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  1. #21
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
    HH can bottle any label that is current with the TTB. It is only that they choose not to.

    As far as other more profitable labels....which might those be? None of the HH stable are very pricey. Last time I found some VROHH Bib...it was $12/750ml.

    Some VROHH 8yr 86 has been spotted in Oregon...some time back.
    Mozilla...good point. What's the TTB?

    While HH certainly has a stable of decently priced good whiskey (I sure think its good whew!) Most of those labels are older less flashy ones: Bonded labels or antiqueish ones (Old Fitz, Henry McKenna, JW Dant and the like).

    With the current market trends toward small batch, single barrel or premium seeming products it would seem to me to be a smart business decision to pull labels like this one. Meaning not so much that they make higher priced labels that older whiskey should go towards but instead market trends condition where the whiskey is going to end up...in the more premiumish, small batch, single barrel type products (although the only single Barrels they make that I know of are McKenna and Elijah 18 and Evan Williams)

    But then again maybe I'm talking outta my butt and there are many others here (like yourself) with much more knowledge than I have on stuff like this...I just wish this stuff was still available because it would be an incredible bargain.
    Last edited by G-Rat; 03-28-2009 at 20:36.

  2. #22
    Bourbonian of the Year 2010 and Guru
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Rat View Post
    Mozilla...good point. What's the TTB?
    Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  3. #23
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle View Post
    Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.
    Ahh yes...thanks

  4. #24
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Rat View Post

    But then again maybe I'm talking outta my butt and there are many others here (like yourself) with much more knowledge than I have on stuff like this...I just wish this stuff was still available because it would be an incredible bargain.
    I don't think any of us, or the distillers for that matter, like to see any brand having to be taken off the shelf. Unfortunately, current market trends, as well as a sales forecast made years ago, has put them is situations where there just isn't enough juice aged and ready to drink to support every label they currently make (or recently made, as the case may be)...it think the saddest part is that the lost shelf space vacated by the brands will never be regained.
    2010 Bourbonian of the Year

    As long as you have good whiskey you're not "unemployed", you're "Funemployed!!!"

    I'm no Pappyophile

  5. #25
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by barturtle View Post
    I think the saddest part is that the lost shelf space vacated by the brands will never be regained.
    So true...so true.

  6. #26
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Rat View Post
    Mozilla...good point. What's the TTB?

    While HH certainly has a stable of decently priced good whiskey (I sure think its good whew!) Most of those labels are older less flashy ones: Bonded labels or antiqueish ones (Old Fitz, Henry McKenna, JW Dant and the like).

    With the current market trends toward small batch, single barrel or premium seeming products it would seem to me to be a smart business decision to pull labels like this one. Meaning not so much that they make higher priced labels that older whiskey should go towards but instead market trends condition where the whiskey is going to end up...in the more premiumish, small batch, single barrel type products (although the only single Barrels they make that I know of are McKenna and Elijah 18 and Evan Williams)

    But then again maybe I'm talking outta my butt and there are many others here (like yourself) with much more knowledge than I have on stuff like this...I just wish this stuff was still available because it would be an incredible bargain.
    I don't really buy into the "Small Batch" or "Single Barrel" group of enthusiasts. These are just ways that the distillers try to pry more money out of your pocket. IMO, the best bourbons are batched. Batching gives one a complete taste of the pie...instead of just one slice that could contain alot....or not many flavors that you would expect.

    Small batch...actually has no meaning or regulation to keep it honest. FYI: When Barton batches bourbon...it is in less than 80 barrels. When WT batches their regular Bird...it is in 5000 barrel batches. Beams SB is around 250 barrels, IIRC.

    Single barrel gives the distiller a chance to put whatever he wants in a bottle. If it's bad or off....oh well, tough break for the purchaser.

    Why does it matter if a label is old or new? Flashy or not? All I really care about is the flavor to price ratio. If they(HH) put VROHH in a label that was turd brown...I wouldn't care. Just keep the price affordible and I am all over it.

    Don't fall into the trap of paying more money for the same juice. All distillers make a consistent product...to the best of their ability. Most only make one type of juice. So, why pay alot more for juice that has a fancy bottle or label. Take BT for example: Why pay for Blanton's SB when you can get an older less expensive bottle of AAA 10yr? Because it's a single barrel? They both come from the same juice. So, why is Blantons above $40 and the AAA around $15? Don't be a sucker! OR...a follower of marketing propaganda.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Jeff, I don't have access to Heaven Hill's sales figures so can't say as to which brands are more profitable. Considering the demand for aged product from the new producers it is plausible that Heaven Hill makes more money in bulk sales than if they bottled it themselves.

  8. #28
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    While that may be true...

    I seriously doubt that any two years are ever the same across the board for sales or accounts receivable. They do a ton of bulk and bottling for their accounts. (Aside) HH really does a great job with their warehousing and bottling. It will blow your mind to see the bottling house. It is a marvel.

    HH has a million labels. They will bottle a label when an order comes in for it. Most of these labels are only sold in select markets and are very hit and miss to begin with.

    Without seeing their production numbers for each label and knowing their attitude towards their huge collection of labels...it is really hard to comment accurately on how they forsee the future of their brands.

    I can't think of too many reasons...a distiller would completely pull one of their own labels. Cost for keeping it alive in the market being the biggest cost factor, against it.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    The whole place is impressive but I haven't toured it since before the visitor center was built.

  10. #30
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    Re: Very Rare Old Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond 10yr

    Quote Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
    I can't think of too many reasons...a distiller would completely pull one of their own labels. Cost for keeping it alive in the market being the biggest cost factor, against it.
    Mozilla -

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Cost of keeping it alive in a market trended (foolishly...as you and I both agree) towards flashiness and marketing gimmicks. Imagine being joe consumer and walking into your neighborhood grocery store to get some cans of soup. You get there and look at the selection and see some with labels that look like they are from the 1970s and then you look a little higher on the shelf and see some with more current looking labels. Trick is the same stuff is essentially in both. Which does Joe consumer buy...he buys the newer looking ones because he feels...key word here is feel...like it is a safer bet because it looks more kept up and cooler.

    Same thing going on with bourbon...you can either get yourself some Elijah Craig that has some modern packaging or you can get the VROHH 10yr that looks like its been sitting there for 20 years because the label looks old school. Now you and I know what the better deal is. 12 for the 750 of 10yr juice or 20 for the same juice mixed with some older stuff (or however HH makes The Craig). Eventually it costs too much to keep the VROHH on the bottling line because they can't push as much of it in comparison with the flashier looking stuff.

    I don't fall for the gimmick. I want the old school label that isn't as hip and doesn't say 'small batch' or 'single barrel' on it...because at the end of the day I want a good affordable pour of bourbon and that's it.

 

 

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