Diageo evil?

[bourbonv]

Timothy,
In Diageo's defense, most of those distilleries listed were closed by Schenley in the 1960's and early 70's. When they became part of U.D. they really only had Dickel, Bernheim and Old Quaker. Of course U.D. made it a point to sell off Old Quaker and after purchasing Glenmore, they sold Yeloowstone and Medley distilleries and the bottling operation at the Glenmore distillery in Owensboro (the distillery had already been dismantled.) The closed Stitzel-Weller and has been looking for a buyer, but maybe not after purchasing Crown Royal.

The corporate philosphy at Diageo is short term profits to make the investors happy and no real plan to invest in the future of the brands or distilleries.


Mike Veach

[barturtle]

True, and many of the closed/destroyed Scotch distilleries were actually done by DLC, but I think it is very indicative that a company with a reputation of closing distilleries also buys companies with a background of doing the same.

If one was to buy a company with a history of closing distilleries and reopen its holdings, then you would be heralded as a savior, if you simply keep to the course of the previous management, then the reputation you inherit is justified.

[pepcycle]

What would have happened to the brown liquor industry had there been little or no consolidation???

In a Darwinian fashion, only the strong would survive.

Its a shame a few unicorns became extinct.

I'd rather blame Cold Duck, Gallo wine, cheap marijuana, tequila, Budweiser, designer vodka and TV for the demise of those distilleries.

Your Grandfather's whiskey represented the establishment.

The 60's and 70's were all about rebellion against that image.

[OscarV]

I'd rather blame Cold Duck, Gallo wine, cheap marijuana, tequila, Budweiser, designer vodka and TV for the demise of those distilleries.

Your Grandfather's whiskey represented the establishment.

The 60's and 70's were all about rebellion against that image.

Ah yes, whiskey on the rocks, drank while wearing a tuxcedo, that's what we used to call the Death Culture.

(btw, TV still sucks!)

[bourbonv]

Timothy,
I agree with you that United Distillers squandered many great oportunities. I W Harper was the best selling whiskey (not just bourbon) imported into Japan in 1996. Now it is hardly 25% of that amount. They missed a chance to take a brand like Weller or Old Fitzgerald and turn it into a great international brand and instead took Rebel Yell. They then dropped sales support for Rebel Yell and got stuck with a sea of wheated bourbon, that was good for Julian Van Winkle, but horrible for the company. Diageo is not evil just short sighted to the point of being stupid.

Mike Veach

[Josh]

Timothy,
I agree with you that United Distillers squandered many great oportunities. I W Harper was the best selling whiskey (not just bourbon) imported into Japan in 1996. Now it is hardly 25% of that amount. They missed a chance to take a brand like Weller or Old Fitzgerald and turn it into a great international brand and instead took Rebel Yell. They then dropped sales support for Rebel Yell and got stuck with a sea of wheated bourbon, that was good for Julian Van Winkle, but horrible for the company. Diageo is not evil just short sighted to the point of being stupid.

Mike Veach

Great discussion! The consesus seems to be that they are indeed evil for being stupid, being born out of an illegal deal, closing oodles of Scotch distilleries, the beloved S-W and assorted nefarious deeds.

The point about consolidation is a good one. It has happened over the years in just about every industry under the sun. Every time I head down to Indiana I pass the Auburn-Cord-Dusenberg Museum in Auburn, IN that stands as a testimony to that fact. But for most people that doesn't seem to justify the foolish & destructive actions of the company. Anyway, getting off the soapbox.

[bourbonv]

If you count Diageo as evil, then you have to say the same thing about Beam. Look at what they have done with Old Crow, Old Taylor and to a lesser extent, Old Grand Dad. It can be argued that E H Taylor, Jr was the most important person in the bourbon industry in the late 19th century. The same could be said for Crow in the earlier part of the century. Beam took over these brands and sold the Old Taylor Distillery, closed Old Crow and neglected the Old Grand Dad. I won't even go into they rye side of the business that Beam purchased from National.

The point is that short term corporate profits for the last couple of decades have been more important than long range growth. This is a deadly combination in an industry that has long range production cycles. Bourbon is not made in a day and short term thinking is bad.

Mike Veach

[OscarV]

The point is that short term corporate profits for the last couple of decades have been more important than long range growth. This is a deadly combination in an industry that has long range production cycles. Bourbon is not made in a day and short term thinking is bad.

Mike Veach

Agreed 100%.

Do you think it would be possible for Beam to revive the old Old Crow recipe/mashbill?
I think it is to late, Old crow is dead and to reintroduce it with that name I think it would be DOA.

[bourbonv]

Four Roses was re-introduced after years of being a blended whiskey on par with Old Crow. It could be done, but Beam will not do it. I wish they would sell these labels to someone who would right by them.

Mike Veach

[OscarV]

Four Roses was re-introduced after years of being a blended whiskey on par with Old Crow. It could be done, but Beam will not do it. I wish they would sell these labels to someone who would right by them.

Mike Veach

Yeah, you are right.
You say the name Four Roses up in these parts and they laff in your face.
"...that rotgut swill." is the typical responce.
You would think that if FR's could do it then OC could do it.
But that name, maybe it would work maybe it wouldn't.
The "Old" is a handicap, but the "Crow" is a winner.