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Gillman
02-01-2007, 07:06
Those looking for a local snack to accompany a whiskey (somehow, bourbon and water iced seems to go best with these) might consider one or more of the following, some of which are classics, some of which are barely known (I suspect) outside their immediate area. I invite people to comment or suggest additions for the list:

- Made-Rite's loose meat sandwich from Iowa and beyond

- Beef on a Weck from Western New York State (weck is a salty, crusty roll)

- Bierock from Kansas (beef and kraut in a pocket of bread)

- Runza from Nebraska (similar to above)

- Club Sandwich (originally associated with Manhattan)

- Cuban Sandwich (Miami classic, pork and ham sliced thinly with pickle on a crusty roll)

- Hoagie (Philadelphia classic mixed deli meats sandwich, origin of the name unclear, may refer to a sandwich made for men who worked on nearby Hog Island)

- Horseshoe and the variant, Pony Shoe Sandwich (specialty of Springfield, Illinois)

- Hot Brown (turkey sandwich specialty of Louisville and environs)

- Mufuletta (New Orleans specialty)

- Cheese Steak (Philly again, everyone knows this one)

- Peameal Bacon Sandwich (Ontario)

- Smoked Meat Sandwich on rye (Montreal)

- Corned Beef and Pastrami on rye (New York, elsewhere).

- pork tenderloin sandwich (Mid-west, apparently developed from the European schnitzel)

- pork chop sandwich (Mid-west)

Many of the above were drawn from Internet research.

Gary

Edward_call_me_Ed
02-01-2007, 07:16
- Runza from Nebraska (similar to above)

-Gary

Yea, Runza!

Though I have to admit that I always order either a cheese burger or a bacon cheese burger when I go to the restautant that bears that name. Unfortunately, they don't server bourbon.

Ed

Gillman
02-01-2007, 07:19
Can you describe it, Ed, how do you recall it? Were there different versions?

Point taken about likely non-bourbon availability for many of these but as Chuck said, it is easy usually, given some knowledge of the dish, to make them at home.

Gary

Edward_call_me_Ed
02-01-2007, 07:40
Basically, it is a nice brown oven baked roll with ground beef and cabbage filling. I don't recall any spices, though I am sure there are some. To be honest, I haven't had very many. Like I said, I much prefer the restaurant's burgers. Not to mention their onion rings! If they replaced the cabbage with onions, or better, spring onions, my allegiance might change. But then they wouldn't be runzas.

Ed

Gillman
02-01-2007, 08:41
Thanks, the Internet source where I found this said its origin is likely Russian or other East European.

Gary

TNbourbon
02-01-2007, 09:38
A breakfast 'sandwich' of a kind -- thought certainly enjoyed and enjoyable 24/7 -- in the South is the ubiquitous country ham and biscuit. It is essentially a staple food from Virginia to the Mississippi River. Variations are the almost-as-universal sausage and biscuit, (country fried) steak and biscuit and chicken and biscuit.
But salt-cured country ham seems to be native to, and identifiable with, the South -- I know I never had it growing up in Michigan, and took a few years to acquire the taste after moving to Tennessee.
And then, of course, there's the pork barbecue sandwich...

smokinjoe
02-01-2007, 10:02
If you go to the Master's Golf Tournament, you'll get to taste another staple from around the South. The pimento cheese sandwich. Served on plain 'ol white bread. The squishy kind. Wrapped in green wax paper, it'll set you back $1.

JOE

Gillman
02-01-2007, 11:47
Now that sounds good with a cold bourbon and water!

Gary

doubleblank
02-01-2007, 12:13
Be sure and add a BBQ Beef Sandwich from Texas to the list. It can come either as sliced brisket or chopped with a fair amount of sauce on it inside a hamburger bun. I've seen it on BBQ menus from VA to CA and they usually say "Texas Style BBQ Beef Sandwich". And yes, any kind of BBQ goes good with bourbon.

A local BBQ joint called Goode Co makes their sandwiches with thick sliced jalapeno/cheese bread.

Randy

Gillman
02-01-2007, 12:28
Thanks Randy, sounds great, we are in the field of "the mop". :)

That new issue of Imbibe I mentioned reviews some happening Texas (yes) wineries. I assume you know of same.

When bourbon palls (hardly ever, true) a chilled Texas chard or other fine white sounds like it would go well with this delicacy.

Gary

Gillman
02-01-2007, 12:51
Good ones Tim, thanks. I liked the mini versions of the first type you mentioned which you can get at the Samplers.

That ham by the way is nothing more (in transplanted, therefore somewhat altered form) to old English cured ham. Long dry-salted or brined (the former was always finer), usually smoked too, wrapped in muslin or similar, developing a characteristic natural mold and deep red color. Local porcine nourishment (peanuts, acorns, whey, slops) would give a particular character as did the smoking materials. It's from the old country (not mine, but never mind :)).

Gary

cowdery
02-01-2007, 13:01
All of the following are Chicago staples:

The Chicago-Style Hot Dog, which is a hot dog in a steamed poppyseed bun, topped with yellow mustard, bright green relish, chopped onions, tomato wedges, a kosher-style pickle spear, a couple of spicy sport peppers and a dash of celery salt. (and never, under any circumstances, catsup.)

The Maxwell Street Polish Sausage Sandwich, which is a griddle-cooked polish on a hot dog bun, topped with sauteed onions and sweet peppers.

The Maxwell Street Bone-in Pork Chop Sandwich, which is served on a hamburger bun, also topped with sauteed onions and sweet peppers.

The Italian Beef Sandwich, which is thin-sliced roast beef, steeped in a spicy beef broth, topped with either sauteed sweet peppers or hot giardiniera, served on a crusty Italian roll, and either "dipped" (the whole sandwich briefly plunged back into the beef broth) or "dry" (i.e., not dipped).

The Italian Combo Sandwich, same as above but with a Italian sausage link nestled beneath the beef.

Gillman
02-01-2007, 13:11
Wow, that all sounds really good. There is a seemingly casual or random quality to the garnishes on that hot dog yet (I know) they are by now very traditional. One wonders how these things start and take root.

The website (I will try to find it again) that listed many of the sandwiches I mentioned offered an explanation for the origin of the term, "hot dog" I have never seen before although it also mentioned the better known theories (e.g., the illustrator who (comically of course) placed a daschund in a hot dog bun, could not remember the spelling or name, "frankfurter" and so called it a, "hot dog"). The lesser known tale is some Yalies in New Haven in 1894-'95 used to call nearby sausage stands that sold franks in a bun, "dog stands". From that, the term hot dog acquired casual use on the campus, and then beyond. This pre-dates of course the 1904 St. Louis World's Exposition where the hot dog is said to have been invented or at least popularised (the latter may still be true). The website quotes a Harvard magazine of 1895 specifically referring to students "munching hot dogs".

In German-influenced Kitchener, Ontario, a German-style sausage has been served for years in a split bun that is not a commercial hot dog bun but bears some resemblances to it. It is a sort of biscuit in fact, a firmer, split biscuit. This seems to me the ancestor of the dish and the sausage stands in Cambridge, MA in the 1890's were probably run by immigrants who would have specialised in such fare -or so I infer, and later more commercial versions emerged.

Gary

cowdery
02-01-2007, 13:27
Some history of the Chicago-style hot dog is here. (http://www.viennabeef.com/culture/chgodoghistory.asp)

Gillman
02-01-2007, 14:54
Thanks for this. I've since noted that Wikipedia contains a great amount of information on the hot dog, which indeed is a subset of the sandwich. (A lot of it rings true and I won't express the usual caveats about this source).

Not sure about even iced bourbon here, though, but cold new whiskey, closer to the styles of the places where the sausages came from, might do the trick. That rye from West Virginia, Isaiah Morgan for example!

Gary

Joeluka
02-01-2007, 17:56
Being a NY'er and an Italian I think the Pepper and Egg Hero should be there.

TBoner
02-01-2007, 19:25
I grew up in Nebraska, and I've had many a Runza in my time. The basic Runza/bierock is relatively unseasoned - salt and pepper, maybe some garlic and onion, and then the beef and kraut. You could probably add paprika, given the Central/Eastern European heritage/connections of the sandwich, but I never have (my mom taught me how to create a homemade version that's stellar...). The bread is actually a sweet yeast dough, and the sweet and savory elements of the sandwich play off of each other nicely.

The Runza chain offers an "Italian" runza and a cheese runza, both of which are fine, but the original is still the best, and indeed I think it would make a good bourbon accompaniment.

Gillman
02-01-2007, 21:02
Thanks TBoner, that's a great evocation of the dish. (But what's the home-made recipe ?:)). Interesting that an Italian version is offered. Could this suggest the dish has Italian origins..? The name sounds Italian, sort of.

Joe, that's intriguing about a pepper and egg hero - more details please!

Gary

jspero
02-02-2007, 06:14
Speaking up for the Maryland contingent:

Crabcake Sandwich - MD Blue Crab cake on roll. Served with Old Bay seasoning, cocktail sauce, and tartar sauce on the side (add to taste).

I've never had one with bourbon, but I'll bet a nice high-rye bourbon would go nice after eating one.

Jay

barturtle
02-02-2007, 06:45
I just thought of one that you might wanna give a shot-The Po Boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%27boy).

Gillman
02-02-2007, 07:37
Both great additions, many thanks. I am sure in the 1800's these would have been consumed with glasses of rye whiskey or a not well-aged bourbon, maybe chilled (or maybe with mint juleps or similar). Baltimore being one of the great homes of rye whiskey, I think ways were found to pair it with the fine crab dishes of the area.

The Po Boy etymology is fascinating.

Gary

stoopsie
02-02-2007, 07:56
Lets not forget the Pittsburgh, Original Primanti Brothers Sandwich. It contains your choice of grilled meat, vinegar based cole slaw, cheese, 2 slices of tomato and French fries all stuffed between 2 slices of thick Italian bread. I am getting hungry just thinking about it and when I added the pictures, well, it looks like and early lunch for me.

Howie

smokinjoe
02-02-2007, 08:14
Lets not forget the Pittsburgh, Original Primanti Brothers Sandwich. It contains your choice of grilled meat, vinegar based cole slaw, cheese, 2 slices of tomato and French fries all stuffed between 2 slices of thick Italian bread. I am getting hungry just thinking about it and when I added the pictures, well, it looks like and early lunch for me.

Howie

Now, THAT'S a sandwich! :bigeyes: :bigeyes: Sheeze, looks like you could hurt yourself eating that one. Does look good, though. :yum:

JOE

Gillman
02-02-2007, 08:38
Thanks Howie! While that big glass of chilled Coke looks perfect with this, I could see those flasks people keep talking about on SB being brought into service in such cases. :) Since we're talking Pittsburgh, Old Overholt sounds right!

In Toronto, a number of Greek restaurants serve the classic souvlaki (sometimes called a gyro sandwich - I never understood the difference in terminology) and include a few French fries in the sandwich. I have never seen that anywhere else, but here we have an example from Pittsburgh with a different type of sandwich.

Gary

barturtle
02-02-2007, 12:22
In Paris I got to experience the Grec Avec Frites, shaved lamb on a bun with choices of sauce and "salad"-lettuce and tomato, all topped with an order of fries.

Gillman
02-02-2007, 14:17
And the French jibe at American fast food, whaa..? :)

Gary

cowdery
02-02-2007, 16:57
The lobster roll of Maine and the Maritime Provinces deserves mention. It is lobster chunks and celery (maybe some other veggies) held together with a mild, creamy dressing and served on a hot dog bun. They are so ubiquitous, McDonalds serves them.

The difference between a souvlaki and a gyros is that the souvlaki meat is lamb chunks cooked on a skewer, i.e., basic shish kabob. In Greece, the gyros is slices of lamb stacked vertically on a large spit and roasted so that as the edges of the slices are sheered off, one side is seared well done, while the other is still rare. In the U.S., a huge log of pressed, chopped lamb and beef is used in a similar fashion. In Greece, the meat come off in little bite-size chunks, while the U.S. version is long, thin slices of meat.

In Chicago, you are always within sight of a gyros stand and most serve souvlaki as well.

There is a local chain here in Chicago called Ricobene's. Their specialty is the Italian Breaded Steak Sandwich. It is a rather large piece of, I believe, chuck steak, well tenderized but not ground, that is breaded and deep fried similar to chicken-fried steak. It is served on an Italian roll and topped with tomato sauce and your choice of cheese, onions, peppers, etc. The chain also has pizza, but the breaded steak sandwich is their specialty.

I have experienced french fries as a sandwich topped in several places, most notably Romania. In South Carolina, cole slaw is a typical topping for hot dogs. Yes, a topping, not a side dish.

Although the original po boy is like a sub, with cold cuts, I prefer the oyster po boy.

TNbourbon
02-02-2007, 18:42
Gary, this thread and the chilly temperatures here tonight (low in the teens predicted) remind me, too, of what my Mom simply called a 'hot beef sandwich' while I was growing up in snowy, SW Michigan. Sometimes also made with turkey, it is/was an open-faced concoction made of two slices of white bread laid out on a plate, topped with sliced meat, sided by mashed potatoes (yes, Dan Quayle was both right and wrong -- the 'e' is correct, though optional!), all smothered with brown gravy.
I know this isn't an entirely regional dish, as I've found it elsewhere, too. It used to be a standard in the 24-hour coffee shops in Las Vegas back when I started going out there in the early/mid-'80s.
Wouldn't mind having one right now, though.:yum:

BourbonJoe
02-02-2007, 18:46
Tim,
Your description of the hot beef sandwich is made all the time here in Pennsylvania Dutch Country and has been for all of my 63 years and probably long before that. Yummy. I eat em all the time.
Joe :usflag:

OscarV
02-02-2007, 18:52
Gary, this thread and the chilly temperatures here tonight (low in the teens predicted) remind me, too, of what my Mom simply called a 'hot beef sandwich' while I was growing up in snowy, SW Michigan. Sometimes also made with turkey, it is/was an open-faced concoction made of two slices of white bread laid out on a plate, topped with sliced meat, sided by mashed potatoes (yes, Dan Quayle was both right and wrong -- the 'e' is correct, though optional!), all smothered with brown gravy.
I know this isn't an entirely regional dish, as I've found it elsewhere, too. It used to be a standard in the 24-hour coffee shops in Las Vegas back when I started going out there in the early/mid-'80s.
Wouldn't mind having one right now, though.:yum:



yup, that is classic comfort food,... Used to be a staple at the old-time diners.
Beef or turkey, they were both great.

ILLfarmboy
02-02-2007, 18:54
Gary, this thread and the chilly temperatures here tonight (low in the teens predicted) remind me, too, of what my Mom simply called a 'hot beef sandwich' while I was growing up in snowy, SW Michigan. Sometimes also made with turkey, it is/was an open-faced concoction made of two slices of white bread laid out on a plate, topped with sliced meat, sided by mashed potatoes (yes, Dan Quayle was both right and wrong -- the 'e' is correct, though optional!), all smothered with brown gravy.
I know this isn't an entirely regional dish, as I've found it elsewhere, too. It used to be a standard in the 24-hour coffee shops in Las Vegas back when I started going out there in the early/mid-'80s.
Wouldn't mind having one right now, though.:yum:

Around here we call that a "roast beef sandie". Damn good comfort food!!

barturtle
02-02-2007, 19:04
yup, that is classic comfort food,... Used to be a staple at the old-time diners.
Beef or turkey, they were both great.

I grew up with that as well, in Louisville. Mom switched to making them with turkey after dad went on his "turkey everything" diet

Gillman
02-02-2007, 20:22
Just had dinner but getting hungry again. :)

I had one of those lobster sandwiches Chuck mentioned in Nova Scotia once, just superb.

Gary

TBoner
02-02-2007, 20:41
Thanks TBoner, that's a great evocation of the dish. (But what's the home-made recipe ?:)). Interesting that an Italian version is offered. Could this suggest the dish has Italian origins..? The name sounds Italian, sort of.

Joe, that's intriguing about a pepper and egg hero - more details please!

Gary

I don't know about the word runza, but the word bierock (same sandwich, different shape and geography) is derived from pierogi, and my understanding is this is a German-Russian food. The Italian runza, when you taste it, is pretty generically Italian: bad marinara, mozzerella, etc. I've never had a homemade Italian runza, either, so I always figured it was a gimmick to expand the menu.

Now, about the recipe. I'll say that this (http://www.kitchengifts.com/runza.html) will get you close. However, there are a couple of key points missing. First, you want to be careful not to overwork the dough. You're not making chewy French bread, so you should knead just until smooth and then stop. Second, you want a good fat content in your beef: get chuck or something else that's 80% lean or so. You can drain a bit of fat off when the filling has finished cooking, but the fat adds a ton of flavor and coats the bits of cabbage, so that the filling becomes somewhat uniform in texture. Finally, you really want to make sure the cabbage has given up most of its moisture before you use the filling. Otherwise, you'll end up with a soggy final product.

Now, as for a couple of seasoning choices and one or two other secrets, those stay in the family, man...;)

CrispyCritter
02-02-2007, 21:14
In Greece, the gyros is slices of lamb stacked vertically on a large spit and roasted so that as the edges of the slices are sheered off, one side is seared well done, while the other is still rare. In the U.S., a huge log of pressed, chopped lamb and beef is used in a similar fashion. In Greece, the meat come off in little bite-size chunks, while the U.S. version is long, thin slices of meat.

Interestingly, the Chicago-style gyros is popular in Britain as well - under a different name. Over there, it's known as "doner kebabs," and it is often served with hot chile sauce (or curry) instead of the cucumber-based tzatziki. I had some in a little chip shop in Edwinstowe (near Sherwood Forest) back in '99, and I almost freaked when I saw the exact same Autodoner vertical broilers and lamb/beef logs that are used in Chicago.

I order my gyros without sauce, and shake Tabasco or Louisiana hot sauce on it, so the British version was just fine with me.

barturtle
02-02-2007, 21:33
I almost freaked when I saw the exact same Autodoner vertical broilers and lamb/beef logs that are used in Chicago.

I order my gyros without sauce, and shake Tabasco or Louisiana hot sauce on it, so the British version was just fine with me.


That's the same machine that they use for the Grec in Paris...coolest thing ever...I so want one. I have never seen one in the States.

I went to Paris with a school group comprised mostly of Louisiana natives and many of them were complaining about the bland food, I find that amusing, as the Kentucky Hillbilly in me thinks that what they call spicy, isn't.

CrispyCritter
02-02-2007, 21:44
Heh... the Autodoner is so common in Chicagoland that you can hardly throw a brick without hitting a restaurant that has one. ;)

In fact, the broilers are made (http://autodoner.com/contactus.html) in the Chicago suburb of Elk Grove Village.

barturtle
02-02-2007, 22:02
Heh... the Autodoner is so common in Chicagoland that you can hardly throw a brick without hitting a restaurant that has one. ;)

In fact, the broilers are made (http://autodoner.com/contactus.html) in the Chicago suburb of Elk Grove Village.

I always knew I needed to spend more time in the windy city:grin: Seems like I'm always in and out quickly

That's not exactly the one I saw in Paris, but close enough for me to be interested...though I think my smoke alarm would go of every time I used it:rolleyes: The ones I saw in Paris had an entire back panel that would move closer or farther away from the spit, depending on how busy the place was, the cook would speed up the process by moving it closer or slow it down by turning down the heat and sliding it farther away.

Now I just need a good excuse to regularly put 7lbs of lamb on a spit regularly to justify the purchase.:lol:

It's a race between sloths, which one will be purchased first: this or a homebrew setup?:slappin:

CrispyCritter
02-02-2007, 22:12
The ones that I've seen (both around Chicago and in the UK) have side panels that can be moved closer in to the spit. It seems to me that they are moved in by the cook, as the meat is cut away, to make sure that the remaining meat gets cooked properly.

The broilers I've seen were fueled by natural gas; a flame at the base of the wire grid on each side is clearly visible.

Edward_call_me_Ed
02-03-2007, 04:34
I don't know about the word runza, but the word bierock (same sandwich, different shape and geography) is derived from pierogi, and my understanding is this is a German-Russian food.

There is a part of Lincoln NE that is called the Russia Bottoms. It was a German/Russian section of town. There is a large Czech population in Nebraska, maybe that is where the word Runza comes from. Here in Japan/Hokkaido they know a sandwich that they call a Piroshiki from Russia. It sounds like a Runza, but I have never had one.

Ed

cowdery
02-03-2007, 12:41
...what my Mom simply called a 'hot beef sandwich' while I was growing up in snowy, SW Michigan. Sometimes also made with turkey, it is/was an open-faced concoction made of two slices of white bread laid out on a plate, topped with sliced meat, sided by mashed potatoes (yes, Dan Quayle was both right and wrong -- the 'e' is correct, though optional!), all smothered with brown gravy.

The open-face sandwich is a diner staple throughout the midwest. I guess I just assumed it was everywhere, but is it not common in your part of Tennessee? The typical varieties are roast beef, turkey and meat loaf.

I'm a long-time fan.

cowdery
02-03-2007, 12:46
Another item worth mentioning for novelty's sake if no other reason is the butterburger, a variation on the hamburger that could only have been invented in Wisconsin, but the chain that originated it, Culvers, has been moving into the Chicago area. It's a basic hamburger with a pat of butter melted on top.

Edward_call_me_Ed
02-03-2007, 16:42
The open-face sandwich is a diner staple throughout the midwest. I guess I just assumed it was everywhere, but is it not common in your part of Tennessee? The typical varieties are roast beef, turkey and meat loaf.

I'm a long-time fan.

You know, the only place I have encountered open-faced sandwiches is one the pages of a bookor a magazine, and now here. I have never been served one, seen anyone eat one or even been told about eating one.

Ed

cowdery
02-03-2007, 17:18
Well, that's interesting. They are ubiquitous everyplace I've lived, which is Ohio, Kentucky and Illinois. They are definitely diner fare. Maybe you just always eat in fancy places.

TNbourbon
02-03-2007, 21:02
The open-face sandwich is a diner staple throughout the midwest. I guess I just assumed it was everywhere, but is it not common in your part of Tennessee?..

Common, no -- but not unheard of. Biscuits are most often the 'bread' served with 'country cookin'' here, so variations of biscuits and gravy are much more prevalent.

Edward_call_me_Ed
02-04-2007, 02:46
Well, that's interesting. They are ubiquitous everyplace I've lived, which is Ohio, Kentucky and Illinois. They are definitely diner fare. Maybe you just always eat in fancy places.


Not really, but when I eat at a diner I almost always order breakfast or a burger.

Ed

NeoTexan
02-04-2007, 04:03
, a variation on the hamburger that could only have been invented in Wisconsin,

Here in Akron, OH we have a local chain that puts brown sugar in the meat! What people do to good beef. :lol:
I tried them two or three times but have never aquired the taste for them. They do make great shakes! Oh, and let's not forget the Phosphates (http://www.cloudcreations.com/cafe/sodafountian.html).
The best thing about it is the fact that it is still the old "drive up, turn on your headlights and get car-side" service.

Swenson's (http://www.swensonsdriveins.com/)

Joeluka
02-04-2007, 07:54
The open-face sandwich is a diner staple throughout the Midwest. I guess I just assumed it was everywhere, but is it not common in your part of Tennessee? The typical varieties are roast beef, turkey and meat loaf.

I'm a long-time fan.

The "open faced" turkey or roast beef sandwich is a Diner staple here on Long Island. And if you don't know Long Island there is a Diner, Pizzeria, Bagel shop, Chinese Take-out, 7-11, and Taco Bell on basically EVERY street. During my wife's three pregnancies, she had me get her an "open faced" turkey sandwich from her childhood Diner almost once a week.

The Pepper and Egg hero is just what is sounds like. You sauté some peppers , onions,and garlic in Olive oil, then when they start to turn golden and soft you throw in some beaten egg's. When it's cooked you but the mixture on a hero and then eat away. There is also a Potato and egg hero next to the pepper and egg one. These are on every pizzeria menu here in NY.

TNbourbon
02-04-2007, 14:47
I don't know if Gary is prescient (entirely possible -- we're talking Gary Gillman here!:skep::lol:), or if he's just able to read the TV Guide, but I'm currently watching a fascinating History Channel lineup of "American Eats". Currently showing is "History on a Bun" about the advent and importance of the sandwich on American and world culture.
Besides gaining a new appreciation of the saying "...the greatest thing since sliced bread..." (pre-WWII Wonder Bread), which authored the change for virtually every ethnic food into some sort of sandwich, I've learned that New Haven/Groton sandwich makers delivering sandwiches to WWII submarine builders originated the 'sub' sandwich, a similar story about ship-building Hog Island in Pennsylvania led to the Hoagie, and a local sandwicheria's donation of sandwiches to striking New Orleans dock-workers named the Po' Boy. Especially charming is the tangential relationship of the ice cream cone, ice cream sandwich, ice cream bar and other things ice cream to the sandwich, and how the intoxicating popularity of the accidentally-created ice cream soda led to its prohbition on Sundays -- which led, in turn, to putting ice cream in a bowl to create the ice cream 'sundae'.
Other segments highlight the rise of the quintessential American hamburger and White Castle, McDonald's and Kentucky Fried Chicken (more outlets than McDonald's in 1969!).
Last, I find it amusing (keeping in mind the ubiquitous "Made in China" labels we see) that virtually all fortune cookies with which we finish meals in Chinese restaurants are "Made in U.S.A.":cool:

Gillman
02-04-2007, 15:13
Those fortune cookies are made in U.S.A. just like chop suey was. (Yes).

Thanks, Tim. I was not aware of the History Channel series you mentioned. Glad to see its interest in the subject matter, though.

One way or another, regional North American food is penetrating the urban, always status-conscious, mentality. There is a Montreal humble food, poutine (french fries, gravy and cheese curds, mixed). It will soon be offered in a ramped-up version in a Daniel Boulud gastro-pub soon to open in Manhattan. M. Boulud is from France but is inspired by his Quebec-based partners who observed the success of this dish (and other Quebec specialties) in gentrified form in my home town of Montreal.

Eh ben - la poutine - the name derives from the English "pudding" - not strange if you know Quebec - with foie gras and raw milk cheddar? Why not. Let the New Yorkers transfix on the latest transformations of good old basic Canadian and Americans foods.

Give me the loose meat sandwich though, as it comes, and on its home turf.

Gary

Sweetmeats
02-05-2007, 10:20
Open faced sandwiches are rare out here on the West Coast. I remember my boss taking me to a fairly nice restaurant and being disappointed that the Steak Sandwich didn't have a top bun. That's about the only open-faced sandwich I've come across.

gr8erdane
02-10-2007, 05:18
To me, the sandwich I crave most these days is one I grew up with in the sleepy little town of Fredericktown, MO. A small drive in simply named The Pig has been serving their smoked pork shoulder sandwiches for a LONG time (my dad carhopped there in the 50s). They smoke the pork shoulders in the pit style and slice them up thin. Then they put it between plain old white bread and brush butter on the top and bottom and heap em up on a tray. As needed, the sandwiches are given one (regular), two (double) or three (triple, my favorite) squirts of their "hot sauce" which isn't really all that hot and then toasted in a sandwich press that makes them look much like a toasted cheese sandwich. Oh, and a slice of american cheese added is called a combination (coming also in regular, double or triple). Carhops still wait on drive up diners but there is also a small inside dining room. Every time I go to see my dad, that is a shrine I must visit. The Pig was always the turnaround spot for weekend cruisers when I was in high school and a great place to grab a quick triple or Lottaburger or Mincemeat sandwich. Boy, do I miss that place way out here in Colorado.....

BobA
02-10-2007, 15:13
One you'll often find in the coastal South, esp. along the Gulf, is the fried grouper sandwich. Now usually served on a bun (although the first I remember was on sliced bread) or hoagie type roll, it differs from the fast-food fried fish sandwich primarily in the use of real fish.

Bob

Gillman
02-10-2007, 15:45
Bob, thanks, one time in Florida (different parts including Clearwater area) I noted many signs in the country advertising smoked mullet for sale. I think that is a fresh water fish. Is smoked mullet still prevalent in the South, if so, is it a coastal thing mostly?

Gary

BobA
02-10-2007, 16:55
Not as prevalent as I'd like; smoked mullet a favorite of mine and declining in availability. The roadside stands are going the way of boiled peanut stands; just fewer all the time. Can still find some in seafood stores or a guy smoking them at a marina or something, and sometimes even a Publix grocery. And it is mostly a coastal thing. The mullet is a saltwater fish that is usually taken from more brackish, estruarine waters. Although some claim success with hook and line, it eats vegitation, I believe, and is mostly taken by cast nets thrown from small boats, in fairly small creeks, etc. So it is the kind of thing where a harvest will be a guy with an 18' jon boat and four full coolers, which doesn't lend itself to the sort of commercial distribution that goes on today.

I have to admit, I have no clue as to the current mullet regs in FL, or anywhere else. When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, I don't think I ever heard of there being any.

Bob

cowdery
02-10-2007, 17:18
There is a fascinating area in Southern Illinois, a strip of land between the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers, that obviously gets increasingly narrow until the two converge. It is interesting because there are a wealth of Mississippian and other Indian sites there, and its present day culture is interesting because it is rural and somewhat isolated, bridges being infrequent. There are still several ferries in operation.

I had a unique fish dish there in a diner a few years ago. I don't recall the species but it wasn't catfish. When breaded and deep fried, it looked like an Outback Bloomin' Onion, each petal a perfectly cooked morsel of fish flesh.

Louisville, presumably because of the Ohio River, is a great town for fried fish sandwiches.

Mike Linnig's, on the far outskirts of town, is a one-of-a-kind place right by the river that specializes in fried fish, cold beer and turtle soup. In the summer, most of the seating is out of doors. It's a restaurant, but it feels like a county fair.

Cunningham's, downtown, is not the original location, which was a notorious saloon, bordello and betting parlor, established in 1870 and destroyed by fire in 2001. Still a local favorite, and now entirely respectable, they have a complete menu but the fried fish sandwich and turtle soup are the traditional picks.

There's also a local fast food chain called Moby Dick that has a mean fried fish sandwich, a large fillet served on rye bread with tartar sauce, hush puppies on the side, just as God intended.

Gillman
02-10-2007, 17:26
Around Lake Huron and maybe Lake Ontario in Canada, yellow perch are still fished commercially and for sport. In the towns along the lake, this is fried and often served in a sandwich with cole slaw. I know in Buffalo, New York, Friday fish fries were very common, and maybe still are. One time I had a great fried fish on a bun in Dunkirk, NY (west of Buffalo on the Lake). I was looking for a small, old-independent brewery called Koch's. By the time I got there, Koch's had closed but some of its beers were still in the stores. I drove there myself during a weekend to see this. I talked to the local people and one man told me, mix Koch's porter with its lager, 1:2. I still do that with porter and lager sometimes and just had one with dinner, except I did it 50/50. I had as much fun on that trip as if I went, say, to Cannes. Its bouilliabaisse is great but the meal I had in Dunkirk was just as good. Scenes on the beach maybe would give Cannes the advantage but never mind. :)

Gary

cowdery
02-11-2007, 16:21
Fried Lake Erie perch was a favorite from my childhood which, apparently, is once again available. I had some here in Chicago at the Hopleaf.

TNbourbon
02-11-2007, 16:55
...yellow perch...

Not a sandwich story, specifically, but your mention of yellow perch harkens back to some of my best memories of childhood -- our trips to fish with cane poles off the South Haven, Michigan, pier for yellow perch out of Lake Michigan.
We'd waken well before dawn, pack and travel the 50 miles to the lakeshore, and catch 10-12-inch perch from the big lake's waters using 'mousies' as bait on a simple bamboo-cane pole and line.
The perch were/are great-eating fish and, though sometimes found in the area's inland lakes, were a dinner-table treat pan-fried after such a trip.
Good times, good memories.

JeffRenner
02-13-2007, 16:40
One you'll often find in the coastal South, esp. along the Gulf, is the fried grouper sandwich. Now usually served on a bun ..., it differs from the fast-food fried fish sandwich primarily in the use of real fish.

Sadly, it seems that it might not (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/021307/met_7863256.shtml) really be grouper. I know I was disappointed in the grouper sandwich in a restaurant on Anna Maria Island (sear Sarasota) last month. I suspect now that it wasn't really grouper.

The grouper nuggets at our "regular" restaurant down there seemed good, though.

Jeff

CrispyCritter
02-13-2007, 18:13
There is a fascinating area in Southern Illinois, a strip of land between the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers, that obviously gets increasingly narrow until the two converge. It is interesting because there are a wealth of Mississippian and other Indian sites there, and its present day culture is interesting because it is rural and somewhat isolated, bridges being infrequent. There are still several ferries in operation.

I had a unique fish dish there in a diner a few years ago. I don't recall the species but it wasn't catfish. When breaded and deep fried, it looked like an Outback Bloomin' Onion, each petal a perfectly cooked morsel of fish flesh.

Mmmmm, that sounds good. I wish I had known about that one when I took my little roadtrip (http://crispycritter.cc/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=841) to St. Louis last November. Rather than go directly home, I crossed the Mississippi at Alton, and then headed up Illinois Highway 100, which crosses into that general area as it heads north. Some of the stretches of Hwy. 100 are quite scenic. Unfortunately, the weather sucked that day, so I didn't stop to take pictures.

On the other hand, during the trip to St. Louis, I stopped at a classic Route 66 icon, the Ariston Cafe in Litchfield - in business since 1929, and at its present location since 1935. It's well worth a stop if you're in the area - not just for the history, but for the food as well.

cowdery
02-13-2007, 19:32
I don't recall where it was, but it might have been near Kampsville, so you probably were in the vicinity.

CrispyCritter
02-13-2007, 20:31
Yup, Highway 100 goes through Kampsville. I'll have to remember this in case I head back to that area sometime.

Strangely, Google Maps labels Illinois River Rd. going due south from Kampsville as Rte. 1. This is very incorrect, as Illinois Highway 1 runs along the eastern edge of the state from Chicago (95th & Halsted) to Cave-in-Rock on the Ohio River. Maybe it's a county highway number.

Big Chipper
02-15-2007, 10:25
I grew up in New Orleans, so my three favorite sandwiches of all time are the muffaletta, a Ferdi's special from Mother's and a good shrimp po boy. A muffaletta is a large round Italian bread stuffed with cappicola, mortadela, salami, provalone, topped with a garlicky olive spread. A Ferdi's special is roast beef po boy (w/ gravy and debris)that adds ham and is a specialty of Mother's Restaurant. The shimp po boy consists of fried gulf shrimp on french bread with lettuce, tomatoes, and mayonnaise. Some places may put on cocktail sauce or tartar sauce, but they wouldn't be considered a classic "dressed" shrimp po boy.

Now that I'm in North Carolina, we put cole slaw on chili burgers, chili dogs, and most commonly pork barbeque sandwiches. There are two kinds of barbeque in NC, the tomato based sauce of the Western part of the state, and the vinegar based sauce of the Eastern part of the state. It's real good...

ILLfarmboy
02-16-2007, 00:57
I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned the Reuben; corned beef, Swiss cheese and Sauerkraut with Russian dressing on toasted rye or pumpernickel. it's one of my favorite hot sandwiches.

gr8erdane
02-18-2007, 02:57
I don't recall the species but it wasn't catfish. When breaded and deep fried, it looked like an Outback Bloomin' Onion, each petal a perfectly cooked morsel of fish flesh.

Sounds to me like it might have been a roughfish like carp or sucker. Most of the time when a fish is prepared like that is for two reasons: 1. carp to get the "mud" taste out or 2. suckers to allow the hot grease to dissolve all the tiny little bones. I may be wrong but that would be my guess. Then again it could even be sturgeon out of the Mississippi or Illinois....

Ubertaster
02-18-2007, 06:21
Back when I used to live across the river from St. Louis I rode my motorcycle north of Alton to Hardin where their specialty was a buffalo fish sandwich with raw onions and pickles. I wish I had one now. Hardin also had a bar called the County Seat that had the Mescal with the worm in an airline type 2oz bottle [Monte Albin] that they would pour in a glass and serve. If you drank the worm they would write your name in red magic marker on the ceiling or wall. If you could not keep the worm down they wrote your name with a green magic marker. I have my name [in red] on the ceiling three times. They had hundreds of names on the ceiling and walls.

bj

cowdery
02-18-2007, 16:12
Sounds to me like it might have been a roughfish like carp or sucker. Most of the time when a fish is prepared like that is for two reasons: 1. carp to get the "mud" taste out or 2. suckers to allow the hot grease to dissolve all the tiny little bones. I may be wrong but that would be my guess. Then again it could even be sturgeon out of the Mississippi or Illinois....

The "tiny bones" thing rings a bell, so it may have been a sucker.

Virus_Of_Life
02-19-2007, 20:16
I don't believe anyone has yet mentioned the Reuben; corned beef, Swiss cheese and Sauerkraut with Russian dressing on toasted rye or pumpernickel. it's one of my favorite hot sandwiches.

I am with you on that one! I was going to mention it too until I finally got to your post where it was brought up. I love Reuben Sandwiches, not sure where the originated although the similarity to Corned Beef and Pastrami on rye from NY would make me think that area.

Eating Reubens is where I believe I developed my love for Rye bread. There is some place in Oregon that makes a Turkey Reuben, McMenamins Pub I think it was, that was just phenomenol! I love it with pastrami too. OK I am hungry now!

RoyalWater
02-23-2007, 13:43
Hillbilly hot dog: footlong weiner on a white bun; what distinguishes it is onions, chili (NOT hot dog sauce), and cole slaw, relish and mustard are optional; some places offer kraut but I've never noticed any consistency on that; the weiner may be anything from an IGA generic to Nathan's but I've never seen anyone offer Hebrew National and I've eaten dozens of these.

Hillbilly hot dogs are available at any dairy bar and roadside grill in Appalachian KY, WV, VA, and TN under various names, but usually just 'hot dog' (w/ everything) also 'slaw dog', 'southern slaw dog', 'miner's sausage' etc.

doubleblank
02-26-2007, 05:23
While not american, Argentina has a great sandwich down here in Mendoza called the Lomito. This has beef tenderloin grilled on a thin bread with their special mayo, lettuce and tomato. But always order the Complete Lomito. With ham, cheese and a fried egg on top. You can´t eat the whole thing. Costs about $3 ´Complete´.

Randy

HighTower
02-26-2007, 05:26
But always order the Complete Lomito. With ham, cheese and a fried egg on top. You can´t eat the whole thing.

Randy

Randy,

Sounds like a challenge to me!:grin:

Scott

SBOmarc
02-26-2007, 10:00
I have waited and waited to respond but the time has come. Being from Philadelphia, I can tell you that there is no reason to go past the Philly Cheesesteak or Hoagie. When made right they are a true treasure.

Unfortunate for me that out here in SoCal they are impossible to find made right.

cowdery
02-26-2007, 13:55
A lot of things don't travel well. For example, sub shops along the Jersey shore make the best subs ever. What makes them better than Subway or Quizno's or any other sub shop? I mean, a sub is a sub, right? Hell, it's just lunch meat. But there's something about them, to the point where I went into a chain place in an airport once, and it was either called Jersey sub or they said something that led me to believe they were trying to emulate Jersey subs and, by God, they got it right. Delicious.

Though not a sandwich, crawfish are a good example. You can get crawfish up here, but they don't even come close to tasting like they do in Louisiana. And don't even get me started on the crawfish that's coming in from China. Truly vile.

Gillman
02-26-2007, 14:13
I don't think the Cuban sandwich was mentioned. I have never had this in Cuba (never been there, no desire to) but I have in Miami. This is a good example of an elegant, light sandwich. It is some slices of fresh pork and ham, a layer of cheese, a pickle of some kind I think and a dab of mustard on a characteristic crusty roll. Very nice and I was told there it was invented for a late night snack, after a night in the clubs or bars. Ole!

Gary

BourbonJoe
02-26-2007, 17:35
Gary,
There is a Cuban place in Key West that makes the very best Cuban sandwich. The Sangria is superb also. It's called El Siboney (spelling).
Joe :usflag:

Gillman
02-26-2007, 18:43
Thanks Joe, I will check it out if I ever get there. That is one of the places on my "must visit" list.

Gary

Ubertaster
03-05-2007, 07:25
Throughout my railroad carrier I stopped at many places in the St. Louis area. One of them in East St. Louis was a BBQ joint which sold BBQ snoot sandwiches. I have eaten many of them in the past and my mouth is watering now thinking about it. I knew there was something useful you could do with a pig nose. They always said boil the snot out of it.

bj

scopenut
03-29-2007, 12:05
I don't think the Cuban sandwich was mentioned. I have never had this in Cuba (never been there, no desire to) but I have in Miami. This is a good example of an elegant, light sandwich. It is some slices of fresh pork and ham, a layer of cheese, a pickle of some kind I think and a dab of mustard on a characteristic crusty roll. Very nice and I was told there it was invented for a late night snack, after a night in the clubs or bars. Ole!

Gary

Gary,

I think you're referring to a medianoche (midnight) sandwich which is slightly different from a classic Cuban sandwich. The primary difference is the bread. A medianoche uses a smallish sweet eggy roll and a Cuban sandwich uses Cuban (duh!) bread, which is similar to French bread. The medianoche is more of a late night snack, as you mentioned, while a Cuban sandwich is generally larger and a meal in itself.

-Kevin

Gillman
03-29-2007, 14:53
Thanks for this, I think I had the Cuban sandwich right but not the part about the late night snack, which refers to the other sandwich you mentioned. Actually I had the Cuban sandwich a couple of weeks ago for lunch at David's in Fort Lauderdale and it was as I described it and you did, the one with the French-style bread. But they didn't press it on the grill this time (or hardly at all), and I felt it wasn't nearly as good as when pressed. Later, someone told me some people do prefer it not pressed.

It indeed is a sizable meal, with the chips sprinkled over and a beer it lasted me until well into evening. (Beer: Presidente which I thought from previous trips was all-malt but perhaps never was since the side of the bottle referred to barley malt and adjunct of some kind. Still a good product but then in Fort Lauderdale given a choice I'd take a "mojito" :))

Gary