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Chris
07-13-2000, 13:32
I know its not a bourbon, but, I would like some feedback concerning the Dickel ten yr. On the subject of another TN whisky, does anyone know the what the difference is between the green label Jack Daniels and the regular Black Jack?? I hope you guys don't get bent out of shape with my TN whisky post...I am a novice, exploring the wide world of whisky...thanks!!

RyanStotz
07-13-2000, 15:07
> I know its not a bourbon, but, I would like some feedback concerning the
> Dickel ten yr.

The least of the line by far, IMO. Too much on the sweet side, with not enough of the charcoal that makes the others, especially the #12, so great. And for the price, too, it's just ridiculous.

> On the subject of another TN whisky, does anyone know the what the difference
> is between the green label Jack Daniels and the regular Black Jack??

About a year or two, IIRC, with the green being the younger. I prefer the black, as do most I think.

> I hope you guys don't get bent out of shape with my TN whisky post...I am a
> novice, exploring the wide world of whisky...thanks!!

Give 'em hell. I love the TN stuff. Only wish there were more of it available so it'd justify more discussion.

Stotz

**DONOTDELETE**
07-13-2000, 15:31
Funny you should mention that, Chris. I just answered another post and raved about Jack Daniel's Single Barrel. It's an outstanding product that has the distinction (IMHO) of being the only JD offering that surpasses the George Dickel whiskies. I feel that Dickel #8 and #12 are overwhelmingly superior to their Jack Daniel counterparts, Green Label and Black Label. The 10-year-old Special Reserve is really great, and was (of course) my absolute favorite Tennessee whiskey and also one of my favorite American whiskies, period... until I tasted JD Single Barrel. It's still ONE of my favorites, but the Jack Daniel product gets the edge.

By the way, now that the brands that once constituted the United Distillers' Bourbon Heritage Collection have all passed into different hands, you might want to grab whatever bottles of Dickel Special Reserve you can find. The whiskey may still be available, under a new label, but the Bourbon Heritage Collection probably won't be.

As for the difference between Jack Daniel Black and Green, the only real difference is the proof. According to folks at Jack Daniel, there isn't any difference in the mash bill (proportions of corn, malt, and rye), nor the age (everything's about 5 - 7 years old there). It's just the proof. The Jack Daniel black label has been cited as one of the most well-known brand logos in the world, but you can thank Lem Motlow for that; Jack Daniel never saw it. The whiskey he produced wore the green label. Lem bottled a special, higher proof, version with the black label to honor Jack Daniel after he died in 1911. That's the one that became world-popular. Did you know that the green label is only sold in a few states? Also, Jack Daniel USED to be 90 proof, not 86. It's still 90 proof in foreign countries. This year, you can get special Millenium 2000 bottlings of Jack Daniel at 90 proof here in the states. Now you wouldn't think a lousy 4 proof (2%) would make much difference, would you? But it really does. That bottling of Jack Daniel's is really very good... but still not as good as Dickel #12 (also 90 proof -- all the time).

Thanks for opening up the topic of Tennessee Whiskey. Maybe Jim will put this out as a separate discussion. I've always been fascintated with why the whiskey industry never resurfaced in Tennessee after Prohibition. Did you know that there were over 700 registered distilleries in Tennessee at the beginning of the 20th century? (by the way, according the the Midas Financial Index Directory for 1911 - copyright 1910, just prior to Tennessee prohibition, Jack Daniel was registered as #514, not #1 as they proudly claim today; the same directory lists George Dickel as #392). The entire definition of Tennessee Whiskey is based on the testimony of Reagor Motlow to the Internal Revenue Service in 1941, and at that time his distillery (Jack Daniel) was the ONLY one operating in the state. There are now all of two. It's hard for me to accept that these two distilleries are the whole story of Tennessee Whiskey. Are there folks lurking out there in this forum who remember other Tennessee whiskey brands and what they were like? Inquiring minds want to know!

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

jbutler
07-14-2000, 07:25
OK John, you got it. Take this discussion and others like it over to the new forum.
I probably should have created it long ago, but there it is!


Regards,

Jim Butler
StraightBourbon.com

cowdery
07-18-2000, 13:36
John,

Do you have a copy of Midas, or access to one? (Do you detect the jealousy in my voice?)

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
07-18-2000, 19:14
Chuck said...

John, Do you have a copy of Midas, or access to one?

Alas, I'm afraid not. I was quoting Mark Weymack's and Jim Harris' sources from their fine book, "The Book of Classic American Whiskeys" (Chicago, Open Court 1995, page 182)

Of course you know this book, but for the benefit of some of our other readers, this book is a MUST for anyone's collection, even if it is more than a little bit outdated now. My collection includes nearly a dozen books about bourbon (each one read cover to cover repeatedly, by the way), but that one is the only single source of information I know of that surpasses your own writings as a learning resource for me. And that's only because I read it long before I had the chance to read all (well, most) of the "Bourbon Country Reader" back issues.

-John Lipman-
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

cowdery
07-20-2000, 13:11
The Waymack and Harris book is worthwhile, though at the time of its publication I found it a little to eager to please the distillers. I don't remember why exactly, but it's probably in one of those back issues you read of The Reader.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
07-20-2000, 19:20
G'day Chris. Jack Daniels 'green label' is not a sour mash which I believe to be the only difference between the two (eg. Black & Green labels). I personally haven't seen this for over 20 years. Two days ago I bought my first bottle of George Dickel and love it. Why ? Because here in Australia Old Grand Dad bourbon is virtually impossibe to find even though this established my relationship with bourbon over 22 years ago.

Now I reckon thats Great Mate - woof!

**DONOTDELETE**
07-21-2000, 12:07
Chuck,
I have a photocopy of the 1910 Mida's Financial Directory that lists this information. If you have a particular company you wish to look up I will be glad to do so for you. I also have copies of similar directories from 1908 and 1918.
Mike Veach

cowdery
07-26-2000, 11:18
Nothing at the moment. I just seem to recall you and I having a discussion one time about not being able to find a copy of it anywhere. I'm glad you found it.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
07-26-2000, 17:30
Chuck,
The long discussion we had was that I was looking for a collection of the Trade Magazine "Mida's Criteria". The UD Archive had a 1910 Mida's Financial Directory and I have since found several other publications from that trade Magazine, but I have yet to find a collection of the monthly? bi-monthly? magazines. It was published in Chicago so I would hope that one of the libraries in that city saved them but I don't know that for sure. If anyone out there knows of a collection let me know. I would like to see them.
Mike Veach

cowdery
07-26-2000, 19:03
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know there were two different Mida's. (See what I mean, folks. Mike is the King.) I am hoping the Newberry Library here might have something and mean to get down there one of these days. (A search from their web site was inconclusive. Most of the older acquisitions are still only on card catalog.) What should I be looking for?

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
07-26-2000, 20:03
Chuck,
The Mida's people published a Trade Magazine so it should be in the periodical section of the library. They also published as a service to their readers these Financial Reports that listed every distillery, rectifier and wholesale business by state in alphabetical order. They also had a rating system of capital value of a business so that the reader would know before hand what kind of company he would be dealing with. As I recall a company like Bernheim Bros. had a AAAA rating that meant it had a capital value over $1,000,000. Other companies had their rating listed in a similar way and they rated companies down to $1,000 value. Same publisher as the magazine but different type of publication.
Mike