PDA

View Full Version : The Authority Cited



smokinjoe
03-28-2008, 11:58
While perusing the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's OP-ED area, I came across a reference to Chuck Cowdery's book, "Bourbon Straight: The Uncut and Unfiltered Story of American Whiskey", complete with a picture of the books cover. :) The Governor of Georgia, Sonny Perdue, wrote an opinion column in today's AJC, expressing his view against legalizing Sunday alcohol sales in Georgia. At the top of page A13, the paper has a blurb on how to get more information on the subject. They direct the reader to two ONLINE references, and one BOOK reference--Chuck's! I think that's pretty cool! :cool: Congratulations!

:toast:

JOE

sku
03-28-2008, 13:13
Very cool. What were the websites?

And why is the Governor of Georgia such a killjoy?

CorvallisCracker
03-28-2008, 13:23
And why is the Governor of Georgia such a killjoy?

You've never spent any time in the Bible Belt, have you?

Seriously, don't get me started.

sku
03-28-2008, 13:28
I've lived in Louisiana, but I actually think you're required to buy alcohol on Sunday there, from a drive-thru if possible.

smokinjoe
03-28-2008, 14:05
Very cool. What were the websites?

And why is the Governor of Georgia such a killjoy?

Perdue is definitely a Bible Belt Guvnuh. His prayer for rain last November, on the steps of the State Capitol, during the drought, made national news. Also, supposedly on the list of potential McCain running mates. Despite his position on Sunday alcohol sales, he has been a pretty effective governor of the state.

View his column at:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/03/28/perdueed0328.html

The online references were:

www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2006/sunday-alcohol-related.html

and,

www.emedicinehealth.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=76742

JOE

CorvallisCracker
03-28-2008, 15:12
Back to the subject of the original post, I suppose I should buy Chuck's book. I'd put it on my Birthday list, but that's six months away...

ILLfarmboy
03-28-2008, 19:25
Perdue is definitely a Bible Belt Guvnuh. His prayer for rain last November, on the steps of the State Capitol, during the drought, made national news. Also, supposedly on the list of potential McCain running mates. Despite his position on Sunday alcohol sales, he has been a pretty effective governor of the state.

View his column at:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/03/28/perdueed0328.html

The online references were:

www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2006/sunday-alcohol-related.html (http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2006/sunday-alcohol-related.html)

and,

www.emedicinehealth.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=76742 (http://www.emedicinehealth.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=76742)

JOE

Reading the Governor's column affirms just why I tend to call myself a Libertarian-Republican or an economic-conservative. It also makes me glad I'm a northerner, born and raised in the upper mid-west.

TNbourbon
03-28-2008, 19:51
...It also makes me glad I'm a northerner, born and raised in the upper mid-west.

Well, I guess that makes me glad to be a Southerner, born and raised in the upper Midwest (SW Michigan). I've been in Tennessee -- where we don't sell wine in groceries or any non-beer liquor on Sundays (I even remember when the beer cases were chained and padlocked on Sundays!) -- now more than 26 years, and I haven't run out of wine or liquor yet. And, having worked in one of those wooly-regulated liquor stores for almost six years now, I can attest that the storeowner and staff, at least, are glad that we have ONE day off a week.
Life isn't really all that bad here, despite the 14.3% of the week during which I can't buy a bottle of bourbon.

cowdery
03-28-2008, 22:24
While perusing the Atlanta Journal-Constitution's OP-ED area, I came across a reference to Chuck Cowdery's book, "Bourbon Straight: The Uncut and Unfiltered Story of American Whiskey", complete with a picture of the books cover. :) The Governor of Georgia, Sonny Perdue, wrote an opinion column in today's AJC, expressing his view against legalizing Sunday alcohol sales in Georgia. At the top of page A13, the paper has a blurb on how to get more information on the subject. They direct the reader to two ONLINE references, and one BOOK reference--Chuck's! I think that's pretty cool! :cool: Congratulations!

:toast:

JOE

Wow, thanks Joe. This is all news to me. Pretty cool indeed.

smokinjoe
03-29-2008, 07:50
Chuck, I'll bring you a copy to the Sampler.

JOE

sku
03-29-2008, 08:00
I don't know that it's a north/south issue. When I lived in the Bible Belt city of Manhattan, you couldn't buy liquor on Sundays either, and I think some of the New England states still have blue laws as well.

spun_cookie
03-29-2008, 08:05
Could not in AZ for a while and now it is not beofre 10:00AM on Sundays

ILLfarmboy
03-29-2008, 13:34
I have never actually ran out of anything that couldn't wait till the following weekend or the weekend after that.

Here in this part of ILL. certain towns suspend Sunday sales till eleven or noon. This has caused some inconveniences. When working Monday through Saturday, this leaves only Sunday to do shopping. Now, I might go shopping after work but because driving to the nearest large town with a big grocery chain etc. (where decent prices can be found) involves either thirty minutes or close to an hour behind the wheel, one way, depending on which direction I go, It's not something I want to do when I'm tired, its 6:00PM and all I want to do is take a bath, eat some supper and spend a little quality time in front of the TV with the wife before its time to drag my but up to bed. Come Sunday, I like to get my shopping done early. This is where I'm inconvenienced. If I plan on buying any alcohol I can't set out too early. There have been a few occasions in our married life where Janean sent me to the store with a list, usually in preparation for a family get-together or other dinner party, where unbeknown to me the list included alcohol. This has happened on a Sunday and I have had to kill some time till noon. I'm glad I don't live in an area where Sunday sales are verboten.

OscarV
03-29-2008, 15:47
I tend to call myself a Libertarian-Republican .

Is this a recent revelation on your part?
Or have you always considered yourself a Libertarian?

cowdery
03-30-2008, 09:25
General blue laws were finally overturned, correctly, as state establishment of religion. No alcohol sales on Sunday is the same thing, but states have more leeway in alcohol regulation, so they haven't been overturned on First Amendment grounds.

I get regular press releases from the Distilled Spirits Council and a lot of them have to do with states finally changing on this. One by one, states are dropping it, and no new ones are adopting it. I remember when I lived in Louisville, Kentucky had no Sunday sales. It was always a big day for all the restaurants across the river in Indiana. Like Perdue, DISCUS frames it their way, as a boon to the states in terms of additional tax revenue.

Purdue is clever in framing it as a public safety issue, but it's ultimately arbitrary and nanny-stateish, in addition to still having the stink of state promotion of religion on it. On the other hand, all alcohol regs are more-or-less arbitrary. Why should hours-of-sale for bars and liquor stores be regulated at all?

Clever framing tricks reasonable people into thinking that the minor inconvenience caused by these regulations means they must be reasonable, but they really just represent people who would favor total prohibition if they could swing it getting their licks in, fostering the idea that alcohol is a uniquely dangerous product that requires special regulation.

cowdery
03-30-2008, 09:26
Chuck, I'll bring you a copy to the Sampler.

JOE


Thanks. I appreciate that.

AVB
03-31-2008, 04:40
In 2003 Pennsylvania started Sunday Liquor sales in 10% of it's stores (61 at the time). I don't know if it has expanded beyond that number but I really don't see the need for it myself.

cowdery
03-31-2008, 19:48
The correct question is not whether or not you need to buy liquor on Sunday. The correct question is whether or not you need to be prevented from buying liquor on Sunday by the government.

TNbourbon
03-31-2008, 19:50
The correct question is not whether or not you need to buy liquor on Sunday. The correct question is whether or not you need to be prevented from buying liquor on Sunday by the government.

Yes, you do, so I can get a day off!

barturtle
03-31-2008, 19:54
Yes, you do, so I can get a day off!

Ah, but nobody if forcing any store to be open, just because it is legal to be.

TNbourbon
03-31-2008, 20:30
Ah, but nobody if forcing any store to be open, just because it is legal to be.

Yes, well -- I WOULD like to work a couple of days a week, which wouldn't happen once the store is out of business for refusing to compete...

smokinjoe
04-01-2008, 06:16
Yes, well -- I WOULD like to work a couple of days a week, which wouldn't happen once the store is out of business for refusing to compete...

I would have to look this up to confirm, but in following this story the last several months, I believe that liquor stores in the state, are generally not in favor of this legislation to legalize Sunday sales.

You know, Tim, Chick-fil-A elects not to compete on Sundays, and they are thriving the other 6 days!

Cheers!

JOE

ILLfarmboy
04-01-2008, 07:35
For my part I was thinking of sales of alcohol in grocery stores not small liquor stores that may, if Sunday sales are legalized, feel compelled to stay open to compete. In either case, it doesn't change my mind.


.... I believe that liquor stores in the state, are generally not in favor of this legislation to legalize Sunday sales....

JOE

Although liquor stores "not being in favor of legalizing Sunday sales" and actively lobbying to ban Sunday sales are two different things, I'm reminded of something that happened here some years back. In Illinois you can't buy a car on Sunday. Large car dealerships don't want to potentially miss out on a sale (to a smaller mom and pop operation) but they want to remain closed on Sunday. Some people, those who own smaller dealerships, felt this was a way of making it difficult for them to compete against the big boys. They may have argued (I don't remember) that for the bigger dealerships to lobby the State Legislature to keep this abserd 'blue law' was a violation of some anti-trust law.

In any case, it seems to me, that for companies, be they liquor stores or car dealerships, to conspire to restrict competition using 'blue laws', are violating, if not any specific anti-trust law, certainly the spirit of anti trust laws in general.

Sijan
04-01-2008, 20:29
How is it that so many businesses are able to take off the weekend - or at least a day a week, even in the service industry - without laws prohibiting them from being open?

And how many businesses in the service industry that are open 7 days a week actually schedule any employee to work every day they are open? Damn few, I'd bet.

Perhaps we should ban the sale of milk on Sundays as well? And gasoline, hamburgers, tacos, clothes, waffle cones...

TNbourbon
04-01-2008, 20:45
...And how many businesses in the service industry that are open 7 days a week actually schedule any employee to work every day they are open? Damn few, I'd bet.

Perhaps we should ban the sale of milk on Sundays as well? And gasoline, hamburgers, tacos, clothes, waffle cones...

Oh, c'mon, Dan -- that's naive, at best, tendentious, at worst. The liquor store I work for has ONE full-time employee -- the owner. ALL of the rest of us are part-timers so, of course, we don't work EVERY day. That doesn't mean, however, that a mandatory increase in 'open hours' won't cost employees. I DO work every day elsewhere, as do my store colleagues.
For example, I recently traded reduced hours (a 9-hour shift every OTHER weekend instead of every weekend, as it's been the last five years) for resignation. If I have to work Sunday hours, too, I'm gone! Period.
Small businesses are just that -- small. Government mandates affect them much more than larger businesses/industries. If you've been paying any attention, it's small businesses where job growth is occurring over the past two decades or so.
By the way, I make almost $11 an hour as a part-time employee, just in case you think 'slingin' bottles' is a minimum-wage category. You can't hire a legal, minimum-wage employee in my area even to work a McDonald's counter.

Sijan
04-01-2008, 20:52
I find it extremely peculiar that you describe the legalization of selling alcohol on Sunday as a "government mandate" or as a "mandatory increase in open hours." Exactly what is mandated by legalizing Sunday sales?

Nothing you mentioned affects my point that lots of businesses in the service industry - yes, even small businesses - function just fine without being prohibited from selling their products or services one day per week. Employees don't work every day, so being open all seven days per week doesn't really affect much. And to the extent it does affect total hours worked, many people want more hours rather than fewer, so it's a boon to some and a drawback for others. But the idea that the "problem" needs to be "solved" by a law prohibiting Sunday sales is absurd. Many businesses in the service industry are (voluntarily) closed on Mondays, for instance.

TNbourbon
04-01-2008, 20:57
I find it extremely peculiar that you describe the legalization of selling alcohol on Sunday as a "government mandate" or as a "mandatory increase in open hours." Exactly what is mandated by legalizing Sunday sales?

Should I really assume customers will shop in my store six days a week, but simply attend the competition across the street on Sunday before returning to us?
Some will, but some will abandon us for the 7-day service. What percentage is acceptable? It's a business, not a non-profit organization. We'd HAVE TO BE open!

Sijan
04-01-2008, 21:11
To the extent that your store "has" to be open in order to survive, it is a consquence of market pressures (consumer demand) rather than any government mandate.

But even with these market forces, many businesses - particularly small businesses - have voluntarily made the decision not to be open on Sundays or Mondays or other days of the week, and seem to survive just fine.

What is so unique about liquor stores that makes it important that we ban liquor sales on Sundays but not milk sales or gas sales or pizza sales?

You keep trying to suggest that legalizing sales on Sundays would be an act of the oppressive hand of government intervention, when it's precisely the opposite. You are calling for the (continued) heavy-handed government intervention in the form of a prohibition (where people are arrested or lose their alcohol license for violating the law) of sales in order to solve a scheduling problem faced by just about every other business out there. Good grief!

smokinjoe
04-02-2008, 05:59
As this now has become a full-blown political discussion (and probably subject to relocation by our Moderators. :o), for any interested, here is a somewhat official rebuttal to the Governor's opinion from last week:

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/04/02/williamsed0402.html

Doing my part for Fair and Balanced reporting...

JOE

Sijan
04-02-2008, 11:04
From the rebuttal article (http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/04/02/williamsed0402.html):

There are those who say that so-called "blue laws" are a Southern tradition. If they are right, it is a tradition that has gone the way of the horse-drawn carriage in the rest of the South. No other Southern state bans Sunday sales. In fact, in all the nation only Connecticut and Indiana join Georgia in the practice. Not Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee or the Carolinas —- only cosmopolitan Georgia clings to remnants of its prohibitionist past.

It's not a true state, but DC also prohibits liquor sales on Sunday, although grocery stores can still sell beer and wine.

cowdery
04-02-2008, 18:42
And this thread started out so nicely too, as a celebration of me.

smokinjoe
04-02-2008, 19:33
And this thread started out so nicely too, as a celebration of me.

:lol: Still celebrating you in Atlanta, Chuck. I sometimes sit in wonder, at my thread killing prowess. Now, I can ponder my inabilities to start a thread that makes it past 3 posts that keep on subject. :shithappens:

:toast:

JOE

CorvallisCracker
04-03-2008, 09:34
And this thread started out so nicely too, as a celebration of me.

Take heart, Chuck. I just ordered a copy of your book.

GOCOUGS2002
04-04-2008, 11:53
Take heart, Chuck. I just ordered a copy of your book.

I just received my copy and I can't put it down. Chuck thank you for writing such a great book!

Jason

cowdery
04-04-2008, 13:10
My book made its way to Iraq? Far out!