PDA

View Full Version : The Presidentís Choice Ė Is it any good?



Urban Bourbon
04-09-2007, 16:09
No, not THAT president. The President’s Choice bourbon. I just picked up a small sealed bottle at an estate sale for a buck. I’ve learned that it was discontinued about 10 years ago due to copyright problems. It’s a 1/2 Pint, 90.3 Proof, Brown-Forman Distillers.

My questions: On a 1-10 scale, how good is it? Or, what other bourbon is it comparable to? How old is it? Is it collectible in any way, or should I just open ’er up tonight and start sippin’? (Yes, I do like bourbon!)

(My photo here is a scan, so the bottle appears totally full. It is not. In fact, it looks like a tablespoon or more has evaporated over the years.)

Thanks a lot.


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/dogdream/bourbon.jpg

TNbourbon
04-09-2007, 16:30
Ebay's about the only place to determine a monetary value, and I've seen it a few times there. It won't make you rich, but it would bring back more than your dollar.
Unsurprisingly, I think most of us here would pop the top and drink it -- I know I would! -- just because it's bourbon. After all, that's what it was made for.

cowdery
04-09-2007, 17:15
I’ve learned that it was discontinued about 10 years ago due to copyright problems. It’s a 1/2 Pint, 90.3 Proof, Brown-Forman Distillers.

Do tell. I can't imagine what kind of "copyright problems" they could have had. Also, I have a vague recollection of seeing something like this before, but not as recently as 10 years ago. Where did you get Brown-Forman in connection with this? It doesn't seem like their style. Maybe you could show us the back label?

Rughi
04-09-2007, 17:24
Do tell. I can't imagine what kind of "copyright problems" they could have had. Also, I have a vague recollection of seeing something like this before, but not as recently as 10 years ago. Where did you get Brown-Forman in connection with this? It doesn't seem like their style. Maybe you could show us the back label?


Hey Urban,
I notice you're new, so you may not know that Chuck consulted in bourbon marketing in this general time frame. If you jog his memory with a photo or more info, it's possible he may know a lot about this issue.

Just from the photo, that bottle looks more like it's from the '70s than the '90s to me. It appears to have a true tax stamp.

Roger

barturtle
04-09-2007, 17:35
I agree, it's at least pre 1980 due to the standard non-metric sizing. I have seen one of these before, in a larger size, at Woodford Reserve, one of the on-site tour guides pulled it out of a cabinet to show it to me...don't know why, guess I was just asking the right questions.

TNbourbon
04-09-2007, 17:42
You'll find a reference to President's Choice in relation to erstwhile company president William F. Lucas about halfway through this B-F history outline:
http://www.answers.com/topic/brown-forman-corporation

So, apparently the Brown-Forman connection is correct.
Read a little further, and there's an interesting tale about the introduction of 'light whiskey'.

Urban Bourbon
04-09-2007, 18:18
Hi cowdery,
Here’s some more info:

Looks like in its day it was a “premium-priced product.”

from: http://www.answers.com/topic/brown-forman-corporation
“Although Street effectively diversified Brown-Forman, William F. Lucas replaced him as president in 1969. Lucas was also not part of the Brown family. He had joined Brown-Forman as an engineer in 1935 and advanced through the ranks. Lucas concentrated on marketing Brown-Forman's premium-priced products--President's Choice, Jack Daniel's, Old Forester, and Early Times.”

And, I was wrong on the copyright thing. Read it too fast the first time. It was a Domain Name Dispute Resolution, decided in June, 2000. And it appears that Brown-Forman won against the Complainant in the case, Loblaws, which “owns many PRESIDENT'S CHOICE marks in Canada and the United States.”
http://www.disputes.org/decisions/0170.htm

Also, it looks like Brown-Forman voluntarily withdrew (in 2002) its attempt (in 1997) to register (re-register?) the President’s Choice name for bourbon.
http://ipophil.gov.ph/ipcasesearch/IPSTATUSdetails.asp?casenoparam=14-2002-00042

But I haven’t been able to find out when it went out of production, or why. Or how long it was in production. Or what kind of a reputation it had.

( My google search words were: "President's Choice" "Brown-Forman" bourbon )

Here are enlarged scans of both labels.

PS - The bottle tax stamp is Series 112, No. 332778209, if that means anything.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/dogdream/bourbon001.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/dogdream/bourbon002.jpg

Urban Bourbon
04-09-2007, 18:54
On the bottom of the bottle it says:

LIQUOR BOTTLE
65 (1) 69
2 L-10606

Maybe that means it was made between 1965 and 1969 ?

TNbourbon
04-09-2007, 19:26
On the bottom of the bottle it says:

LIQUOR BOTTLE
65 (1) 69
2 L-10606

Maybe that means it was made between 1965 and 1969 ?

It probably means that the bottle was patented in 1965 and this particular one was manufactured in 1969. Gives you a good approximation of bottling date.

cowdery
04-10-2007, 12:11
I'm not sure it was ever a general release product. More like something to be used for gifts and such. 1969 sounds about right. I was very involved with Brown-Forman between 1980 and 1986, and it wasn't around during that period.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

OscarV
04-10-2007, 13:10
If you bought it from an estate sale that was the belonings of the deceased, then it meant something to him to keep it this long. So that could say something about the bourbon.
What are we saying, late '60's to early '70's?

If it was a 750ml, you could get at least $35.00 on ebay.
But for that much, I'd hang onto it for a while, but I would eventually drink it.
If it was for corporate gifts, it might have come from a honey barrell.

Urban Bourbon
04-10-2007, 18:56
If you bought it from an estate sale that was the belonings of the deceased, then it meant something to him to keep it this long. So that could say something about the bourbon.
What are we saying, late '60's to early '70's?

If it was a 750ml, you could get at least $35.00 on ebay.
But for that much, I'd hang onto it for a while, but I would eventually drink it.
If it was for corporate gifts, it might have come from a honey barrell.


Hi OscarV - I do sell stuff on eBay, collectible books and magazines mostly. But I donít put anything on eBay thatís going to sell for under $25-$30. Just not worth the time. If this bottle is worth at least that much to a collector or connoisseur, and it seems like it should be, thatís where itís going. Iíll put the proceeds into a larger volume of new stuff, maybe try a bourbon I wouldnít have bought otherwise. I am getting some good ideas from this forum. Even though this is only a half-pint, less than $30 and Iíll be happy to drink it myself. I love bourbon, but not for the purpose of admiring the bottle. :yum:

TNbourbon
04-10-2007, 19:44
Hi OscarV - I do sell stuff on eBay, collectible books and magazines mostly. But I don’t put anything on eBay that’s going to sell for under $25-$30. Just not worth the time. If this bottle is worth at least that much to a collector or connoisseur, and it seems like it should be, that’s where it’s going. I’ll put the proceeds into a larger volume of new stuff, maybe try a bourbon I wouldn’t have bought otherwise. I am getting some good ideas from this forum. Even though this is only a half-pint, less than $30 and I’ll be happy to drink it myself. I love bourbon, but not for the purpose of admiring the bottle. :yum:

Just so you'll know, the sale of bourbon on eBay is a sore spot with more than a few here -- both in terms of legality, and the propensity of some folks who've come here to pick our brains, when all they had in mind is profiting from it.
That said, more than a few here (myself included) have been known to buy stuff we can't otherwise get from eBay, with fewer of us even selling stuff there.
All of that to lead to this -- I think you might not get the $25-$30 you seek for a half-pint of anything short of VOF 8yo or suchlike. I know I would see that bottle and think, "Well, if I can get it for around $10-$12 after shipping, maybe I'll give it a go if there's only one other bidder." And, if I did win it, I'd open it and drink it (likely with some friends here). I'd view it as a taste experience, not a collectible.

Urban Bourbon
04-10-2007, 21:10
Just so you'll know, the sale of bourbon on eBay is a sore spot with more than a few here -- both in terms of legality, and the propensity of some folks who've come here to pick our brains, when all they had in mind is profiting from it.
That said, more than a few here (myself included) have been known to buy stuff we can't otherwise get from eBay, with fewer of us even selling stuff there.
All of that to lead to this -- I think you might not get the $25-$30 you seek for a half-pint of anything short of VOF 8yo or suchlike. I know I would see that bottle and think, "Well, if I can get it for around $10-$12 after shipping, maybe I'll give it a go if there's only one other bidder." And, if I did win it, I'd open it and drink it (likely with some friends here). I'd view it as a taste experience, not a collectible.

Thanks, Tim - Itís true that I have on occasion used various forums to ďpick peopleís brainsĒ on some aspect of a subject that was new to me. And sometimes there has been some degree of a money motive behind it, or at least that possibility. I guess I justify that by the fact that the kinds of things that I tend to deal with (books, mostly, and art-related stuff) are also the things that I love myself. So, I do mix making a living with pleasure and learning, whenever I can.

Regarding my little bottle of bourbon here, really I just want to open it up and taste it. But I also wanted to first be sure that I didnít drink up a valuable rarity that I could have passed along (at a profit, yes) to someone who would appreciate it more than I would. And in my investigation I stumbled upon this forum (actually, the whole website) where I have learned in the past four days probably 75-percent of everything I now know about bourbon. So, Iím already happy. And I do hope that no one feels used.
Cheers,
Paul

ILLfarmboy
04-10-2007, 22:03
Just so you'll know, the sale of bourbon on eBay is a sore spot with more than a few here -- both in terms of legality, and the propensity of some folks who've come here to pick our brains, when all they had in mind is profiting from it.
That said, more than a few here (myself included) have been known to buy stuff we can't otherwise get from eBay, with fewer of us even selling stuff there.
All of that to lead to this -- I think you might not get the $25-$30 you seek for a half-pint of anything short of VOF 8yo or suchlike. I know I would see that bottle and think, "Well, if I can get it for around $10-$12 after shipping, maybe I'll give it a go if there's only one other bidder." And, if I did win it, I'd open it and drink it (likely with some friends here). I'd view it as a taste experience, not a collectible.


My biggest gripe with someone coming here (only) to find out how much a certain bottle is worth isn't that I would feel used, "having my brain picked" (not that I am among those who's brain would be picked) but the lack of respect for a finely crafted beverage that is meant to be drunk. Kind of like someone who inherits a Belgian Browning Auto-5 Sweet 16 only to think of it in terms of $$$.

tango-papa
04-11-2007, 00:14
...a Belgian Browning Auto-5 Sweet 16... in terms of $$$.

Now that's gonna be a lot of money right there...:bowdown:

OscarV
04-16-2007, 15:45
I got some info on President's Choice.
A guy at the bar I was delivering to today overheard me and the owner talking about the new bourbon that he now carries,(no biggie, it was just Eagle Rare Single Barrel). He said in 1969 on his 21st birthday his Father in Florida sent him up a bottle of Presidents Choice.

So Chuck nailed the year, 1969. I asked the guy how his Father got it and he said over the counter retail store, and it was the smoothest and best tasting bourbon he ever had.

So, you can imagine how weird that was when this guy pops up with PC knowledge like out of nowhwere,.......