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  1. #21
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    The bananas-like taste of Jack Daniels does seems a signature of the brand. The taste seems to blend well with cola. Whether the bananas came before or after the cola is hard to say (i.e., is it an intentional result to ensure an optimal mix with Coke and Pepsi or an "unconscious" evolution of the taste over 100 years and more?).

    The taste is one that pleases many, but not all.

    I notice it at its most intense in Gentleman Jack. Why this is so I am not sure. The second charcoal mellowing doesn't seem to remove the banana esters if that is what they are. Maybe it contributes to a rounder, smoother mouthfeel.

    I like some bottlings of the Single Barrel, I mentioned some earlier in the thread, where the banana-like esters are muted and you get dark caramelized oak tones and a dark cherry-like taste. That version seems closer to bourbon.

    These drinks do really change in my opinion over 30 years and more though. The JD from the 70's I tasted with Mike Veach seemed different than the current regular JD, not just because of proof. I have some 70's Dickel which does not show the "vitamins" flavor some have noticed (including me) in the current bottlings.

    I think the JD "taste" where it is most accentuated probably results form a combination of the particular yeast used and perhaps a high fermentation temperature.

    I believe all the bourbon makers (I include JD in this in a broad sense) ferment at an ambient temperature but e.g., are the fermentation rooms cooled in the summer and heated in the winter? I don't know, this is something not often discussed here.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 12-12-2008 at 04:26.

  2. #22
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    The opposite may occur with rye....more clove generated by lower temps. Not sure what the initial fermentation temp of rye is vs bourbon or JD... or the particular yeasts used..but a lower temp could explain some of the clove spiciness from the yeast in addition to the rye itself.

  3. #23
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    bananas and vitamins?

    well, this banana conundrum is interesting...and wow, nice research and speculation by our more technically saavy members.

    of course, related, but also almost off-topic, WHY the vitamin sense in Dickel? two Tenn whisk*ies...why are they so different?

    seems that aside from mashbills and charcoal, there are other factors suggested above...temperature, etc....
    HUP!

  4. #24
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    Re: bananas and vitamins?

    Quote Originally Posted by polyamnesia View Post
    well, this banana conundrum is interesting...and wow, nice research and speculation by our more technically saavy members.

    of course, related, but also almost off-topic, WHY the vitamin sense in Dickel? two Tenn whisk*ies...why are they so different?

    seems that aside from mashbills and charcoal, there are other factors suggested above...temperature, etc....
    Here are a few observations I've made during distillation at Jack Daniels and George Dickel. It's been a while but here goes...First is difference in mash bill and yeast. Second, Jack Daniels distills through a column stills and then to filtration through charcoal. I don't know if barrel toast is different, I don't remember.

    George Dickel is very small volume compared to JD. They distill through only one column still then through a pot still. When they filter, they use bleached wool blankets and charcoal. The whisky (their spelling) is aged between 3 and 12 years depending on the label, #8,#12, Cascade Hollow.

    Dickels fermentation tanks are in the same proximity as the stills and in the summer it's HOT in there. JD has the tanks and stills in separate areas and the area with the fermentation tanks didn't seem to be uncomfortably warm. Dickel also uses a type of chill filtration, while I don't remember JD mentioning chill filtration.

    I think there are enough differences in the way the whisk(e)y is made and aged to give them very distinct and different taste profiles. If you are ever in the neighborhood to visit JD then by all means visit George Dickel, they are just down the road a few miles. Prichards distillery is also close by so might as well take that one in too!

    Here's to bananas and vitamens for health and vigor!
    Often I am forced to deal with the fact that I prefer bourbon over dealing with facts.

  5. #25
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    I wonder if the Dickel yeast is the source of the "vitamin" taste...considering:

    http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/b...ast-000288.htm

    Brewers yeast is a rich source of B vitamins and is bitter in taste. It is used to make beer. The yeast strain used by Dickel may have a similar profile...and maybe the hot temps you noted increase the effect.

    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-brewers-yeast.htm

    "A number of Saccharomyces species are used to brew beer, depending on whether it is a top or bottom fermenting beer"

    If used to brew beer...possibly used to start whiskey fermentation too.

  6. #26
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    I think it may be the yeast because I recall once some Old Charter (when made by UDV) having a similar flavour. It is not at all unpleasant, kind of a mineral note, but not something I would drink regularly. Also, I've found some bottles have it to a greater or lesser extent and I'll buy a couple of bottles at least every year, the No. 8 or 12, to check out how it's tasting.

    Gary

  7. #27
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    Re: bananas and vitamins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramiel McHinson View Post
    ...George Dickel is very small volume compared to JD. They distill through only one column still then through a pot still. When they filter, they use bleached wool blankets and charcoal...!
    does the WOOL have anything to do with the flavor? i've never heard of that. interesting.
    HUP!

  8. #28
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    I wonder if "lanolin" enters into the distillate as a fatty ester.....quite an unusual application of wool....unless they use washed / scoured wool free of lanolin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanolin

  9. #29
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    Re: bananas and vitamins?

    [quote=Dramiel McHinson;151533]Second, Jack Daniels distills through a column stills and then to filtration through charcoal.

    quote]

    They run it thru a doubler as well.

    Leif
    Swedish lover of American whiskey

  10. #30
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    Re: Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

    I don't think the wool has anything to do with it, it would be well-bleached to ensure no taste gets in the whiskey. Also, a 1980's Old Charter 90 proof I had at a gazebo had the same mineral-like note. In my view it must have been a UDV yeast, or some other process peculiar to UDV distillation that explains it. Perhaps I should say, peculiar to UDV distillation in the last 20 years or so since a George Dickel I have from the 70's seems not to disclose that note (it is otherwise quite similar to current Dickel).

    Leaching through wool blankets is an old rectification technique and is mentioned in old distilling texts. Chuck Cowdery has pointed out that rough pot still distillations were vaporised into and soaked out of old wool blankets as a field expedient by some 'shiners. So the practice is probably originally an artisan/empirical one and later was adopted by some commercial distillers. It is intended to filter out some fusel oils.

    Gary
    Last edited by Gillman; 12-14-2008 at 12:44.

 

 

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