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cowdery
06-08-2000, 10:25
The discussion about who makes Corner Creek Reserve got me thinking about what Heaven Hill does make. Here is the list of all their American whiskey products. This does not include private label brands they create for others. These are just the brands they own.

Bourbon
Evan Williams Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage Bourbon Whiskey
EIjah Craig Small Batch Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Elijah Craig 18-Year-Old Single Barrel Bourbon Whiskey
Henry McKenna Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Henry McKenna Bottled-In-Bond Single Barrel Bourbon Whiskey
Fighting Cock Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Heaven Hill Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Old Fitzgerald Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Old Fitzgerald 1849 Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Very Special Old Fitzgerald Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey

Rye Whiskey
Rittenhouse Rye Whisky
Pikesville Rye Whiskey
Stephen Foster Rye Whiskey

Blended Whisky
Philadelphia Blended whisky

Corn Whiskey
Georgia Moon Corn Whiskey
Mellow Corn Whiskey

I look forward to a lively discussion about the relative merits of Georgia Moon and Mellow Corn.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
06-08-2000, 18:52
Chuck said...

Corn Whiskey
Georgia Moon Corn Whiskey
Mellow Corn Whiskey

I look forward to a lively discussion about the relative merits of Georgia Moon and Mellow Corn.

Hah!! Okay, Mark... Do you want to start this off, or should I? Heh heh!

Mark Mason and I have been having this exact conversation offline just this week! Let me throw a third one into the mix; McCormick has returned its li'l brown jugs of Platte Valley to the marketplace. At least I think it was out of production until recently. The current Platte Valley is 3-year-old 80 proof, as opposed to 5-year-old 80.6 proof. It's also distilled in Illinois, and "selected and bottled", while the older version was "distilled and bottled" by McCormick in Weston, Missouri. I've never had the opportunity to try the old McCormick; the current one is nothing special (and I like corn whiskey). It compares to both the Heaven Hill corns about the same as Rittenhouse compares to Old Overholt or Rip Van Winkle Rye.

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
06-08-2000, 19:28
For those who haven't any access to real moonshine these are passible facesimiles. Here in the mountains of Virginia this honorable tradition is still passed along from father to son. We also have nice apple and peach orchards. Apple cider is allowed to harden and is then distilled. Clear and crisp. Peaches on the other hand are allowed to overripen and are then quartered into 55 gallon barrels along with 55 pounds of Dixie Crystals sugar add water to fill and wait a week while it 'works' (capturing wild yeast out of the air) then double distill. A fine fruit liquor with just a hint of the peach flavor. Good corn 'likker' is made fresh as the corn ripens in the field. Picked in the morning you spend the rest of the day shucking. Then using your freshly sharpened Buck knife you cut the corn off the cob straight into the 55 gallon barrels. It takes a lot of shuckin' & cuttin' to fill a barrel. Again add 55 pounds of Dixie Crystals and wait a week while it works. Double distill. This WILL leave you breathless after you take a pull offin the jug.

Linn S.

cowdery
06-10-2000, 18:56
The last time I had Mellow Corn, which was some years ago when it was still a Glenmore product (when there was still a Glenmore) it was slightly aged in used cooperage and actually had a little tint to it. Georgia Moon, on the other hand, well, let's just say if you dropped a toothpick into it, that would be its sole contact with wood. Both products do resemble white dog, i.e., bourbon just off the high wines still. I keep a bottle of Georgia Moon to give people a sense of what white dog tastes like and, consequently, what the barrel contributes to the process. White Lightning, generally, does not taste like white dog, although the idea of 'stilling it up with a little corn is an interesting one. But John is right, the corn won't ferment unless you grind it, cook it, and mix in a little malted barley (or malted something) to get that enzyme thing going. Otherwise, it's your Dixie Crystals that are producing all the alcohol. The rule in moonshining is you use the cheapest source of fermentable material, whether it is cane sugar or potato peels. These days, it generally is cane sugar. Shiners usually aren't too particular about discarding enough of the heads and tails, so you get a lot of fusel oils, sometimes to a dangerous extent. That is why I don't have any particular romantic attachment to moonshine.

Besides, most of the guys out in the yollers abandoned moonshining years ago in favor of marijuana cultivation.



--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 04:55
Thanks for the enlightenment Chuck. Does the corn absolutley have to dryed and then ground? It can't be fresh cream style corn? Why is Julian (and everyone else for that matter) laughing right now?

Linn S.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 07:00
Wanted to put in a brief plug for Heaven Hill's own brand, which I think is a pretty good bargain bourbon. Supposed to be hard to find, though out here in rural PA it's pretty common.

doug

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 07:04
Always wanted to try stuff like this. (In fact, a friend of a friend is going to....ah, never mind.) Anyhow, one question (and please, forgive my ignorance). Is this stuff sweet tasting? I would guess the peach liquor might be. How about the other stuff?

Just curious,
doug

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 08:47
White dog (raw bourbon) is real sweet. And, as Mark Mason and I were discussing just recently, the corn flavor is so dominant that you can hardly (if at all) taste any rye, wheat, or malted barley in it. I've never tried white lightning moonshine, but I've tasted good ol' Everclear 190-proof grain alcohol (in younger, wilder days we used to mix it with raw cider as a party punch). Virtually no flavor at all. I'd guess the best moonshine would be somewhere between that and 151 white rum?

( DISCLAIMER - I'm not an attorney and the following statement is not being offered as legal advice )

Unlike controlled substances like marijuana, it's not illegal to possess bootleg liquor, you just can't make or distribute it. Is there anyone out there who'll admit to a knowledge of different kinds or flavors?

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 13:40
Doug no it's not sweet tasting at all. The peach is really kind of like a vodka with just a hint of the peach in it's 'flavor'. As for the corn well it aint rocket science but it sure is rocket fuel! Shoo whee doggies!

Linn S.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 13:44
John 'shines got no flavor. Kicks like a mule but no real 'flavor'.

Linn S.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 14:17
Chuck and everyone 'out there' here's a true hillbilly story for your amusement. I was taught how to make 'likker' from an old man named Clyde who learned it from his father Vernon (now deceased). When Clyde was 9 years old his father was caught transporting a load of likker. He was tried and convicted and sent to prison. The family was poor and the only way they had to earn money was to make and sell moonshine. Clyde and his mother, Dixie, were running a batch of corn when agents of the U.S. Treasury Dept.( those damn revenoorers!) arrived and arrested Dixie on the spot, destroyed the still and took young Clyde away. He was placed in a foster home. His mother did two years in prison. Vernon & Dixie were released within a few months of each other. They got low paying jobs and eventually got Clyde back. They never sold another drop, but they did continue to make likker for family and friends. All this happened around '39 or '40. Clyde is unsure of the exact date. I won't tell him that what he's really been making all this time is 'bath-tub gin' as it would break his heart. He really thinks he's doing something very special.

Linn S.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-11-2000, 17:30
Great story, Linn!

No, don't tell Clyde he's "only" making bathtub gin. It isn't bourbon (or even whiskey, for that matter) but it is something special. It's a living part of the same history that lies at the heart of bourbon, of Kentucky, and Pennsylvania, and Virginia, and America. Folks like Jimmy Russell, Elmer Lee, Charles Medley, and Linc Henderson are heros to me; they're cousins to Clyde.

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
06-12-2000, 10:45
Thanks John! I'm not much of a story teller. Clyde's gettin on in age now and he's been right sickly this year. Before he goes to that big distillery in the sky I hope he tells me where he's got his still hid. It's quite a nice little recipe machine!

Linn S.

**DONOTDELETE**
06-12-2000, 17:54
Well folks, you finally made me break down and purchase a bottle (actually jar) of Georgia Moon. But first, the topic of this thread, 'What Heaven Hill Makes':

Let's add the following to the Heaven Hill list:

Dowling 100 (really good everyday whiskey, mellow deep flavor that Jim Murray describes as vanilla)
Old Bardstown (aka Evan Williams, blind man couldn't tell the difference)

I have not had the pleasure of tasting any Heaven Hill Rye yet. But I have my liquor store looking for it. (Rittenhouse and Pikesville)

Last time in Kentucky I picked up a bottle of Old Heaven Hill 10 year old. Nice stuff, definite family resemblance to the Evan Williams 7 year old and 10 year old (1783 label). The HH10 is smoother than the Evan seven and not quite as smoky as the 1783. Very good value at around $ 10/ 750 ml. I have not had the HH six year old, any comments from the group?

Now back to the clear likker. Jim, hope you don't mind a little discussion on unaged bourbon and such. I had one chance to taste White Dog at 140 proof, and I was pleasantly surprised. Hearty raw grain flavors, but not sharp, and not too sweet. Definitely taste the corn, but not to excess. Not a washed out medical taste like vodka. It was not rough as some have described it in writing, but I suspect that the high proof would mask a lot of flavor. The thought did come to mind that White Dog would be a good marketing opportunity. Enter Heaven Hill:

So, today I picked up the jar of Georgia Moon (80 proof), and compared it to my bottle of Mellow Corn (80 proof) and the ubiquitous Evan Williams seven year old (90 proof). The Mellow Corn is a straight whiskey, probably aged two years. The Georgia Moon is 'not over 30 days'. The Mellow Corn still comes off the sweetest of the bunch, leaving one to wonder if it spawns from a different mashbill with no rye. I still have not had a chance to call Heaven Hill to find out. Georgia Moon reminds me a lot of White Dog, I would guess that the rye is in there. Presented at 80 proof, one has the opportunity to taste more than my prior exposure at 140 proof. The Georgia Moon brings forth a thick, toned down syrup texture to the mouth, with some deep taste that are hard to describe. It does remind one of corn, but not a sweet corn taste. More like smelling the corn husk. Distinctive lack of complexity. I do like it, but the White Dog still proof stuff was more enjoyable, and if it were available cheap at 140 proof I would consider drinking it regularly. Following this with Evan seven brings up a world of contrasts. The age tends to bring out the sharpness of the rye in the initial taste, and allow it to linger much longer in the finish. The rye and alcohol seem to combine to give the sensation of warmth. The texture is much lighter in the mouth. All in all, the Evan seven is smoother in some ways and more sharp in others.

A few comments on HH's marketing opportunity: $ 10.20 per 750 ml is quite steep when seven year old Evan Williams is less money. The cost of a low volume novelty, I guess, and perhaps it wouldn't be valued by potential purchasers if it were cheaper? The packaging might be adding to the cost a little, I doubt that the Evan Williams bottling line has an automatic cap tightener wide enough for a Mason jar lid. Speaking of the Jar with the most noble name, it is a pain in the butt to pour a drink from, but the wide mouth is convenient when drinking straight from the jar (wide mouth, perhaps this is how it was named Mason?)

And to finish on a non bourbon note, when I was in Bardstown, I picked up a bottle of Copa de Oro, a coffee liquor made in Mexico which is imported and bottled by Heaven Hill in Bardstown. It is similar to Kahlua, with which it competes, but is half the price. I gave it to my wife for her birthday, and naturally added the spiel that 'it is a special import, not available around here, I had to pick it up in my travels, just for you'. Well, after a coffee and Copa de Oro, she commented that she liked it much better!! Smoother, without the bite of Kahlua. Chalk another one up for Heaven Hill and their miserly customers. Amen, Alleluia, praise the lord and pass the Evan Williams.


Mark A. Mason, El Dorado, Arkansas

cowdery
06-12-2000, 19:08
Actually, since creamed corn is cooked, it just might work.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

RyanStotz
06-13-2000, 10:22
Mark:

> I have not had the HH six year old, any comments from the group?

Very sweet, with plenty of wood vanilla coming through without any of the oak resin taste. Peach-fruity, with a short, lightly rye-spicy finish. I always liked it as a simple, toss-back whiskey, but ever since my connection moved away from Nashville, I can't get it anymore as no HH-brand products are sold up here in the PNW, USA.

Stotz

**DONOTDELETE**
06-22-2000, 19:21
I wanted to follow up on the above Corn Whiskey discussion. I called Heaven Hill today and was placed in touch with one of their marketing managers. (I will let him introduce himself to the group if desires). In a very pleasant 20 minute conversation, I learned the following:

The Mellow Corn and Georgia Moon are both corn whiskey, which means 80% minimum in the mashbills. For Heaven Hill, this is a different mashbill than their bourbon formulation. All three grains are still there, just a higher proportion of corn. (He did not feel at liberty to discuss the exact proportions.) The Mellow Corn is aged (usually in used barrels), the Georgia Moon is not. I mentioned that I was looking for a source of White Dog (straight distilate) from a bourbon mashbill, and suggested HH market it. His and Parker Beam's experience when offering White Dog to various folks (business associates, visiting distribuitors, etc (not the general public)) almost all do not like it and comment that it is almost undrinkable compared to bourbon. Just my luck, I happen to be in the minority of folks who like White Dog. I then went down the rest of my wish list of products I would like to see from HH, rye over 10 years old, barrel proof Evan Williams, etc.

Referencing the Reagans book, the Heaven Hill Bourbon mashbill is 75 % corn, 13 % rye, and 12 % barley. The Corn whiskey mashbill can be deduced in general terms: Since 12 to 8 % is the normal range for barley in bourbon, it is reasonable to assume the same malt content is needed in corn whiskey. Corn would be 80 % min, probably around 90 % max. This leaves 1 to 12 % rye, the percentage used is porbably in the middle of this range, but this is just a guess based on how sweet these two products are.



Mark A. Mason, El Dorado, Arkansas

cowdery
06-27-2000, 06:47
All of your logic is sound, but it is possible to run the barley down to 8 to 10 percent.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

boone
07-06-2000, 07:46
I AM A NEW MEMBER. I READ YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT HEAVEN HILL PRODUCTS AND I AM ABSOLUTELY THRILLED THAT I FOUND THIS WEB SITE. I HAVE ENJOYED READING ALL THE INTERESTING COMMENTS ABOUT THE BOURBON INDUSTRY!!!!!!!
MY REPLY TO YOUR MESSAGE IS : HEAVEN HILL DOES HAVE A CAPPER FOR THE MASON JARS.
IT'S NOT VERY FAST AND THE PLASTIC SEAL IS PUT ON BY HAND BEFORE IT GOES INTO THE HEAT SEALER.

cowdery
07-06-2000, 14:40
Boone,

Welcome aboard. That is good to know that HH has a mason jar capper.

By the way, please do not write your posts in all caps. It looks like you are yelling.

Again, welcome to the forum.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
07-06-2000, 18:46
Boon,

Welcome to the forum!!! It is good to have a resident of Nelson County as a contributor here. Please let us know about your favorite bourbon and any little known 'sleeper' brands or bottlings that you find exceptional. Also, have you ever had the eight year old green label Evan Williams?

Mark A. Mason, El Dorado, Arkansas

boone
07-07-2000, 06:06
Mark
Our house choice is Evan Williams 7 year 90. If you are company and want a bourbon drink here it will be EW. My husband's favorite "Deer Camp" bourbon used to be Wild Turkey until I gave him a bottle of Fighting Cock. He will never go back to WT.
I am not the connoisseur that you are but I am learning. I have tasted probably every product HH makes. My husband is the connoisseur in this household.
I have not tasted the EW 8 yr green. We don't run that very often. But the next time it comes up I will give you my comments.

boone

**DONOTDELETE**
07-07-2000, 10:19
Boone,

I also like EW 7 year old. As for the Fighting Cock, there was quite a discussion on this board on Fighting Cock a couple of months ago. Those of us that had the paper label eight year old tended to like it. Most of the folks who tried the newer six year old with the plastic label found it to be somewhat rough. I consider the two to be very different. The eight year old was enjoyable straight. The six year old has a burnt toast taste to it, suggesting that a higher degree of barrel char was used, or some much older barrels of whiskey are used in the marrying. The six year old is one of the few bourbons that I pour over ice, but I do not drink it often.

If you want your husband to stay with the Heaven Hill brands, you might want to keep him away from Wild Turkey Rare Breed. It is spectacular for a full bodied bourbon.

Mark A. Mason, El Dorado, Arkansas