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burbankbrewer
01-20-2008, 13:53
I ask you, why is it when you tell the waiter at a high end restaurant you want a rye manhattan, two times, with only one ice cube, you get a glass fulll of ice. Why don't bartenders know how to make the drink even when you tell them what you want?

Rughi
01-20-2008, 14:14
I was at a good restaurant last night that took it upon themselves to transform my drink of "Booker's - straight up" to an ice-diluted and strained "martini glass" concoction. The waiter swore that was what "up" meant.

I had to negotiate with him how I could ask for a drink which consisted of "open bottle, pour into glass - no more, no less." He allowed that I could order it "neat" - which to me had always meant the same as "straight up" except that it was more Britty.

Communication isn't always so easy...

Roger

boone
01-20-2008, 14:33
Roger,

Refer this link http://www.proprofs.com/flashcards/cardshow.php?cardid=14041&quesnum=43

to him :grin:


I was at a good restaurant last night that took it upon themselves to transform my drink of "Booker's - straight up" to an ice-diluted and strained "martini glass" concoction. The waiter swore that was what "up" meant.

I had to negotiate with him how I could ask for a drink which consisted of "open bottle, pour into glass - no more, no less." He allowed that I could order it "neat" - which to me had always meant the same as "straight up" except that it was more Britty.

Communication isn't always so easy...

Roger

ILLfarmboy
01-20-2008, 14:56
Roger, Your story of the martini glass reminded me of a recent incident at a Red Lobster in Davenport IA. I know, chain restaurants usually aren't the best, but I live in a rural area. Anyhow, we took a seat at the bar as we waited for a table. I asked for a Glenlivet 12 neat. The bartender, a young girl, was confused. I explained what neat meant. It took a little while to sink in and then to my surprise she grabbed a martini glass and asked me, almost as an afterthought, "in a glass like this?". I corrected her and asked for it in a tumbler. She still looked confused so I to pointed to one, the one right in front of me being used as a large tooth pick holder. She proceeded to pour a scant amount of whiskey using one of those one ounce, or maybe they are one and a quarter oz. shotglases (I think they are called pony shots, I'm not sure) as a measure. And then wanted to charge me for the price of a double. She wanted to, but after a short discussion with another bartender, perhaps her supervisor, she didn't. I was trying to be polite about the whole thing but she must have thought I was being an incorrigible ass.

spun_cookie
01-20-2008, 15:45
I ask you, why is it when you tell the waiter at a high end restaurant you want a rye manhattan, two times, with only one ice cube, you get a glass fulll of ice. Why don't bartenders know how to make the drink even when you tell them what you want?

Because most the damn time they are not listening... and the rest of the time, the bartender is not listing to the waiter...

I have discovered when i want my drink different than how the masses want it, I go to the bar tender directly and tell them what I am looking for... after that I usually can get the drink the way I want to all night without error...

Half the time I tell them neat... it comes out with a blizzard worth of ice... I just spoon the ice out if I do not plan on having more than one... to much trouble to teach everyone to listen:hot: ... let your tip be their education... education is not free:grin:

ratcheer
01-20-2008, 18:32
I ask you, why is it when you tell the waiter at a high end restaurant you want a rye manhattan, two times, with only one ice cube, you get a glass fulll of ice. Why don't bartenders know how to make the drink even when you tell them what you want?

If I ordered a drink at a high end place and specified how I wanted it and it came differently, I would send it back and refuse to pay for it. Then, if it were truly a high end place, they would correct their mistake.

Tim

Jake_Parrott
01-20-2008, 19:11
I was at a good restaurant last night that took it upon themselves to transform my drink of "Booker's - straight up" to an ice-diluted and strained "martini glass" concoction. The waiter swore that was what "up" meant.
Sorry, Rog. That's what it means to the great majority of barkeeps. "Neat" is what you wanted.

smokinjoe
01-20-2008, 19:32
Sorry, Rog. That's what it means to the great majority of barkeeps. "Neat" is what you wanted.

Jake, are you saying that the majority of barkeeps, when requested to pour a drink "straight up", will pour what Roger ended up getting? Or, am I misreading this? Good gosh, "straight up" has been around, like, forever!. What nitwit bartending school decided to change it? If I ask for my Manhattan "stirred", I wonder what I'll get then? Something frozen out of a blender? Interestingly enough, I gave up some time ago asking for my bourbon "neat", because I got this dazed, glassy eyed look of noncomprehension. So, I went back to "straight up". I think I'm batting almost 1.000 on getting the neat pour.

Cheers! (Cheers! still means Cheers!, right?)

JOE

Jake_Parrott
01-20-2008, 19:43
"Straight up" means chilled and strained into a cocktail glass to pretty much any bartender I've talked to. "Neat" means pour room temp into a short glass.

boone
01-20-2008, 20:00
"Straight up" means chilled and strained into a cocktail glass to pretty much any bartender I've talked to. "Neat" means pour room temp into a short glass.

Bartender School Terminology...these are the terms in the link.



Neat

Another term for a shot. A term referring to liquor that is drunk undiluted by ice, water or mixers "May I have a Crown Royal neat please."




Straight Up

Served without ice. aka as just "Up", different than a "Shot" in that a drink served Straight Up is served in a stemmed glass not a Shot Glass

bigtoys
01-20-2008, 20:16
I hadn't really thought about it, but I do know that I order my martinis "up". I frequently order my bourbon on the rocks when I'm out, but now that I think about it, one of my friends orders scotch "neat".

I looked around the virtual world and that seems to be the consensus.

Up: Drink stirred/shaken with ice and strained into a (usually stemmed) glass. However, I've had bourbon this way; get it cool, but don't keep diluting it and it should probably be in a double old-fashioned.

Neat: Drink poured straight from the bottle at whatever temperature it's stored at. That is, a glass of vodka stored in the freezer is considered neat. Guess the glass should be double old-fashioned.

How many ounces should be in a straight bourbon drink, be it on the rocks or neat? Seems like it should be the same as a martini, since vermouth is a pretty minor ingredient in a 'tini. Around here, the premium brands go for $10 or so. What should we be getting? Seems like some places give around 6 oz. That's a good amount of alcohol, if I'm right.

Jake_Parrott
01-20-2008, 20:45
Standard bar pour is 1.5 ounces. UK standard bar pour is 25mL (doubles are often ordered). Many bars will offer a "martini" pour for gin and vodka that is more than 1.5 ounces (but usually not a double) due to the size of their cocktail glasses (a standard bar pour looks shy in too-large cocktail glasses).

Rughi
01-20-2008, 21:21
I was just standing in line at the Bevmo and leafed through their bartender's guide. The glossary listed straight up as another way of saying neat - no ice, no mixer, just a shot in a stemmed glass.

I wonder if this is a regional difference. I'm so used to bartenders in my area giving me a blank look when I say neat that I've given that up and say straight up. I've never been given a chilled drink from that request before.

My mother-in-law was a bartender in Cambridge, Mass and Idaho and she just told me straight up was a synonym for neat in the places she worked - so it being a regional difference seems even less clear cut and er... neat. ;)

Roger "not stirred not shaken... and no fuckin' ice!" Hodges

Rughi
01-20-2008, 21:32
And of course, when I told my wife about this controversy, she wanted... a Manhattan :lol:

-Shaken, not stirred.
-With Rye - Not Bourbon (not even Grand Dad or 4 Roses) - and especially not a Wheater.
-With Angostura and Orange Bitters.
And 2 Cherries

Yes, Ma'am....

Bye for now,

Roger

gothbat
01-20-2008, 21:53
I always thought that "straight up" meant neat but I guess I've just been lucky. The only time I've had a problem using "neat" was on an airplane, I said I was going to drink the mini neat and the steward handed me a cup with ice along with it. Could have been worse... (Like the time I ordered "a bourbon" at the AC Tropicana, the girl came back with a cup that was 1/3 bourbon and 2/3 water...)
I don't drink at bars often but in my experience most bartenders don't know what's what these days. Most of the times I ask what kinds of bourbon they have and the first bottle they'll list is Jack Daniels...

ILLfarmboy
01-20-2008, 22:34
I was just standing in line at the Bevmo and leafed through their bartender's guide. The glossary listed straight up as another way of saying neat - no ice, no mixer, just a shot in a stemmed glass.

I wonder if this is a regional difference. I'm so used to bartenders in my area giving me a blank look when I say neat that I've given that up and say straight up. I've never been given a chilled drink from that request before.

My mother-in-law was a bartender in Cambridge, Mass and Idaho and she just told me straight up was a synonym for neat in the places she worked - so it being a regional difference seems even less clear cut and er... neat. ;)

Roger "not stirred not shaken... and no fuckin' ice!" Hodges

It was always my understanding that "straight up" originally meant shaken or stirred with ice and then strained into a glass but has been corrupted to mean a synonym for neat when asking for just whiskey. I have even had bartenders who were unfamiliar with the term "neat" exclaim most people just ask for it "straight up" when that's the way they want it.

Like you I have almost given up and started saying "straight up". But I'm horribly stubborn, intractable and resistant to change. Just ask my wife.:grin:

burbankbrewer
01-21-2008, 05:16
If I ordered a drink at a high end place and specified how I wanted it and it came differently, I would send it back and refuse to pay for it. Then, if it were truly a high end place, they would correct their mistake.

Tim

I was at a christmas party and didn't feel like waiting for another. The place was packed. The drink tasted good and I took out the ice. I 'm thinking of making cards to give when I go out, or tell em, if it's not the way I ordered it, someone else is drinkin it, cause it aint gonna be me.

Jake_Parrott
01-21-2008, 05:39
It was always my understanding that "straight up" originally meant shaken or stirred with ice and then strained into a glass but has been corrupted to mean a synonym for neat when asking for just whiskey.
Methinks this fellow has hit the nail on the head. "Straight up" has become another way of asking for cold gin or vodka (i.e., no vermouth) in a cocktail glass (which is not called a "martini glass").

So few people drink whiskey neat in bars that I imagine a lot of bartenders might do a double take at either "straight up" or "neat."

burbankbrewer
01-21-2008, 06:37
They had me until they garnished with lemon but I'm gonna try it. The mechanics look sound.

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-make-a-manhattan

ratcheer
01-21-2008, 08:04
I don't drink at bars often but in my experience most bartenders don't know what's what these days. Most of the times I ask what kinds of bourbon they have and the first bottle they'll list is Jack Daniels...

I agree 100%. Most bartenders these days have next to no knowledge of classic cocktails, liquors, and bar methods. It is all about fancy modern "cocktails" that aren't even really cocktails.

In my experience, "straight up" and "neat" have meant exactly the same thing. But, I am an old fashioned old timer.

Tim

barturtle
01-21-2008, 08:26
The only time "up" should mean chilled, is when you order a Martini or Manhattan (or Rob Roy, if you lean that way) and the bartender wants to know if you want it on the rocks or not.

cowdery
01-21-2008, 10:21
I, too, grew up thinking "straight up" and "neat" mean the same thing. However, I've also been taught that no two words have the exact same meaning. Straight up, as Bettye Jo's link shows, primarily means served without ice, which could mean no ice ever touches the drink, but could also mean a drink stirred or shaken with ice and strained, so there's no ice in the drink as served. I think the meaning did change somewhere along the way. I noticed I was having trouble with "straight up" and so now tend to use "neat" and if that draws a blank, I say something like "just whiskey in a glass please, no water, no ice." Then there usually is a discussion about what kind of glass, since many (again, as noted above) equate "neat" with "shot," the default usually is a shot glass. Sometimes it's a snifter. Sometimes it's something like a rocks glass, which is my preference. Here in Chicago I find most bartenders to be pretty good about it. Here at least there seem to be enough people ordering whiskey and even vodka this way. Since most people understand "shot," you might try ordering a shot of whiskey, "but put it in that kind of glass," and point to an example. The hardest thing does seem to get them to not put ice in it.

I do like to go into a bar and say, "Knob Creek neat with a beer back," because it seems like you're speaking in code. I like it even better when it works without additional questioning.

OscarV
01-21-2008, 15:26
I have always thought "straight up" meant a mixed drink that has been strained of it's ice.
And "neat" was just poured from a bottle and never had anything added to it.
I got this notion from movies and TV, I never had any experience with either coming up as I was a hard core beer drinker.

brian12069
02-17-2008, 16:20
I was at a good restaurant last night that took it upon themselves to transform my drink of "Booker's - straight up" to an ice-diluted and strained "martini glass" concoction. The waiter swore that was what "up" meant.

I had to negotiate with him how I could ask for a drink which consisted of "open bottle, pour into glass - no more, no less." He allowed that I could order it "neat" - which to me had always meant the same as "straight up" except that it was more Britty.

Communication isn't always so easy...

Roger

I would have to say "neat" is the way to go. Straight up? and bourbon? I don't hear it ordered that way around here. That even sounds kind of strange to me. I usually hear bourbon ordered "neat" or "on the rocks."

ratcheer
02-17-2008, 17:26
I ask you, why is it when you tell the waiter at a high end restaurant you want a rye manhattan, two times, with only one ice cube, you get a glass fulll of ice. Why don't bartenders know how to make the drink even when you tell them what you want?

Tell them it is not what you ordered and send it back.

Tim

MrAtomic
02-17-2008, 19:37
I had a similar experience last Thursday, when I asked a bartender for a Knob Creek, neat. When she looked confused, I repeated, "neat," to which she replied, "so you just want a shot"? I explained that I wanted room-temperature whiskey, preferably poured into a tumbler, or something a bit more forgiving than a shot glass loaded to the rim. It turned out to be a funny interaction -- I had to explain that it feels a bit low-rent to sip whiskey out of a little shot glass (I hope that doesn't mark me out as a snob). We ended up talking for a few minutes about this and that, and she poured me a drink of Fernet Branca, on the house. I've wanted to taste Fernet for quite a while but have been unwilling to buy a whole bottle. Long story short -- it is an intriguing concoction reminiscent of Vicks Vapo-Rub, Chartreuse, and bitters. I still had the taste in my mouth ten minutes after leaving the bar. While that might sound repellent, I'm probably going to buy a bottle, if only to see whether I'm capable of developing a taste for it.

ILLfarmboy
02-17-2008, 22:56
On the subject of drinks I shoulda sent back, I once ordered a Manhattan and got some concoction of bourbon and Grenadine garnished with a cherry.:rolleyes:

robbyvirus
02-17-2008, 23:04
Speaking of bad bartenders, check out the "How to make a Daquiri" instructional video posted on this guy's blog. Pretty hilarious...No wonder it's so hard to get a good Manhatten:

http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/

ILLfarmboy
02-17-2008, 23:36
Speaking of bad bartenders, check out the "How to make a Daquiri" instructional video posted on this guy's blog. Pretty hilarious...No wonder it's so hard to get a good Manhatten:

http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/

Its never a good sign when your bartender starts picking his nose.

smokinjoe
02-18-2008, 04:24
I had a similar experience last Thursday, when I asked a bartender for a Knob Creek, neat. When she looked confused, I repeated, "neat," to which she replied, "so you just want a shot"? I explained that I wanted room-temperature whiskey, preferably poured into a tumbler, or something a bit more forgiving than a shot glass loaded to the rim. It turned out to be a funny interaction -- I had to explain that it feels a bit low-rent to sip whiskey out of a little shot glass (I hope that doesn't mark me out as a snob). We ended up talking for a few minutes about this and that, and she poured me a drink of Fernet Branca, on the house. I've wanted to taste Fernet for quite a while but have been unwilling to buy a whole bottle. Long story short -- it is an intriguing concoction reminiscent of Vicks Vapo-Rub, Chartreuse, and bitters. I still had the taste in my mouth ten minutes after leaving the bar. While that might sound repellent, I'm probably going to buy a bottle, if only to see whether I'm capable of developing a taste for it.

Hee Hee. That's why I went to "straight up", from "neat", a few years back. I haven't seemed to have the problems since. Have been successful in getting a neat pour in a nice glass. Go figure.

As far as the Fernet Branca, there was an article in the Atlanta paper regarding this and Coca Cola. It seems that in Argentina, Fernet Branca mixed with Coke is a huge cocktail down there. Particularly with the younger crowd. I think Argentina is FB's biggest market. Coke is very successful there, as well.

Cheers!

JOE

dcb
02-18-2008, 06:36
I always just say "no ice", and usually say it twice to make sure they heard me in what is usually a noisy environment. I don't think 'no ice' can be misunderstood so if I *do* get served something poured over ice, I can comfortably say it's not what I ordered. Also, in restaurants when the waiter asks about drinks I say just the water for now, thanks, and then go get my drink at the bar myself after ordering the food. Call me paranoid, but I wanna see what I'm getting..

jburlowski
02-18-2008, 10:34
Its never a good sign when your bartender starts picking his nose.

...and then stirs your drink with his finger.

cowdery
02-19-2008, 13:30
"Just whiskey in a glass" seems to work best for me when "neat" produces a blank stare.

Attila
11-09-2008, 21:42
It seems like no one is distinguishing between "Straight" and "Straight up"

To me both mean without ice. However, adding "up" at the end denotes how one prepares a martini (i.e. shaken). Otherwise why would you possibly add up following Straight?

And if I get something I didnt order, its always on the house. And I usually drink it until they get my order right.

ILLfarmboy
11-09-2008, 21:57
It seems like no one is distinguishing between "Straight" and "Straight up"

To me both mean without ice. However, adding "up" at the end denotes how one prepares a martini (i.e. shaken). Otherwise why would you possibly add up following Straight?



That makes perfect sense, Attila.

If I wasn't lazy about It. I have a copy of the OED around here somewhere. The one that has nine pages micrograpgicaly reduced and printed on a single page. You use a dome magnifying glass to read it. I wonder if there is an entry for "straight up" and a citation of its first known use in print.

burbankbrewer
11-10-2008, 05:24
I always just say "no ice", and usually say it twice to make sure they heard me in what is usually a noisy environment. I don't think 'no ice' can be misunderstood so if I *do* get served something poured over ice, I can comfortably say it's not what I ordered. Also, in restaurants when the waiter asks about drinks I say just the water for now, thanks, and then go get my drink at the bar myself after ordering the food. Call me paranoid, but I wanna see what I'm getting..

I'll take a chance on the drink order, what about the food?

chefnash51
11-10-2008, 05:49
Bartender School Terminology...these are the terms in the link.

Straight Up


Served without ice. aka as just "Up", different than a "Shot" in that a drink served Straight Up is served in a stemmed glass not a Shot Glass




I have to say, that every bartender and bar I know around my parts refers to "Up" or "straight up" as:
A drink served straight up or up is one in which the ingredients are chilled in a cocktail shaker and strained into a glass.

http://cocktails.about.com/od/cocktailspeak/g/straight_up.htm


"Up or on the rocks" being the most common question from a bartender if you order a whiskey without specifying. I always order mine "neat" often with a splash of water. Or I just get a water on the side and add my own if needed.

kickert
11-10-2008, 10:48
It seems like no one is distinguishing between "Straight" and "Straight up"


I was thinking the same thing. I have ordered bourbon "straight" but never "straight up" (of course that could be because I don't like ending my sentances with prepositions).

I am curious what Mr. Cowdery was refering to when he called his book "Bourbon, Straight." Surely he was not referring to a strainer and a cocktail glass.

ILLfarmboy
11-10-2008, 10:54
..I am curious what Mr. Cowdery was refering to when he called his book "Bourbon, Straight." Surely he was not referring to a strainer and a cocktail glass.

I think he meant "straight" as in straight whiskey as apposed to blended. as well as a bit of a play on words, as in the straight dope.....

callmeox
11-10-2008, 20:18
I am curious what Mr. Cowdery was refering to when he called his book "Bourbon, Straight." Surely he was not referring to a strainer and a cocktail glass.

Focus groups agreed that "Bourbon, Straight" sounded much better than "Just Bourbon in a Glass". :lol:


Scott

kickert
11-10-2008, 20:33
Focus groups agreed that "Bourbon, Straight" sounded much better than "Just Bourbon in a Glass". :lol:


Scott

When I read that title, I emphasize the pause, like I am ordering.

"I will take a bourbon..... straight." Then if I get the weird look I can say "Just bourbon in a glass."

cowdery
11-11-2008, 13:49
"Straight" or "straight up" usually refers to a mixed drink of some sort that is chilled but served without ice. My use of "Bourbon, straight," was meant as a play on Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, but with the "straight talk" double meaning.

"Whiskey in a glass" is more reliably ordered as "neat." If that order produces a blank look, I say, "just whiskey in a glass."

shyster512
11-11-2008, 14:35
Does a "shot of whiskey" imply anything other that neat?

jburlowski
11-11-2008, 14:47
That makes perfect sense, Attila.

If I wasn't lazy about It. I have a copy of the OED around here somewhere. The one that has nine pages micrograpgicaly reduced and printed on a single page. You use a dome magnifying glass to read it. I wonder if there is an entry for "straight up" and a citation of its first known use in print.

I tried to help Brad, but I don't have an on-line subscrption to the OED. A Google search led to numerous links to Paula Abdul, which led me to my bar for some Lot B, which led me to lose further interest.

I believe it is some sort of primal defense mechanism....

cowdery
11-11-2008, 16:05
Does a "shot of whiskey" imply anything other that neat?

It implies that you want it served in a shot glass, which I usually don't like.

stoopsie
11-15-2008, 03:15
"Straight" or "straight up" usually refers to a mixed drink of some sort that is chilled but served without ice. My use of "Bourbon, straight," was meant as a play on Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, but with the "straight talk" double meaning"

And all this time I thought the book meant Bourbon, Not Gay :rolleyes:

Howie

cowdery
11-17-2008, 22:02
Not that there's anything wrong with that.