Bought a bottle of Dickel #12 - Am confused

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Originally Posted by Gillman

I agree with Thad, I think what you are tasting is what some here also recognize as the "vitamins" taste, meaning a distinctive taste and smell akin to that of the crunchy skin of a vitamin. IIRC, the term was first used here by Jeff Yeast, an early BOTY and former prolific contributor. I feel it is a house flavor of George Dickel, probably resulting from the fermentation of the beer and carried into the new distillate after stilling. It is not my favourite taste in bourbon-style whiskey, but I enjoy it once in a while. I once bought off the retail shelf in San Francisco some Dickel (black label) distilled in the 70's and you could taste it in that too although more subdued than in current bottlings, which may mean the stocks were more aged then, or maybe there is another explanation.

I think most Dickel is consumed with cola and it works very well in that combination.

American straight whiskey often exhibits very distinctive flavors because of the secondary (non-ethanol) constituents generated by the yeast, and the type of yeast is important too. In Beam you get (to me) a characteristic funky/earthy note; most iterations of Four Roses are flowery/spicy; Woodford Reserve, which is all-pot-stilled, has a characteristic oily note, almost like some Irish single pot still or pot still rum, and so forth. Heaven Hill's are more neutral (to me again) and "clean" and is WR's stablemate, Old Fitzgerald 100 proof. Jack Daniels seems very estery with yellow fruit and mango notes. These are specific house characteristics and are to be prized as giving identity to each product and as always taste will differ - personal taste - as to their merits. It is also true that some people do not detect the flavors I've mentioned and fair enough, there is no fully agreed taxonomy of tastes although I do find often that there is agreement amongst regular tasters as to what they find.

Gary

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Thanks Gary. "Vitamins" would not have been a terrible word to use, had I thought of it. In retrospect, it would be pretty accurate.

And your general descriptions of house traits will help me. I agree with you, for instance on the 4R products - I tried the SmB before the YL and actually didn't care for it, it was too floral. (That Q yeast must be something). I'm now reluctant to try their Single Barrel for that reason, though the YL is very, very drinkable. Would like to try their SBLe, but can't find it anywhere. (Also cant find any Old Fitzgerald of any kind anywhere).

I've seen the word "oily" applied here on the forum several times, and it intrigues me, as mouthfeel is an important part of my experience when tasting.

I'm big fan of Dickel #12. I have never experienced what you are describing. It sounds like you just found a bad bottle. It could just be as simple as you not liking it, which is perfectly fine. I don't care for FR Yellow Label at all, but there are quite a few people here who disagree with me. Different strtokes.... it's all good. :toast:

Just to echo the YMMV theme, I enjoy a pour of Dickle 12 occasionally but think Breckenridge is overpriced, thin, watery and barely good enough to use as a mixer at a frat party and will never buy another bottle. Neither of us are wrong.

I do sometimes get the Vitamins taste that Gary spoke of but it is typically so far in the background that it doesn't detract from the honey sweetness and tobacco interplay I enjoy. Not complex or challenging but simply a tasty product of the charcoal filtering process, Dickle 12 is to my palate the most successful of the easy to find Tennessee whiskeys.

sailor22 pretty much summed up my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Gillman

I agree with Thad, I think what you are tasting is what some here also recognize as the "vitamins" taste, meaning a distinctive taste and smell akin to that of the crunchy skin of a vitamin.

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You guys nailed it! I bought a 375ml of Dickel #12 because it is so highly regarded, and I just haven't gotten into it. That "vitamin" taste is exactly why. To me JD also has a similar though less prominent flavor. I often wondered if it has to do with the charcoal filtering as to me both JD and GD have similar flavor profiles where they taste like bourbon, but all the typical bourbon flavors are more muted for lack of a better term.

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Originally Posted by SFS

I tried the SmB before the YL and actually didn't care for it, it was too floral. (That Q yeast must be something). I'm now reluctant to try their Single Barrel for that reason, though the YL is very, very drinkable.

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I haven't had the FRYL yet, but I have had the FRSmB and the FRSB. To me the small batch and single barrel products are totally different. The single barrel is my favorite whiskey (out of about the 50 or so I've tried) and I'm not a huge fan of the small batch. I like the small batch occasionally, but the single barrel is the whiskey I would chose if I were in the "stranded on and island and I could only pick one" scenario. I highly recommend trying it out if you get a chance.

I think the muting is exactly right and it comes from one thing: maple charcoal leaching before barreling.

I don't think the house flavors of JD and GD are from the charcoal though, I think it is a by-product of the yeast's reproduction, possibly too from reactions ongoing in the maturing spirit.

To me, oily can mean a tallow-like smell, waxy, and I understand these are higher alcohols (fusels) that are aromatic and indeed can give body to the drink. Sometimes they seem cleanser-like but I am not sure if it is the same group of compounds.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Bourserker

You guys nailed it! I bought a 375ml of Dickel #12 because it is so highly regarded, and I just haven't gotten into it. That "vitamin" taste is exactly why. To me JD also has a similar though less prominent flavor. I often wondered if it has to do with the charcoal filtering as to me both JD and GD have similar flavor profiles where they taste like bourbon, but all the typical bourbon flavors are more muted for lack of a better term.


I haven't had the FRYL yet, but I have had the FRSmB and the FRSB. To me the small batch and single barrel products are totally different. The single barrel is my favorite whiskey (out of about the 50 or so I've tried) and I'm not a huge fan of the small batch. I like the small batch occasionally, but the single barrel is the whiskey I would chose if I were in the "stranded on and island and I could only pick one" scenario. I highly recommend trying it out if you get a chance.

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OK, I'll put it next on my list to buy. What's your take on the 4R Limited Edition SB? I haven't ever seen a bottle, much less tasted it.

I too have given Dickel #12 a couple chances. I know some people really like it, but I couldn't get into it. The nose reminds me of opening the box of a new pair of dress shoes. I've also noticed this with some mezcal. The taste of Dickel #12 reminds me of Scotch in a way, except without peat.

Wow, this thread sure goes to show that different people experience the same tastes differently.

Dickel #12 doesn't remind me of scotch at all. (FR bottlings perhaps, because they seem dry and flowery)

Dickel doesn't remind me much of JD either. GD's got that vitamin thing going on, which I like, and JD tastes of soot and yellow fruit, to me anyhow.

Eddited:

I should of said JD has that bananna smell. There are some scotches, Like Glenfiddich 12 that remind me of another yellow fruit; ripe bartlet pears.

I'm a GD 12 fan, and generally keep a bottle open for when I want to taste something different.

I'm intrigued with the "vitamin" comments, because I don't get that at all.

I just opened a new bottle and put a pour in a glencarin to see if I can get the "vitamin" note. I'm still not getting it.