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BradleyC
12-19-2011, 21:10
Talking about the numbering, is this not the 2nd year in a row that we have seen the "B's"? I was expecting "C" this year but have only found B.

HP12
12-20-2011, 07:37
Talking about the numbering, is this not the 2nd year in a row that we have seen the "B's"? I was expecting "C" this year but have only found B.

It would be interesting to learn how high the numbers go for each letter series. A recent VWFRR acquisition is numbered: B45XX.

I'm curious how high the 'A' series went before going to the current 'B' series.

Old Lamplighter
12-20-2011, 17:10
It would be interesting to learn how high the numbers go for each letter series. A recent VWFRR acquisition is numbered: B45XX.

I'm curious how high the 'A' series went before going to the current 'B' series.

I have picked up these off & on for years and seem to recall Julian posting something in the past in this regard. If memory serves me correct, I believe he commented that their bottle numbering followed no particular pattern, rhyme or reason. However, someone else will probably be able to provide more precise info I'm sure.

Seems kinda like so much other 'data' and info coming out of VW....fuzzy at best.

StraightNoChaser
01-06-2012, 22:14
Is there conclusive evidence about the source of the current VWFRR "B" bottling?

Old Lamplighter
01-07-2012, 07:12
I don't know the exact location of the threads, but, there are many previous postings in re to this question. A search will yield more info if desired.

In a nutshell, it is a mix of old COK & Medley stock distilled in the 80s, eventually tanked at 18-19 years of age by Julian to stop the aging process, and now released in regular annual intervals in a set number of bottles as directed by VW until the newer BT stock hits 13 years of age.

yountvillewjs
01-07-2012, 09:51
In my experience, this is by far the hardest of the Van Winkle family to find. I've been fortunate to grab a handful of the age designates, but haven't seen/heard of a bottle of VWFR for sale.

SDpappy
01-07-2012, 12:39
I still can't believe in November when a store asked me if I wanted a Rye to go along with my order of a 12 and 15, I said no thanks. Then I read about how great it is and how hard it is to get...

Oh well :( I won't be making that mistake next time!

CaptainQ
01-07-2012, 16:58
I still can't believe in November when a store asked me if I wanted a Rye to go along with my order of a 12 and 15, I said no thanks.

Ouch, that's a newbie mistake you'll never make again. :bigeyes: Then again that's why there used to be some VW rye on the shelves in some states. People heard about Pappy and didn't care about the rye. Sadly, I'm afraid those days are long gone. :cry:

DeanSheen
01-10-2012, 18:18
Killed another bottle at XMAS.

So good.

omnom
01-12-2012, 18:39
I'm very new to the bourbon game, but I lucked out and found one of these tonight, #B84**. Last one in the store.

My first bottle of any Van Winkle. Woo!

Such a delicious color, can't wait to try it.

Beer&Bourbon
01-12-2012, 19:49
I killed my own on the trip to the distilleries. Killed a buddy's bottle (at his request/ with his help) as well.

Enoch
01-14-2012, 14:41
Strange thing. SC didn't get any VWFRR in the initial shipment. VW said it was a labeling issue. I put my name in at all the stores that carry it and said call me when it comes in. Last week one called and they got a case so I went out and bought 4 bottles at about $60 each. Now they are all calling and each has a case or more. One said sales drop off dramatically after Xmas. Hmmm...

HRay
01-25-2012, 13:18
Strange thing. SC didn't get any VWFRR in the initial shipment. VW said it was a labeling issue. I put my name in at all the stores that carry it and said call me when it comes in. Last week one called and they got a case so I went out and bought 4 bottles at about $60 each. Now they are all calling and each has a case or more. One said sales drop off dramatically after Xmas. Hmmm...

While I was in Columbia for Christmas I was shocked to find a store with SIX(6!) bottles of the VWFRR. They said they had just come in that week. I had been on their list but they never called me. Unfortunately, I was limited to 2 bottles by the boss or I would have bought them all. I know when I finally get back to Columbia, they will be gone (probably already are).

Sadly, I still can't find any here in Atlanta.

Restaurant man
01-25-2012, 20:27
Georgia got 16 bottles of rye this past allocation. 1 went to the bunker. As for the Other 15?

wmpevans
01-26-2012, 06:10
I got one---1---lonely bottle, but I was glad to get it.

SeaninSD
01-29-2012, 08:52
I've never even seen a bottle on the shelf, but did try it for the first time the other night at a bar. Makes me want to find a bottle even more!:grin:

Tico
01-29-2012, 09:29
After being shut out during the most recent release I was able to get my hands on 3 bottles yesterday, all B46**. All are going into the bunker for now, I have way too stuff open and need to work through some of it before I go opening more.

SeaninSD
02-14-2012, 20:36
Anybody have an extra bottle they would like to trade or "trade?" Still have never seen a single bottle on the shelf except at local bar. :smiley_acbt:

Restaurant man
02-15-2012, 19:57
Since it was recently announced that the rye would not be part of the spring release, it worries me that we are getting close to the end of this stuff. I am shocked that Julian isn't charging more than 45$ wholesale in GA.

tommyboy38
02-15-2012, 19:58
I don't think it's ever been a part of the spring release.

CaptainQ
02-15-2012, 20:03
I don't think it's ever been a part of the spring release.

Correct. The rye is a Fall release only.

bourboncc
02-16-2012, 10:00
Well, I struck gold at a liquor store who was on the list of Pappy retailers about 15 minutes from my office. $70 seemed fair since I won't find another bottle on the shelf for quite some time.

https://p.twimg.com/AlyweceCIAAcxnh.jpg

SeaninSD
02-20-2012, 11:03
If anyone would like to help a fellow SB obtain a bottle of VWFRRR, I'm all ears! :grin:

LostBottle
06-15-2012, 16:53
Do the older bottling of the VWFRR lack the small back label like the current bottlings? I came across a C series with no back label and it struck me as a bit funny. The front label also had a lot of glue residue around it, looked pretty sloppy when compared to other bottles I have had. Additionally, there was no laser code on the bottle, but I am assuming this did not come until later when bottled at BT.

yountvillewjs
06-15-2012, 17:51
Do the older bottling of the VWFRR lack the small back label like the current bottlings? I came across a C series with no back label and it struck me as a bit funny. The front label also had a lot of glue residue around it, looked pretty sloppy when compared to other bottles I have had. Additionally, there was no laser code on the bottle, but I am assuming this did not come until later when bottled at BT.

I'd love to see a pic of this btl

BFerguson
06-15-2012, 18:30
Label could have fell off, I have one that the front label is barely holding on by a small dab of glue. Looking at it, there was hardly any glue on the thing. I've had some others that had spotty quality in labeling.

B

Tico
06-15-2012, 21:20
Do the older bottling of the VWFRR lack the small back label like the current bottlings? I came across a C series with no back label and it struck me as a bit funny. The front label also had a lot of glue residue around it, looked pretty sloppy when compared to other bottles I have had. Additionally, there was no laser code on the bottle, but I am assuming this did not come until later when bottled at BT.

Sounds like the old lettering series before they started over again.

LostBottle
06-15-2012, 22:25
Sounds like the old lettering series before they started over again.

Yeah, it would have to be. The bottles I picked up this year had a B label. The bottle would appear to have been from around 2001. If legit, this would mean it is 16 year Medley.

LikeItWasSodaPop
06-16-2012, 01:20
I have a few VWFRR where the labels (front especially) look like they were put on by a glue stick. A few of the labels were re-affixed w/ Scotch tape. In fact, a couple bottles of VWFRR I've seen at Twisted Spoke also have Scotch tape on the labels.

I emailed a photo of my glue stick bottle to Julian and he emailed the following day explaining they had some issues with label affixing a couple years back. These seem to be 2009ish bottles.

The Boozer
06-16-2012, 06:32
Yeah, it would have to be. The bottles I picked up this year had a B label. The bottle would appear to have been from around 2001. If legit, this would mean it is 16 year Medley.

Your bottle may be one of the newer ones. Picked up several "B" bottles after BT went back to the beginning of the alphabet.

LostBottle
06-16-2012, 07:11
Boozer, you are exactly right about the lettering - the way I worded my post was very confusing. The bottles from this year are the reused series B, which is the latest. There is no reused series C yet. This means the bottle without the rear label, if legit, would have to be from around 2001.

BradleyC
06-16-2012, 09:42
Boozer, you are exactly right about the lettering - the way I worded my post was very confusing. The bottles from this year are the reused series B, which is the latest. There is no reused series C yet. This means the bottle without the rear label, if legit, would have to be from around 2001.

Does the label say Frankfort or Lawrenceburg? If you have a Lawrenceburg it is definitely an older bottle. I have a "C" bottle from L'burg (I guess this is a case of label run over if it is in fact from 2001). It has a govt warning sticker on the back and a small ball code. The back stickers are different than what is on the current bottles. This bottle also came with a hangtag that had a small plastic bag with some rye grain stapled to it.

Tico
06-16-2012, 12:07
Yeah, it would have to be. The bottles I picked up this year had a B label. The bottle would appear to have been from around 2001. If legit, this would mean it is 16 year Medley.

According to recent interviews with Julian the rye is still tanked medley/COK

LostBottle
06-16-2012, 13:25
According to recent interviews with Julian the rye is still tanked medley/COK

Yeah, again the way I phrased that paragraph was poor and made it a bit confusing - I blame the WT101 I was sipping on! The bottles that were available this year were the B "2.0" series. You are exactly right that this was tanked Medley/CoK that is probably 18-19 years old. As of now, the C series has only been used once and that was around 2001 or so (although I would expect a new C series shows up this Fall). This is a different whiskey and is thought to be a pre-tanked and younger Medley of around 16 years of age. It sounds like people that have had it say it tastes a bit different from the newer stuff.

Bradley, that C series bottle label said it was from Frankfort, not Lawrenceburg.

White Dog
06-17-2012, 15:03
Having some for father's day. Tell me, is there a better American Whiskey?? Of current releases, I'm not sure.

tanstaafl2
11-11-2012, 17:53
Can't find it now so I put it here but I seem to recall reading recently that someone speculated that VWFRR tasted different now than it did in older bottlings and that perhaps BT was "supplementing" what is in the tank with other BT rye. Anybody else recall that or remember reading a recent post about that?

Since the label says 13yo rye I presume anything added, if it were in fact true, would have to be at least 13yo rye, correct? Does BT even have any 13yo rye in the warehouse? If so, wouldn't it be most likely intended for the replacement of Saz 18? Although I would suppose they would be working on a replacement for the VWFRR as well? Most likely the same stuff?

ChainWhip
11-11-2012, 18:56
Here is a recent one by TimD:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18670

Another by StraightNoChaser:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=293565

I'm interested in this subject also as this is the first year I've been able to source VWFRR.

tanstaafl2
11-11-2012, 21:15
Here is a recent one by TimD:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18670

Another by StraightNoChaser:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=293565

I'm interested in this subject also as this is the first year I've been able to source VWFRR.

Thanks. The first one was the one I was trying to locate. The second link also helps remind me that the last report we have on VWFRR was that it was still the same stuff according to those who should know (which doesn't necessarily mean it is I suppose).

I know Winkle World is always a hot button topic but it was a curiosity that at least some thought the rye had changed over time. I suppose tank life ain't all it's cracked up to be and perhaps that alone could be having an impact on the taste profile.

That said, what I have had in the past was delightful and I would likely still buy a bottle or three given the opportunity.

angler82
11-12-2012, 06:12
Looking for a little insight.

In January 2012 I purchased two bottles of VWFRR while in England. Bottle has an "A" code. Frankfort, KY.

In November 2011 I purchased a bottle of VWFRR in the US. Bottle has an "B" code. Frankfort, KY.

I know it is silly to try and determine the meaning behind the VW bottle numbers but the differences between the two bottles is pretty staggering.

The VWFRR (A bottle) from England has a weird chemical after taste to it. The VWFRR (B bottle) from the US has a taste that matches what I've had at various bars over the past few years.

Anybody notice a big difference between A and B bottles? Could the shipping to Europe mess with the contents? Was last years bottling part of new stock?

Not trying to stir up anything, just looking for feedback.

LostBottle
11-12-2012, 08:40
On his WhiskeyWonka (http://whiskeywonka.com/2011/12/12/van-winkle-family-reserve-rye/) site, Aaron also noted he thought there was a big difference between the A and B bottlings.

ChainWhip
11-12-2012, 20:37
Curious how the new "C" stacks up.

That WhiskyWonka blog made it seem like the 2011 was better - I wonder why that is.

LostBottle
11-16-2012, 17:59
Curious how the new "C" stacks up.

That WhiskyWonka blog made it seem like the 2011 was better - I wonder why that is.

If you want to try your 'C' next to last years 'B', let me know and we can arrange a tasting.

ChainWhip
11-16-2012, 19:31
If you want to try your 'C' next to last years 'B', let me know and we can arrange a tasting.

You got it - I mule it back from my brother's in mid January.

skidfive
12-06-2012, 17:05
Has anyone noticed (or maybe I have a weird bottle) that this years C bottling now has a Buffalo Trace bottle stamp while last years B bottling did not have a stamp at all?

my C2733 bottle has B1210910:03M on it

ethangsmith
12-06-2012, 17:32
I know there's some way to translate those stamps. How does that one break down? I'll have to check my bottle to see what the stamp on it says....

Tico
12-06-2012, 17:32
Has anyone noticed (or maybe I have a weird bottle) that this years C bottling now has a Buffalo Trace bottle stamp while last years B bottling did not have a stamp at all?

my C2733 bottle has B1210910:03M on it
i think there was an issue with last years bottle code, most of mine wound up behind the label

skidfive
12-06-2012, 17:47
I thought it broke down as 12 = 2012 109 = 109th day 10:03 = 10:03am dont know what the letters mean though.

Tico - That could be possible, I tried to look through with a light but didnt see anything. did think it was weird that it wouldnt have one.

HP12
12-06-2012, 17:50
I thought it broke down as 12 = 2012 109 = 109th day 10:03 = 10:03am dont know what the letters mean though.

Tico - That could be possible, I tried to look through with a light but didnt see anything. did think it was weird that it wouldnt have one.

Letter = Bottling Line

LostBottle
12-06-2012, 18:49
I just checked a Fall 2011 VEFRR and there is no code; the 20 from the same release has one of the old versions.

HighInTheMtns
12-06-2012, 18:52
I have a bottle from 2008 that has a code. Wonder what was different in 2011.

LostBottle
12-06-2012, 19:27
I have a bottle from 2008 that has a code. Wonder what was different in 2011.

It was probably a machine malfunction or a mistake by the person operating it.

Hershmeister
12-08-2012, 18:45
Amazing service from a local store who kept my name on a list - woo hoo!

ChainWhip
12-08-2012, 19:06
That's great news!!! My bottle is sitting a few of thousand miles away but hope to mule it back soon.

Special Reserve
12-09-2012, 05:52
That's a nice score.

HP12
12-09-2012, 07:55
Amazing service from a local store who kept my name on a list - woo hoo!

Its nice when a retailer honors their lists. Nice score indeed. Enjoy what is arguably one of the more elusive expressions in the VW line.

rjboatwright
12-09-2012, 09:32
Congrats! I had the same thing happen to me. I put my name on a list back during the spring and a couple weeks ago they called me and told me that I had won the "Pappy Lottery". I'm thinking, "hell yeah"! They gave me a choice of ORVW 10 yr, VWFR Lot B, or the VWFR. To me it was a no-brainer and the rye was my pick. I couldn't believe no one else picked it since I was the 8th person on the list. Needless to say, that store has won my business for years to come.

squire
12-09-2012, 10:13
Shows the value of cultivating those relationships.

Hershmeister
12-09-2012, 11:11
I think the rye is not on most folks rader. It doesn't say pappy in the name and rye is still a cult following in most places.

I think it tastes nothing like a rye and an amazing flavor unlike anything else I've ever had

Special Reserve
12-09-2012, 13:12
A local store told me that the hardest score was the rye. Comparatively, rye is hot these days, but not everybody is interested in it.

squire
12-09-2012, 16:17
I remember when the Rye sat on the shelves year round, seems like it has always been the neglected one. It's actually my pick of the bunch.

WAINWRIGHT
12-09-2012, 18:26
Amazing service from a local store who kept my name on a list - woo hoo!
Glad to see when the honor's system works and a store truly comes through,I managed a rye and several other VW products this same way.I always give these chosen stores my business time and time again for this very reason.

tommyboy38
12-09-2012, 21:02
I was able to find the rye as well and the stores that took care of me will get a lot of business from me.
The other stores that I've bought VW from in the past (along with a lot of other bottles) were useless.
I would have been happy if they said it's all spoken for but they lied or ignored and won't be getting my $$ in the future.

Rockefeller
12-10-2012, 08:49
1) I can't believe this is it's own thread

2) In NYC, Pappy 15 is the most difficult to find. I think I've been able to find/buy two bottles of the Rye for every PVW15.

3) Thinking of giving some whiskey as a Christmas gift. Would you rather receive a Lot B or a WLW?

mosugoji64
12-10-2012, 08:55
I was able to find the rye as well and the stores that took care of me will get a lot of business from me.
The other stores that I've bought VW from in the past (along with a lot of other bottles) were useless.
I would have been happy if they said it's all spoken for but they lied or ignored and won't be getting my $$ in the future.

I'm with you on this one. Two local stores have earned my business by communicating with me and being up front when they do so. The others won't see me again.



3) Thinking of giving some whiskey as a Christmas gift. Would you rather receive a Lot B or a WLW?

WLW gets my vote. I can water it down on my own. :grin:

squire
12-10-2012, 09:53
WLW, certainly, if my choice is between the two.

ChainWhip
12-10-2012, 10:16
WLW for me as well - I had a 2011 Master of Malt sample & it blew me away

tanstaafl2
12-10-2012, 11:19
Well, color me surprised! After getting the opportunity to buy the one bottle of Jeff Ocean that made it to my favorite store I knew and accepted I was moving down to the bottom of the list for both BTAC and VW this year, especially given how limited allocations seemed to be.

But I still managed to pick up a 2012 WLW from them a while back when one bottle went unclaimed and now I get word that a bottle of VWFRR is available and has my name on it. Adding in the generosity of a fellow SBer in helping me acquire a PVW20 from a different source at roughly retail cost and it has been a pretty decent fall after all!

Bourserker
12-16-2012, 12:14
I don't know if this the secret password to join club or not, but I obtained my first bottle of this. My mom was able to get it at a store in another state. She knows the owner, and he had one in the back he sold her. Don't you just love mothers. The bottle is a "C" bottle with the BT stamp on it so I'm assuming it's pretty recent. I'd like to pop it open, but I have a ton of other stuff open and lots of stuff in the queue. So I think I'll just tuck it away for a bit...my preciousssss.

squire
12-16-2012, 12:58
That last sentence alone is worth a membership.

Old Lamplighter
12-16-2012, 17:54
I'm so sick from not being able to find even 1 bottle this year that I just can't even bring myself to talk about it anymore....:smil41df29a15fb35:

LostBottle
12-30-2012, 16:30
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u415/elttob/VWFRRBvsC_zps5246e468.jpg

Afraid to crack open that precious bottle of Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye? Not me! The other night CaptainQ and I put the VWFRR B and C bottlings head to head. I also did it again this afternoon to ensure my palate did not change; the results were the same. While close, there were differences in the bottlings. The C bottle was open about a week prior to this tasting and the B bottle was open about three weeks, I do not think oxidation was a factor.

Color: The color is exactly the same – they are both a nice dark russet color.

Nose: The difference on the nose of these two releases was the first thing that tipped me there might be some differences. While the profiles were close, the difference was in how much more open and fragrant the B bottling was. The B bottle had a lot of tobacco and wood scent in the mix, really outstanding. In comparison, the C bottling was much more subdued and closed; it did not quite inspire the wow factor that the B did.

Palate: The B bottling packed a stellar amount of creeping rye spice and a little of that rough around the edges characteristic I appreciate in a good rye. The C bottling was a bit smoother overall, which some might appreciate. The C lacked some of the spiciness of the B, but it showed a touch more sweetness in the form of noticeable dark fruit characteristics. VWFRR is known for being quite creamy, and they both faired well in that regard, neither one seemed hotter or thinner than the other.

Finish: The B bottling had an impeccable finish with the spice fading to wood and a hint of dark cherry. For me, the finish on the C bottling had more “green wood” taste to it than the B - the C seemed a touch more bitter.

Overall, the B bottle gets my nod. However, I have to stress that the differences, while present, are subtle - unless the two were had at the same sitting, it would be nearly impossible to tell. While I did not think tanked whiskey changed enough to be noticeable, apparently it does. I think a future tasting will involve a couple different years of Saz18 to see if I pick up differences there too.

HP12
12-30-2012, 18:43
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u415/elttob/VWFRRBvsC_zps5246e468.jpg

Afraid to crack open that precious bottle of Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye? Not me! The other night CaptainQ I put the VWFRR B and C bottlings head to head. I also did it again this afternoon to ensure my palate did not change; the results were the same. While close, there were differences in the bottlings. The C bottle was open about a week prior to this tasting and the B bottle was open about three weeks, I do not think oxidation was a factor.

Color: The color is exactly the same – they are both a nice dark russet color.

Nose: The difference on the nose of these two releases was the first thing that tipped me there might be some differences. While the profiles were close, the difference was in how much more open and fragrant the B bottling was. The B bottle had a lot of tobacco and wood scent in the mix, really outstanding. In comparison, the C bottling was much more subdued and closed; it did not quite inspire the wow factor that the B did.

Palate: The B bottling packed a stellar amount of creeping rye spice and a little of that rough around the edges characteristic I appreciate in a good rye. The C bottling was a bit smoother overall, which some might appreciate. The C lacked some of the spiciness of the B, but it showed a touch more sweetness in the form of noticeable dark fruit characteristics. VWFRR is known for being quite creamy, and they both faired well in that regard, neither one seemed hotter or thinner than the other.

Finish: The B bottling had an impeccable finish with the spice fading to wood and a hint of dark cherry. For me, the finish on the C bottling had more “green wood” taste to it than the B - the C seemed a touch more bitter.

Overall, the B bottle gets my nod. However, I have to stress that the differences, while present, are subtle - unless the two were had at the same sitting, it would be nearly impossible to tell. While I did not think tanked whiskey changed enough to be noticeable, apparently it does. I think a future tasting will involve a couple different years of Saz18 to see if I pick up differences there too.

A very educational SBS of 'B' and 'C'. Sounds like the 'B' bottling may have benefited from a little air time? Great to see the distinguished palate of "The Capt'n" present! :grin:

ChainWhip
12-30-2012, 21:50
Thx for the comparison! I'm looking forward to opening my bottle in a few weeks.

Tico
12-31-2012, 08:41
Nice work Lost, thanks for the compare!

johnnyboots
01-10-2013, 06:53
I was fortunate to find a couple of these in Florida. Thank god my scouts (friends who dont drink what I like) found some for me. I over paid for them but don't really care. I've never seen a bottle on a shelf anywhere and now that I'm in NC all the pappy goes to the restaurants so it's even harder.

Loved the maple and spice on the the rye, mine are all B bottles.

squire
01-10-2013, 07:17
Hey Johnny, welcome aboard, drop by the introduction forum and introduce yourself.

fussychicken
01-05-2014, 22:56
Howdy all, its been a while, but I did a little more homework, and made an update to the chart. Too bad I haven't been able to get any of this in the last 3 years!!!

michaelturtle1
01-06-2014, 06:23
There were some "c" and "d" bottles released this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Old Dusty
01-06-2014, 07:52
There were some "c" and "d" bottles released this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

I got a C from 2012 so they really stretched out that bottling run. Bottle code is different from the VW bourbons. Mine just says "B1211" Assume this is Nov of 12?

Old Dusty
01-06-2014, 07:57
Howdy all, its been a while, but I did a little more homework, and made an update to the chart. Too bad I haven't been able to get any of this in the last 3 years!!!

Thanks for the original and the update!

tanstaafl2
01-06-2014, 14:06
Harlan Wheatley stated that BT rye was already being blended into the VWFRR, perhaps as early as 2012, but certainly last year. Take it for what it is worth. No indication given of the percentages but BT has almost certainly been making rye since before 2004. Handy has been around since 2006 and that one was distilled in 1998 so easily could have 13yo+ rye on hand. Seems reasonable as that would pretty much match up with 2012/2013.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?11718-BTAC-Info-Sheet-Thread&p=158942&viewfull=1#post158942

I have a C from 2012 and a D from 2013 but haven't tried the D yet.