Jack Rye?

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Originally Posted by MyOldKyDram

Four Rose's 17 yo gift shop bottling is $57.Just sayin'.

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17 year old uncut bourbon for not much more than an unaged gimmick?

I don't see Jack drinkers as big cocktail types which is where the white whiskey market is.

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Originally Posted by MGillespie

It's not neutral spirits, gang. Just confirmed the following with Jeff Arnett: 1: Rye-based mashbill (see my post above) distilled at 140 proof (70% abv). The spirit that's being laid down in casks is at traditional barrel strength 62.5% abv (125 proof), and both aged and unaged versions will be bottled at 40% abv (80 proof). As for not using the "whiskey" labeling, Jeff advises that they have TTB approval to call the unaged spirit "Tennessee Rye", but since they're not even putting into casks for a few minutes, they cannot use "whiskey" on the label. In Jeff's words, they're following the traditional Jack Daniel's whiskey-making process right up to the point where it goes into the barrel...and bottle it instead.

I really should hang out here more often...

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It says neutral spirit on the label.

Also, in my experience, young ryes are usually more fruity than spicy, charcoal filtered or not. Ole George Rye from Grand Traverse, Koval's unaged rye and Pikesville exhibit those tropical fruit notes.

I wrote the post over here first, then decided to turn it into a blog post. It was then that I noticed the word 'whiskey' appeared nowhere in the press materials nor on the label, and the class on the label is neutral spirit. Well, I don't know what Jeff is smoking, but 'neutral spirit' is not distilled at 85% ABV, not unless it's subsequently re-distilled to north of 95% ABV, because that's the definition of 'neutral spirit.'

According to the label, it's Jack Daniel's Tennessee Vodka.

The terms 'neutral spirit' and 'whiskey' are mutually exclusive. It can't be both. I shall not speculate further, but something is seriously hinky here.

The COLA also shows a type of Neutral Spirits, so either the TTB has gone further off the rails or the fibbing is strong on this product from BF.

Also in the TTB registry for JD are label approvals for whiskey products called Before and After in 375ML sizes. Keep an eye out for a white whiskey/aged whiskey twin pack from the house of Daniel's.

Calling a neutral spirit product "Tennessee Rye," if that's what's going on, is an example of exactly what the TTB should not allow. In the context of distilled spirits, "Rye" is a type of whiskey. This is analogous to making vodka from a bourbon mash, calling it "Kentucky Bourbon," and just omitting the word whiskey.

But why would JD be aging vodka in barrels? Like Chuck said in his blog post, aging vodka doesn't get you whiskey. Does the "After" label say neutral spirits? Does the "Before?" Could it be that they produced a neutral spirit to bottle as a white whiskey poseur in order to have a more drinkable product and that the stocks they're laying up are distilled to less than 160 proof?

I don't want to speculate further but the only way everybody is telling the truth is if they made a rye whiskey distillate, put some of it into barrels, then subsequently redistilled some of it to above 95% ABV to qualify it as neutral.

The regs could not be more clear on what 'neutral' means.

The fact that the words 'rye mash' are there is significant, since the label for a neutral spirit has to disclose the material from which it distilled, at least by type (grain, fruit, cane, etc.).

But the bottom line is, it's not whiskey. A mod should probably move the thread. :)

As indicated above, Before and After are whiskey products.

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Originally Posted by cowdery

But the bottom line is, it's not whiskey. A mod should probably move the thread. :)

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I was waiting on some other confirmation before relegating it to another forum.

(At least) one further observation from me: seems a little silly, considering the price point, the lack of requirement that it's a new barrel, and the fact that BF owns a cooperage, that JD wouldn't go through with the 5 minutes in a barrel in order to gain the value of the word "whiskey" on the bottle, if there weren't another disqualifying factor.