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View Full Version : What is your Favorite American Beer Now and what did you like many years ago?



dave ziegler
04-30-2008, 12:35
Through the years I have always loved beer quit drinking for many years due to Eusoagus Ulsers but all healed and drinking again I have a good many ones I like. Now when I was young no matter what People say I liked Schmidt's of Pa. When it went under I was sad. My Favorite regular Lager beer is one I can not get in pa but have friends bring me many cases when they get up to New England. Narragansett was good in the old days But the New Narragansett to me is one of the best Macro Brewed Lager Beers around. I just had a friend bring me 5 cases in Feb from CT. The New Reading Premium is a very nice Beer to drink when you want to drink a few it has a nice Smell great taste and good Refreshing Mouth feel to it. I also Like Ballantine XXX ale with is brewed under the Pabst group. It still smells like Corn but it also is one of the most refreshing Ales in mass market stuff. Sam Adams is good but to pricey for me. And I know I'm going to hear about this one But I like Iron City beer when I want to drink a bunch of beer it is a nice cheap tasty beer. I have bought many High end beers only to be disapointed alot. I do like some German beers, but drink mostly good Ol USA Beers. Flying fish Pale Ale which I had one when I met Kurt is a nice Ale. And when I was a Kid I always made the 3 ring sign and asked the Man for Ballantine Beer at the Old Connie Mack Ball park. I have all the guys giving me the 3 ring sign here at work they ask what does that mean and after I tell them they wave to me that way in the plant when I am doing mail. Another real nice Cheap Beer is Stegmaier Beer in 16 OZ returnables a nice tasting smooth Beer from the Lion a Pa Staple. Another old time favorite was Ortliebs and I met Henry Ortlieb the 3rd just before he died at around 55 years old of a heart attack a nice man he had bought the old Sunnybrook Ballroom and made a micro brew in it. He took his first vacation in ten years and died.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon!

Gillman
04-30-2008, 12:48
Dave, do you remember Horlacher? It made a brand called Perfection which was aged 9 months, as originally for lagers in the mid-1800's.

What about Prior Double Dark?

Both old-time PA beers.

Gary

dave ziegler
04-30-2008, 12:54
Yes Gary I remember them well and the Horlacher Perfection was a very nice Beer! Also at the end they made one called Brew II it was supposed to save them but They are long Gone. I also drank alot of Neuweiler Beer and Cream Ale and liked them alot. I liked Rolling Rock Till bud bought them None of that for me. I still have a case and a half of The Old pa Rolling Rock I am finishing up. It keeps a couple of years in the basement but I am drinking it up now and enjoying the last of a good Old Time Beer! Never had any Prior Double dark but tried to get a job there at Adam Scheidt's same time I tried to get one at Kinsey, and got the Job at Kinsey!
BE WELL Gary-!
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon!

Gillman
04-30-2008, 13:01
Thanks, Dave, wishing you well, too. Here is what the late beer writer M. Jackson said about Brew II in the late 70's: "A strongish (5.57%), sweet beer". Straub's as you know is still made in St. Mary's, which is in the north of the State in forested hunting country. Of course there is Yuengling, which is bigger than ever, and Stoney's which is still made too I think (in Jonesville is it, I used to know this). You mentioned all the old Philly beers.

Gary

Gillman
04-30-2008, 13:02
No I see now, Jones was the name of the brewery, in Smithton, that made Stoney's and I hope still does.

Gary

Gillman
04-30-2008, 13:04
Oops, also in PA there was Lion, in Wilkes-Barre, not sure of its status.

Gary

dave ziegler
04-30-2008, 15:00
Gary the Lion is doing great they make Stegmaier as they bought the recipies when they went out of bussiness and promissed to keep its tradition, they have done a great job I like the Steg Porter also. They make Gibbons too which is another great buy in 16 OZ returnables. The Stoney's beer is now contract brewed by Pittsburg Brewing for them, I have not been able to get any of it to try for a long time. Used to be made in smithton by I think it was called Jones Brewing. And Straub's is as good as ever still with no preservitives. You have to drink it within about 90 days after the brewed date. Pittsburg was supposed to make one of my old down south favorites again Weidemann but from what I see have not yet. The Lion is doing all the contract brewing of bottle beer for Reading right now and Legecy is doing the draft at their Micro brewery in Reading they hope to build a bottling & brewery in Reading in the next couple of years. They are very nice People I call them every now and then. They paid about a million dollars to get the Reading name back and they are doing good. The beer is a nice beer in fact I am drinking one right now!
Dave Z

Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
04-30-2008, 16:12
Ah yes, Wiedemann's Royal Amber - not just a southern beer, but a Kentucky one, which has an extra resonance here. Listed in M. Jackson's 70's book as one of the great pre-microbrewery era American beers (along with Horlacher Perfection, Prior Double Dark, Anchor Steam (still great), Rainier Ale aka The Green Death, Andeker, Henry Weinhard's, Ballantine IPA and one or two others).

Raise a glass to the old beers.

Thanks, Dave.

Gary

dave ziegler
04-30-2008, 16:42
Here's a toast to Ballantine India Pale Ale so Darn Good! I used to bring 3 to 5 cases of Wiedemann's home everytime I took a trip down south to good old KY with my Mom. We loved going to Pikesville and West Libery KY and went every year till she died and I went into a sea of debt thanks to the state of Pa laws where they put leans on your home when you go in a nursing home and everything in the house was mine but they did not see it that way so I had to buy it back lived here my whole life! In the old days it was a farm my Grand parents bought in 1927. I live on the last 1 and 7/8 acre's now and glad I do. Another Beer I loved was from New England Catamount Amber Micro brewed and really good stuff! It to is gone! There is one beer I never got to taste and if I could go back in time I would Kruger Beer the good old Mr K cans the very first Beer to be put in a can 1935, I have a few well worn cans in my collection of beer cans! I would love to find out what it was like from some oldtimer that drank it.
BE WELL Gary-!
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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BourbonJoe
04-30-2008, 16:44
Ballantine IPA. Raise a glass to the old beers.

Thanks, Dave.

Gary

That Ballantine IPA was a favorite of mine Gary. Remember the riddles inside the caps. We used to make the guys solve the riddle before we gave them the bottle.
Joe :usflag:

dave ziegler
04-30-2008, 16:56
That Ballantine IPA was a favorite of mine Gary. Remember the riddles inside the caps. We used to make the guys solve the riddle before we gave them the bottle.
Joe :usflag:
Hey Joe Stegmaier still has the riddles in the caps as does Ballantine XXX Ale and Gibbons too! I get a kick out of them! That Ballantine IPA was some good stuff!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
04-30-2008, 18:24
Boys let's step on a time machine and go back to the disco era (and before) and flat-trunk cars with hemis and, well, you know.

Here are some taste notes from James D. Robertson's fine, early 1980's "The Connoisseur's Guide to Beer" (Caroline House Publishers, Inc.):

Lord Chesterfield Ale (Yuengling, PA): "Yellow gold, sweet malty aroma ... perfumy sweet and bitter ale taste, plenty of body, lingering aftertaste".

Ballantine IPA (Falstaff Brewing, peripatetic even by then but probably made in Cranston, R.I.): "Deep brown gold, pungent aroma of hops, enormous body ... powerful flavor yet with surprisingly good balance... lingering, full-flavored aftertaste...".

Liebotschaner Cream Ale (Lion, Inc., PA): "Pale color, very malty aroma ... pleasant tasting finish and aftertaste ... more like a pilsener but quite good, thirst quenching and slides down easily".

Maximus Super (F.X. Matt Brewing, Utica, NY): "...complex aroma of malt and hops, clean taste with an excellent balance ...Germanic in style, notable similarity to Andeker from Pabst only slightly better ... one of the best American beers".

Wiedemann Royal Amber (George Wiedemann, Newport, KY): "Deep gold, lightly carbonated, beautifully balanced malt and hop nose, touch of sweetness at first on the palate, good hoppy middle ... big hop taste without obstrusive bitterness ... one of America's truly fine beers".

Perfection Beer (Horlacher, Allentown, PA): "Aged for 9 months, deep golden color, strong malt-vegetal aroma, big-bodied, big tangy flavor ... loaded with character ... one of the best brews ever brewed in America. There was some indication it was long brewed Imperial Pilsener". (Contemporary beer fans who know of the fashion for "Imperial" lagers and other such beers might reflect).

Rainier Ale. (Rainier Brewing, Seattle, WA). "Beautiful amber color ... lovely well-hopped aroma, pungent yet sweet taste ... pretty good as American ales go...".

Koch's Deer Run Ale. (Fred Koch, Dunkirk, NY). "Yellow, big creamy yeasty nose, foamy-creamy appearance, big sweet malt flavor, lots of everything, good balance, good flavor...".

I could go on but here is a snapshot of (admittedly) some of America's best in the 1970's. Sounds pretty darn good. I like extreme and other modern craft beers with the best of them, but the old school sounds pretty good too (I know, I was there)! Prosit.

Gary

chilidawg7
04-30-2008, 19:52
I am not a beer fan, but in '05 when we visited Buffalo Trace, we ran into a shorter fellow who looked a little like Santa Claus. Our guide knew him, as he had been there many times to pick up old barrels for use in aging beer. He spoke in such a way that made me want to try the beer, but alas, he had but a small bit to share with his buddies back home. He referred to the beer as "so fine" and my wife and I remember him to this day.

So if any of you out there know who that might be, let me know! :)

Slob
04-30-2008, 21:52
Piels. And a whole of it.

dave ziegler
05-01-2008, 02:27
Gary what does your Book say about Krueger Beer and Ale that is one if I could go back in time I would drink first! They were the first to can beer in a joint investment with American Can Company. I have a Picture of Mr K in my Office at work it says drink Krueger Beer in cans with Mr K and the first beer cans ever had Mr K on them. Anyone remember the coasters that had sayings they always started Mr K Say then a saying!
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
05-01-2008, 03:45
Another Blast from the Past is Christian Heurich Brewing Penna Ave right down from the White House back in the day makers of Old Georgtown and Senate Beer! Before my time but wondered if any of you had ever heard of it. It stood where the Kennedy Center is now. When I was young and up state Pa during a weekend You would go to the Bar on Sunday after 12:00-PM knock 3 times and a bag would come out the Back door full of Bottles of Kaier's Special Beer Mahanoy City Pa and you would put cash in the Hand sending it out. I loved Kaier's great old Pa Lager. Another one I liked was F&S Beer Shamokin Pa. Also one I never got to try but have a can in my collection in my work office is West Virginia Beer, The Little Switzerland Brewing company. I have to put a Picture on some time of my Work office I have 455 Vintage beer cans in it. Then Reading Had Sunshine Beer, There was Fort Pit Beer, Fort Pitt Brewing Smithtown Pa makers of Stoney's and Old Shay Cream Ale! And Good old Chief Oshkosh Beer never had any of that one!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
05-01-2008, 04:19
In James Roberston's book mentioned, he gives the Krueger beers a thumbs up, saying of one, "good well-hopped nose, hops slightly dominate the flavor, medium body, quite a bit of character..". He was less supportive of the cream ale but liked the others. I remember Piels too, it had one beer that was "draft in the can".

While overall American beer in the era mentioned tended to blandness and sameness, there were clearly some that were excellent products and would be considered so today.

Also, as beers have gotten (micro beers I mean) heavier and more bigger-tasting, the baseline has moved so to speak. We are simply used to a different standard today, but I am not sure it was necessarily "worse" 30 years ago and before.

Gary

dave ziegler
05-01-2008, 09:03
Gary Have you ever heard of Du Bois Budweiser beer? Totally different company and from what I have read and had used the name before the big guys and had to go to court to keep using it that way. From what I have read the Judge agreed and let them use it till they went under then it became the total property of Bud Weiser. Also Never had any Gunther Beer or Beverwyck Irish brand Ale but after they were gone FM Schaefer bought and used the Irish Cream name. A good beer back in my day was Christian Schmidt Classic and good old Tiger Head Cream Ale. And most people do not know it but Besides Yuengling there was a brewery in Pottsville that used to sell alot more beer then Yuengling It was MT Carbon Brewing and its Bavarian beer was a big seller. Yuengling got the name years later and never used it again.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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nor02lei
05-01-2008, 12:55
Gordon IPA from Oskar Blouse Brewery. Jackmans American pale ale from the same brewery isent bad ether .

Leif

Gillman
05-01-2008, 13:04
Dave, most of the brands you last mentioned are listed with taste notes in Jim Robertson's books. I'd advise to buy a copy (I am sure you can get a used one cheaply online), since it lists and rates hundreds of brands from the time we are discussing. Robertson kept issuing new editions and I think the first one dates from 1976 or so. The earliest (or second) edition would be best because it covers the brands from the era in question most fully; the later editions start to include micro beers.

In Robertson's 1982 book I mentioned, he mentioned the half-dozen or so micros that were then in business or planning to be, e.g., he gives high ratings to Sierra Nevada's beers.

One can see his respect for the craft element of the emerging small breweries although sometimes the palate of the beers was too much for him. In general though, he liked the new beers and this is not surprising because he also rates imports in the book and of course in many cases the new brewers were seeking to make local, fresh versions of beers that were still being made in Europe and were imported to America. Even then there was a decent import range, nothing like today but still impressive.

I love Robertson's description of a Belgian Trappist beer (Chimay) which he said reminded him of "the root beer my Aunt Beenie used to make".

Gary

spun_cookie
05-01-2008, 13:30
Was Sam Smith, is Blind Date by Four Peaks in Tempe AZ... great beer...

dave ziegler
05-02-2008, 02:27
I often remember the old slogans for Beers Like- The One Beer to have when your Having more then one, The Beer Drinkers Beer, Make the 3 ring sign and ask the man for----, Full taste Beer, the beer that made-- Famous, Try Joe's Beer, Will ring a bell for ya, And --Special Beer. Fill in the blanks!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
05-02-2008, 04:01
A couple more are HI Neighbor Have a____, Hey Mabel__, The only Registered Beer__, There's more Cheer in___,The Pride of Chippewa Falls__, If it's__its good.And who could forget Hey get your cold Beer_ _ Beer. All these bring back many memories so fill in the blanks a name them.
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
05-02-2008, 04:49
I am not sure if this was an advertising slogan but it was said of a certain well-known beer, you had to live in the Midwest: "If you're out of Point, you're out of town". (Point Special, from Minnesota I believe and I think still made).

Gary

cigarnv
05-02-2008, 04:54
Man... you guys are bringing up some fond memories..... I grew up in the Hunting Park section of Philly (a few blocks from the Kasser Distillery) so I enjoyed many of the beers you speak of. My grandfather had a few cases of the Tiger Cream Ale delivered each week ( to enjoy with his Philly Blunts), my wifes dad drove a beer truck for Joe Ortlieb (life long Teamster) and we drank Schmidt's on tap for 15 cents each while we played shuffle board.... to wash down the pickled eggs and the hard shell crabs most of the bars in Philly sold. It is quite a shame what happened to the great old working class neighborhoods.

OscarV
05-02-2008, 04:54
Stevens Pointe from Wisconsin, because of the color of the cans they were called blue bullets.

dave ziegler
05-02-2008, 06:16
Do you remember eating Formost Kohser Hot dogs at the deli & the ball park and the great Jewish Bakery New Model Bakery right next to Ortliebs brewery Many a time when I drove truck in the old days my truck would just seem to stop there for some Corn Rye bread and Onion Rye. Also it was Point beer that made that saying Stevens Point Brewing Blue can you are right on have one old one here in my office collection at work. And Schmidt's was the Easy Beer, the full taste beer! And I loved it, and contary to what people say it was a great Beer and the water came from a 5,000 foot deep well NOT THE RIVER as some people try to say I knew a couple of People back in the day who worked there and my Truck route went right by schmidt's had a customer next door. And My Great Great Grandfather lived right across the street from Schmidt's back in the day where people would get a bucket of fresh Beer. And He did, Him and his Son inlaw were basket weavers by trade from Germany and wove the basket for the first Balloon asention in America back then. I can never seem to find anything much out about it But his Name was Zarnitz and His Son inlaw was Named Volts. The Ortlieb family were great brewers and great people. Nothing is the same in Phila any more. Do you remember the old Gretz Beer Sign at Olney & Board St guy on a high wheel Bike with a swinging Bucket of Beer and a dog chasing him! When my Dad took us to are family in Olney we would always see it I was about 8 maybe and went nuts watching it. We would drive down in my Dads 1955 Caddy Coupe Devile he bought used. Getz moto was Mellow Goodness. And who could ever forget although I never had any Good Old Esslinger Beer.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
05-02-2008, 06:32
Some of these old-time beers are still made, at least the labels are still going, and it might be a good idea to stack some six packs beside the Gazebo table next time.

As good as full-tasting modern micro beers are, it may be good to have some old school, lighter-type beers around as a foil for the bourbons.

When I was in Louisville recently on Baxter Street I saw a bar with an old Falls City sign (name of a long-closed brewer there). Maybe a Falls City beer is still sold by a company who owns the trademark.

To find these, you need to go to an older, beverage warehouse-type store, they are the best bet for these fast-dwindling older labels.

We could always get some PBR (since that is still going strong due in part to its retro appeal) but I am sure it would be possible to round up some current versions of these older names, Ballantine XXX is still available for example in New York and probably elsewhere.

I know just two years ago I enjoyed a Maximus Super in Utica, New York, it's still sold in the vicinity of the old brewery there, FX Matt's.

Gary

dave ziegler
05-05-2008, 08:31
Gary If you take some vintage brand Beers & Ales Ballantine XXX is still one of my Favorite Ale's I'm sure people would enjoy that. Another thing about Pa if you want to sell your Beer here you have to have a different Permit for each brand Which stinks as you can get Saranac but you can't get Utica Club which I used to drink when up in New England in the old days, when you call and ask different Brewing companys it is always the cost of the permit and if they will sell enough to make it worth all the trouble. So not only do we have the Bourbon & Whiskey issue but only certain beers. A real nice old time Beer to take would be Narragansett lager I like it so much I had a friend going to NE bring me 5 cases! The New PB is not bad also. I just wish I could get some Wiedemann it was always so good! I don't think Pittsburg Brewing is making it yet they have the label for it.
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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texascarl
05-05-2008, 08:51
I grew up in a 3.2 beer@18 state, so all thru College I drank Pabst Blue Ribbon. Every year I looked forward to the annual Pabst Bock season. They don't make it now, and other Bock beers are mo' bettah...but I learned to love dark beers and assorted Bocks drinking it way back when.

Nowdays I drink the local beer - Boulevard. Their Dry Stout, Unfiltered Wheat or Pale Ale, since they're on tap everywhere locally.

But if I see it's available I order Rogue Dead Guy Ale. I never outgrew the Maibock.

http://www.blvdbeer.com/index.cfm

http://www.rogue.com/Beer%20Brochures/DeadGuyGlow.pdf

bigtoys
05-05-2008, 21:08
My favorite beer is Newcastle Brown Ale.

Others that I like now are Pete's Wicked Ale, Rogue Dead Guy Ale, Turbo Dog, Blackened Voodoo Lager, Crimson Voodoo Lager, Sam Adams Black Lager, Hacker-Pschorr Hefe Weisse, and Samuel Smith Nut Brown Ale.

I still have a fondness for Heineken Dark and Beck's Dark.

I'm getting thirsty and it's only Monday. Lucky I'm off Friday.

craigthom
05-06-2008, 10:51
I had that Robertson book. It was instrumental in getting me interested in beer. I lost it somewhere along the way, but I remember all the pictures of labels in it.

I'm a recent arrival in Louisville, and I've seen those Falls City beer signs at bars. I have assumed (and will continue to do so until proven wrong) that they are relics of the past maintained with pride by the owners of the establishment. It's the same as all the Blatz signs you can see around Milwaukee. Yes, Blatz is currently made (by the company that calls itself Pabst), but these signs are from the good old days. There are also Schlitz signs around Milwaukee.

The Stevens Point Brewery is still there and still giving tours. There aren't many of these regional beers left. Most have been killed, in my opinion, by big budget advertising on national television by AB and Miller. All the others have closed, or the names of the beers have been purchased by the new Pabst.

Stevens Point is great. When I visited they had a huge collection of returnable long neck bottles in a lot of colors from a lot of different beers. Our guide told me that they weren't being made any more, so they were buying what they could from all over the country. They would quit putting beer in returnable bottles only when they ran out of bottles.

dave ziegler
05-06-2008, 12:38
I still have fond memories of Wiedemann Every time I went to KY back then I would bring 4 or 5 cases home, Good Beer! In my area an old favorite from the 1960's was Neuweiler and Their Cream Ale made in Allentown Pa. And in the old Days when it was made Falls City was a good old fashion beer. Interestingly I have been told that Pittsburg Brewing also has the rights to falls City.
Dave
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
05-06-2008, 13:05
There are a number of "classic" American beers I never had the chance to try. Wiedemann Royal Amber is one. Someone should revive it, a logical candidate would be BBC in Louisville, of course they'd have to get the rights and the recipe. There used to be a style of beer associated with Louisville called Kentucky common ale (this was discussed on the board a while back - I think that was the name, it was a top-fermenting brown beer). I have a theory that Wiedemann Royal Amber was the last surviving example.

The other key pre-micro beer I couldn't get to in time was Horlacher Perfection.

Another beer, which oddly counterpoints to the Wiedemann and Perfection beers in that it was at the dawn of the microbrew era, was New Albion ale - it was the first modern microbrewery ale in America properly speaking, made in the late 1970's in Northern California. I arrived in SF just a little too late to try it, and recall searching hopelessly for an old bottle in Marin ("the clarity of Cal to break your heart" - Jack Kerouac - that never applied to top-fermenting microbrews, but never mind, when I think of Marin and the Bay Area I think of Jack).

However, I did try Rainier Ale aka the Green Death, Henry Weinhard's, Andeker, Ballantine IPA (many times), Prior Double Dark, Yeungling Porter (still made), and many other standard bearers of old-school brewing. Let's not forget Augsburger, too.

But if there were two I'd have given my eye teeth to try they would have been Wiedemann's Royal Amber and Horlacher Perfection.

craigthom
05-06-2008, 13:27
I almost mentioned Augsburger, but I thought I had rambled on enough. Stevens Point Brewery licensed the rights to it and is making it again (just not the bock, which, while not a real bock, was a really nice dark lager). It was originally made by Jos. Huber in Monroe, Wisconsin, and was sold to Stroh in around 1987 or 1988.

The Point People claim to be making it to the original recipe.

OK, I can google press released for Point brewing Augsburger from 2003, and I saw it at the brewery in 2006, but there's nothing on their site.

What's worse, I found a cached reference in their faq from April 1st (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:sWHUOsBeQdUJ:www.pointbeer.com/brewmaster_faq.php+augsburger+point&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us), but it's no longer there (http://www.pointbeer.com/brewmaster_faq.php).

I'll write to find out.

Gillman
05-06-2008, 13:36
Thanks for that, I'd be interested to know if it is still made. Augsburger, called Augie by some, was a fine beer especially the dark.

Gary

Luna56
05-06-2008, 23:17
Right now my favorite is Sam Adams Boston Lager, but when I can get an Anchor Steam on draught I'll always go for it. A little touch of quality hops is a beautiful thing.

I used to like Rolling Rock a whole lot but when I drink it now I think that I must have been crazy. Used to love Schmidt's when I was in Pennsylvania, sad they don't make it any more. Seems like the good old American working man's beers of yesteryear had more of a German flavor than they do now. I really miss that.

When I'm overseas I like Caffrey's Irish Ale, Pilsner Urquell (the real stuff, not what we get here), Leibinger, Krusovice... man, I'm getting thirsty!

Cheers!

dave ziegler
05-07-2008, 02:34
The Reason Rolling Rock tasted so bad to you is the fact that The Brand was sold to Budweiser and they make it in Newark NJ now. The brewery closed in Aug 2006 In bev had bought them out they later sold the brewery to La Cross who contract brews Some Sam Adams there! What Bud does is put Budweiser without the Beechwood flavor in the Rolling rock bottels that is why it seems so bad to you. I have 1 & 1/2 cases left of the old stuff I bought a bunch out of the last coming out of Latrobe back then. It is still good and I am finishing it before it spoils.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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OldJack
05-07-2008, 07:39
Without a doubt, the single best beer I have ever tasted is an American product. Great Divide's Oak-Aged Yeti Imperial Stout.

For every day drinking, I love Stone IPA, Shiner Hefeweizen, and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale failry equally.

Back in the day, I was all about the Lone Star. It is the national beer of Texas, after all.

Jono
05-07-2008, 09:09
Speaking of Ballentines..some trivia...(never had it)...but it was the favorite of tv character Martin Crane (Frasier's father ...the retired policeman). On many episodes it was remarked as his beverage vs the wine sniffing Crane boys.

Gillman
05-07-2008, 10:19
Recently I saw Brador being sold in a Brewer's Retail in Toronto (the brewers' owned quasi-monopoly that retails beer here), and bought a dozen. Brador was, and still is, a premium beer in the Molson line. It is short for Brasee d'Or (golden brew) and was developed in Montreal where Molson originated in the 1700's. It is a modern-style commercial beer but offering extra quality including its 6% ABV level. Apparently it is a malt liquor in style (itself a somewhat vague category) and used to be a true ale. Old hands remember when Brador was an ale and that it switched to (presumably lager,) malt liquor status quite a while back; this is some old lore for the mavens.

They must sell just a little of it and I suspect the brewer keeps it going to keep the trademark valid.

Nonetheless, it is an excellent old-school beer, the spiritual equivalent to the MIA 1970's U.S. beers I mentioned earlier. It has a lightly malty taste and some good hops of the acidic, incisive (not highly-flavoured) type. I believe it is all-malt.

It tastes just like it did 30 years ago.

I'll use it to toast its lost U.S. brothers tonight.

Gary

craigthom
05-07-2008, 14:02
The sad news is that Stevens Point has discontinued Augsburger due to slow sales. Pabst still owns the label, so something may yet become of it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The beer I like now is the current highly-hopped American-style IPA. I dropped off a bonus six pack of one of my favorites for the sampler dinner. There's no shortage of microbreweries making this style these days. Some aren't quite to my taste, but many are.

In my youth I drank Budweiser. There weren't any regional brands available in Georgia when I was a youth. When I got to college we drank what was cheapest, which included a lot of the Beast and Schaeffer's and one that I can't remember the name of. Ah, Drury's. It was nasty, but it was about $4 for a case of longnecks.

dave ziegler
05-09-2008, 06:18
When I was a Kid there was a brewery in Boyertown, Pa near where I work but it has been gone so many years I have never met anyone who drank it, Boyertown Beer. Esslinger was a great old time Beer, I never had any but the old Brew house was still standing in 1996 when I went to Phila when I drove truck! And I remember Piels Real Draft well drank and enjoyed it! Also on the Quart Can of Esslinger were recipys for things like Cole Slaw made with Esslinger, get loaded on Cole Slaw I guess, I have a can in my collection like that, any one else remember those Esslinger cans also had Quiz's on some.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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mier
05-16-2008, 00:41
It has been Jim Bakker`s Pale ale troughout the 80`s but now a day it is Anchor steam beer from San Fransisco:toast: .
Eric.

dave ziegler
05-16-2008, 09:23
Here are some wonderful shots of old Ballantine Beer trucks and a Plant of theirs. I still love Ballantine XXX Ale and always keep a case handy!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
=========================================

dave ziegler
05-16-2008, 09:38
The first beer to be put in Cans was a joint effort between Kreuger Brewing Newark NJ and The American Can company and the first cans Had MR the Kreuger Brewing Mascote on the cans, Mr K became so Popular that the Coasters had sayings such as-----"MR K SAY"
" Some People are always trying"
Very Trying
Also Mr K Say--" Even a Fish wouldn't Get in Trouble"
"If He kept His Mouth Shut"
Fact Beer was put in cans before Soda because soda's have much more presure and they wanted to get them right for Beer before going on to make stronger one's for Soda. These cans had instructions on how to open them with the new Quick & Easy Can opener from American can company Picture #3 and you would get an opener with a purchase of caned Beer. Also the Cans stated they were Keg Lined which meant they had a thin Plastic like coating inside to keep the taste of metal out. One of my cans has a hole in the side and you can see a thin plastic like coating hanging in there.

Here are some pictures of Krueger cans from 1935!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
==========================================

dave ziegler
05-16-2008, 11:35
Here are two great old Pictures for Narragansett Beer a Favorite in the old days and a favorite to me now in the new days, voted one of the best American Lagers on Beer Advocate. On trips when I was younger to New England with My Mom I would always have a Gansett. Now that it has been brought back I like it even more then the old stuff, Had a friend bring me 5 cases when he was going to CT in Jan this year.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bpurbon
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dave ziegler
05-16-2008, 12:43
As a Kid I was always excited when my Dad would drive us down to Phila to are relatives in the Olney Section of Phila. We would go down Olney Ave and cross Broad at that corner in the early 1950's was a really Large whole top of a building moving sign. It had a man peddeling a High wheel bike with a Pail of Beer swinging in his hand and a little black dog chasing him! It said Get Gretz Beer Mellow Goodness! I wish I could go back in time a have a gretz. I always loved the moving sign. In the years I drove truck in Phila I found the old Gretz Brewing building on Oxford street many a time I would stop and look at it. Here is a picture of the brewery and one of an old ad and one of a label
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
05-16-2008, 12:49
Here is a Gretz can with just what the sign had, just saw I had this picture. On the sign the dog moved tail moved wheel turned and the Pail swung back anf forth! The tray I own has the dog too it is not on these but was on the sign and the rays and most of their cans.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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smokinjoe
05-16-2008, 16:37
Something came back to me recently, when I was talking to an old college buddy. The beer of choice at ole Ball U, (Ball State University--Muncie, Indiana) was Little Kings Cream Ale. I've not had it in years, and not seen it here in Atlanta, so I asked Dawn to pick me up some in Indiana, and bring them to the Sampler. (Being the awesome person she is, she did! :) ) I remember Little Kings being everywhere in college, and was a favorite of mine back then. Came in little 7 oz green bottles, and were something like $3.99 a case in the early 80's. I think part of the reason they were popular, because the bottles were small, was that you could get the girls to drink them. ;) A lot. The ones Dawn brought tasted the same, as best as I can remember, and I have been enjoying them the last couple of weeks.

I also remember liking Blatz. Don't know why, but I have fond memories of it.

Now, I'm basically a Bud man. But, I careen all over the beer world. There's a local micro here called Sweetwater, that puts out many fine beers. Their yearly Holiday Edition "Festive Ale" is excellent, and their new "Happy Ending" Russian Imperial Stout is also very nice. But, I also like a crisp Corona after a workout in the Summer, so I ain't picky.

:toast:

JOE

d_nelly78
05-16-2008, 21:27
I will say my favorite beer ever is Hazelnut Brown Nectar from Rogue Brewing Company. I had it at The Great Alaskan Beer Fest three years ago and have longed for it from the tap since. I have found it in 22 ounce bottles but not in any bar. The taste was so much better from the tap. At least to me.

ratcheer
05-17-2008, 13:41
I just bought a 12-pack of Budweiser. I am on my second one, now. It is clean and crisp, but just like everyone says, nearly tasteless. Maybe not as tasteless as Coors, but pretty near.

It is pretty warm outside, today. Bud is what I wanted and it is hitting the spot.

Tim

Mashface
05-17-2008, 17:21
Right now I'm drinking Troegenator Double Bock from the Troegs Brewery in Harrisburg, PA. It's really great stuff, here's the description from their website:

Alcohol by Volume: 8.2%
Hop Bitterness (IBU's) : 25
Color (SRM) : Bronze
Availability: Draft and Bottles Year Round
Malts: Pilsner, Munich, Chocolate
Hops: Hallertau
Yeast: Lager

TASTING NOTES
The Troegenator Double Bock, is a dark, strong lager (8.2% abv). It pours into a glass with a bronze to brown color, fluffy white head and bready malt aroma. The Troegenator leaves a rich, warming feeling and subtle spicy flavors.

I like it a lot.

Someone mentioned quite a few posts back about the Catamount Brewery, now defunct. I toured their brewery in Vermont many years ago and all I can remember is the overpowering smell of the hops. It was quite an interesting tour. If you see some Troegs brews by all means check them out!

dave ziegler
05-18-2008, 03:55
Right now I'm drinking Troegenator Double Bock from the Troegs Brewery in Harrisburg, PA. It's really great stuff, here's the description from their website:

Alcohol by Volume: 8.2%
Hop Bitterness (IBU's) : 25
Color (SRM) : Bronze
Availability: Draft and Bottles Year Round
Malts: Pilsner, Munich, Chocolate
Hops: Hallertau
Yeast: Lager

TASTING NOTES
The Troegenator Double Bock, is a dark, strong lager (8.2% abv). It pours into a glass with a bronze to brown color, fluffy white head and bready malt aroma. The Troegenator leaves a rich, warming feeling and subtle spicy flavors.

I like it a lot.

Someone mentioned quite a few posts back about the Catamount Brewery, now defunct. I toured their brewery in Vermont many years ago and all I can remember is the overpowering smell of the hops. It was quite an interesting tour. If you see some Troegs brews by all means check them out!
Hi it was me that talked about Catamount I just loved their Amber and it was a sad day when they went out of bussiness they were one of the very early Micro brewers. They had amber and I think Gold and whenever I went to new England I would go to the old Grand Union store in VT and get 5 or 6 cases to bring home! Have you tried Victory Brewing's Hop Devil I bet it would be one you would enjoy?
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
=======================================

Special Reserve
05-18-2008, 05:04
Right now I'm drinking Troegenator Double Bock from the Troegs Brewery in Harrisburg, PA. It's really great stuff, here's the description from their website:

Alcohol by Volume: 8.2%
Hop Bitterness (IBU's) : 25
Color (SRM) : Bronze
Availability: Draft and Bottles Year Round
Malts: Pilsner, Munich, Chocolate
Hops: Hallertau
Yeast: Lager

TASTING NOTES
The Troegenator Double Bock, is a dark, strong lager (8.2% abv). It pours into a glass with a bronze to brown color, fluffy white head and bready malt aroma. The Troegenator leaves a rich, warming feeling and subtle spicy flavors.

I like it a lot.

Someone mentioned quite a few posts back about the Catamount Brewery, now defunct. I toured their brewery in Vermont many years ago and all I can remember is the overpowering smell of the hops. It was quite an interesting tour. If you see some Troegs brews by all means check them out!


Mash,

That sound like a beer I would love. Unfortunately, beers like that are hard to get.

Enjoy.

Will

dave ziegler
05-20-2008, 06:01
Just a note to anyone living Near Pa and Reading Pa Legacy Brewing in Read has a person that runs a very nice pub above the Brewery and carries Many of their Micro brews plus many Micro brews forom others plus the New Reading Beer it is called the Canel street Pub and the food is great and the Beers are awesome. They also have the old time wooden tray with 3 oz I think glasses sampler of brews available
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
05-21-2008, 03:48
There were Many brands of beer made by the Old Reading brewery till they closed in 1976, some being Bergheim, Mulheim,Yorktown, Prizer,Mein and others I wondered if anyone had drank any of these? My Dad always liked Bergheim and in my mind I can still see him out in the garden running the roto tiller with a sack of cold Bergheims hanging on his belt finishing one throwing it on the ground and roto tilling it under next round. I used to drink some of them and found it not to be a bad tasting beer then at a good price and different from Reading completely!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's most Magnificent Bourbon
=====================================

dave ziegler
05-22-2008, 15:23
For those who Like a really Good Porter I am drinking one of the finest you can buy not Cheap $41.00 a case. Fullers London Porter is the best Porter I have ever drank, I found it back in april a friend and I went to a used Record Lp store in Doylestown Pa. while we were there we went into a bar that had 33 European beers on draft and Fullers From England was one of them and the guy was a Dictionary when it came to Beer. Fuller has been brewing since 1654. This stuff has a very nice malt flavor and thick with a very nice smell too. It is 5.4% by Vol. and pours a very dark almost black. If you can get this and like Good Porter give this a try. It is imported by Distingushed Brands International Littleon Co. From what I have read Fuller invented the first Euopean Porter in England, all I know is they have got it right!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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bigtoys
05-22-2008, 19:31
Just for fun, partly because I like the label, but I did like the beer when I had it a few years ago at Cowgirl in Santa Fe, I ordered a case of Alien Ale, an amber ale made by Sierra Blanca Brewing Company in New Mexico. Guess the name refers to some alien/UFO thing in Roswell years ago.

Shipping will be more than the beer, but why not as the summer and bbq season approaches.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee132/bigtoys335/alienale.jpg

CorvallisCracker
05-23-2008, 08:26
Guess the name refers to some alien/UFO thing in Roswell years ago.

Does it glow in the dark?

dave ziegler
05-27-2008, 17:37
Just got done drinking another New find that is real good and goes great with a shot. Gritty McDuff's Scottish Ale is one really good Ale Brewed and bottled by Gritty McDuff's Portland ME. I have been enjoying this since Friday when a person at the local distributer told me they got a deal on it $10. off normal price of 30.90. It is well worth the full price went back today picked up another and told him to keep one More for me!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
======================================

dave ziegler
05-29-2008, 09:12
Another Old Favorite I still buy and drink is Ballantine XXX Ale now made custom for the Pabst Group it is very much like it always was and I sure enjoy it. Just don't take a deep smell a strong Corn flake Smell but very refreshing in the Mouth and light enough to have more then one!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
================================================

dave ziegler
06-03-2008, 05:13
I have been drinking Moosehead Beer this past week and find it to be just as good as it was when I drank it 20 yrs ago. I also think the New Narragansett is really a good beer for a macro beer I always get my friend to bring me many cases when he goes through CT to Boston.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most magnificent Bourbon
=======================================

Jono
06-03-2008, 06:37
The problem for me...with Moosehead and other green glass beers is the skunkiness.....after the initial scent disappears it tastes fine.

I have not really explored dozens and dozens of microbrews...the ones I have had I have generally enjoyed....my regular purchase beers tend to come from Sam Adams, Goose Island, Leinenkugle, plus for mass produced...Michelob family, Molson, various U.K. / Irish imports...ales, stouts, porters and some continental brands, Mexican beers etc. For parties, as discussed on an earlier thread...knowing what your guests like > various light beers...yuck!...plus some decent other offerings.

dave ziegler
06-03-2008, 09:00
I love Sam Adams but it is over priced so I tend not to buy it much, Leinenkugle is one I to like. I also Like some what would be called Cheap beers. I hate Bud & Coors but I love Iron City Beer it is no frills but a smooth drink on a very Hot day I tend to keep two 30 packs around of it. I have not Had Molson in years and may give it a run one of these days. If you Like Porter you should get some Fullers London Porter it is awesome exspensive $41. a case but wonderful to drink. I also Like Yuengling Porter and Stegmaier Porter made by the Loin. I have loved Porter since I was 18 yrs old and got some of the Old Brand Kaiers made in Mahanoy City Pa. There is something to be said for its medicine like flavor!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-11-2008, 12:18
Another old Beer from the past I never got to try was Peoples Beer used to have a bulls eye on the can and said hits the spot. Brewed by Peoples Brewing Oshkosh Wis! Or Maier Brewings ABC Beer.And back in the day Hampden Beer & Ale brewed by Hampden Harvard Willimansett Mass. And Chief Oshkosh Beer has anyone ever had any of these? When I was young I liked Bohemian Club Beer a good tasting Macro beer.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-12-2008, 11:51
Even though I do not like Budweiser I personly hope they can keep Inbev from buying them. I am tired of Inbev, they are the great company that destroyed Rolling rock and I am tired of everything in the USA being taken over by people from other countrys this sell and make money now thing is not good what ever happen to nice steady growth in bussiness so that it lasts for yrs and employes people for years not buy it close and go to you know where to the people who worked there and made the Product Great! I say Leave are American beers Alone!
I have just gotten a call from a friend whio has brought me back a case of my Naaragansett from Boston so that makes my day anyone who lives up that way Give Gannsett a try.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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snakster
06-12-2008, 17:29
I try to stick to PA. My favorite is Stoudt's Scarlet Lady Ale (ESB). My 'everyday' is Stegmaier 1857 lager.

Jazzhead
06-12-2008, 18:26
Count me as a PA drinker, too. Mostly Yuengling's (at bars) and Straubs (at home). There's one bar in Philly that has Straubs on tap - the Society Hill Hotel. Nice hang!

I grew up around New Haven, and my grandfather always drank Hulls, so I did too, at least for the year or so they remained in existance. I remember the day the brewery closed; I drove up to the Hill to get a last look. Later somebody hauled down the Gambrinus statue on the facade, who had toasted the town for a century, I remember there was a picture of it in the New Haven Register and it said it would be in the custody of the Union Trust company. Some thirty years later, I'm told, the statue's never been found.

TNbourbon
06-12-2008, 19:08
Well, I didn't buy a beer for personal consumption till I was almost 50, so I'm a johnny-come-lately here. But, for personal favorites today, I enjoy Flying Dog Old Scratch amber lager, Harp's lager, Negra Modelo, the draught version of Michelob Amber Bock, Heineken...
But, I may have discovered a new favorite this week -- or, at least, a new toy for as long as supply lasts: Sun Dog Amber Wheat by Anheuser-Busch, their newest seasonal (spring), brewed February-May. Well-chilled, it has really been enjoyable in the unseasonable heat we're already having. I went back to Kroger and grabbed another 12 bottles today. It'll be my house beer till supply runs out, I think. Which may be next week.:skep:

Gillman
06-12-2008, 19:15
Tim: just curious, but coming to beer as late as you did, did you find the taste, especially of the assertive micros and imports, challenging at the beginning? Usually it is an acquired taste (taking some years, at least for what some might call real beer). Did you find you acquired the taste quite quickly once you decided to sample beer regularly? Or did it still take some time to appreciate, say a Flying Dog pale ale?

Gary

TNbourbon
06-12-2008, 19:29
Tim: just curious, but coming to beer as late as you did, did you find the taste, especially of the assertive micros and imports, challenging at the beginning? Usually it is an acquired taste (taking some years, at least for what some might call real beer). Did you find you acquired the taste quite quickly once you decided to sample beer regularly? Or did it still take some time to appreciate, say a Flying Dog pale ale?

Gary

Gary, I think the fact that I assayed whiskey first aided in my eventual enjoyment of beer. Whiskey is, after all, distilled beer.
You'll remember that health concerns kept me from alcohol, in general, till I was almost 40. Wine and whiskey came first only by happenstance. Once I discovered beer, I was more fully prepared to evaluate my likes and dislikes because of my bourbon/whiskey experience.
For whatever it's worth, Gary, I STILL don't like pale ales, generally.:lol: I HAVE learned that not all beers, like whiskeys, are equal, so I might find one or more in ANY genre to enjoy -- though I've also found that ambers and wheats are more promising, to me, than others.

Gillman
06-12-2008, 20:04
Okay, thanks. But you would like a true English-style pale ale I believe!

Gary

dave ziegler
06-13-2008, 04:49
Gary, I think the fact that I assayed whiskey first aided in my eventual enjoyment of beer. Whiskey is, after all, distilled beer.
You'll remember that health concerns kept me from alcohol, in general, till I was almost 40. Wine and whiskey came first only by happenstance. Once I discovered beer, I was more fully prepared to evaluate my likes and dislikes because of my bourbon/whiskey experience.
For whatever it's worth, Gary, I STILL don't like pale ales, generally.:lol: I HAVE learned that not all beers, like whiskeys, are equal, so I might find one or more in ANY genre to enjoy -- though I've also found that ambers and wheats are more promising, to me, than others.
Tim You should give Fullers London Porter a try it is the BEST Porter I have ever drank and worth the $40. a case! I don't know maybe you have never had good Porter but it does not have that heavy Hopiness as the pale Ales do, it is very smooth. I started drinking again in 2006 after about 25 yrs as I had esoigus Ulsers for years from Medicine I had taken for pain but now that I had the test again in Aug 2006 and all healed by Nexium can enjoy Beer and Whiskey again I do not drink much wine as the acidity in it bothers me! Beer has always been a big thing for me and I have tried more Beers then I can count in my life. When we worked at the Distillery we would go out every Friday to get a beer at lunch time.
Give the Fullers a try, I do not have alot of Money but I tasted it on draft and had to get some!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-13-2008, 04:55
Gary Have you ever had Fullers London Porter? If so what do you think of it? I always like to get other peoples thoughts on this and you are someone who's opinion I enjoy hearing!
Dave Z
Old Hickory Ameria's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
06-13-2008, 06:02
Yes Dave I have, we get the same canned version here you mentioned. It is excellent, I agree.

Porter was invented in England - in fact in London - in the early 1700's. One would expect (or hope) that a version still made in that city would be authentic, and it is.

For a while, porter died out in its native land but in recent decades it came back - it was Americans who kept it going in the interim (also Eastern Europe and other odd places).

There are many excellent U.S. porters, not all costly (easy to find the high end ones and most are very good, e.g., Anchor Porter, Black Butte, etc.). For more reasonably priced ones, I like Yeungling's Porter and always have, same for Stegmaier Porter if it is still made.

Ballantine made a Porter, sold in the little stubby bottle, about 30 years ago, but no more.

But Yeungling's recipe is very good and authentic too, that place has been going since the 1800's and its porter has been made probably since then.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-13-2008, 16:51
Yes Gary they still make Stegmaier Porter and it is very good it is really dark in color and thick. Stegmaier is made by the Loin from the original recipe. And I always have some Yeungling Porter around. That is right on about the Porter being invented in England, and I love the Fullers never had it in a can bottles here. Back in April I took a tour of the original Yeungling Brewery and it is such a neat place they even have the old caves they used to age the beer in down below! And the wall is still there where the Feds walled it shut during Proibition!
BE WELL GARY
Dave Z
Old Hickory
America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
---------==============--------

Gillman
06-13-2008, 17:20
Thanks, and a note about porter and stout might not be out of place.

What is stout? What is porter?

Well, they are related. The term stout derives from "stout porter" (strong porter), and then it got shortened to stout. The term stout as used in beer pre-dates porter, it was used to mean strong beer (any beer), and that is how it came to be applied to the porter style.

However, Guinness innovated by adding unmalted (raw) barley to the mash to make its famous stout porter. So, stout evolved as a different style. (Note how unmalted barley is also added to Irish mashing bills for whiskey). Porter has stuck with an all-malt mashbill or at least that is a hallmark of the style.

Originally, as noted, porter was weaker than stout. That seems less so today in general terms, and each style in fact has different levels of strength.

However, in the family of black beers - black ales, not lagers - black lagers are a different story - porter came first and came to America with early Britsih settlers. Its survival in America via Yeungling and Stegmaier is quite remarkable. We had porters (pre-micro) in Canada too, Molson's was the best.

I have had the Fullers Porter in the bottle too. I prefer it (as most beers) in the can because the light can't get in. Cans are fine as long as it is a fresh can. The English make excellent beers in this style. I like a lot Samual Smith Imperial Stout, which isn't as brutishly strong as some Imperials, it is about 7% ABV - strong enough, and it has the trademark Imperial Stout taste. Sam Smith make a porter too, Taddy Porter, but I think Fuller's porter is better.

There are porter imports that are actually an excellent value. There is one from Russia (from a well known lager brewer) that is excellent, and I've bought it in New York, a large bottle, for $1.99 or so. The Baltic and East European areas have specialised in a small way in porters since the 1800's, and their beers often sell here for much less than imports from Germany and elsewhere in Western Europe and often are better beers.

Stout and porter generally last a long time, in the bottle anyway - an exception to the rule that super-freshness is a desideratum with most beer.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-13-2008, 18:40
Thanks Gary That is very Interesting Information and I will look around to see if anyone has the Fullers in Cans. I sort of like Beer in Cans myself and they take up alot less room too! The Yeungling is a wonderful Porter. When I was young we used to get a Really great Porter Made by a Brewer called Kaiers in Mohanoy CFity Pa about 15 miles from Pottsville it very Dark and thick and just Delious. I never forgot and have loved porter ever since. Did you ever hear of Kaiers Special Beer They actually won a Medal in Begium back in the late 1960's for their Beers first place. Thanks again for the Information and BE WELL
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
06-14-2008, 05:37
Dave: in the books on the history of beer they often quote a poem from the 1600's in which a poet dreams of "a pint of stout and a mutton chop" to "surprise his muse" (get inspiration) (poets rarely have much cash). This was before the Guinness type of stout was invented, and before porter, too. It meant any strong beer. Lots of strong beers are still made of course, everything from malt liquor to the strong ales from the micros.

As for the mutton well, the British brought that to America too - you can still get it in Kentucky, barbequed, not in chops (that I have seen).

Kaier's Special gets a good rating in Jim Robertson's book, he doesn't mention the porter though. Maybe by the early 80's the porter wasn't available, or Robertson didn't find it. I myself do not recall it but I was buying U.S. beers in Plattsburgh, NY and other areas in the North East (mostly New York State though), so I mightn't have seen it necessarily. E.g., I first found Ballantine IPA and Porter on Cape Cod but they weren't available in Plattsburgh as far as I can recall.

In pint bottles at many of the larger beverage stores and large food markets you can get 20 ounce pints of Guinness Stout that is actually made in Canada (in New Brunswick) by a Guinness subsidiary or licensee there. This is an excellent drink, and offered at a good price. It is drier than Fuller's Porter and has the flavor of roasted barley that I mentioned. This stout is sold in regular glass bottles, not cans or the shaped 12 ounce black bottle, that's how you know it is the "Canadian" one (plus on the side it states it is from Canada).

But anyway stouts and porters are closely related beers: both use dark-roasted malts and both are ales (top-fermented). But as I said porter normally doesn't also use flaked or other unmalted barley, at least as far as I know.

Gary

Gillman
06-14-2008, 06:00
Here's another beer story. When I first moved to Toronto in the early 80's, I took a drive to the Buffalo area and drove west along Lake Erie. I came to Dunkirk, a fishing town - or it was - fishing in Erie today is much reduced. I went to find Fred Koch's (pronounced Cook's), a local brewery. I may have mentioned this visit some time ago on SB, but I'll do it again since you can always add a different twist.

By the time I got there, it had closed, and the Koch brands were being made by Genessee Brewery in Rochester, NY (now called High Falls Brewery).

However, the local taverns still carried the beers and also, there was still in the stores a beer the closed brewery had made, a Porter whose recipe came from a company called Vaux in England - Vaux had bought Koch's as a way to expand but it didn't work out in the end. That Porter was excellent, it was dark ruby brown, as the original porters were, with a typical English fruity top-ferment taste.

The Koch's beers, even by pre-micro standards, were okay (IMO), not great. I liked their Deer Run Ale, and especially Black Horse Ale, a brand that used to get around you might say. It was originally Canadian, then produced in at least two different markets in the U.S., probably it was licensed by the Canadian owner to different makers. The ones I know were Koch's and Champale, and this information is from Robertson's book I've mentioned before.

Koch's Black Horse was excellent beer which Robertson praised quite rightfully.

Anyway I'm in Dunkirk asking about the beers and the guys in the taverns added extra information. One told me a favored drink in town was to blend 2 parts Koch's lager to 1 part the porter I mentioned. And a good blend it was (and is, since you can use any lager and porter or stout to do this).

Some of the brand names from Koch's were Iroquois, Phoenix and Simon Pure (the latter acquired from the famous Buffalo, NY brewery that expired in the 60's or around then).

So I had a couple of rounds in a bar in town, and the beer was good (especially the draft). And a fried fish sandwich, and I came home to Canada saddened that another piece of local brewing heritage was lost.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-14-2008, 14:43
Gary Have you ever had Yuengling Bllack & Tan? It is half Yuengling Premium Beer and half Yuengling Porter it is a very nice drink! Funny you brought up the Black Horse Ale as I have an old empty can of it on my Office desk never had it but was told many times it was real nice Ale.
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
06-14-2008, 14:49
Never had the black and tan, but I've had their Premium and the porter numerous times, so I can envision the combination.

The idea of the half and half is very old. In fact, porter itself derives from a blending of beers. Generally, an aged and young brown beer were blended, sometimes with a pale ale.

The aged beer had a tart, citric taste (in those pre-pasteurisation days). The brown ale was sweet and fresh, not too hopped. The pale ale probably was similar to beers of that description today.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-16-2008, 08:10
Gary that is interesting as the Bar where I first tasted Fullers London Porter on draft told me that hundreds of years ago the way Fullers came to making porter was that when they had old beer they would blend others with it to make a beer up for the Poorer People in town. Well it was a Pain so they thought about premaking it and tasted some of the mixtures they were selling and found them to be real nice and that is how porter was born so he said have you read anything on that story about Fullers as he said they invented Porter!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
06-16-2008, 08:36
Fuller's did not invent Porter but as an old London brewery, it would have been selling it for a long time (since the 1800's at least, and probably into the 1950's or so - for some decades porter then disappeared from the U.K. - but then some brewers brought it back, including Fuller.).

It is true that porter originally was a blend of beers (I mentioned this in an earlier note).

It is also true that one of the beers used in the blend was an aged brown beer that would have been winy or acidic in taste. In those years, without pasteurisation, the beers just went off after a while.

It was a habit in the pubs to mix the old acidic beer with new, fresh sweet beer. So some people drank a half and half of old and new brown ale. Some people added pale ale to it, to give an additional flavor.

These blends were called, when made with 3 beers, three threads (thread being a corruption of the term "third") - three thirds, one third each beer.

The publican drew from the different taps to make this up.

A brewer then had the idea to make a beer that had the attributes of the blend, first it was called "entire", and then porter because London porters (who pushed and pulled carts loaded with goods in pre-motoring days) seemed to favor it as a drink.

There is however a fair amount of uncertainty about aspects of this story. At another time I'll explain more about it. For now, it can be said safely that no one is sure exactly what the first porter brewer made. He might have blended beers in his own brewery to equal what the publicals were drawing from their casks. He might have made a beer from one mash as opposed to the earlier practice of making progressively weaker beers from worts drawn from separate soakings of the same batch of malt (parti-gyle brewing). So there is lack of clarity, but porter as a strongish, somewhat tart, somewhat sweet dark brown beer emerged as a style in London (specifically) in the early 1700's, that much is clear.

I have had Fuller Porter on draft too, in Ontario, and it is excellent. It has (to my taste) a slight hint of licorice. Licorice was a favored additive for porter in the 1800's.

Gary

Gillman
06-16-2008, 09:08
By the way for the beer fans, it may be noted that aged brown beer of the type mentioned is still available, in Belgium, and often exported to the U.S.

Petrus Brown is one such. Liefman's Brown Ale is another, and there are others.

Russian River in Jim's neighborhood is also aging beers now in wooden barrels to get this kind of vinous character (it should be tart/sourish but not sour as vinegar, at least IMO).

Those breweries in Belgium sometimes blend a beer like I explained earlier. But also they will sell the aged one on its own, because some people acquired the taste for it (then and now).

You can blend a porter yourself. Take e.g., a Petrus Brown Ale, aged some 17 months in wood, and blend it to your liking with any new, sweetish brown ale. When I do it, I add just a little of the old beer (say 10% or so). Guinness stout used to be made, and maybe still is, with a very small amount of a "soured" beer in it. The sourish edge of a well-blended porter is refreshing and may satisfy those who found a fresh malty beer too sweet.

The Belgians just carried on with these old practices from hundreds of years ago.

Jeff or Ed, if you have made a brown ale and have an old one which may have gone south just a bit, add it to some fresh new dark beer (yours or a bought one): the results often are very good.

You can try adding a pale ale, too, to get an original three threads.

This thing about blending, vatting: I wish I could say I invented it but I didn't. It's knowledge that is as old as the hills.

By the way, the addition of sourish beer to a fresh new one can be explained possibly by a brewer's habit not to throw away old beer - and in the end consumers got the taste for the blends. Another explanation I've read is that if you add a tart beer to a fresh one, you can get the pH to a point where the beer stabilises - an important consideration in the era of pre-pasteurisation, pre-refrigeration. Apparently the pH stabilization was used in areas which did not have a large supply of hops available, since hops originally were the first preservative.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-16-2008, 11:27
Thank you Gary I can always count on you to get me right on these things, and as you said Fullers London Porter is wonderful on draft!
Thanks Gary and Be Well-!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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snakster
06-16-2008, 11:27
Yes Gary they still make Stegmaier Porter and it is very good it is really dark in color and thick. Stegmaier is made by the Lion from the original recipe.
I, too, dig on the Stegmaier Porter. To be honest, there isn't much that comes out of the Lion that I don't like.

dave ziegler
06-16-2008, 12:47
Ron right you are Stegmaier Porter is one nice Porter and as you said the Lion Does things Right! Have you had Reading Premuim Yet? The Lion does that for them also!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Its Food
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New2Whiskey
06-17-2008, 16:22
FULLERS LONDON PORTER

After reading these posts, I went ahead and purchased this beer. Excellent I must say.

I had 4 already. I like it better at room temperature than chilled in the fridge. Actually, it is stored in the basement. Which is slighter cooler.

Gillman
06-17-2008, 16:37
That sounds an ideal temperature. However, if a beer is very good, I can drink it at room temperature and have done so for many years. Once you get the taste for it, you can do that. I once read when much younger that it was a brewer's habit to do so. I found it hard to believe, but in time did the same thing. When first travelling in England in the early 1980's, I noticed people doing this with any kind of beer (not just draught bitter which is typically served - or should be - at a coolish temperature). Again, it took a while, but once the taste is acquired, it is easy. Still, I know very few people who actually do this.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-18-2008, 06:04
Hey Gary Drank some Yuengling Lager warmer then I do and I still like my beer and Porter and Ale Cold But in a pinch it is ok and seems to have a special mouthfeel you do not get cold. Just wanted to give it a try. Another beer I always wish I could have tired was Bavarian Beer "Mount Carbon Brewing" which used to sit right down the street from Yuengling and I have been told those days used to outsell Yuengling. I was told they hit hard times and Yuengling bought them out and never made the Brand again. To Many Beers to little time!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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Gillman
06-18-2008, 07:30
Well, e.g., the porter at just a cool temperature (say around 60 F.) might be interesting I think but not when it is too hot, say late at night on the porch. I find these dark ales and porters, or any dark rich beer, tend to drink well at just a cellar coolness, and it is similar in that regard to red wine. However the colder it is in the surrounding temperature, the more enjoyable it is to sample the beers this way.

I'll never forget seeing people on English trains drinking even cans of lager at strict room temperature (this in the early 80's). It amazed me to see that! Today, beer almost always is served cold in England, except for real ale drawn on pumps generally pulled by hand, a l'Americaine.

Gary

CorvallisCracker
06-18-2008, 10:52
I'll never forget seeing people on English trains drinking even cans of lager at strict room temperature (this in the early 80's). It amazed me to see that! Today, beer almost always is served cold in England, except for real ale drawn on pumps generally pulled by hand, a l'Americaine.

Gary

Back in the late '60s and early '70s, I and my other motorcycle riding friends all rode either Japanese or German bikes, and were amused by the problems which bedeviled owners of British bikes, chiefly oil leaks and failures of the various electrical components (these made by the firm of Lucas).

One of our favorite jokes was:

Q. Why do the British drink warm beer?

A. Because they have Lucas refrigerators.

jesskidden
06-18-2008, 11:58
Another beer I always wish I could have tired was Bavarian Beer "Mount Carbon Brewing" which used to sit right down the street from Yuengling and I have been told those days used to outsell Yuengling. I was told they hit hard times and Yuengling bought them out and never made the Brand again.
----------=====================--------

"Bavarian Beer" was still being brewed by Yuengling into the late 1970's (it's pictured in Yuengling's pamphlet from the era- in deposit pint and 12 ounce steinie returnable bottles), as was "Old German", another economy brand from YBC (not to be confused with a number of other "Old German" brands that were brewed by a several breweries).

Bavarian was probably strictly local - tho', the Yuengling beers themselves were still pretty much Eastern PA only at that time. I bought a case or two over the years (I was a sucker for the steinie bottle), along with other deleted Y. beers like their Bock and Chesterfield in brown deposit quarts and long necks (better than the green bottles).

Never really thought about where the Mt. Carbon brewery was located now that you mention it (Mt. Carbon is a "section" of Pottsville, south of town, isn't it?), even tho' they'd only been closed for a few years when I first went to Pottsville on a beer/brewery run (1976 was their final year). IIRC the era when they were outselling Yuengling was the 1960's.

jesskidden
06-18-2008, 12:20
I went to find Fred Koch's (pronounced Cook's), a local brewery.
By the time I got there, it had closed, and the Koch brands were being made by Genessee Brewery in Rochester, NY the stores a beer the closed brewery had made, a Porter whose recipe came from a company called Vaux in England - Vaux had bought Koch's as a way to expand but it didn't work out in the end. That Porter was excellent, it was dark ruby brown, as the original porters were, with a typical English fruity top-ferment taste.

Gary

I was living in the Finger Lakes area when Vaux bought Koch's, and expanded their distribution to reach us there in central NYS. Besides the great Porter, they also "revived" an old Koch label, Holiday Beer, and it, too, was a very nice beer for the era. Pretty sure that same Christmas (1983 or 1984) was one of the first appearances of Matt's Christmas brew, too- seasonals (save for the few remaining "bocks") were pretty rare back then. I was sad to hear they closed and sold out to Genesee- never made the drive to Dunkirk.





The Koch's beers, even by pre-micro standards, were okay (IMO), not great. I liked their Deer Run Ale, and especially Black Horse Ale, a brand that used to get around you might say. It was originally Canadian, then produced in at least two different markets in the U.S., probably it was licensed by the Canadian owner to different makers. The ones I know were Koch's and Champale, and this information is from Robertson's book I've mentioned before.

Koch's Black Horse was excellent beer which Robertson praised quite rightfully.


The story of "Black Horse Ale" in the US is pretty interesting, more so than the typical "contract brew". "Black Horse Ale" was a pretty popular export to the US, apparently, from Dow in Montreal. Dow collapsed after some beer killed a few folks (due to a "foam enhancer" containing cobalt) and Carling bought the brands but somehow neglected to protect the name of "Black Horse Ale" in the US and the Diamond Spring Brewing Company of Lawrence, MA simply registered the name. They brewed the ale (at a rather high 7.5%) for the US (south to Florida, west to Colorado), and later reduced the alcohol to a bit over 6%. (info from BEER NEW ENGLAND by Will Anderson).

As you note, the beer continued on as a Koch brand (Diamond Spring closed in 1972) and the way I remember it, *they* licensed it to Champale. Living in NJ, I was more familiar with that version, which, when fresh, was very nice but often just sat around and got skunky (green bottle). The Koch version, after an updating of the label design by Vaux, was better but, again, maybe because it was moving off the shelves better at the time.

Genny, after they bought the Koch brand, also brewed the Black Horse for a time- so they had both "12 Horse Ale" and "Black Horse Ale" on the market at the same time. Sadly, by then, the 12 Horse was a mere shadow of it's former self- having been reformulated to be a "Canadian" style ale rather than the UK style it had once been. (Genesee was the only US brewery using Burton Unions for its ale, post-Repeal, according to their advertising at the time).

jesskidden
06-18-2008, 12:41
Yes Gary they still make Stegmaier Porter and it is very good it is really dark in color and thick. Stegmaier is made by the Loin from the original recipe.
---------==============--------

I don't know which is the "original" recipe, but the final versions of Stegmaier Porter (and, as I recall, the early version from the Lion) in the 1970's had a distinct licorice flavor due to the addition of (duh) unsweetened licorice (as the brewmaster was quoted, in a 1970's era publication from The Lion). At the time, the early "proto-beer geeks" felt such an addition was inauthentic and often knocked the beer- just as they knocked most of the US surviving porters for being brewed with lager yeast (this, of course, before the sub-style of "Pennsylvania Porter" (http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/porterstyl.html#porterine) was recognized). I once had a friendly argument going in print with a well-known beer writer, who felt that way about Yuengling Porter ("If they called it a "dark lager", I'd say I liked it.")

The licorice-flavored Steg. Porter (with a strange label featuring the side view of horse's head, in deposit long necks, cases only, tho' many retailers sold it as singles back then) was distributed at least as far east as central NJ- I used to buy cases of it for a friend's father who worked at Pabst in Newark- maybe one of the first "beer incidences" that made me realize that not "all beer is the same". Don't remember when it disappeared, but when The Lion re-introduced it, with new graphics and in six-packs, I was looking forward to that licorice taste again, only to be disappointed with a typical "OK" porter. Perhaps it was more authentic, perhaps it's the true "original" Stegmaier Porter recipe, but I miss the old stuff.

jesskidden
06-18-2008, 12:57
Kaier's Special gets a good rating in Jim Robertson's book, he doesn't mention the porter though. Maybe by the early 80's the porter wasn't available, or Robertson didn't find it.



Kaier's was bought by Ortlieb in the mid-1960's- think they even ran the brewery for a couple of years more in Mahoney City, and then the brand became just amother "economy" beers from Ortlieb. The strange thing was, while Ortlieb's distribution shrank at the time to South Jersey and Phila.-area PA, I could find the Kaiers in a few large liquor stores in NJ, where it was often the cheapest beer around- sold only by the case, in returnable steinie bottles. I remember once going to the local "drive-thru" beer store (a rarity in itself in the state) and asking for a case of Ortlieb by mistake. The guy didn't know what I was talking about- THEN I remembered it was *Kaier's* they sold.

I sort of doubt Ortlieb continued the porter in bottle- a few years later, they expanded their line with the addition of a stout (Boarhead), malt liquor (Coqui) and McSorley's Ale (purchased when Rheingold folded), but at the time they were pretty much strictly a "light lager" brewery, with the exception of their version of Neuweiler Ale.

Gillman
06-18-2008, 13:52
Thanks Jess. Robertson did mention that Kaier's by then was a brand of Ortlieb's.

I do feel that bottom fermentation does not deliver the true aleish (estery) taste that top-ferments generally do. However licorice was added to many porters in the 1800's, so I feel that is an authentic taste. The old Champlain Porter in Quebec had a similar licorice hint.

True, originally (1700's) possibly licorice was not used, i.e. it might have been one of the 1800's additions used to enhance color once they started using a lot of pale malt in the mash, but it became an accepted part of the palate IMO.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-18-2008, 17:03
The Kaiers Porter was the very first porter I ever drank and I drank it till it was gone when Ortliebs bought the Name and the brewery as you said. They did run it for a year or so then closed it and when they ran it they also ended up buying F&S and making the Beers there for abit. By any chance did you ever drink Krueger? I have wanted to find someone who had drank Krueger just for their opinion of it!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-19-2008, 03:37
One of my old Time Favorite Ales is still one of my Favorites. I find that Ballantine XXX Ale is still a great tasting Ale, it is now owned again by the Pabst group and I am not sure who brews it for them but it is like the old days don't smell it just drink it cold. I find it to be Very Refreshing and flavorful not to heavy. It is one I always have a case of.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Its Food
---------------------------------------

jesskidden
06-19-2008, 05:29
I find that Ballantine XXX Ale is still a great tasting Ale, it is now owned again by the Pabst group and I am not sure who brews it for them but it is like the old days ...
---------------------------------------

Ballantine XXX Ale was my long time standard "house" beer (1970's-early 1980's)- there's no way I'd say it is anything close to same as it was during the Newark and Cranston eras or even the Ft. Wayne or Pabst Milwaukee days. I recently got a case from my b-i-l after I lent him some equipment and the flavor profile is so sad these days. No nice floral hop nose, none of that nice sweetness, the hoppiness is gone from the aftertaste.

I do notice that Pabst recently changed the cardboard case graphics, dropping "America's Largest Selling Ale" -which, of course, it isn't having lost that title to Genesee Cream Ale back in the 1980's and nowadays, who knows? Certainly SNPA probably outsells it easily. (The labels still says "ALSA", tho'). It now says "Dry Hopped Flavor". Don't know what *that* means- why not just "Dry Hopped"? (Of course, the original Ballantine XXX Ale wasn't dry hopped, but had brewery distilled hop oils added, by most accounts).

The ownership of the brand, despite what some internet sites suggest, has always been in the same hands since the sad demise of P. Ballantine and Sons in 1972. Falstaff bought the brands, S&P bought Falstaff and eventually Pabst. Currently the ale's brewed by Miller, in NC, as can be discerned by the date code on the neck of the bottles/bottom of the cans (in the second line of numbers, the second digit represents the brewery, in this case "5".) This is a recent change, last time we talked about it here*, it was still Ohio ("8").

There's a great history of the ale here- The Late, Great Ballantine Ales (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_13_51/ai_63841298)
(It's a few years old, so some of the info- like brewing site- is no longer accurate. In addition, some of the brewery history facts are wrong, too.)

* Gary Gillman and I have had several Ballantine discussions here on the forums since that was the subject that first led me here to Straightbourbon while I was doing some research on the brewery and brand.

Gillman
06-19-2008, 05:44
Ah Ballantine XXX again. I am not quite as down as Jess on the beer today. I had it in New York not too long ago and it seemed reasonably good to me.

I must say though it does seem variable, sometimes it has a bigger character than other times.

In Robertson's The Great American Beer Book (1978 edition), he states it is heavily hopped and strong-tasting, in fact he found it too hopped apparently even for his own taste. But that was then, when tastes had not accustomed fully to that of a true craft beer.

Still, the current profile seems lesser than it was then.

As for the IPA: I always hope it will come back, but sometimes I am having a beer and it reminds me of that IPA. Recently I was sampling Wells IPA in a can and it struck me as being similar. Sometimes the Granite Best Bitter at Granite Brewpub in Toronto is similar in taste.

I recall the taste quite well.

I also remember one (anyway) of the variations of Black Horse Ale. One of the beer writers, maybe Roberston, said it was like "talc" or "talcum powder" and that was true, it must have been the hops used.

By 1970 when I started consuming beer in Montreal, Black Horse was not sold any longer as far as I recall. The beer that was thought by some to contribute to multiple deaths in Quebec City - it was never shown to a certainty as far as I know - was, again this from memory, O'Keefe Ale. I thought even then this was a brand of Carling O'Keefe, which later merged with Molson.

Gary

jesskidden
06-19-2008, 06:01
Ballantine made a Porter, sold in the little stubby bottle, about 30 years ago, but no more.


Near as I can figure, Ballantine Porter disappeared in the late 40's or 1950's. It was still listed as one of their line up in the '39-40 NY World's Fair era literature (Ballantine was a big WF exhibitor) but was no longer offer by 1964 (in the official NJ state price listing). I have *vague* memories that it survived as a draught-only beer, perhaps even into the Falstaff era...



The Kaiers Porter was the very first porter I ever drank... By any chance did you ever drink Krueger? I have wanted to find someone who had drank Krueger just for their opinion of it!


Krueger was bought by Narragansett in 1960, so it was a bit too early for my drinking days. (However, I probably had a sip or two, since we lived in the Newark area and I certainly remember the old "K Man" logo as one of my earliest memories...)

I drank some of the Narrangansett/Falstaff brewed Kruger (and, maybe the Krueger Cream Ale). The Krueger Pilsener, at that time, came in same no-shoulder, slender clear deposit bottle that Miller High Life came in and in those clear US style stubbies- as a result, they often suffered from skunking.

Falstaff was still shipping the Krueger Old Surrey Porter to NJ as a draught only beer as late as the late-1970's and that was far and away my favorite porter of the era. It was much hoppier than most US porters and, like other Cranston brews like Croft and Pickwick, had a definite family relationship in taste to Ballantine XXX Ale. (Indeed, I wouldn't put it past Falstaff to having simply added "Porterine" to XXX Ale to make KOSP). I seem to remember that Falstaff also sold it as "Ballantine Porter" but I'm not sure about that at all.


The old Champlain Porter in Quebec had a similar licorice hint.


Ah, yes, I remember that Champlain Porter. When friends or I used to get to Canada we always tried to bring back some of the Big 3 brands that we couldn't get down here. The porters (I recall Molson Porter in stubbies and maybe a Labatt brewed one as well?) were quite nice- unlike the Canadian IPA's which were a BIG disappoint to Ballantine India Pale Ale drinkers- in particular the Labatt IPA.

The hoppiest Canadian ale I remember we found was Molson Stock Ale- sadly the one case we scored of that was mostly consumed before I got to the party, so I only had 1 bottle of it. (I've read that it, like many of the US pre-craft era ales, is a mere shadow of it's former self).

jesskidden
06-19-2008, 06:26
The beer that was thought by some to contribute to multiple deaths in Quebec City - it was never shown to a certainty as far as I know - was, again this from memory, O'Keefe Ale. I thought even then this was a brand of Carling O'Keefe, which later merged with Molson.

Gary

Opps. (OTOH, the "cobalt poisoning" story is always a good one to review)- did not mean to imply Black Horse Ale was *the* beer that had the "foam enhancer" problem, only that it was from the same brewing company.

I'm going by info in the book "Brewed in Canada: The Untold Story of Canada's 350 Year Old Brewing History" and it has the beer in question being "Dow Ale" and Dow, at the time, being owned by Canadian Breweries Ltd.-which would later become Carling-O'Keefe. (Pretty sure I've seen some interesting video on the story on a Canadian Brewing History website, too.)

The info that "Carling" neglected to retain the rights to the "Black Horse Ale" brand come from the Anderson book's interview with the owners of Diamond Springs.

My mistake was confusing "Dow" with "Dawes", which was the listed brewing company for Black Horse Ale in the US when it was an imported beer. So who/what was "Dawes Black Horse Brewery"? In the late 40's, the ale was listed as being brewed and bottled by "National Breweries Ltd., Montreal, Canada".

Gillman
06-19-2008, 06:47
Jess, thanks again, and you are right, I misspoke, that 1960's cobalt foam enhancer issue was linked to Dow Ale not O'Keefe Ale. Dow as a brand did not recover from the debacle although once again it was never shown conclusively that the beer caused the problem.

Gary

Gillman
06-19-2008, 06:53
Dawes was an old Montreal brewing concern, so it must have been the first brewer of Black Horse. By the 1950's, it sounds like it may have become part of the national Canadian Breweries business which as you said housed the Dow and O'Keefe brands in the 1960's and which later merged with Molson.

A note soon on the beers themselves.

Gary

Gillman
06-19-2008, 07:03
A note on these Canadian beers from the 1950's and 60's, i.e., the beers themselves:

Dow Ale: At this late date I cannot recall its palate. Probably it was similar to Molson Export and others of the Canadian sparkling ale-type that were popular then.

O'Keefe Ale: I recall this beer as being excellent for its type: carbonic, "fluffy", with good Canadian 6 row barley malt character and a light estery note. I am not sure if it is still sold. I think a beer branded O'Keefe may still be sold in parts of Canada but if so I would think it is a bottom-fermented beer made in enclosed big cylindrical/conical tanks (although I do not know for sure). I am not sure when O'Keefe Ale first came in, it may be after Dow expired as a brand but perhaps it originated earlier. It was very popular in Eastern Canada in the 1970's and 1980's. I will check at the beer store if a beer under this name is still available.

Molson Stock Ale: Still made, a beer that has a retro appeal to some in Ontario. Decent beer but not really reminiscent of English ales which are at the root (way back) of Canadian brewing tradition. Apparently all-malt.

Labatt 50: Good product, quite estery, made in open fermenters in London, Ontario in the era we are discussing. Still available and still good, you can get it on draft a block or two from where I work in Toronto.

Molson Export Ale: Still a good beer with an earthy, distinctive note. Malty for its type, not estery though (Labatt 50 is more so).

Labatt IPA: Not made for some 10 years now. Nice malty character, some hop notes of the non-aromatic type (as I recall). Not a micro-styled product but decent and probably very good when available on draft.

Alexander Keith's IPA: This big brewery beer, made by Labatt/Inbev, is excellent and notably estery, it has when fresh a distinctive pineapple note. It has sold very well since being introduced into Ontario from Nova Scotia.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-19-2008, 11:05
Another sad day coming I have heard that Ballantine XXX Ale might be going to be discontiued. So Far I have heard for sure no more in Cans, but do not know about Bottles yet. I am now going to get a spare case as I just Like it. May not be High end but to me it tastes Good!
Dave Z
Beer its Not Just A beverage Its Food
------------------------------------------

dave ziegler
06-19-2008, 12:28
One Beer I drank when I was young I did not like Much was Sunshine Made also In Reading, I mostly Drank it if I got served below age and it was what was on draft! It just was not a very Good Beer from what I remember. Does Anyone Remember the Old Sunny 7 Bottles that had a guys Picture and said Sonny Says? I remember one night Drinking Sunshine and eating a Gino Giant! Good Old Gino's I remember the Song Everyone goes to Gin's cause Gino's is the place to Go Gino Marchette Foot ball great. The Gino's Burger's were way Better then Mac Donalds! The first Burger place we had around me was in Pottstown a Gino's and Gino's Had the .15 cent Burger then and it was delious.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Its Food
--------------------------------------

jesskidden
06-19-2008, 13:25
Another sad day coming I have heard that Ballantine XXX Ale might be going to be discontiued.

That's not the impression that the CEO of Pabst gave in this portion of an interview he gave the magazine "Beverage World" a while back (there's a few factual errrors in his description, but, what they heck- some would have guessed the CEO of Pabst didn't even *know* they sold the ale).

Pabst CEO on Ballantine Ale (http://www.beverageworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&Itemid=127&id=6242)

(Unfortunately, the rest of the interview isn't online, but I have the "hard copy" if anyone's interested. No other Ballantine info, tho').

Pabst recently released, and is putting some promo money behind, the "new/old" Schlitz, so such a "revival" isn't totally out of the question. (The "old" S&P, when Kalmanovitz was still alive, wouldn't have *dreamed* of spending anything on marketing.)

Gillman
06-19-2008, 13:42
They should re-release Ballantine IPA, I'm glad it's on his radar screen at least.

They should line-extend XXX too, make it all-malt, kick up the hops a bit, and market it with its weighty heritage in support. (For this to work, IMO it needs to come out as well in draft. I think it would go great in New York for example in front of illuminated neon signs with the three circles linked, people would love it).

I really think the time is nigh for this.

With A/B possibly changing hands soon, it seems to me the era of the great mass-produced national brands is coming to a close. The market will (already partly has) segment into mass name lights, price beers, retro-appeal beers - and increasingly full-bodied beers with taste.

Can't figure out why it's taking so long, come on Pabst!

Gary

dave ziegler
06-19-2008, 16:25
They should Look at the great sucess that the Poeple who bought the Narragansett Brand are having it is going so good it is now going to be marketed in FL for people from NE that go there in the winter Snow Birds. It is rated the top Macro Lager on the Beer advocat. I have had it and liked it so much I had a friend going up bring me 5 cases down it is I think, been a long time better then the original and I always loved Gansett!
Dave z

Gillman
06-19-2008, 16:42
"Neighbour, have a 'Gansett".

Gary

Gillman
06-19-2008, 16:53
Hey gents, ever hear of Pickwick Ale?

Per Mr. Robertson, it had "intense yeast aroma, soapy taste, [and was] creamy and foamy on the palate". He states it was introduced in the late 1950's and was billed by the company as "the only blend of lager beer, light ale and malt liquor ever canned in the U.S.". (Hmm, sounds like there was a kindred soul at work there in Cranston, RI when I was 5 years old).

'Gansett and Pickwick were okay but actually I was a Haffenreffer man when it came to the Rhode Island beers - and a devotee of Ballantine as earlier mentioned.

Gary

Gillman
06-19-2008, 16:58
Robertson's taste note on Krueger Beer:

"Pale colour, good well-hopped nose, hops sligtly dominate the flavor, medium body, quite a bit of character, sour malt in the middle [adjunct?], light finish. A good beer, better than average".

It sounded good for a low-price beer.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-20-2008, 03:47
Gary Did you ever have Schmidt's Of Philadelphia back in the day? For all People said about it I always liked it and drank it till the end! They were in Bussiness for 127 yrs and only because the Guy who bought it was a mess is what really killed them. Their Tiger Head Ale was Robert Smiths in Ny First, and was a very Nice Ale then, did you ever have Tiger Head. Also their Bock was good. The Brewery was Beautiful in the old days and the big front brew house had a large open Window were you could see the shining tanks on Girard Ave at 2nd. used to pass it and deliver next to it all the time. Would go down 2nd I think and come back 3rd by Ortliebs and on the corner next Ortliebs was a Jewish Bakery that had the best Onion Rye and Corn Rye in the world. Most of those great Bakerys are gone now although I think New Model Bakery sits next to Ortliebs is still there. Nothing like a big fresh slice of Corn Rye with Butter and a Beer of course Schmidt's Then. Ortliebs was a nice beer and when they first bought Kaiers it was good to but they did not make the Kaiers Porter I loved anymore.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Its Food
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jesskidden
06-20-2008, 03:57
They should Look at the great sucess that the Poeple who bought the Narragansett Brand are having

In one of the articles I read back when the new Narragansett company was getting off the ground, they mentioned that they were *leasing* the name from Pabst, so I'd imagine someone over there (in Illinois, now) is probably keeping an eye on it- and it might even be part of the inspiration for the "new" Schlitz.

I was pretty surprised that Schlitz was the brand Pabst picked, since it did NOT have much of a reputation when I started drinking beer (in the late 1960's), unlike a number of brand's they control (like, to beat a dead horse, Ballantine). Schlitz, of course, had national distribution (so there's that advantage) but the first thing that struck me when folks on various beer sites made the example of "Schlitz might be the next 'Gansett-style retro success" is that Schlitz, in many ways, was the beer that first knocked the RI favorite out of the top spot in parts of NE.

Here's some market share stats from Massachusetts (courtesy of the FTC):

1964 Narr. 25.2% Schlitz 5.8% A-B 11.5%
1974 Falstaff 10.4% Schlitz 33.7% A-B 24.4%

Gillman
06-20-2008, 04:35
Small self-correction: in the 1950's Pickwick Ale would have been made in Boston since that was the home of Haffenreffer, it was bought by Narragansett in the 1960's. (And later both of course folded into Falstaff).

I do remember Schlitz quite well, by the time I had it (mid-70's) it was the restored recipe, and I thought it was very good. I can recall a good hoppy character in particular.

I had certainly drunk Schmidt then as well and recall liking it but I would have favored their cream ale mentioned, Tiger Head, and I definitely had that a number of times, I remember the small stubby bottle.

In those years, Canadian ales were quite different from U.S. beers. They still are (e.g. Labatt 50 is quite different to Budweiser, etc.), it's just that now - again I am speaking of the mass market - the taste in Canada is attuned to lager-style beer, so the tastes have converged in many ways.

American Cream Ales also seemed to have a certain common style, kind of perfumed and citric sometimes. There was no Cream Ale then in Canada (so-called anyway) but there is now, e.g., Sleeman Cream Ale which is an excellent beer. Molson Golden Ale, still sold (although I'm not sure if it is an ale today) was the first of the lighter ales moving in a cream ale direction.

I'd like to try the revived old-style beers like Narragansett, I wonder if any attempt was made to duplicate a mid-1900's taste. However they approached it I'd give it a whirl, ditto Schlitz. I think we get a Schlitz malt liquor in Ontario but I tried that once and didn't like it. Of course ML is a separate category.

I used to drink some of these beers (certainly Schlitz, Genessee, Pabst, Matt's, Maximus Super, also Piels) in Plattsburgh and other northern New York State towns in the 70's.

The best though of that time IMO, and most are confirmed in Robertson's honor list which resulted from methodical tastings and ratings, were any Ballantine beer especially IPA, Michelob, Andeker, Prior Double Dark, Tuborg Gold, Augsburger, Yeungling Porter, Stegmaier Porter. There were certain bocks I liked too but I can't recall the names, maybe Genessee's was one. Incidentally Krueger was in his honor roll. So were Horlacher Perfection and Wiedemann but I never tried those.

It would be interesting to try al these today, I know some are still available but I would think the taste has changed since then.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-20-2008, 05:46
Another Beer before my time was Cadinal Beer and also Ruppert Beer back in the Day The Beer that Ruth Loved! I Have an old 1970 Phillies base ball Calender from Ballantine " Base Ball and Ballantine Beer". The Old Connie Mack Stadium had an old score Board from Yankee Stadium It said in big letters Proudly Ballantine Beer! When I started at Kinsey I would jump in my 1963 Chevy and drive down after work get tickets where ever I wanted right behind home Plate sit down get a Foremost Koser Hot Dog .50c a Bottle of ballatine .50c and just enjoy the game they were not a great team but the food, seats and feeling was great. To be able to afford and sit where you want, now only the elite get the good seats. The Beer Guy would yell Cold Beer Hey get your ballantine beer. and the hot dogs came out of a hot steam box and he would use a wooden stick to put on your Mustard. I would love to go back to the Night Dick Allen hit the one over the sign in center and out on to the roofs. I was lucky to be there that night. And my Hero Johnny Calison! I also Liked Roy Seivers at First Base, and Art Mahaffey Pitching!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Its Food
==============================

Jazzhead
06-20-2008, 21:27
I have fond memories of Ortliebs. I first came to Philly for law school in 1979, and a few of us quickly discovered the Ortlieb brewery and would take trips on the El to eat lunch and quaff bodacious suds at the brewery rathskeller, which was at Third and American Streets (and, as Dave says, just a couple of blocks from the far larger Schmidts complex on Girard.) Joe Ortlieb ("Try Joe's Beer") ran the place and he'd sometimes pull a few from behind the bar.

The brewery had only a year or two left of existance. They were trying to promote a dark beer, I'm racking my brain to think of the name of it, but in the end the place expired quietly. The rathskeller was bought a year or two later by a business exec named Pete Souders who played saxophone and wanted a place to jam, and for over 20 years now Ortliebs Jazzhaus has been THE place to hear jazz in the Quaker City. http://ortliebsjazzhaus.com

Much of the original rathskeller remains intact, including the bar and the beer kegs over the front entrance. The place was recently remodelled, which meant the end of several good ol' Orliebs advertising murals and the stuffed water buffalo head. But Third and American has been an institution for both beer and jazz, and there isn't anything more doggone American than that!

jesskidden
06-21-2008, 03:28
I have fond memories of Ortliebs.... They were trying to promote a dark beer, I'm racking my brain to think of the name of it...

Possibly, the incredibly long named "Sean O'Shaughnessy Boarhead Stout"? It was a contempory brew with Ortlieb's malt liquor Coqui, and their version of McSorley's Cream Ale (they bought the label when Rheingold folded- tho' Schmidt's took most of the other old Rheingold labels).

The stout (one of the very few- if not only one- brewed in the US at the time) wasn't very "stout-like". I recall an interview with Joe Ortlieb at the time in which he said that, while inspired by Guinness, it was much lighter because he found Guinness too "heavy". (In Joe's defense, most Guinness in the US at the time was bottled Guinness Extra Stout. The draught in the keg was still a relatively rare here.)

Coqui seemed to be a replacement for Old English 800, which Ortlieb contract-brewed for a while when it was a Blitz-Weinhard brand. Around that time, Pabst had bought B-W and was probably going to brew OE itself in it's regional breweries around the country.

Ortlieb's version of McSorley's was a real nice ale for the time, certainly much hoppier than the typical "cream ale" of the era- I suspect Rheingold used "cream ale" only to ride that small wave of popularity at the time. Altho', according to Micheal Jackson, it was a "bastard ale", typical of a lot of US ales at the time- brewed with lager yeast but at higher temps.


but in the end the place expired quietly.

Yeah, I remember opening the paper one day and reading the article about the closing of the brewery and sale of the labels to Schmidt's. It was something of a shock, since Ortlieb was one of those small indie brewers who was making a lot of noise at the time. I *think* he was the guy who said (paraphrasing):

"I keep hearing how in 20 years there's only going to be 2 breweries left in America, and I keep wondering who the other one is going to be." *

In Joe's defense, in an interview he later said that he regretted his decision to sell as soon as he got done signing his name...

(* Tho' the quote might be from Joe Pickett out of Iowa, who similarly was often the public voice of the small, indie breweries. )

jesskidden
06-21-2008, 04:27
Gary Did you ever have Schmidt's Of Philadelphia back in the day? For all People said about it I always liked it and drank it till the end! They were in Bussiness for 127 yrs and only because the Guy who bought it was a mess is what really killed them. Their Tiger Head Ale was Robert Smiths in Ny First, and was a very Nice Ale then, did you ever have Tiger Head. Also their Bock was good.

---------------------------------------

I never cared much for Schmidt's regular "light lager" beers- in later years I've read that they were somewhat notorious for a very high percentage of adjuncts- but I loved many of the their other brews. Prior Double Dark, of course (especially when it was still a relatively cheap beer in the US style stubby bottles- after the first Michael Jackson Pocket Guide rated it as one of the best beers in the US, they re-packaged it in "fancy" bottles and upped the price incredibly). One could even still find the "Prior Light" (as in color, not "diet") for a time, tho' it has lost most of it's "Czech" heritage by that time, tho' it's possible I never got a really fresh sample.

Schmidt's was one of the last "true ale" brewers, I was surprised to read (again, well after the fact) that they still did open fermenting in wooden vessels for at least some of their ales. The ales were quite different, tho'- many were in the "not very hoppy-cream ale or Canadian Ale" catagory, but a few were well hopped. I was never impressed with the Tiger Head I had, ditto the Duke Ale and their version of Neuweiler Ale (they did brew that former Ortlieb-owned label, for a while or am I mis-remembering that?).

OTOH, their version of McSorley's was great and around the same time they started selling a "Twentieth Century Ale", under the dba of "Adam Scheidt Brewing Company" (original home of the Prior beers) name that was very similiar (if not the same brew) to McSorley's, but, IIRC, even cheaper and in brown bottles, too.

One of the last ale brewers at Schmidt's was Bill Moeller (he'd also brewed at Reading, Horlacher and Ortlieb). Here's a few articles about him.

Brewer Bill Moeller At 80 (http://www.jackcurtin.com/liquiddiet/mabn/moeller.htm)


And a nice visit to Victory by former Schmidt brewers is discussed here. (http://www.victorybeer.com/vv_fall2006.html)


Schmidt's ... Tiger Head Ale was Robert Smiths in Ny First

The Robert Smith Ale Brewing Company was a long time Philadelphia brewery, which traced it's origins back to 1774, and was purchased by C. Schmidt and Sons in the late 1800's. The brewery itself closed at Prohibition, at which time is was considered the oldest brewery in the country. No "NY" connection that I've ever read about.

jesskidden
06-21-2008, 05:21
Another Beer before my time was Cadinal Beer and also Ruppert Beer back in the Day The Beer that Ruth Loved!

Don't recall "Cadinal" (maybe a typo and you mean "Cardinal", which I don't remember either :grin: ) at all- who brewed it?

IIRC, Ruth's era with the Yankees was almost entirely during the Prohibition era. so I've often wondered how much Ruppert Beer he ever got to drink. (Tho', I'm pretty sure they were making "near beer" cereal beverage, so who knows if a guest like Ruppert "employee" Ruth came by, some beer got "spilled" before it made it to the de-alcoholizing process.)

Ruppert was the head of the US Brewers Association during the later years of Prohibition, and appealed to brewers to not release their beers at Midnight on April 7, 1933- to avoid a "carnival atmosphere". He had a somewhat public feud going with August Busch, Jr. at the time over the controversy. (Of course, he wanted breweries to wait 'til 6am Friday morning- not much better as far as "PR" goes, I'd guess. Lots of drunks showing up for work late...).

Ruppert started the post-Repeal era as one of the top brewers (Fortune in '37 had them #4 behind A-B, Schlitz and Pabst) but quickly went downhill, locally eventually passed by Schaefer, Ballantine and Rheingold. 25 years after Repeal, they'd fallen to #16 in 1958 (barely beating out Piel Bros).

They folded in the mid-60's and Rheingold bought the labels and sold the beer (eventually called "Knickerbocker Natural") as a cheapie brand, so I never had "real" Ruppert.

Jazzhead
06-21-2008, 06:47
Sean O'Shaughnessy Boarhead Stout

That's it! I remember them pushing it hard at least at the rathskeller and I for one thought it was pretty good, indistinguishable after all these years in my mind with Yuengling Porter. Ridiculous name though - how can you possibly sound cool ordering that long-winded concoction from the barmaid?

I remember Neuweilers as a Schmidt product, too, although I know the Robertson book lists it as an Ortlieb product. It probably changed hands at one point. I only ever commonly saw the cream ale, and figured it was the same stuff as McSorley's.

Given both what's happened at Yuengling since those days and in the northern Liberties section of Philly, I can see why Joe Ortlieb would have regretted bitterly selling his family legacy. Some of the brewery buildings still stand, and while I miss Joe's beer, I know I would have been poorer but for the swingin' sounds I've dug for 20 years now at Ortlieb's Jazzhaus.

Gillman
06-21-2008, 07:30
I think Yuengling saw far enough ahead, 20 and 30 years ago when microbreweries were looming and quality imports were starting to climb, that they had a future as an independent brewery. They were so "old-fashioned", e.g., through their tasty porter and Lord Chesterfield Ale, that they were in effect aligned with the newbies on the scene; some old independents capitalised on that, F.X. Matt's in Utica is another good example although their persistence was due in part to capitalising on contract brewing for label owners. There are other examples, a couple in the mid-west I know. High Falls (Genessee) in Rochester: yet another example. I would think its Dundee line which is a craft-style approach must sell more now than Genny, or soon will if not the case.

Some of the big city breweries that closed surely could have continued by making similar adjustments to the business model. It is true that they faced in some cases different problems, e.g., competition from big national brewers was more of an issue for them than breweries secreted in distant small towns that remained resistant to big national brands. The very survival of many of the Pennsylvania State small breweries (e.g. Straub's) was due I think to their distance from big city markets and distribution networks. (Is the brewery that made Stoney's and those beers still going, it was called Jones Brewing I think?).

Also, larger city breweries were more attractive to the takeover specialists, the same thing happened in Canada with EP Taylor's Canadian Breweries which took over and closed many local concerns.

And re-investment is more costly for a big brewery.

Anyway, it is a pity so many great breweries failed. Still, the flexibility of the free market has allowed many new ones to start up. There are over 1000 breweries in America today. While we must regret those of the past that closed, the choice today, of quality beer, is better than 30 years ago. Many of the beers we lament were rather indistinguishable one from the other. We recall them partly due to nostalgia, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the beer scene today is much richer than in the 70's, say.

Gary

dave ziegler
06-21-2008, 17:38
Gary Jones Brewing is closed but they are supposed to be having Pittsburg Brewing Contract making Stoneys for them! I am glad you talked about Labatt 50 it was on sale today so I bought a case and I must say it is a nice Ale for the summer! I also like Sam Adams Summer Ale with its citrus Lemon flavor it is an idea ale for summer drinking. I think if I could go back many yeears to try just one Beer I would pick Krueger after what you have read aboout it from your book and the fact it was the first beer to be put in a can! Oh and yes that was a typo it was Cardinal Beer of Virginia!
Dave Z

dave ziegler
06-23-2008, 09:32
This weekend I gave Sam Adams Summer Ale a try and find I llike it very much. Has a sort of Lemon flavor in it and is very Refreshing to drink and in the Mouth. I find most Sam Adams stuff to be good the trouble is they have such high prices for their Beers. I also got a case of Labatt 50 Ale which I find a very nice smooth Summer drink. Its price was much nicer then the Sam but I am amazed at all the differant Beers and Ales Sam Adams makes. Now they make some of them at the old Latrobe Brewery in Pa too!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A beverage Its Food
============================

dave ziegler
06-25-2008, 16:48
Another Brewery gone. Tonight I am drinking one of the last of my Philadelphia Lager Beers. It was a product of Red Bell brewing that had redid an old and famous original Brewery from before prohibition at 31first street and jefferson streets. They went there with the city of Phila telling them they would help them if they fixed the old brewery up! This Lager is wonderful sort of a cross between Ortliebs and Schmidt's I love it well I found out that about some time late last year they went under do to owning to many taxes to the city of Philadelphia! So much for them helping them, maybe they did but then they helped them out of bussiness. You used to be able to get their Phila Lager at Flyers games and they sold it cheaper then the others too! I have about 10 bottles yet then it will be goodbye to this wonderful beer to!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-26-2008, 05:26
Here are a couple of Pictures of the Historic Poth Brewery which Red bell Brewing Had bought, it was one of the last almost complete Brewery town Brewerys it is now going to be torn down by the City of Philadelphia which is typical to build some Junk building in a neighberhood no one wants to go! It is so strong that it was stated it could withstand a Atomic Bomb back it the 1950's Why can't Philadelphia ever learn that in their Historic Buildings is success not new crap like everyone else builds to day. I do not know if it is gone yet or not If anyone living down there knows please let me know I used to go by it all the time when I drove truck back in the early 1990's. I love the rounded wall it was even when empty a beautiful Building.
Dave Z
Good Old Esslinger
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dave ziegler
06-27-2008, 08:32
If there is any member that lives in Phila that can help me I am going to petition the City to make the Old Poth Brewery 31st & Jefferson Ave a Historic Site so they don't tear down this amazing old Brewery which is one of the very last standing ones and was home of the Red Bell brewery till it went out of bussiness owing taxes. If I could get members from Phila to help it would be great I called and asked the Mayors Hictoric group to send me a Petition but don't know how much is involved and want to save this Historic brewery, which had 5 Million spent on it in 1995 and had brewery tours up to the year 2002! If I had money I would buy it and start another brewery but that is imposible They just removed all the new equipment from it on May 27th auction so it should still be fairly intact.Anyone who has any ideas or can help please e mail me. The Brewery operated as Poth Brewing from 1864 till 1936, and the building up till now had been used and is well saveable as 5 million spent on it in 1995. It is really the most complete standing Brewery left in Phila in brewery town section.
Dave Z

jesskidden
06-27-2008, 09:29
If there is any member that lives in Phila that can help me I am going to petition the City to make the Old Poth Brewery 31st & Jefferson Ave a Historic Site so they don't tear down this amazing old Brewery


I take it you're familiar with the Pennslvania Brewery Historians (http://pabreweryhistorians.tripod.com/) group?

They've been active in some attempts at preserving breweries- as noted on the Site Map on their homepage.

dave ziegler
06-27-2008, 10:10
I take it you're familiar with the Pennslvania Brewery Historians (http://pabreweryhistorians.tripod.com/) group?

They've been active in some attempts at preserving breweries- as noted on the Site Map on their homepage.
Thank you for that link I have seen stuff about them but had no E mail I just wrote to Rich and told Him I want to help! Thanks so much for the Help
Jesskidden!
Dave Z
Old Hickory America's Most Magnificent Bourbon
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dave ziegler
06-27-2008, 12:38
Here is a better Picture of the Main brew house of The Poth Brewery!
I plan on taking a trip down and get some pictures of it soon!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
06-29-2008, 15:03
Right now I am drinking one of the nicest smoothest old fashion tasting beers I have had in many a year! Victory Lager by Victory Brewing. It is light smooth and refreshing. It reminds me of the early days I drank beer when Shmidt's and Ortliebs were king it reminds me much of them not compicated by just a beer you can sit and drink one after another! This will become one I will always get it is not cheap but its flavor is wonderful!
And you get what you pay for most times.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Attila
06-29-2008, 20:22
Deadguy Ale from Rogue used to be my favorite American Beer.

These days my favorite American beer is maybe Anchor Porter.

jesskidden
06-30-2008, 03:26
Right now I am drinking one of the nicest smoothest old fashion tasting beers I have had in many a year! Victory Lager by Victory Brewing. It is light smooth and refreshing. It reminds me of the early days I drank beer when Shmidt's and Ortliebs were king...
---------------------------------------------

I haven't had the Victory Lager since the late 1990's (when it first hit the market in NJ). I wasn't too impressed with it at the time- which is a shame because, as a result, I also neglected trying the Prima Pils even tho' HopDevil became my "regular" IPA and I was a big fan of Victory's stout and barleywine. Later, after reading some reviews I tried the Prima and it became my favorite US brewed pilsner (well, it eventually lost that title to Sly Fox Pikeland Pils- [what can I say? I like hops] which lately has been hard to find in NJ).

Since that era, I've read that they've "tweaked" the Victory Lager recipe somewhat and I should give it another try.

Victory also makes a "Pre-Prohibition" lager, Victory Throwback Lager (http://www.victorybeer.com/throwback_lager.html), with corn and they actually use the old Christian Schmidt yeast, as well. Unfortunately, it's a draft-only seasonal beer that's brewed in April (Repeal's anniversary). Haven't yet gotten over to the brewery at the right time to try it.

The "new" Philadelphia Brewing Company (which grew out of the split of the owners of Yards) has a nice light crisp ale (BA's calling it a Kölsch, RB puts it down as a "golden/blonde ale") called Kenzinger Beer (http://philadelphiabrewing.com/brews.htm)
that would well serve the purpose of a local "session" beer. Kinda expensive over here in Jersey (around $10 a sixpack) but on their side of the Delaware, it goes for much less ($25-30 a case).

dave ziegler
07-01-2008, 11:08
I like to think when I was young and most of those Days the One Beer I really Loved was Ballatine I would go to old Connie Mack Stadium get a Ballatine and a Foremost Kosher Hot dog and it was great. I never had a Ballatine Beer I did not like back then. And I still like the Ale even though it is not just like it was then it is nice! I can still see the Beer Guy with his ice box hanging on him saying Hey Get your Cold Beer, and the old Hot dog Vender called Hot Dog Eddie coming around with the steam box full of wonderful Kosher Hot dogs and him putting on Mustard with a wooden stick. Those Were The Days and all for about a buck!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
07-01-2008, 12:47
Another Beer I remember well from the old days was Neuweiler & Neuweiler Cream Al which I have to say I liked very Much. A bunch of our gang them would go get qts of Neuweiler for about .35 each and just sit and talk and drink it! I remeber it was a very nice lager not heavy but light like the bottle said and We would offten drink it then one day we went to get some and they were gone! Even with all the Micro Brewers today I am not sure that they were not the best days of Beer. It was cheap it was good and you could get your favorite here in Pa anywhere beer was sold, not have to look all over for what they now decide they will carry!
Dave Z
beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
07-02-2008, 05:56
Here is a picture of Something I just got for my Work office a 1957 Schmidt's Keystone State Beer Clock have wanted this one for years and finally won one at a good price. It will replace the 1960's one I have now. A beer I am wondering if Gary or any of you had back in the 1970's 80's was the Schmidt's Made Duquesne Brand which they got when Duquesne was gone they also made a Duquesne Bavarian beer same color Can as theirs just said Duquesne instead of Schmidt's!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
==================================

ratcheer
07-03-2008, 17:31
I found a new (to me) beer while at the beach, this past week - Cable Car lager from Lacrosse, WI. I had the perfect American lager flavor like I remember from 30 or more years ago. I recommend it.

Tim

Gillman
07-04-2008, 00:20
Dave, I don't recall Duquesne but I did drink Schmidt's many times including Tiger Head. I liked the light brown stubby bottle and even the kinds of cartons they used to come in. There was a certain taste Schmidt's had, it was excellent light American lager.

Gary

Stu
07-04-2008, 11:01
Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet? You'd have to be an old fart like me to remember because the brewery closed while I was in high school. It was brewed in Terre Haute and that's all my Grandpa and uncles drank. It was the fourth best seller in the USA and Schlitz and Falstaff got together to buy them out and close the brewery. My Dad liked Schlitz - yuk. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but I remember when I was in high school we use to buy a lot of Bud and Michelob. Anything from Anheuser Busch is my last choice now.

ratcheer
07-04-2008, 12:08
Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet?

I remember the advertising, but never had the beer. At 56, I may be to young to have had the opportunity. Who made it?

Tim

dave ziegler
07-04-2008, 12:13
Dave, I don't recall Duquesne but I did drink Schmidt's many times including Tiger Head. I liked the light brown stubby bottle and even the kinds of cartons they used to come in. There was a certain taste Schmidt's had, it was excellent light American lager.

Gary
Gary And yet I have had people say to me that Schmidt's was bad river water beer, which is totally wrong as the brewery at 2nd and Girade had a well that was very deep and the water was all the way up to the top of the well artision I think they call wells like that. Their Light American Lager was as you said Gary a great Beer in fact their old saying One Beautiful Beer somes it up, or their other saying Schmidt's Full Taste Beer! When I was young it was Shmidt's and Old Hickory by Choice! They did have interesting Cartons and bottles and I enjoyed the Tiger Head Ale too!
I used to talk to some of the guys when I would deliver next door and they told me about the wells and we used to laugh at the dumb stuff some people would say. When the Family owned it they were great People to work for and it was a very sad day in 1987 when they closed.
Also thanks for the tip Tim I will look for Cable Car Lager And I do not remmeber Champagne Vevet but will do some looking about it!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Gillman
07-04-2008, 12:22
There are all kinds of stories about water good and bad used by breweries, most not very reliable. Breweries today (and since the 1930's at least) have excellent labs and know how to analyse and adjust water to make it clean and suitable for their needs. Sometimes the water does impact the beer, e.g., there is a sulpher-like taste to beer from Burton-on-Trent in England, not much noticeable in Bass but e.g., in Marston's that might come from the water there. It is a traditional taste by this point, so the brewery doesn't change it (but they could if they wanted). But the water used by Schmidt's had to be good I'm sure.

Gary

dave ziegler
07-04-2008, 13:43
There are all kinds of stories about water good and bad used by breweries, most not very reliable. Breweries today (and since the 1930's at least) have excellent labs and know how to analyse and adjust water to make it clean and suitable for their needs. Sometimes the water does impact the beer, e.g., there is a sulpher-like taste to beer from Burton-on-Trent in England, not much noticeable in Bass but e.g., in Marston's that might come from the water there. It is a traditional taste by this point, so the brewery doesn't change it (but they could if they wanted). But the water used by Schmidt's had to be good I'm sure.

Gary
Speaking of Water we had many wells at Kinsey and they were all treated as the water was used, they distilled it first! They did that right at the Government Building O, right next to our Break room. funny how you think of things so quickly.
Dave Z

jesskidden
07-04-2008, 16:06
Does anyone remember Champagne Velvet? You'd have to be an old fart like me to remember because the brewery closed while I was in high school. It was brewed in Terre Haute and that's all my Grandpa and uncles drank. It was the fourth best seller in the USA and Schlitz and Falstaff got together to buy them out and close the brewery.

Champagne Velvet was made by various brewers up until, at least, the 1980's - as can be noted in this interesting lawsuit by "Champale" (http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/599/599.F2d.857.78-1879.html) over a malt liquor being marketed by Pickett, which was leasing the name from Heileman. The brand went from Drewry's/Associated to Heileman to Pickett and was later revived by a microbrewery/brewpub also called Terre Haute Brewing Company (http://www.cvbeer.com/History/history.php) (now closed).

Don't know when the beer would have been "the fourth best seller in the USA"- no figures I have for the brand or brewery suggest anything like that but I've noted a lot of such claims for this beer and the brewery on the 'net. I suppose that most of it comes from the "facts" printed on the above "reborn" brewery's site, which, again, don't jibe with most printed reference material. A list of the top 16 breweries in 1895 from the Brewers Guide doesn't show Terre Haute listed (while the website claims it was #7 in '92).

A list of the top 22 breweries in 1958 doesn't list Terre Haute either, even tho' the website claims a production of 1.5 million barrels. (Coincidentally -or, maybe not- Drewry's sales at the time WERE 1.5m bbl., and Drewery's evolved into Associated after a merger with others breweries.) The capacity for the TH brewery in 1957 is listed at 202,000 bbl and, in 1954, ALL of Indiana's breweries only produced 2.3 million bbl of beer (including the production of large breweries like Drewery's in South Bend, Cook in Evansville and Old Crown and Falstaff in Ft. Wayne).

Terre Haute Brewing Co. was bought by Atlantic Brewing out of Chicago in 1958 and closed the following year. (No connection to Schlitz or Falstaff.)

dave ziegler
07-04-2008, 16:07
From what I have just read Champagn Velvet was later brewed by Picket Brewing in IN. Never had it but it must have been a good name for Picket to keep the brand going later on! One of my old Favorites Long gone was Kaiers Special Beer made in Mahanoy City Pa. It was a very good lager and won a belguin Medal for its flavor. Used to wait till after church when I was up state and about 11:00 Am knock on the back door of a bar up there and a hand with a brown bag would come out you would put some cash it the hand and in the bag were some little 7 oz Bottles of Kaiers.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Stu
07-04-2008, 20:57
OK, so it was seventh, not fourth. I remember when TH brewing revised the brand. I've still got family in Terre Haute and I go there once or twice a year. The whole town (at least the beer drinkers) was upset when they sold the microbrewery to an Indianapolis brewery who discontinued CV. I had some while the microbrewery was still making CV and I enjoyed it, but as I said, I'm not a big beer man.

jesskidden
07-05-2008, 05:44
OK, so it was seventh, not fourth.

Well, no...


A list of the top 16 breweries in 1895 from the Brewers Guide doesn't show Terre Haute listed (while the website claims it was #7 in '92).



As I noted, I've been reading these claims for "Champagne Velvet" and the Terre Haute Brewing Co. on the 'net for awhile (not trying to pick on your specific claim- only suggest that there's incorrect info out there), and they just don't seem to agree with the written records from the era.

The massive reference book "100 Years of Brewing" published in 1903 notes that when THBC was incorporated in 1889 (not the erroneous claim of "THBCo is the second oldest active brewery in United States (est. 1837)" (http://www.cvbeer.com/History/history.php)) it had a capacity of about 30,000 bbl. a year- to have become #7 by 1892, they'd have had to increase 10 fold in 4 years (Blatz, with 400-350,000 bbl was #7 in 1895). The only output figures I've found for THBC in the early 1890's has them in the 30-60,000 bbl. range.

The production of ALL the breweries in Indiana was 570,000 in 1892 (when the website claims it was #7 in the US), which would mean that THBC would have had to brew more than all the other 47 or so breweries in the state combined. Just doesn't add up to me. :grin:

It's not unusual for brewers to make claims that stretch the truth, of course (see: "Miller Lite- A Fine Pilsner Beer") and I notice that many of these "reborn" brands are particularly prone to it. (Here's a article (http://www.inc.com/magazine/20040701/yuengling_pagen_5.html) in which Jim Koch claims- or at least lets a reporter *think* - that his "Boston Beer Company" is somehow a continuation of the original, thus making his company older than Yuengling. "Boston Beer Co. started brewing a year earlier, in 1828, but took a brief hiatus in the 1970s before Koch purchased it in 1984.") I don't know, can a brewery like Terre Haute that simply uses the same name as one that closed in 1959 really be "the second oldest"?

(Oh, yeah- as far as being the "first to date code beer in 1940"- a number of brewers dated their beer- Lucky Lager, for one, were "age dated" on their labels - here's one from 1935 (http://www.usbeerstuff.com/irtp/gen3.jpg)).

dave ziegler
07-09-2008, 06:22
Today I have been thinking about some of the Old Coal region Beers made in Pa, Brands Like
1. Columbia,and Senator's Club & Whitman & Lord brewed by Columbia brewing in Shenandoah Pa
2. Old Dutch Brewed by Eagle Brewing in Catasauqua Pa Not coal region
3. The Ones I have had such as F&S--Fuhrmann & Schmidt brewed in Shamokin Pa
4. Kaier's One of my favorites back then Brewed in Mahanoy City
5. And around here Right in Boyertown before I was old enough to know of Beer Boyertown Pilsner & Lager I work in Boyertown!
We had so many and they are for the most part all gone now but the memory of how good they were lives on! Kaiers got a star of Excellence at a Brussels Beer Contest Back in the day!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
07-11-2008, 08:57
Another beer I wondered about but never got to drink was Gunther Brewed by Gunther Brewing Baltimore MD. Wondering how good it was? Also Senate Beer & Old Georgetown beer by Christian Heurich Brewing in DC which used to be right on Penna Ave down the road from the White House where the Kenndy center is now? They had a picture of the White House and the brewery on the Old Georgetown Beer Can which I have one.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A beverage Beer Is Food
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marco246
07-11-2008, 11:23
My favorite American beer is Anchor Steam, although I am not serious enough about beer (only drink one or two daily) to bother to acquire this particular one. My wife occasionally gets me a 6-pack for a special occasion. Usually I just pick up whatever COSTCO has that looks interesting. Monday I bought a case of Sam Adams (mixed summer selection), one of Pyramid wheat beer, and one of Newcastle Brown Ale.

I discovered Yuengling while at Carlisle Barracks, PA, in the 90s, and then rediscovered it last week in Florida during a family reunion. This was the Balck and Tan, and it was tasty. I am told Yeungling now has a brewery in Florida.

As a college student in the '60s I swilled vast amounts of Wiedemann's. My philosophy then, as now, is that beer is only with us for a little while, and it's all good.

Cheers!

jesskidden
07-11-2008, 15:40
Another beer I wondered about but never got to drink was Gunther Brewed by Gunther Brewing Baltimore MD. Wondering how good it was?

Gunther must have been a pretty popular beer in Baltimore at one time - most folks usually just remember the National brands (Bohemian and Premium) and the Carling beers but both of the large regionals that bought the Gunther brewery (Hamm in the late 50's and then Schaefer a few years later when Hamm left the East Coast market and sold the brewery to the Brooklyn brewer) continued to make and market Gunther.

In fact (according to the Brewers Digest Annual Guides- 1979, 1980), Schaefer continued to brew it in their Allentown, PA facility that they built in the early 1970's(which just re-opened as the "new" Boston Beer Co.'s largest brewery) after they closed the old Gunther Brewery in MD in '78. The brand seems to have disappeared only after Stroh purchased Schaefer.

Gillman
07-12-2008, 07:40
Recently in Providence, RI at the bar of a restaurant, Local 121 which is linked in ownership to the excellent Trrnity brewpub, I had a glass of the restored Narragansett lager and thought it was superb. An evident attempt has been made to replicate the original recipe because while the beer has a good malty base it has I believe a touch of adjunct as well which made the beer true to style and refreshing. There was a very nice hop undertone, possible Perle or a similar hop and an interesting backgound taste from the yeast (creamy-like). A fine revival that should do great in the market. I've seen cans and bottles too but haven't tried them as yet. There is also a bock and porter.

The taste of this really did bring back memories of the best of the 1950'-70's beers that we've been discussing here.

Gary

dave ziegler
07-13-2008, 08:58
Gary of all the beers I have tired in the Last few years I find the New Narragansett to be as you said superb, and very refreshing to drink. It does have a sort of style of the old stuff. I liked it so much when a friend went to CT I had him bring me 5 cases back. It is rated A on the Beer Advocat and I can see why it is doing so well it is a terrific Beer!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
07-14-2008, 15:38
I am sitting here drinking the Last Philadelphia Lager I ever will as Red Bell went out of Bussiness and the Historic Brewery is closed again. Such a shame after being used for 58 years as a Leisure equipment plant it became a brewery again after 59 years. Sadly the owner built to many small brew pubs and lost track of his tax bills a ran out of money and it was too late. However there is one good thing I have now found out a Builder who restores old Brewery town Brewery's into town houses has bought it so hopefully the Old Poth Brewery which was built in 1864 will continue to exsist! I have put a picture of it up back farther on this thread. The Beer is a very nice typical Phila lager beer refreshing mild delightful and it will be missed. There is one brewery left in Phila the Philadelphia Brewery also in an Historic Old Brewery maker of many Micro brands and of Kenzinger a beer named in tribute of Kensington where it stands and Esslinger a great old Phila Beer!
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
Dave Z
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jesskidden
07-15-2008, 04:02
There is one brewery left in Phila the Philadelphia Brewery also in an Historic Old Brewery maker of many Micro brands and of Kenzinger a beer named in tribute of Kensington where it stands


Well, don't forget that Yards is about to come back to production (currently some of their beers are being contracted out to The Lion- tho' I don't seem 'em in NJ). The owners of Yards split up, two of them (Bill and Nancy Barton) keeping the building and creating the Philadelphia Brewing Company (http://philadelphiabrewing.com/), and one of the original founders, Tom Kehoe, moving on to build the new Yards Brewing Company (http://www.yardsbrewing.com/) facility.

And, Philly's got a few good brewpubs (tho', for such a great beer town, the number is amazingly small) with the former owners of NJ's late Heavyweight Brewing Co. about to open one - Earth Bread + Brewery (http://earthbreadbrewery.com/)

dave ziegler
07-15-2008, 05:45
Here are two pictures of my 1939 Full bottle of Poths Old German Beer, I have also kept one full bottle of Red Bell- Philadelphia Lager since they both were brewed in the same Brewery in Phila! I also kept the last case with all its bottles with Original caps same ones off twist Bottles made by someone else will make a nice displace and will only get better as it gets older like all the things from the past. I also made a Picture of the brewery to keep with the stuff! Thanks to Jeeskidding for the great news about Yards coming back there will be some good beer coming from there. And I'm glad that Philadelphia Brewing is still in its old Brewery making Kenzinger Beer and all their others! It is a shame someone did not buy the Poth brewery with all the new equipment in it and reopen it again instead of it all being auctioned 2 months ago but at least it is going to be saved from the wrecking ball. The times are to slow right now in Better times most likely someone would have bought it ready to go! I wonder How Poth Beers tasted I am willing to bet very good as the Old german name has belonged to many breweries through the years the name now belonging to Pittsburg Brewing! One last thing I do not drink Budweiser but I do not like IN Bev buying it they can no longer call in the great american Lager as In bev will now own it. I am tired of everything owned here being sold with no cares about the People who worked and made the companies great as in general out of country owners could care less how many years someone has given to doing a good job you are just supposed to go on which is very hard when you are older, I know that deal very Well!
Dave Z
Beer Its not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Gillman
07-15-2008, 06:44
I found further information from the website of the revived Narragansett.

The beer is made at High Falls (formerly Gennesse in Rochester) under contract for the marketer. This is stated on the site and all credit to the marketer for being upfront on that, but the authenticity I noted in the taste comes from the fact clearly that the original yeast strain is being used and the beer is brewed under supervision of the last brewmaster to work at the Cranston facility before it was closed (circa-'82). This gentleman started with the original Narragansett in 1952! What a stroke of luck since with the passing of time, it is hard sometimes to recreate something from 50 years ago. This person must be around 80 I'd guess now and it is great that he worked on the beer, the results really show.

The body is quite heavy for an American international lager style, corn is the adjunct and the IBU rate is quite low (12 I think) but the results are a delicious, traditional-tasting American beer. The corn lends just that crisp touch which is refreshing. A Harpoon IPA tasted the next day seemed syrupy in comparison but actually I enjoyed both beers, they are just different. The key is both are brewed to the peak of what their style represents.

So here we have a link between the old and new operations in the form of a person who worked for the old one and knew intimately the product. Even though things change with time (old companies close or are sold like e.g., A-B), this link has IMO enabled the Narragansett of today to be as good as it was in its heyday or better if possible.

Gary

dave ziegler
07-15-2008, 08:54
I found further information from the website of the revived Narragansett.

The beer is made at High Falls (formerly Gennesse in Rochester) under contract for the marketer. This is stated on the site and all credit to the marketer for being upfront on that, but the authenticity I noted in the taste comes from the fact clearly that the original yeast strain is being used and the beer is brewed under supervision of the last brewmaster to work at the Cranston facility before it was closed (circa-'82). This gentleman started with the original Narragansett in 1952! What a stroke of luck since with the passing of time, it is hard sometimes to recreate something from 50 years ago. This person must be around 80 I'd guess now and it is great that he worked on the beer, the results really show.

The body is quite heavy for an American international lager style, corn is the adjunct and the IBU rate is quite low (12 I think) but the results are a delicious, traditional-tasting American beer. The corn lends just that crisp touch which is refreshing. A Harpoon IPA tasted the next day seemed syrupy in comparison but actually I enjoyed both beers, they are just different. The key is both are brewed to the peak of what their style represents.

So here we have a link between the old and new operations in the form of a person who worked for the old one and knew intimately the product. Even though things change with time (old companies close or are sold like e.g., A-B), this link has IMO enabled the Narragansett of today to be as good as it was in its heyday or better if possible.

Gary
Thanks Gary That is great No wonder it is so darn Good! I love the stuff and wish it was easier to get here in pa, But as long as I have good friends going up I will be able to get it and enjoy it! That also shows the Value of an older person who knows what it should be like and creates it that way. Three Cheers to the Owners of Naaragansett for taking that Important step no wonder it is selling so well! Our Own Reading Premium Beer is starting to take off now it is going so good they are having High falls now put it in cans for them. And The Loin is still doing bottles for them till things get good enough that they can do what their dream is and build their Own Large Brewery to have besides their Micro Brewery in Reading! If you can ever get some Gary try it! They have done the same thing as far as Cans and bottles using the past to help the future with the retro design. They also are friends with some of the old reading Brewing people brewmasters ect and I would not be surprised it they did not get some help there. If you want to see there site it is Under Reading brewing or Reading Premium Beer. Or Under Legacy brewing.
Narragansett has become again one of My very Favorite Beers and I Highly recomend any one Reading this to give it a try. Again Gary Thanks for your Insight into all these things you always find the Best things! Also if you go on the Reading Beer site they tell about the history and why they bought the Name back and started it again. I talk to them on the Phone every couple weeks just talked to one of the owners the other day told him I like the Canned Reading from High falls and agreed the draft they do there, bottled and Caned are so close it is almost impossible to tell the differance. Gary Just found the web site it is www.readingbeer.com (http://www.readingbeer.com)


Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
07-15-2008, 10:45
Thanks Gary That is great No wonder it is so darn Good! I love the stuff and wish it was easier to get here in pa, But as long as I have good friends going up I will be able to get it and enjoy it! That also shows the Value of an older person who knows what it should be like and creates it that way. Three Cheers to the Owners of Naaragansett for taking that Important step no wonder it is selling so well! Our Own Reading Premium Beer is starting to take off now it is going so good they are having High falls now put it in cans for them. And The Loin is still doing bottles for them till things get good enough that they can do what their dream is and build their Own Large Brewery to have besides their Micro Brewery in Reading! If you can ever get some Gary try it! They have done the same thing as far as Cans and bottles using the past to help the future with the retro design. They also are friends with some of the old reading Brewing people brewmasters ect and I would not be surprised it they did not get some help there. If you want to see there site it is Under Reading brewing or Reading Premium Beer. Or Under Legacy brewing.
Narragansett has become again one of My very Favorite Beers and I Highly recomend any one Reading this to give it a try. Again Gary Thanks for your Insight into all these things you always find the Best things! Also if you go on the Reading Beer site they tell about the history and why they bought the Name back and started it again. I talk to them on the Phone every couple weeks just talked to one of the owners the other day told him I like the Canned Reading from High falls and agreed the draft they do there, bottled and Caned are so close it is almost impossible to tell the differance. Gary Just found the web site it is www.readingbeer.com (http://www.readingbeer.com)


Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
===================================
I am about to ask a question and Hope someone will give me the answer, What was the Oldest Beer ever drank safely that was good and was it in a can or Bottle? I have wondered this for years. I'm Thinking Maybe Gary will know but all answers are most welcome.
Dave Z
Beer Its More Then Just A Beveraga beer Is Food
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BourbonJoe
07-15-2008, 10:50
Dave,
I would have to think it was Yuengling since it is America's oldest brewery.
Joe :usflag:

dave ziegler
07-15-2008, 10:55
I am about to ask a question and Hope someone will give me the answer, What was the Oldest Beer ever drank safely that was good and was it in a can or Bottle? I have wondered this for years. I'm Thinking Maybe Gary will know but all answers are most welcome.
Dave Z
Beer Its More Then Just A Beveraga beer Is Food
====================================
I think I have just by pure luck found the oldest one. In Oct 12 1999 a diver found I think it said 8 pint snap top bottles that were 105 yrs old. per the date of the ship sinking. One of them the cap poped loose so he tried it and ended up drinking the whole bottle! It was found at Loch Shiel off the Coast of Wales, he said it was a bit stale and very Hoppy but tasted pretty good! I would like also to know what the longest possible time a Beer can keep if you keep it out of light in a cool Basement or place like that!
Dave Z

dave ziegler
07-18-2008, 09:45
I am hoping that either Gary or someone else can shed some light on Poth Beer Brewed in Phila. I am very interested in them as not only do I have an old full bottle from 1939 and a full bottle of Phila Lager Made in the same Building over 56 yrs later, but I have read alot about Fred A Poth being a very good person and making many beers and that his Brewery was one of the first if not the first to have refridgeration! I wonder Gary if you read this does your Book say anything About Poth beer or Ale? And anyone esle who knows anything about Poth. To my amazement I not only delivered near the Building but I actually went in the Building to deliver some times. In speaking to a man named Rich Wagner a Phila Beer Historian he told me that there was a lesuire Equipment builder in there till Red Bell bought it after they went out of Bussiness. Then it hit me the name was Wallace Lesiure Equipment they made Chairs and all sorts of things and I went there many times delivering but never relized it had been the Poth Brewery till I started to Drink Red Bell Beers. I can see why they said It could stand after a atom Bomb hit it the walls were over two foot thick when I walked in there one time delivering. I am very Hopeful that it will be spared by the people who bought it now. westrum Development they have spared other old Historic Brewerys making them into condos and Lofts and Offices and saving all the original structure.The sad part is that in 1995 it had become the Largest Micro Brewery there was and could crank out 30,000 Barrels a year and their Beers were great Phila Lager, Black cherry Stout. and many more. Very sad to see all the Stuff taken out at auction in May and it most likely never being a Brewery again after coming back 58 years to being a brewey and having had 5 Million spent on the place and having state of the art equipment. Just as Mr Poth had made it state of the art in the old days!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Gillman
07-18-2008, 10:47
Dave, Poth does not ring a bell but I'll check in Robertson's book tonight.

There was a stash of beers discovered in a Victorian vault last year from around the 1870's. Some were tasted and taste notes are available online.

That is an interesting taste note, on the beer from the sunken ship. Stale I can understand, and high hops rates would have characterised many (not all) beers at the time, especially those being shipped by sea.

Gary

dave ziegler
07-18-2008, 11:34
Gary I will look forward to what you can find out in the book about F.A.Poth. Looking at my American Brewers Historic Collection Poth can made by Huber Brewing The Frederick August Poth Brewery in Phila was it states on the can was one of the most inovative of its time having refrigeration and other brewing inventions. It says He came to America in 1861 and by 1865 had opened the first parts of his brewery expanding as the years went by Building the newest part in 1895 due to rapid growth in his bussiness. It must have been some good beer. Came back after Prohibition ended and went till sometime near the late 1940's. Thats about all I have found hope you find some good stuff on it and I thank you-BE Well
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Gillman
07-18-2008, 13:19
It's not in my Robertson, Dave, but a reference to Poth is found in American Breweries by Donald Bull, Manfred Friedrich and Robert Gottschalk, which is a list as of 1984 of all American breweries and their years of operation. Poth is listed as being in business at different addresses from 1865 until 1936. It appears to have been at 31st and Jefferson and before that at 3rd and Green in Philadelphia. Its last name was Poth Brewing Co., Inc. Until 1920 it was F.A. Poth & Sons. Probably the business became incorporated after Prohibition.

Gary

Gillman
07-18-2008, 13:32
Actually by checking the brand name Old German, I think I know what happened to the brand. In Robertson's book, he shows a picture of a label for Old German Brand beer. The script of the Old German name (the typeface I mean) is a Germanic style that is almost identical to what appears on your bottle from 1939. And on the side of the Old German label in Robertson's (1970's-era) book, it states, Yeungling. So clearly Yeungling bought the trade mark, either directly or indirectly from Poth Brewing Co. By 1939, your beer possibly was made by Yeungling. Or maybe it was from the last stocks made by Poth Brewing which closed in 1936 according to the other book I mentioned. Or another Philly brewer bought Poth's beer names in 1936 and made what you have and that brewer later sold the name to Yeungling or an assignee of the former of the Old German name did so. Hey I thought I was off work! :)

Gary

dave ziegler
07-19-2008, 03:23
Thanks for the help Gary very interesting, here are two pictures of other Poth stuff
1. A old Poth Ale can 1936
2. An old Poth Pilsner Bottle 1936
Wish I had these in my collection got the pictures on the web a long while back Their Cans are very rare
Bet it was a good Beer!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer is Food
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jesskidden
07-19-2008, 05:11
Actually by checking the brand name Old German, I think I know what happened to the brand. In Robertson's book, he shows a picture of a label for Old German Brand beer. :)



Yeah, Yuengling was still brewing and marketing an "Old German" into the 1980's, IIRC. It was their "cheap beer", along with the "Bavarian" label they bought when Mount Carbon folded. As I recall it, Old German had a much broader distribution area that Bavarian (which may have been very local and in returnables, only)- pretty sure Old German in throw-aways was found in NJ. I'd say it lasted longer than Bavarian, as well. (I've got a series of Yuengling booklets from the 70's-90's and the brand appears and disappears). Of course, nowadays the old "Yuengling Beer" is their "cheap brand", "Yuengling Traditional Lager" replacing it as the "flagship" brand.

But the brand name "Old German" was used by many US breweries- a quick look and one finds it from well-known "cheap beer" breweries like Hammonton's Eastern, Maier in LA, Peter Hand in Chicago, and Queen City in Cumberland, MD. Other PA brewers like Lebanon Valley and Pittsburgh also brewed and marketed "Old German" branded beer. PIttsburgh's obviously came from their purchase of the brands of Queen City and, from what I understand, is still available in MD and western PA.

jesskidden
07-19-2008, 05:30
I am hoping that either Gary or someone else can shed some light on Poth Beer Brewed in Phila.

The Poth brewery is featured in the great reference book "100 Years of Brewing" (first published in 1903, reprinted in the 1970's)- including it's history (up to '03, of course) and two nice drawings of the brewery, one circa 1875, and then a "modern" 1903 one. According to the entry, the 31st and Jefferson brewery was purchased from the Bentz and Reilly firm in 1870. At the time the book was written, they had sales of 180,000 barrels.

In 1877, with production of about 14,000 barrels, they were one of about 16 Philly breweries that brewed over 12,000 bbl., bigger than better known names of Schmidt and Roger Smith, but outsold by Philly giants like Bergner and Engel (#3 in the US at the time) and Massey.

(I'd offer to scan the pics and entry, but my scanner's been fried. I'm sure those guys in the Philadelphia brewery history group have copies of the book. I've got two myself.)

Also, Poth ran an across-the-river Camden, NJ brewery for about a decade before Prohibition- it re-opened as the "Camden County Brewing Company (http://www.dvrbs.com/beer/CamdenBeer.htm)" after Repeal, with no Poth connection. They had a, um, "colorful" history during Prohibition.

jesskidden
07-19-2008, 06:10
There was a stash of beers discovered in a Victorian vault last year from around the 1870's. Some were tasted and taste notes are available online.

That is an interesting taste note, on the beer from the sunken ship. Stale I can understand, and high hops rates would have characterised many (not all) beers at the time, especially those being shipped by sea.

Gary

There was a "stash" found in the UK a few years back, description can be found at the Worthington White Shield (http://www.worthingtonswhiteshield.com/oldest_beer.html) website (you'll probably first have to give your birthdate). White Shield, in this global age of brewing, is owned by Coors. As Gary notes, there are a number of articles (like this one (http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=341280&sid=FTP)) on the tastings.

The "shipwreck" salvaged beer story sound similar to the origins of the current "Flag Porter" (http://www.legendslimited.com/flag.html).

HipFlask
07-19-2008, 21:53
I almost mentioned Augsburger, but I thought I had rambled on enough. Stevens Point Brewery licensed the rights to it and is making it again (just not the bock, which, while not a real bock, was a really nice dark lager). It was originally made by Jos. Huber in Monroe, Wisconsin, and was sold to Stroh in around 1987 or 1988.

The Point People claim to be making it to the original recipe.

OK, I can google press released for Point brewing Augsburger from 2003, and I saw it at the brewery in 2006, but there's nothing on their site.

What's worse, I found a cached reference in their faq from April 1st (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:sWHUOsBeQdUJ:www.pointbeer.com/brewmaster_faq.php+augsburger+point&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us), but it's no longer there (http://www.pointbeer.com/brewmaster_faq.php).

I'll write to find out.

Augsburger you are bring back memories of high school I was fortunate to turn 18 and still be in school and the drinking age was 18. I was a popular guy as I could buy the beer and whiskey. I loved ans still do seek out any new and differnt beers I can. Augsberger was one such beer and a I drink quite a bit of it. Jos Huber Brewing Co. Monroe, WI. It's funny that Point beer was nasty but cheap auquired the name of such a fine beer. Any body else drink MeisterBrau?

dave ziegler
07-20-2008, 08:04
Actually by checking the brand name Old German, I think I know what happened to the brand. In Robertson's book, he shows a picture of a label for Old German Brand beer. The script of the Old German name (the typeface I mean) is a Germanic style that is almost identical to what appears on your bottle from 1939. And on the side of the Old German label in Robertson's (1970's-era) book, it states, Yeungling. So clearly Yeungling bought the trade mark, either directly or indirectly from Poth Brewing Co. By 1939, your beer possibly was made by Yeungling. Or maybe it was from the last stocks made by Poth Brewing which closed in 1936 according to the other book I mentioned. Or another Philly brewer bought Poth's beer names in 1936 and made what you have and that brewer later sold the name to Yeungling or an assignee of the former of the Old German name did so. Hey I thought I was off work! :)

Gary
Gary Great news I just bought Robersons Book you have on E Bay for $2.25 paper back. It will be a wonderful thing to have I am sure and it has been with your help so many times. These History things as you know really are enjoyable for me. I was just reading something on the web yesterday about Gretz beer the brand stayed around longer then I thought as Ruppert Was the Last to make it after Esslinger went under. I had thought that Esslinger was the last to make Gretz. I have such fond memories of the old motor powered Sign with the man riding the high wheel bike and the bucket of Beer swinging on the handle bars and the dog running beside him. The sign was giant and was at the corner of Board & Chew Street in Phila I wonder if any of the members from this area remember it too? In my mind I can picture myself in the Back of my Dads 1953 Chevy the first time I saw it then the next time in his used 1955 Caddy Coupe De vile!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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Dave Z

dave ziegler
07-20-2008, 15:09
When I was at the large Flee Market yesterday I bought some Vintage Kinsey and Continental Distilling Labels but I also bought this Poth Beer Label below it is not from their 31st and Jefferson St Brewery but their one at 10th Street which also still stands it is owned By Temple University and they converted the Building into Dorms which saved it from being torn down!

dave ziegler
07-21-2008, 04:05
This morning I am thinking about Jones Brewing maker of Fort Pitt, Old Shay Golden Cream Ale, Stoneys and Esquire Premium Beer. Sadly the name goes on but the brewery is now closed about a year or two now. I used to love Fort Pitt always picked some up when way up state Pa. From what I have heard they are having Pittsburg Brewing make Stoneys for them but I have yet to find any. The brewery from what I have read is still there in tack. Another old Brewer gone the way of high cost and big Brewerys!
Dave Z
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dave ziegler
07-21-2008, 16:00
Jesskidden this one's for you took some pictures of my Champagne Velvet Cone Beer Can thought you would enjoy these pictures of it! Never had any but would figuer it was a good Beer! Enjoy
Dave Z
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jesskidden
07-22-2008, 04:34
Jesskidden this one's for you took some pictures of my Champagne Velvet Cone Beer Can thought you would enjoy these pictures of it!

Thanks for the photo of "CV". Growing up in the northeast, I don't have a lot of knowledge or nostalgia for the great mid-West brands, of course, but Champagne Velvet also get a "asterisk" as being a brand immortalized by the great Bluesman, Howlin' Wolf. Wolf did a song (back before he moved to Chicago and recorded at Chess) at Sun Studios called "CV Blues" (in some cases, it's listed as "Champagne Velvet Blues" even tho' that name isn't used in the lyrics).

Now, here's where things get confused. A lot of those early Memphis recordings by the Wolf were long out of print in the US and eventually they started appearing on imported records, and somewhere along the way, some companies started calling it "CV WINE Blues" "- "Drinkin' CV Wine", etc.,in part, I guess, 'cause they were confused that a beer would have the word "Champagne" in it. Do a search for the lyrics, and lots of them are just wrong.

For one thing, in the US one did not order a "bottle" of wine in a bar, and the lyrics clearly are "Come here bartender, bring me a bottle of C.V.".

Champagne Velvet Beer was a big local beer in Memphis- I believe that Dewey Phillips (the first DJ to play an Elvis Presley record) did ads for Champagne Velvet on his famous Memphis radio show, for instance.

------------

I was listening to Howlin' Wolf one night in the 1980's when I was rushing to the bar after work. It was in NY state, and the local bars stopped serving at 1am, and I got out of work at 12:45am, so I'd buy 6 bottles as soon as I'd arrive and slowly drink them for an hour or so.

"Gimme six CV's!" I shouted over the juke box. Bartender looked puzzled, shook his head no.

"No? It's not 1am, yet!"

"What's CV?"

D*mn! I ordered the wrong beer! I wanted six OV's- the nickname for the Canadian beer Old Vienna, which came in 7 oz. clear bottles and sold for 3 for $1.

dave ziegler
07-22-2008, 05:57
Heres a blast from the Past coming Back. Highlander beer which was last made 40 yrs ago is returning as a Micro Brew as a Red Scottish Ale! Here is the web page
http://ifitaintscottish.com
Highlander was made back in the day by Missoula Brewing in Missoula Montanna. I think this is great seeing all these old Brands coming back- IE - Reading, Narragansett and Now Highlander. Hopefully it will be a great beer! If any members live out that way let us know what it is like!
Dave Z
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jesskidden
07-22-2008, 06:52
I think this is great seeing all these old Brands coming back- IE - Reading, Narragansett and Now Highlander. -

I keep meaning to make up a complete list, but of all the old brands that have been "revived" in "craft beer era", as contract brews or new brands from craft breweries, the "succeeded (so far)" list is not as long as the "failed" one.

Off hand, I can think of these that fall into the latter category:

Rhiengold (several attempts, actually)
Pickwick Ale (Harpoon)
Champagne Velvet
Frank Jones Ale (again, bounced around)
Weidemeyer (still available, but doesn't seem to be doing much)
Lemp
Olde Heurich
Augsburger (most reports have Stevens Point no longer brewing it)
Ortlieb
Neuweiler


I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of them.

dave ziegler
07-24-2008, 04:05
Here is a beer I never heard of or drank from Chicago 9-0-5 Beer brewed by 9-0-5 Brewing Chicago IL. Picked it up for my collection at the flee market I got my Vinage Bottle of Whiskey at. Just has a big 9-0-5 on the Can! Anyone know anything about this one?
Beer Its more Than Just A beverage beer Is Food
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jesskidden
07-24-2008, 05:15
Here is a beer I never heard of or drank from Chicago 9-0-5 Beer brewed by 9-0-5 Brewing Chicago IL. Just has a big 9-0-5 on the Can! Anyone know anything about this one?


I believe "905" was a big liquor store chain in the Chicago area (maybe still around?), so it was simply a private label store brand. Bounced around for years - don't know which Chicago brewery brewed it, but it was also made later by Associated and Heileman IIRC.

shyster512
07-26-2008, 17:38
Anyone familiar with Grainbelt or Grain Belt beer? My son moved to Minnesota recently and said he liked this beer and the price was very reasonable. Anyone know it?

jesskidden
07-28-2008, 03:29
Anyone familiar with Grainbelt or Grain Belt beer? My son moved to Minnesota recently and said he liked this beer and the price was very reasonable. Anyone know it?

The Schell Brewery took over the famous Grain Belt label after the failure of the Heileman spin-off Minnesota Brewing Co. There's a very good "history" of the label on the Schell's website for Grain Belt Premium (http://www.grainbelt.com/). (Written by a historian of MN breweries.) As noted, the original Grain Belt brewery, Minneapolis Brewing Co., was bought and closed by the infamous Irwin Jacobs, who was also involved in the long battle between Heileman and General-Falstaff-Pearl's equally infamous Paul Kalmanovitz over Pabst in the 1980's.

Certainly, from all indications, one example of a successful beer brand being brought back from near dead. They seem to imply (last page of the "History" (http://www.grainbelt.com/history_gb8.php)) that the older, heavier "Golden Grain Belt" was brewed for a time but "phased out" and now it's only "Grain Belt Premium" and a light version.

shyster512
07-28-2008, 19:17
Thanks Jess. Have you tried it? If so, what do you think about it?

jesskidden
07-29-2008, 03:29
Thanks Jess. Have you tried it? If so, what do you think about it?

Haven't had the current Schell's brewed version. Last time I was in the area (spent a month at our sister plant in St. Paul) Grain Belt was still just another Heileman cheapie brands. I don't even remember if I had one- I do remember the giant Grain Belt sign (http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc19974.php), tho' (and thinking, "Man, they should do something with "free" advertising like that." Of course, I said that when I saw the "restored" Jax Brewery in NOLA, and no one's revived that one yet. I guess it's a Pabst owned label, since Pearl bought the label after the brewery's demise.)

Anyway, I remember lots of Leinenkugel (already bought by Miller, but not into all the "flavored" stuff yet, just their "regular") and I bought whatever Schell's brands I could find.

The "new" Grain Belt gets relatively good reviews for a "macro light lager" on some of the beer review sites (altho' clear glass bottles always give me the willies- screw that sort of "tradition"). Still, it is sad that the "Golden Grain Belt" couldn't make it.

What's often forgotten with the tiny success of "craft beer" (still less than 4% of the market) is that the bulk of the beer sold in the US is still macro style "light lager" and, ever increasingly, "light beer". Pretty sure that "light beers" now make up close to 1/2 the market. (4 of the top 5 brands, etc.).

dave ziegler
07-31-2008, 06:05
One of my Favorite Beers when I was a young man was Neuweiler brewed in Allentown pa it was a smooth Crisp Flavorful Beer. I drank more of it and Schmidt's then anything else. Sadly even though it is still standing the Buildings sit rotting! In their day Neuweiler was a beer that was very big in pa!
Dave Z

dave ziegler
08-01-2008, 04:00
One of my Favorite Beers when I was a young man was Neuweiler brewed in Allentown pa it was a smooth Crisp Flavorful Beer. I drank more of it and Schmidt's then anything else. Sadly even though it is still standing the Buildings sit rotting! In their day Neuweiler was a beer that was very big in pa!
Dave Z
Does anyone remember Neuweiler and if so did you ever drink it and what did you think of it? I liked it alot back in the day and it was a cheap price and a very Flavorful beer as far as I remember they almost made a hundred years falling short at 86 yrs. The Buildings are still standing but not being used sadly.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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BourbonJoe
08-01-2008, 07:33
I remember Neuweiler Dave and I'm sure I drank some, but it was all too long ago for me to remember if I liked it.
Joe :usflag:

dave ziegler
08-01-2008, 08:27
I remember Neuweiler Dave and I'm sure I drank some, but it was all too long ago for me to remember if I liked it.
Joe :usflag:
Thats ok Joe, Question for you have you or anyone else tried the new beer from the Lion called -Steg 150- I got some last Night and it is delightful by itself or with a nice shot of Bourbon! If you have not tried it I recomend it pours copper color with a smell of Sweet Malts & Fruits and Hops. It has a big Head and the head sticks around with just the right amount of Carbonation. In your Mouth it has the taste of Sweet Malts with fruits and mild balancing Hops. It tastes delightful and is mild so you can drink a bunch but at the same time it is Highly Flavorful. The Lion makes alot of good beers but this one is the way a Lager should be!
This will be a Beer I will get regularly.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
08-05-2008, 08:57
A beer I am really enjoying these days besides The New Reading Premium is Victory Lager from Victory Brewing in Downingtown Pa. It is light smooth and very refreshing, they are more famous for their Hop devil but the Lager is worth every penny. You can just sit and drink a bunch with or without Whiskey and the last tastes as good as the First one!
It very Much reminds me of the old beers when I was young, sort of a Extra High quality Schmidt's or Ballantine Beer. Each April they have a celebration on the day Prohibition ended and make up a draft beer that uses most of the stuff that Schmidt's was made with. The old timers from Schmidt's that are still living go there offten too!
Dave Z
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dave ziegler
08-06-2008, 11:28
A beer I am really enjoying these days besides The New Reading Premium is Victory Lager from Victory Brewing in Downingtown Pa. It is light smooth and very refreshing, they are more famous for their Hop devil but the Lager is worth every penny. You can just sit and drink a bunch with or without Whiskey and the last tastes as good as the First one!
It very Much reminds me of the old beers when I was young, sort of a Extra High quality Schmidt's or Ballantine Beer. Each April they have a celebration on the day Prohibition ended and make up a draft beer that uses most of the stuff that Schmidt's was made with. The old timers from Schmidt's that are still living go there offten too!
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A beverage beer Is Food
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For anyone who wants to read about Victory Brewing here is their site I just tried their Sunrise Weissbier last Night it is wonderful, and for those who want lots of Hops their Hop Devil does the job!
www.victorybeer.com (http://www.victorybeer.com)
They are in downing town pa and they make some great beers!
Dave Z
Beer Its not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
08-08-2008, 05:17
One of the beers I would love to ahve tried back in the day was Old Topper Ale & Topper Pilsner. Made at first by the old Rochester Brewing Company and later by others.
Dave Z
Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
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dave ziegler
08-12-2008, 03:51
Another old Beer I never had was Great Falls Select beer brewed by Great falls brewery in Great falls Mont! I just read on the web that some Kids set fire to part of the old Brewery last year sadly. They went out of Bussiness in 1968 but alot of the buildings are being used by a machining Company yet. I wondered if anyone here had ever had it and was it a good beer? I have an old Flat top can in my collection. I just tried a new beer Last night that is brewed in Phila in a old Brewery there the old Wiesbrod & hess Oriental Brewing Company brewery built in 1885 when they bought it in 2001 no beer had been brewed there since the late 1930's The brewer is Philadelphia brewing and the beer is Rowhouse Red a Red Belguim Ale it is a very complex Ale and takes a couple of Bottles to get used to as has a very Peppery and dry taste at first with lots of fruit taste also. After my 3rd and last one last night I was enjoying it very much but was time to quit it has a ABV of 5% not heavy but it does come on strong and was drinking it with Rock & Rye!
Dave Z
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HipFlask
08-30-2008, 12:17
Well my new favorite is a blast from the past >>> Schlitz. Not the Malt Liquer but the classic Pilsner. Back in the mid eighties when I became of age the gusto had left the beer they where making. It did not have a very good reputation. And even though it was cheap it was hard to drink. Everyone knew sombody that worked or had worked at one of the many breweries in Milwaukee. The city smelled of brewing beer. Pabst now owns the rights to the brand and has dug up the recipe from the 1960's. And it is my new all around general beer. The type that you always keep around because everyone will enjoy it. Great balanced flavor with and a little bit of hops.

The beer that made Milwaukee Famous is back!

ratcheer
08-30-2008, 12:56
I just picked up a six-pack of Michelob (not Light, Ultra, or any of that other mess, just plain old Michelob) to go with my Labor Day barbecuing chores. It is quite good, kind of like a Bud but with some depth and hops. Imminently thirst quenching.

Tim

TBoner
08-31-2008, 18:26
The American beers I love now are many and varied, though my most consumed American brew is probably Bridgeport IPA, a traditional British IPA (i.e. well-balanced and terrific with food or on its own) except done with some American hops.

The first beer I really liked was Michelob Dark, which was discontinued just under a decade ago. I drank it regularly when I first got out on my own, since it was relatively cheap and very good (IIRC).

Regards,

craigthom
08-31-2008, 18:39
I keep meaning to pick up some Michelob, but I keep forgetting.

About a year and a half ago they went back to the bottle of my youth and to their even older all-malt recipe. They ditched the rice adjunct, so it's even more like beer.

dave ziegler
09-03-2008, 06:21
This time of the year is always a good Beer time as all the late Summer Fall Ales come out! Last Night I enjoyed a couple of Bottles of Buffalo Bills Pumpkin Ale it is very nice, When It is done will give one I saw recomended a try Saranac Pumpkin Ale. I also have been very Much enjoying Leinekugel Berry Weis it is awesome Beer flaovred with Black berry Juice. I saw one the other day I would also like to try Purple Haze Raspberry Ale!
All The Great Winter Ales will be out and the beer Distributer told me look for many Fruit & Pumpkin Ales to be coming in the next weeks. I look forward to them I enjoy Drinking Rock & Rye With them sometimes too!
Dave Z
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Gillman
09-22-2008, 16:01
I'm tasting now Reading Beer, the canned version Dave gave me, brewed for the distributor by High Falls Brewery (formerly Genessee) in Rochester, NY. I like this better than the bottled one made by the Lion in Wilkes-Barre, PA. It is fresh and lively with a good balance of malt, light hops and adjunct. It's 1974 all over again! Thanks Dave, this is a fine taste of history.

Gary

dave ziegler
09-23-2008, 16:21
I'm tasting now Reading Beer, the canned version Dave gave me, brewed for the distributor by High Falls Brewery (formerly Genessee) in Rochester, NY. I like this better than the bottled one made by the Lion in Wilkes-Barre, PA. It is fresh and lively with a good balance of malt, light hops and adjunct. It's 1974 all over again! Thanks Dave, this is a fine taste of history.

Gary
I am very Glad you liked it Gary I called the Guys who own the Micro Brewery that brought back and own the Brand and told them what you thought and they were very Happy you Liked the Reading and also said alot of People like the canned more. I myself like the canned Reading better but both are very good and the draft made at the Micro Brewery is very close in its taste to them also. They want to build their Own plant but are waiting till things get better and giving the brand a chance to get well known again. I always tell people about it and to my surprize they gave me a beautiful Wood and steel Reading tap as a gift for my spreading the word! Had a beer tonight given me by a friend wondered if you ever had Red Stripe Jamaican Lager Beer? Boy it is a very nice beer I will revisit this one again.

I hope that Reading keeps getting more known as it seems It is going very good now it came out in June of 2006 after all those years since Reading went under in 1976 and Schmidt's owned it last till they went under. I think it is so close to the Original but a bit more flavorful with less bite.
Dave Z
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dave ziegler
11-04-2008, 09:06
I Just tried A very nice beer from Texas Shiner Black Lager is a very nice beer a friend of mine went down to Del and brought back a case of Shiner Black lager I bought half the case and I find it to be a very Good Beer, I had tried their Bock Beer and Like it but this Black Beer is really tasty! and in the mid $20.00 range
Dave Z
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jesskidden
11-20-2008, 12:34
One of my Favorite Beers when I was a young man was Neuweiler brewed in Allentown pa it was a smooth Crisp Flavorful Beer.

Dave, thought I'd note (in case you missed it) that Neuweiler is the latest resurrected brand (in this case, their Stock Ale), complete with input from the Ortlieb's. (Altho' technically Ortlieb only brewed the Neuweiler Cream Ale, from what I remember. Neuweiler had a number of labels, also making an IPA, Half and Half, Bock, Porter, Stout and a standard US "light Lager".)

Iconic beer makes a return -Allentown's Neuweiler's Ale brewed again after more than 10 years. (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1227157534319260.xml&coll=3&thispage=2)

dave ziegler
11-21-2008, 10:49
Dave, thought I'd note (in case you missed it) that Neuweiler is the latest resurrected brand (in this case, their Stock Ale), complete with input from the Ortlieb's. (Altho' technically Ortlieb only brewed the Neuweiler Cream Ale, from what I remember. Neuweiler had a number of labels, also making an IPA, Half and Half, Bock, Porter, Stout and a standard US "light Lager".)

Iconic beer makes a return -Allentown's Neuweiler's Ale brewed again after more than 10 years. (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1227157534319260.xml&coll=3&thispage=2)
Hey Thanks for the tip I will have to get up there and sample it! Neuweilers Cream Ale was one of my Favorites back then I hope they Bottle it in the Future. Its been alot more then 10 yrs since it was gone the paper should have said around 20 yrs but I am excited about trying it!
Thanks Jesskidden you sure know what the Lastest is when it comes to Beers!
Dave z

New2Whiskey
11-21-2008, 12:20
Imperial IPAs and Imperials Stouts. I have yet not to enjoy one. Honorary mention is Hoppin' Frog B.O.R.I.S. Try it. It's one of the best crafts I ever had!

Years ago I drank MGD High Life. I loved it. But always had a headache afterwards (no...not from being drunk....or buzzed....just a headache). I have not had one in a long time nor do I desire it since I've been tasting craft brews. It's amazing the complexities acheived by these small breweries. And the overall experience is undescribabe.

Have some mango chips (dried mango) with an Imperial IPA. You'll be in heaven.

funknik
11-21-2008, 14:39
In my opinion, there is no better beer than Fat Tire from Ft. Collins, CO. Impossible to find east of the Mississippi River, but well worth a trip to the rockies. Out here in New England I like Ballantine XXX for in a can and Long Trail Alt from VT for high class stuff.

jesskidden
11-22-2008, 04:10
Neuweilers Cream Ale ...Its been alot more then 10 yrs since it was gone the paper should have said around 20 yrs


I think the quote " It's been more than a decade since anyone brewed Neuweiler's" refers to the Neuweiler beers (there was a Black & Tan as well as an ale- neither the Cream Ale or the Stock- think it was the Premium Ale- maybe other beers, too) that were contract-brewed by The Lion in the early 1990's.

I forgot or maybe never knew the deal (maybe a Neuweiler relative was involved?), but the company was just called "Neuweiler Brewing Co." with a Bethlehem, PA address. As seen on this old BeerMe page) (http://beerme.com/brewery.php?2903)I think one of their beers even won a GABF award at one point.

Of course, the newspaper article noted that Ortleib never sold that brand name to Schmidt's, so maybe he was involved as well? I remember vaguely picking up a case of that version of Neuweiler Ale up in the Easton area- don't remember much about it, tho'.

polyamnesia
03-02-2009, 07:02
edit: oops, i forgot this was about AMERICAN beers...i mentioned euro favs below, but that was long ago....gotta stand by my Stone/DFH loves now...add to that Troegs, Harpoon, and, yes yes, Victory (Hop Devil!)

i've fallen in love with both Stone and Dogfish Head offerings...mostly the pale ale spectrum (a true hophead am i)...also love so so much Guinness Draft....esp. in a pub....in eire....for everyday pours, though Yuengling is still a solid summer sip, i have included much of Saranac's offerings...and Sam Adams....all those macroMicrobreweries....?!:)

used to be, long ago, a big fan of Behaven Ale, Newcastle Brown, Grolsch...those were the odd ones in Mississippi long ago...then Abita came along...that Wheat beer was a favorite for a long time. heck, now i remember having a crush on that oddball Michelob "dark"....went well with bagel chips.

gotta add that i am pleased i live a mile from the Iron Hill Brewery in Media...good suds and good reviews on BAdvocate. even glad-er my brother lives a stone's throw from Dogfish Head downstate DE....gotta visit soon

dave ziegler
03-18-2009, 05:50
Last Night for the first time I brought home a case of Anchor Porter By ( Anchor Steam brewing of SF ) and Boy is it Good Stuff. A friend at work gave me a gift card so I went on the Beer Website and they said this was real good they were soo Right.
It is one of the Best Porters I have had in many a day. Smooth Creamy and full of flavors jumping out in your mouth. This will be one I will get again pricey but so Dam Good.
Dave Z
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Luna56
03-18-2009, 08:48
Gotta agree with you there, Dave, I don't usually drink porters but the Anchor Steam is really great. Big and solid. you're making me thirsty.

Cheers!

dave ziegler
03-19-2009, 03:58
Last Night It was Anchor Porter with two shots of Rittenhouse Rye Modern version fromm HH very Nice combo. This Porter is really growing on me some of the best I have ever drank!
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Beer Its Not Just A Beverage Beer Is Food
Dave Z ---------------------------------------

dave ziegler
03-23-2009, 04:10
Thinking last Night after watching some of the old Ads DVD set I bought I was remembering good Old Ham's beer, it was a very nice beer and thier ad about clear water and country hit me as back those days where I lived was also out in country but no more.

Does anyone else remember Hams beer and if so what did you think of it. We were actualy able to get it here in the Peoples republic of Pa.
Maybe you can give me information Jess kidden on it. The Theo Hams brewery I know that much!
Dave Z
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Beer Its Not Just a Beverage Beer Is Food

bigman
09-26-2009, 00:58
Well, this week I think I am going to have to go with the Upland Brewing Company Wheat Ale. However, I have also been enjoying so many beers this summer that itís hard to pick a favorite, that just happened to be the latest, and itís from just a few hours south of me, so itís a local. I also love the Guinness, and another local from the Lafayette Brewing Company Black Angus Stout. As fro what I used to like, in collage it was what ever was cheep, but even then if I had the cash I would go with Guinness or Bass out, and Kalianís Irish Red, and how can I forget Rolling Rock.
Locking back, both then and now, there are very few Beers that I donít enjoy, but if I have to pick an absolute go to now and then, it would be;
Now Leinenkugels Sunset Wheat
Then Bud Light

PAspirit1
09-26-2009, 15:34
Budweiser is fine by me. I like Yeungling (sp) better and drink it often. I like Blue Moon better and drink it infrequently. As far as non American beer I like Modelo's Especial and Stellas.

ODaniel
09-27-2009, 13:06
Three Floyds Dark Lord Imperial Stout. I'm too young to say many years ago, hah. Man is it good. I guess I can say I used to drink Budweiser, but never liked it or any BudMillerCoors products, and I tried Guinness and loved it. So that used to be my favorite, now that I've had so much good beer it tastes like what it is, a watered down light stout. Guinness is 4.1% ABV, hah. There is nothing heavy or thick about it.

http://ratebeer.com/beer/top-50/

MarkEdwards
09-27-2009, 17:04
I'll have to say Shiner Bock nowadays. I tend to like the heavier-tasting, darker beers (he said with too small a sample size - grin), and gravitate towards Belgians since I don't generally like American mass-produced beers.

When I was younger (mumblety-mumble years ago), I liked Strohs and Miller High Life. I could never understand what people saw in Coors or Budweiser.

Gillman
09-27-2009, 19:06
One I tried recently wowed me with its fine flavor and historical authenticity: Stone Smoked Porter.

Gary