View Full Version : Charbay Does Craft Distilling Right.
Charbay is in St. Helena, California, in the California wine country north of San Francisco. I haven't tasted their whiskey but on paper, at least, this is how to do a craft-distilled whiskey. The rest of this post is from their press release.
(St. Helena, CA) June 17, 2008 – It was an inspired moment in 1999 when 12th & 13th Generation Distillers Miles & Marko Karakasevic tasted a micro-brewed Pilsner and envisioned the whiskey it could become.
They decided to distill 20,000 gallons of the Pilsner in their classical Alambic Pot Still – enough to create just 22 barrels of whiskey. Little did they know that they were making distilling history by doing so.
Technically, all whiskey is distilled beer – proprietary combinations of fermented grains referred to by various names such as “distiller’s beer,” “low-wash,” and “wort.” Using a finished, great-drinking beer is a first.
“There is no other whiskey out that you can really taste the beer that it’s made from,” said Marko Karakasevic. “Our goal was to balance the spice from the hops and the barley flavors with just the right amount of oak.”
“Holy wow,” said Stephen Schuler, buyer at Morrell Wines & Spirits in New York City. “This seriously might be one of the best made American Whiskies I have ever laid my lips on, and just ask my liver, I have had quite a few.”
The whiskey is being released as a collector’s series. Release I, which debuted at just 3 years old, is sold out. Release II, which debuts this month, is 9 years old. It is available at select fine spirits stores across the U.S. by allocation. Suggested retail is $325/750ml. For assistance with finding a store, contact Charbay at (800) M-DISTILL (634-7845).
The whiskey’s Pilsner lager base was made from two-row malted barley, grown and malted in British Columbia, considered the finest grain available for its intense flavors. Miles and Marko added additional hops before double-distilling in their classical Alambic Charentais Pot Still. The whiskey was aged in new American oak barrels, charred to #3 - affectionately called “Gator skin” for its striped appearance.
Charbay’s distillers believe in allowing the whiskey to age in various ambient temperatures for added complexity.
About Charbay
Charbay is owned and operated by the Karakasevic family. Founder, 12th
Generation Winemaker & Master Distiller Miles Karakasevic, and his son, Marko, produce award-winning small-batch vodkas, as well as Alambic Pot Still rum, whiskey, Pastis and brandy in their classical Alambic Charentais Pot Still located in Mendocino County (an hour north of their winery/distillery in Napa Valley). The family also produces wines, Aperitifs, liqueurs & ports made with selections of their 25-year library of brandies. Still House tours of their Napa Valley facility are available by appointment. Call (800) M-DISTILL (634-7845).
CorvallisCracker
06-18-2008, 16:35
It is available at select fine spirits stores across the U.S. by allocation. Suggested retail is $325/750ml.
Can't afford that, even if it were to be available around here, which I'm sure won't be the case.
The only Charbay product I've tried/bought is the white rum, which is excellent, but pricey at $40.
Interesting that they distilled a hopped beer. Before that to my knowledge, small quantities of hopped beer were distilled here and there in Germany and that was it.
The reason for not using hopped beer in a wash or mash was, in my opinion, that hops cost money and were first added to beer to preserve it.
You don't need to preserve beer it to make whiskey because it will be distilled off in a jiffy after fermentation.
So neither the technical nor the economic incentive was there to do it.
Once someone decided too, though, one can see that the distillate might be improved as a result and that sounds like it happened with Charbay.
The German beer schnapps I've had were just okay, but they weren't aged for long if at all.
Gary
TNbourbon
06-18-2008, 20:37
I found one around here a couple of years ago, and snagged if for Drew Kulsveen (who'd previously mentioned that I should, if seen), and he opened it at a Gazebo late-night session.
As advertised, it was very definitely beer-like, and very good. Wish I could be more descriptive, but after a single taste 2 years ago:skep: ...
By the way, that bottle indicated it was one of just 800, and I'm assuming of the first 'series'.
Wow, this sounds very cool.
Tim, we're gonna have to hypnotize you to bring forward your suppressed memories of this stuff.
Chuck, I hope you'll acquire some and let us know your impressions.
Cheers!
Actually, I have a supressed memory that maybe I did taste it in April at the ADI conference. I remember tasting something and thinking, "that really does taste like beer." But don't anybody spend $350 based on this, because I'm not even sure it happened.
But I have corresponded with the Karakasevics. They're very nice and very forthcoming, none of the smoke and mirrors I've gotten from some other craft distilleries.
ILLfarmboy
06-19-2008, 05:09
Well, you had my attention untill you said "beer like". I never developed a taste for beer. Its the hopps/bitterness I find distasteful. But at $350 I'd have to be pretty flush with cash, anyhow.
I found one around here a couple of years ago, and snagged...
Just out of curiosity, was it ~$325 back then too?
This sounds like a very interesting product, one I was all set to try and find before I saw the price, but I simply wouldn't be willing to pay that much for something that is aged a mere 9 years...
TNbourbon
06-19-2008, 09:45
Just out of curiosity, was it ~$325 back then too?..
Yes, it was, minus a bit of a discount.
(I would have just said 'yes', but this darned 24-character limit wouldn't let me:hot:)
Would anyone really pay that much for an Amercian malt? More than nearly any other new American whiskey release? It seems crazy to me. It better be good at that price, but I would fear it is just a triumph of marketing (i.e. trying to position themselves as a luxury brand and build cache).
I think they have a reputation as impeccable artisans. Much like we are prepared to trust Julian Van Winkle to bottle nothing that is less than wonderful, their fans are their fans and willing to pay to be among the few to experience whatever they do. I think that's where you want to be as a craft producer. With all these other knuckleheads selling young whiskey flavored with woodchips, Charbay has created a unique product using a mix of modern and old-fashioned techniques, good old-fashioned aging being the old-fashioned part. I'm not going to shell out $325 either, but I admire what they are doing as a business model for a craft distillery.
I found one around here a couple of years ago, and snagged if for Drew Kulsveen (who'd previously mentioned that I should, if seen), and he opened it at a Gazebo late-night session.
As advertised, it was very definitely beer-like, and very good. Wish I could be more descriptive, but after a single taste 2 years ago:skep: ...
By the way, that bottle indicated it was one of just 800, and I'm assuming of the first 'series'.
I was fortunate enough to be among the handful of people at the gazebo that night, Tim. Drew was quite gracious and offered a pour to anyone who wanted one. I remember it tasted like 'pot', and I have heard others give that opinion too. (I had a college roommate who kept his stash in my fridge and it gave my orange juice a unique flavor. The Charbay brought back that memory).
Cheers,
TNbourbon
06-19-2008, 18:07
I was fortunate enough to be among the handful of people at the gazebo that night, Tim. Drew was quite gracious and offered a pour to anyone who wanted one. I remember it tasted like 'pot', and I have heard others give that opinion too. (I had a college roommate who kept his stash in my fridge and it gave my orange juice a unique flavor. The Charbay brought back that memory).
Cheers,
Mike, I'm one of the "square" products of the Sixties and Seventies (there are more of us than you know:bigeyes:) who would have no way of making that association -- either then or now.
Oh great, make me out to be a stoner :skep:
Just kidding!
I primarily gained knowledge via the fine individuals I sometimes passed the time with. My primary vice back in the day was a fine mixed drink. I have since evolved into fine whiskies. :grin:
Pouring a whiskey is whole lot easier to prepare than squeezing limes...
And my head doesn't hurt in the morning.
Anyway, back to the Charbay. Most importantly, I applaud any effort in this area. However, I don't like hops in my beer and that follows with my whiskey.
doubleblank
06-20-2008, 07:48
Chuck is exactly right in describing Charbay's products. They have consistently put out excellent products from their winery/distillery......and always expensive. One of their practices is to do limited runs of unique items in great packaging to instill an aura of "collectibility". Their website currently lists a couple of retailers who have remaining stock of the original 3yo whiskey. Their "brandy" is the only product I have tried at a friends house and it is quite good.
Randy
I actually have a bottle of the first release (no I did not pay for it) and have tasted the second release.
The first was bottled at about 3 years old if I remember right and is right below 130 proof. And yes, it does taste like 130 proof beer. No other way to really describe the flavor. It was quite a shock upon first nose & taste and I wasn't even sure if I liked it. It completely engulfs your senses. But now that I have grown accustom to it, it can be very enjoyable.
The second release has been aged for 9 years and is more mellow. I believe its about 110 proof, still quite hoppy/beer-y - much better than the 1st release in my opinion.
Though both are quite good - i think the $300+ price tag is way too high.
It's interesting. I know distillation originated as a way to concentrate essences for perfumes and such. Certainly the best non-grape brandies taste like concentrates of the fruit--e.g., apple, pear--on which they are based. I don't really think of brandy that way, nor whiskey either, especially since distiller's beer, especially as made from a bourbon mash, bears so little resemblance to what I normally would call beer. But these are people who come from those fruit spirits traditions, so why wouldn't they try to just concentrate the flavor of a very good beer. Makes sense.
But if that's what it is, so far as what you can taste, a concentrated version of the beer from which it was made, then what did that aging get you?
mgilbertva
07-11-2008, 17:57
While hops has a role to play in preserving beer through its antibiotic properties, its main purpose is flavoring. (It was introduced to European beer in the thirteenth century.) Since whiskey needs no help with preservatives, and since good whiskey has plenty of flavor without additives, what's the purpose of including hops?
craigthom
07-11-2008, 18:55
I'm late to this, too. If you notice a "pot" smell, then the dry hopping before distillation is making it into the final product, which I find really intriguing, but not enough to spend that kind of money.
Hops and marijuana are close relatives, and an extra hoppy IPA smells a lot like a big sticky bud.
I know this because I read it in a book.
CorvallisCracker
07-11-2008, 21:49
Hops and marijuana are close relatives, and an extra hoppy IPA smells a lot like a big sticky bud.
I've never noticed that.
I know this because I read it in a book.
Yeah. Me too.
I've never noticed that.
Yeah. Me too.
You read it in a book?
Wish I had that excuse.
Before embarking on my current vocation, I went through a period of youthful rebellion and became quite, um, familiar with that smell.
Which is why I grab a very hoppy pint of ale when I start missing the good ol' days (or what little of those days I can actually recall.)
I hope someone will make a similar whiskey at an affordable price point. I'd love to try it.
shoshani
07-13-2008, 22:19
Hops and marijuana are close relatives, and an extra hoppy IPA smells a lot like a big sticky bud.
Extra hoppy IPAs smell nothing like Bud...
Oh, you don't mean as in -weiser? LOL
whskylvr
09-28-2008, 13:56
I have had the pleasure of tasting all of CHARBAYS products. The are true Artisians. They take great pride in the products they create.
The whiskey they made was from bottle ready pilsner from a well known winery now, that used to brew beer and shut down the brewery in 1999.
I have been to the distillery / winery and tasted both the First Release Whiskey I and Whiskey II. Whiskey II is more malty and far less hoppy on the palate. The aftertaste has a distinct malty / spicy hop flavor and it tends to last for over an hour. This is very intriguing to me.
Marko the 13th Generation Master Distiller in the family has a new whiskey coming out "DOUBLED and TWISTED" it is a crystal clear whiskey made from IPA (India Pale Ale). I know in order to be called WHISKEY it has to be aged in oak wood so Marko will put the crytal clear spirit in oak for a day. I have tasted this spirit straight of the still and it is fabulous. I would say IMHO that this is probably the lightest whiskey ever. Should be available in Oct / Nov 2008.
They are also going to be bottling Miles (Marko's Dad) Brandy -- Charbay Double-Distilled 1983 25year old Brandy (First Release) aged in French Oak. This stuff is fantastic!! Availble soon in very limited supply.
Just in case anyone is interested Charbay is producing a tequila in Mexico as we speak.
Dave
I'm sure its interesting but for $350 I can get a Hirsch 22 yr old rye and a Benriach Authenticus 21 yr old malt (or a PVW) and still have enough change for some good cigars to compliment them.
I was pretty excited when I saw this one last night so I had to try it. This is a really great whiskey and yes, it does taste a lot like weed more than anything else! I noted this to the distiller and he said it smells even more like weed when it's being made and that once he could have sworn someone was smoking in the distillery. I just wish this wasn't so expensive, if it was cheaper I'd definitely buy some but the cheapest I can get it for is $300 so, unfortunately, I'll have to pass. I'm really glad that I at least got to try this though!
Hops and weed are related plants and although all whiskey is, technically, made from beer, this is the only instance of a whiskey being made from a hopped beer, hence that aroma (I assume).
whskylvr
11-12-2008, 15:14
If anybody ventures to the Central Valley of California or close by give me a call and we can meet.
I have a few bottles of this Whiskey. I love it and would love for you to try it. I have alot of fun with it especially if we are tasting different whiskies and I bring this one out.
Dave
pm me for my cell number.
Hops and weed are related plants and although all whiskey is, technically, made from beer, this is the only instance of a whiskey being made from a hopped beer, hence that aroma (I assume).
Yeah, I assume the same regarding the aroma and flavor. iirc hops and marijuana are both members of the cannabis family or something like that.
I have a few bottles of this Whiskey. I love it and would love for you to try it. I have alot of fun with it especially if we are tasting different whiskies and I bring this one out.
Too bad I don't live anywhere near you, even though I've already tried both I'd still get a couple of good bourbon and rye bottles together try and take you up on this if I did! :]
DeanSheen
03-19-2009, 06:22
This style is very interesting. It's too bad they are so expensive, they seem more like collectors items than anything.
Any movement on the "DOUBLED and TWISTED"?
whskylvr
03-19-2009, 13:22
gothbat,
Where are you located? I am heading across the country in the summer to Kentucky. Maybe we can meet up.
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DeanSheen,
I have not heard any new news about "Doubled and Twisted" but have a call into Marko. I will post any news as soon as I hear of any.
Dave
Yeah, I assume the same regarding the aroma and flavor. iirc hops and marijuana are both members of the cannabis family or something like that.
Indeed they are. In addition to the brewing-type hops, there are also ornamental hops, the aurum (golden) variety being the most common. It's a very nice, perennial, well-behaved vine that does well in both sun and shade. They have that nice hops scent to them too.
Tune in next week for another edition of "Garden's Corner" with Josh.:rolleyes:
gothbat,
Where are you located? I am heading across the country in the summer to Kentucky. Maybe we can meet up.
Hi Dave,
Unfortunately I'm not near KY, I'm all the way up in NJ. I do appreciate the offer though! Enjoy KY!!! Someday I gotta get down there but who knows when that will be.
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