View Full Version : Hirsch 20yo
bromike666
04-09-2008, 13:49
For what its worth, http://www.nywineexchange.com has it on their site for $369.99. I called them to verify and they say they "can get it for you" when you place an order online.
I'm no expert like some of ya'll and very new to all this vintage Bourbon stuff so I'll be passing on this one.
Just thought I'd let anyone who is interested know about what I found.
Sounds like for $369.99 they'll make it for you, if you know what I mean.
Docholiday
04-27-2008, 16:12
I had found online, an offering for A H Hirsh 20 with a picture at a unrealistic price. I called the store and they said that they indeed had it. I asked the clerk to check both the price and the stock. She said that she could see it in the case from where she was standing and that the price was correct. I just couldn't believe it and told her that I would take both bottles in stock. I told her I would be there in 1/2 hour. When I got there I could not find it amongst their Bourbons and assumed she had removed them from the shelf for me. I asked at the counter and the clerk showed me two Hirsh 20 year old American Whiskey bottles. I had printed out a copy of their ad which I Had with me and showed it to the clerk. She called the manager who looked at the ad and said it was an error and that they did not have it and he would have it corrected. Needless to say I was quite unhappy. Maybe this too is what you have found.
bromike666
04-29-2008, 08:01
I had found online, an offering for A H Hirsh 20 with a picture at a unrealistic price. I called the store and they said that they indeed had it. I asked the clerk to check both the price and the stock. She said that she could see it in the case from where she was standing and that the price was correct. I just couldn't believe it and told her that I would take both bottles in stock. I told her I would be there in 1/2 hour. When I got there I could not find it amongst their Bourbons and assumed she had removed them from the shelf for me. I asked at the counter and the clerk showed me two Hirsh 20 year old American Whiskey bottles. I had printed out a copy of their ad which I Had with me and showed it to the clerk. She called the manager who looked at the ad and said it was an error and that they did not have it and he would have it corrected. Needless to say I was quite unhappy. Maybe this too is what you have found.
Talk about a let-down! Thats putting it in PG-13 terms.
spun_cookie
05-06-2008, 19:03
I'm your huckleberry... ... ...
TNbourbon
05-06-2008, 19:08
Try eBay. Sure, someone here -- probably a lurker, not yet a member -- will offer to buy 'em, but we're pretty cheap. We realize it's waaayyy overpriced.:rolleyes:
(Pardon the directness, but we tend to be a little radioactive when a new member's first post is an offer to sell us stuff a good many of us have already had -- and I realize I'm going to be bashed by certain members for my 'inhospitality' but, well, there ya go...I think of SB.com as something more than a classified ads page. Go figure.)
Colorado
05-06-2008, 19:12
appreciate your directness. i'll try e-bay. these were given to me instead of a payment, and i don't know what to do with them
spun_cookie
05-06-2008, 19:13
Tim,
What is strange is he is member #898.... long time to wait for a first post... so not such a supper newbie...
TNbourbon
05-06-2008, 19:42
Em, while I understand any angst you might feel as a relative (and appreciated) newcomer, I (and I know I'm not alone) just hate when bottles go to the highest bidder instead of to people who will appreciate the whiskey in the bottle, just because it might be one of the current 'rarities du jour'. I found four Hirsch 20s a few years ago at $108 each, and I passed them along for $108 each. And, yes, it was already a rarity by then.
Have I ever made a profit on a bottle? Sure -- as recently as last weekend in Bardstown. But, it took some convincing, because it was a bottle I'd taken to the Sampler to open and taste! And the buyer was someone who has both been very good to me, and I know will open it someday and enjoy it. It won't be a 'bunker queen'.
But, most of all, you'll find that the 'old-timers' here -- and I guess I qualify as being among them -- didn't forward this forum as a trading post. We have had, and continue to have, an abiding respect, appreciation, and enjoyment of America's native spirit, the value of which is not counted in dollars, but in experiences and societies engendered.
I promise you, Em, if I can find a reasonably-priced Hirsch 20yo again, I will offer it to you at the price I've paid. That, for better or worse, is the best I can do.
spun_cookie
05-06-2008, 20:14
Your a good man sir and not a problem ... thank you for the kind offer...
I just can't bring myself to sell what I have... It is like my wine, I want to know what it tastes like with fellow enthusiasts... (one of the reasons my wife will not let me invest in wine :D)
stoopsie
05-07-2008, 06:39
(Pardon the directness, but we tend to be a little radioactive
Radioactive..... I resemble that remark:slappin:
Thanks, Tim, you expressed the SB gestalt very well.
The last one on ebay just went for $676! I guess I have to decide sometime if I'm ever gonna open up the second one I have stashed away.
I'd just like to add that Hirsch 20, which I've had a number of times, is a very good bourbon but is not unique in flavor profile. There are many whiskeys whose tastes approximate it quite closely and are as good or better. The best bottles of EC 18 years old (some of which are actually 20 years old or more) are just as good. So are some of the vintage series bottlings of KBF, the Vintage Bourbon 18 years old is very similar, IMO.
I realise that this brand represents a kind of loadstone but bottles of bourbon or rye of a similar age are on the market and I for one would be hard pressed to distinguish some of them in a blind tasting. Certainly I have my own elusive bottles, which perhaps I will never get to try. I am comforted in the fact that bourbon flavors, while as complex and interesting as those of the best malt whiskies and other great spirits, operate in a relativey narrow range (it is just the nature of the creature, you might say).
In fact, a thread on which straight whiskeys approximate or exceed the palate of Hirsch 20 year old bourbon would be instructive and revealing, I think.
Gary
doubleblank
05-19-2008, 09:56
As has been opined here on many occasions, the Hirsch 20's "value" lies in its relative rarity, not in its unique or outstanding flavors. I'll go on record that the Hirsch 16 wax tops are far better whiskeys to my taste......and offer a unique flavor profile. The Hirsch 20 yo flavors are much more dominated by wood than the 16 yo......the same/or similar flavors that show up in many 20 yo and older bourbons, IMHO.
Regarding the recent Hirsch 20 sale on ebay, that price seems in line based on other recent sales.....Dickle BHC for $150, Stagg 2003 for $300....all pretty funny to me. Of course, its easy to laugh when these things are already in my bunker.
Randy
Randy, I agree, but I think some people at least when they hear about the brand feel there is something unique about it and extra-special (in the taste), and they may not realize that it's always a relative matter. Some no doubt take the collecting approach to it (and fair enough, collecting has its own appeal), but as a palate matter, it is an excellent whiskey that has as you say specific attributes which are not unique IMO again.
Gary
mgilbertva
05-19-2008, 13:21
Radioactive..... I resemble that remark:slappin:
Ba-dump bump.
No, that's not a quip about stoopsie's glowing personality. Maybe he needs to work on it some more.
RWBadley
05-20-2008, 22:49
A number of years ago I found a small shop that was shutting it's doors (RIP). They had some glorious Scotch, Bourbon, Cognac, and others. I ended up aquiring a fine lot of Booze that I still have bits and pieces of.
There was a couple of Hirsch 20yo left on the shelf, and I pulled those for purchase as they were (with closing discount) about $45 each. I had the bourbon before and knew it a fine deal, especially at that price. The owner asked me if I'd be interested in any more and I replied "of course". I ended up with I guess seven or eight bottles of it, and have very happily consumed it over the years.
Several years ago a shop got wind I had a couple of bottles left and offered me $250 for a bottle. I declined. Seeing the recent bottle on fleabay go for $667 would make it very tempting to sell if I had more than one left. I'd really rather have the Hirsch, but knowing it's $650+ out the window for me cracking the bottle certainly gives pause.
The truth is, Over the last twenty years I have made it my avocation to taste and evaluate many, many different hootch. High end Cognac, Mezcal, Tequila, Scotch etc. I've enjoyed many and often. (I'm sure my liver thanks me) Many I have tried are not available anymore. Or if they can be found are stratospheric in price.
I have done many many side by side comparisons, and while the Hirsch 16 won slightly in bright flavors and character, the 20 had the depth and complexity that time and time again took best in show against all comers, whether it be Scotch, Cognac etc etc etc.... I will admit it was a good thing they didn't let it age longer on wood, as the balance was just very slightly tipping to a touch of tired wood. Nevertheless.
Of all I'd say I remember the 1970 21 yo Glen Garioch gave it a serious run, an old Bowmore did also, one Cognac that was from just post war was close ( my minor complaint was that it was just tooo smooooth;-).
I have tasted many Bourbon, with very few that would approach it. I think the old Pappy 20 was quite good, while not so refined as the Hirsch, it made up for it with a nice depth of leather and mint. The vintage Port Ellen cask strength Scotch approached it. The Bladnoch 1965 was excellent. But--- the Hirsch 20yo nipped 'em all in the end. Every time. With many palates on hand it was always the winner.
It really is World class, and is very deserving of being so highly sought after. Worth $600+? Well, I dunno, I'm just glad to have a small bit left, cuz I sure couldn't afford to buy it now.
DowntownD
05-21-2008, 19:36
A number of years ago I found a small shop that was shutting it's doors (RIP). They had some glorious Scotch, Bourbon, Cognac, and others. I ended up aquiring a fine lot of Booze that I still have bits and pieces of.
There was a couple of Hirsch 20yo left on the shelf, and I pulled those for purchase as they were (with closing discount) about $45 each. I had the bourbon before and knew it a fine deal, especially at that price. The owner asked me if I'd be interested in any more and I replied "of course". I ended up with I guess seven or eight bottles of it, and have very happily consumed it over the years.
Several years ago a shop got wind I had a couple of bottles left and offered me $250 for a bottle. I declined. Seeing the recent bottle on fleabay go for $667 would make it very tempting to sell if I had more than one left. I'd really rather have the Hirsch, but knowing it's $650+ out the window for me cracking the bottle certainly gives pause.
The truth is, Over the last twenty years I have made it my avocation to taste and evaluate many, many different hootch. High end Cognac, Mezcal, Tequila, Scotch etc. I've enjoyed many and often. (I'm sure my liver thanks me) Many I have tried are not available anymore. Or if they can be found are stratospheric in price.
I have done many many side by side comparisons, and while the Hirsch 16 won slightly in bright flavors and character, the 20 had the depth and complexity that time and time again took best in show against all comers, whether it be Scotch, Cognac etc etc etc.... I will admit it was a good thing they didn't let it age longer on wood, as the balance was just very slightly tipping to a touch of tired wood. Nevertheless.
Of all I'd say I remember the 1970 21 yo Glen Garioch gave it a serious run, an old Bowmore did also, one Cognac that was from just post war was close ( my minor complaint was that it was just tooo smooooth;-).
I have tasted many Bourbon, with very few that would approach it. I think the old Pappy 20 was quite good, while not so refined as the Hirsch, it made up for it with a nice depth of leather and mint. The vintage Port Ellen cask strength Scotch approached it. The Bladnoch 1965 was excellent. But--- the Hirsch 20yo nipped 'em all in the end. Every time. With many palates on hand it was always the winner.
It really is World class, and is very deserving of being so highly sought after. Worth $600+? Well, I dunno, I'm just glad to have a small bit left, cuz I sure couldn't afford to buy it now.
hell of a first post...
welcome.
- D
TNbourbon
05-21-2008, 20:09
hell of a first post...
welcome.
- D
Indeed! RWBadley, we'd most enjoy hearing about some of the other liquors you've enjoyed, especially the whiskeys.
RWBadley
05-21-2008, 23:17
Indeed! RWBadley, we'd most enjoy hearing about some of the other liquors you've enjoyed, especially the whiskeys.
Thanks guys; for the warm welcome and kind words.
Living on the left coast I'm sure I don't have local access to the depth of Bourbon available elsewhere. I'll post when I get some time in the newbie thread with an introduction of my tasting experience and background.
In Van Nuys CA (I'm in Reno NV) there is a store called Wine and Liquor Depot. I had been getting liquor shipped from there for several years when I found the chance to drive down and check them out personally. This was maybe eight or ten years ago I guess. Howard was always so nice on the phone... So I get there and introduce myself.
Walking around the shop I picked out a mixed case when Howard came up to me with a small glass. He offers it to me with the explanation it is Knappogue Castle (sp) 1951 (or '52) So here I am walking around this amazing high end booze shop with a glass of 40 yr old Irish. Heaven! I felt like a kid in a candy shop with a pocket full of nickels.
I ended up bringing home some nice Singletory Highland Park cask 1975, along with Ardbeg 20something and Port Ellen. I think I brought a few bourbon back too, tho this trip might have been a couple of the Hirsch 16. These were all less than $75 each at the time, now more like 300 I'd guess, at least for the POrt Ellen. The Hirsch was around $40 if I remember right.
All good whiskey. Keep this hint on the back page, but the best value imho lately and one you should try is the oops, hang on a sec... Let me order another bottle before I let the cat out ;-) I'll share that tip next time.
Cheers,
RW
heatmiser
05-22-2008, 00:04
Wine & Liquor Depot in Van Nuys is a great shop. I have been there numerous times. They have one if not the best independant scotch offerings in SoCal. There tequila selection is phenomenal as well. Bourbon selection is just so-so. Prices are always on the low end. Great store!
Just a correction, when I mentioned earlier Vintage 18 from KBD, I meant the Vintage Bourbon 17 years old (Cliff's recent post on the tastings he does in New York prompted this correction).
It would be interesting to know its origin.
It does seem to have a high rye-type taste, and maybe this is why it reminds me of Hirsch 20, but it could be the barrel too.
I do not believe I ever had the 21 and 23, maybe one of them, once.
Gary
Apologies for the error guys (and gals).
Edited By VoL:
It is after the fact, but I am clearing this anyway because we do not promote ebay listings. Promoting these listings drives up prices more which none of us like!
Apologies for the error guys (and gals).
Edited By VoL:
It is after the fact, but I am clearing this anyway because we do not promote ebay listings. Promoting these listings drives up prices more which none of us like!
Apologies for the link all. :(:(:(
I'd just like to add that Hirsch 20, which I've had a number of times, is a very good bourbon but is not unique in flavor profile.
Okay. I've seen it in Japan for about 80 bucks.
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/577852/1103011/#1159362 (http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/57785)
and here
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/fitch/386037/394912/395299/1845529/#1439294
If its nothing special, I will pass on it.
barturtle
08-09-2008, 05:09
Okay. I've seen it in Japan for about 80 bucks.
(http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/57785)http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/57785 (http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/577852/1103011/#1159362)2/1103011/#1159362 (http://www.rakuten.co.jp/re-lax/455141/577852/1103011/#1159362)
and here
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/fitch/386037/394912/395299/1845529/#1439294
If its nothing special, I will pass on it.
I guess it should be pointed out that the Hirsch 20oy that is being referred to in this thread is properly labeled A. H. Hirsch Finest Reserve and is a pot stilled sour mash straight bourbon whiskey distilled in PA and bottled at 45.8%.
What you have there is not this whiskey, but is instead a Hirsch Selection American Whiskey. By not using the word "bourbon" on the label opend up all kinds of possibilities for blending in stuff including but not limited to: corn whiskey, rye whiskey, bourbon whiskey, Tennessee whiskey, as well as reused cooperage.
While I would be hesitant to purchase this whiskey without knowing more about what it actually contains, a skilled blender could make quite a nice whiskey, one better than the individual parts alone, through a thoughtful blending process.
Anyone interested in trading a AHH 20 for a AHH 16 (preferably blue wax)? I have 3 bottles of the 20 and have never tried the 16. From what I understand the 16 has a better flavor profile, even it is less valuable because of the 20's rarity.
Well, we figured out that the AAH, that is the Michter's, was no more pot stilled than any other bourbon, but it is worth keeping in mind that it has to say A. H. Hirsch on the label, just "Hirsch" and it's something else, still from Priess Imports, but it's not the Michter's.
I'm relatively new to the forum and not an expert. Is there any difference between the Michters and AHH other than bottling. If not why the "gold rush" on AHH?
Michter's was a name (one of them) of a distillery in Pennsylvania that forever closed about 18 years ago. The AH Hirsch bottlings of bourbon that are 16 and 20 years old contain Michter's bourbon made in 1974. (The 20 was all bottled from the barrels around 1994 and the 16 was bottled starting in 1990, some from wood and thence from stainless tanks since what was unbottled from the wood was tanked that year). There are some rare bottlings of other ages as well (19 years for example, but let's set these aside). The 20 is very good, so are the blue wax and gold wax 16's. What is the best amongst them? I'd say the 16 year old blue wax. Incidentally, Michter's in its heyday never was sold at such advanced ages. It was sold at 6 years old and was very good. The AHH bottlings of Michter's 1974 bourbon were a one-off but an inspired one.
Gary
N.B. The various bourbons and other whiskeys available today under the Michter's name in the heart-shape bottle are not connected to the original enterprise in PA other than by name. The current bottlings of Michter whiskeys are bulk whiskeys sourced in Kentucky. Of these, critical opinion tends to favour the Michter's 18 year old rye. The original Michter's did not, since Prohibition ended, make a rye, it made a kind of bourbon/rye hybrid called Original Sour Mash (which is the 6 years old I speak of above) and occasionally made bourbon. I should correct: it did make rye too but not for bottling under the Michter's label, but rather for the bulk trade.
Gary,
Thanks for the info. I was familiar with the Michter's name and the connection to AHH. I didn't really understand the "marketing" between the two labels.
I'd like to hear more about the "rare bottlings" as that is my whole point in trading what I do have for something I might want to try.
Thanks,
Frank
I think a round-up of these was made on the board some time back, Randy B. has a good handle on it and maybe he could reply when he gets back.
There was a 19 and I think a 15, both in a bottle with the older white and flowing script label (like your 20).
The Hirsch bourbons were great, no question. There are however (for those who can't get any) other bourbons on the market that are fairly similar. The Vintage Bourbon from KBD at 17 years age is quite similar to the blue wax Hirsch 16 IMO. The Hirsch 20 and, say, EC 18, or Vintage Bourbon 21, are not that far apart. Or take, say the AH Hirsch rye 22 years old. Still, Hirsch bourbon was and always will be special.
Gary
Guys,
I just wanted to say thanks for all the replys and info. I checked my stash and, unfortunately, I have the Hirsch 20 vice the AHH 20. I'm nearly positive that I have the bottle of AHH 20 somewhere. I think it may be mixed in with my brother's stash. I'll be in touch once I find the "true article." I apologize for any confusion and appreciate all the assistance in clarification.
Frank
To sort of complete what Gary was saying, if the label just says "Hirsch" and not "A. H. Hirsch" it is not part of that 1974 Michter's stash, nor of any other Michter's stash. The "Hirsch" comes from various original sources and may or may not be very fine whiskey, it's just not the A. H. Hirsch, and when you see people talking about 16-year-old gold foil or 16-year-old blue wax, they're probably talking about the A. H. Hirsch. I think Frank has put all this together, but I wanted it in the thread for anyone who is trying to sort all this out.
The people who run Priess Imports, who produce both the Hirsch and A. H. Hirsch, have told me they have no plans to use the A. H. Hirsch name again, and so far they have not, but plans can change.
RWBadley
08-23-2008, 23:32
I'm glad to see this thread with some life. Last night a buddy and I spent some time going through 'the Vault'. We did a very nice tasting with two Del Maguey Mezcals, (if you can find the Tobala- just get it) Anchor Gin (an amazing gin and best bang for the buck at only 26$), A.H. Hirsch 20yo, Vintage Bourbon 17yo, and a few others.
Spectacular as the Hirsch is and always has been.... Last night decided it had been eclipsed for the first time in my tastings. This by a bottle of 1966 27yo Whyte & Whyte 106 cask strength Glen Scotia. This is a very rare Single that I very seldom bring from the dark space in the back of the cave. It is truly the stuff that makes the eyes roll back and the mouth utter words in foreign tongues.
Cheers,
RW
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