 years old green label 80 proof, and 86 proof SB (if still available, it was some years ago).

Gary

Drammer
11-03-2006, 08:37
The age statements are done by the shop, the labels here don't state the age any more or less than other countries.

I have no idea about the four roses 8 YO.
It seems to me that either the age statement is wrong, or the standard bottling is already 8 YO because it looks like the normal four roses to me.

check it out here (http://www.whiskyvanzuylen.nl/whiskydetail.cfm?selwhisky=85)

Looks like yer ordinary yeller label to me.

Gillman
11-03-2006, 09:31
The information gathered by the shop may be accurate though. I have seen similar statements, placed e.g., on shelf tags by the LCBO in Ontario (liquor retailing monopoly) and undoubtedly this was provided by the manufacturer or wholesale supplier. E.g. I recall once that a merchant's bottling of an Islay whisky was indicated as being 5 years old even though the label did not say. I think in fact most Maker's Mark is a minimum of 5 years year old, so that information is accurate. As for JD Black, I can't say, possibly B-F ensures that what is sent overseas is at least 6 years old.

As for Four Roses at 8 years barrel age, I don't know, but mention was made of a green label version at that age.

Gary

jeff
11-03-2006, 09:40
Wow, Tim (TNBourbon) has been publically outed as a scotch drinker...the shame! Dismissal proceedings shall commence immediately!

Welcome Drammer :toast:

Hedmans Brorsa
11-03-2006, 10:07
As for Four Roses at 8 years barrel age, I don't know, but mention was made of a green label version at that age.

Gary

I have never heard of a green label Four Roses. Who mentioned that, Gary? A store in Canada?

Welcome to the forum, Ivo! If you´re not already familiar with their existence, Whiskykoning is a good Dutch whiskyshop who does mail order. I´ve ordered from them and found them to be very good to deal with.

http://www.whiskykoning.nl/

Gillman
11-03-2006, 10:19
I thought someone stated that FR has a green label version that is 8 years old but that the shop's photo showed the normal yellow-label version possibly in error. I see now though it was my error and what was referred to was Blanton's Special Reserve, sorry.

I take it from what Lennaert is saying that there is no green label FR.

Therefore, the contents of the regular FR must be 8 years old assuming the shop's information is correct. I don't see why it would not be since the other ages stated (e.g. for Maker's) seem, um, on the mark..

Gary

Hedmans Brorsa
11-03-2006, 11:55
No problem, Gary! You just had me a little intrigued for awhile. :)

Incidentally, I really dig the FR home page. Not only do they list all their products, they also clearly state where each bottling can be found.

Drammer
11-03-2006, 12:01
I have never heard of a green label Four Roses. Who mentioned that, Gary? A store in Canada?

Welcome to the forum, Ivo! If you´re not already familiar with their existence, Whiskykoning is a good Dutch whiskyshop who does mail order. I´ve ordered from them and found them to be very good to deal with.

http://www.whiskykoning.nl/

Ah, a whole new world of possibilities opened :bowdown:

check out the stock: http://www.whiskykoning.nl/assorti1.asp?menu=506

Gillman
11-03-2006, 12:20
Yes including platinum and black label Four Roses but those are sold in Japan only it seems.

By the way Jim Rutledge will be presenting Four Roses whiskeys at the Richmond Road Liquor Barn tomorrow in Lexington, KY from 3:00-6:00 p.m.

Gary

cowdery
11-03-2006, 13:55
I would say you have some pretty good choices at retail, Drammer, especially to get you started. I would rank them in the following order. Not necessarily in quality order but in "interest" order. Omissions don't necessarily mean don't try them (try everything), just that I rank them below these:

Blanton's Special Reserve Bourbon - years ( 0,7 ltr, 40%)
Eagle Rare 10 years ( 0,7 ltr, 50.5%)
Four Roses 8 years ( 0,7 ltr, 40%)
Elijah Craig 12 years ( 0,7 ltr, 47%)
Woodford Reserve - Distiller's Select - Bourbon - years ( 0,7 ltr, 45.2%)
Wild Turkey 8 years ( 1,0 ltr, 50.5%)

The Blanton's and Eagle Rare are from the same distillery, Buffalo Trace, and should be similar. I find Blanton's a good starting point for scotch drinkers. Each of the other four are from different distilleries, so it's a good survey. Personally, I tend to drink Four Roses when I'm in Europe because it's widely available, very reliable and usually a good value.

TNbourbon
11-03-2006, 15:47
Wow, Tim (TNBourbon) has been publically outed as a scotch drinker...the shame! Dismissal proceedings shall commence immediately!

Welcome Drammer :toast:

Welcome, Ivo, glad you're considering 'crossing over the pond' palate-wise. And, Jeff, for your info :smiley_acbt: -- and I'm sure Ivo will confirm this -- is that most of my posts 'over there' are in support of and education for would-be and not-yet bourbon drinkers.:grin: (And I've read, Jeff, that you consider Dickel both a vegetable AND mineral!:rolleyes: )
:lol: Honestly, of course, while my available lineup is probably 10-15:1 American straight whiskey to Scotch, I've been known to find a single malt or two that I really enjoy. Currently, my favorite open SMSW is a Batch 16 Aberlour A'bunadh cask strength (119.2 proof).

barturtle
11-03-2006, 16:03
Hey! I just realized that that's the Eagle Rare 10yo is the 101 that has been discontinued. I'm more than just a big fan of it, it's one of my all time favs.

I didn't mean to imply originally that the other choices were bad, just stating an opinion about one in particular. The others you listed are each fine whiskies. I drink the WT 101 we get here (the closest to the 8yo we get) quite regularly and enjoy the EC12 fairly often as well.

One of the things to note is that the Early Times you get there is a bourbon, the one we get in the US is not.

Drammer
11-03-2006, 16:04
Welcome, Ivo, glad you're considering 'crossing over the pond' palate-wise. And, Jeff, for your info :smiley_acbt: -- and I'm sure Ivo will confirm this -- is that most of my posts 'over there' are in support of and education for would-be and not-yet bourbon drinkers.:grin: (And I've read, Jeff, that you consider Dickel both a vegetable AND mineral!:rolleyes: )
:lol: Honestly, of course, while my available lineup is probably 10-15:1 American straight whiskey to Scotch, I've been known to find a single malt or two that I really enjoy. Currently, my favorite open SMSW is a Batch 16 Aberlour A'bunadh cask strength (119.2 proof).

Sure I can confirm this Tim, and why should someone feel ashamed by their taste?
(I've got Batch #14 underway as we speak btw....)

After all, the spirits we all enjoy are the same at heart, an invention by Irish monks, brought over to various parts of the world, and refined to suit the tastes of the native people. So Bourbon, Whiskey and Whisky are all related to one another and like the people of the world, are all different and alike at the same time.

I find this great!

-end hippy talk- :smiley_acbt:

Gillman
11-03-2006, 16:52
Very well put.

Gary

mythrenegade
11-06-2006, 20:31
Elijah Craig 12 YO 28.95
Blanton's special Reserve 29.95
Woodfort Reserve Distiller's Select 36.95
Eagle Rare 10 YO 30,95
Wild Turkey 8 YO litre 32,95
Makers Mark 5 YO litre 35.95

...

I'm particulary interested in the top three, I think I'm gonna buy woodfort, and either blantons or elijah craig, but I'm not sure yet and maybe one of you can change my mind on this.

I'm looking forward to reading your comments! :grin:

Welcome to straight bourbon! Unsurprisingly your english is excellent (I've met a number of people from the Netherlands, and they all amaze me with their language skills.)

That's actually a pretty decent little selection you have available to you.

The best two in that list are the Blanton's and the Eagle Rare. The Wild Turkey and Maker's Mark are roughly equivalent (don't be fooled by the age) but are very different in their approach to bourbon. I personally prefer the Maker's Mark to the Wild Turkey, others here will have the exact opposite opinion.

The Woodford Reserve has a very nice bottle. Unfortunately, the bottle is the best part of that bourbon. It has a very bland flavor, and is one of the only bottles of bourbon I've ever bought that I regretted purchasing.

Elijah Craig 12 year old seems very inconsistent. Some people love it, some people hate it. I have only bought one bottle, and I quite liked it. I would buy it again, but I would put it lower on your purchase list. Perhaps after you've tried the Blanton's and Eagle Rare.

If it were my money, I would buy them in this order: Blanton's, Eagle Rare, Maker's Mark, Elijah Craig, Wild Turkey. I would not buy the Woodford Reserve.

Joel

mythrenegade
11-06-2006, 20:39
Looking at that shop you linked to you have the "regular" Blanton's Single Barrel available there, as well as Elijah Craig 18 year old (good stuff!). Both of those are fairly expensive, but the Elmer T. Lee is only 33 euros, which is a good buy based on the prices you've shared. Well worth picking up. Knob Creek isn't bad either, and is only 39 euros.

Joel

Drammer
11-07-2006, 00:55
Welcome to straight bourbon! Unsurprisingly your english is excellent (I've met a number of people from the Netherlands, and they all amaze me with their language skills.)

That's actually a pretty decent little selection you have available to you.

The best two in that list are the Blanton's and the Eagle Rare. The Wild Turkey and Maker's Mark are roughly equivalent (don't be fooled by the age) but are very different in their approach to bourbon. I personally prefer the Maker's Mark to the Wild Turkey, others here will have the exact opposite opinion.

The Woodford Reserve has a very nice bottle. Unfortunately, the bottle is the best part of that bourbon. It has a very bland flavor, and is one of the only bottles of bourbon I've ever bought that I regretted purchasing.

Elijah Craig 12 year old seems very inconsistent. Some people love it, some people hate it. I have only bought one bottle, and I quite liked it. I would buy it again, but I would put it lower on your purchase list. Perhaps after you've tried the Blanton's and Eagle Rare.

If it were my money, I would buy them in this order: Blanton's, Eagle Rare, Maker's Mark, Elijah Craig, Wild Turkey. I would not buy the Woodford Reserve.

Joel
Thanks for your compliment and input Joel,

Us dutchies speak english so well because nobody else speaks our language but us :rolleyes:. And we're really a small country, one that likes to think it's important but really we aren't I think.
I also speak a little german, and a little french, the french i'm trying to improve actively, and the german, well, I just don't care :lol:

Everybody here seems to like the blanton's, so I'll certainkly go for that,
and I still don't know about the second I want to try.

I have heard good things and also bad things about EC and MM, so I'll skip them for the next time, I think I'll go for Eagle Rare because it's from Buffalo Trace, and those guys know how to make proper bourbon, so I've been told. :grin:


Looking at that shop you linked to you have the "regular" Blanton's Single Barrel available there, as well as Elijah Craig 18 year old (good stuff!). Both of those are fairly expensive, but the Elmer T. Lee is only 33 euros, which is a good buy based on the prices you've shared. Well worth picking up. Knob Creek isn't bad either, and is only 39 euros.

Joel
The whiskykoning site you mean?

So the single barrel blanton's is better than the special reserve? (I already thought the "speciality" was the marketing of it :D)

Elmer T. Lee, will look into it!

Maybe I should organise a bourbon tasting here, there is not much interest for this spirit in my country, most people drink beer, wine and mixes, and the connoisseur types drink scotch and/or cognac.

Drammer
11-22-2006, 07:04
Hey guys it's me again!

I've been busy with studying and stuff so I haven't been able to post alot.

Today I bought on impulse a bottle of makers mark, so when I crack it open later tonight i'll post how I like it.

nor02lei
11-22-2006, 14:40
I thought someone stated that FR has a green label version that is 8 years old but that the shop's photo showed the normal yellow-label version possibly in error.

Gary

Gary,

There is FR green label! At least I got 2 of those in my bunker. My German source told me it was sold only a couple of years in the 80-is. I saw this in the display case at 4 roses in Cox creek when in Kentucky this September. I did ask about the green label and they confirmed that it was sold just a couple of years in the 80-is.

Leif

Gillman
11-22-2006, 16:24
Thanks Leif!

In fact I did (I think) misread the post in question, so it is an odd reversal that there is, or was, a green label FR.

Gary

Drammer
11-26-2006, 03:12
Well, after tasting the makers mark, and finishing about half the bottle, I can safely conclude that I dislike it.

I can't really put my finger on it, let alone put it into words but I think I need to go for a smoother kind of bourbon.

I stumbled across this bottle for a good price so I figured "What the hey", but it turned out to be a bad buy for me. It ain't half bad but it's not my taste.

Hedmans Brorsa
11-26-2006, 05:42
Gary,

There is FR green label! At least I got 2 of those in my bunker. My German source told me it was sold only a couple of years in the 80-is.Leif

Wow! Can you tell us more about this item, Leif?

In what way does it differ from other FR releases?

There´s a new European version of FRSB, by the way. It´s 100 proof but the same type of bottle as the earlier 86 proof bottling. I have not opened it yet.

Hedmans Brorsa
11-26-2006, 05:45
WI think I need to go for a smoother kind of bourbon.

Smoother than MM!? I think you´re in trouble! :grin:

Having said that, I have to admit that my latest bottle of MM red was unusually non-smooth (in a positive sense), so maybe the character of it is going through changes?

Drammer
11-26-2006, 11:56
Smoother than MM!? I think you´re in trouble! :grin:

Having said that, I have to admit that my latest bottle of MM red was unusually non-smooth (in a positive sense), so maybe the character of it is going through changes?

Well, I'm not sure if smoother is the right term, like I said I find it hard to put it into words.

nor02lei
11-26-2006, 12:09
Wow! Can you tell us more about this item, Leif?

In what way does it differ from other FR releases?

There´s a new European version of FRSB, by the way. It´s 100 proof but the same type of bottle as the earlier 86 proof bottling. I have not opened it yet.

Lennart,

It is 86 proof and a single barrel and probably just an earlier version of the currant 86proof SB. Interesting to hear that we have got a 100 proof FRSB in Europe now!

Leif

Drammer
11-27-2006, 03:45
Lennart,

It is 86 proof and a single barrel and probably just an earlier version of the currant 86proof SB. Interesting to hear that we have got a 100 proof FRSB in Europe now!

Leif

No offence, but maybe this discussion is best continued in a seperate thread?

Hedmans Brorsa
11-27-2006, 10:22
You obviously plan to keep this thread going for a long time? ;)

No offence taken. I have PM:ed Leif.

Drammer
11-27-2006, 10:44
You obviously plan to keep this thread going for a long time? ;)

No offence taken. I have PM:ed Leif.

I know what you mean, but it's better for both parties I think