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  1. #61
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    I don't buy this "it's just marketing" argument for any of the products to which it is usually applied. There is an adage in marketing that great marketing will get people to buy a bad product, but only once. Products simply do not succeed 'on marketing alone,' as frequently is claimed by posters on this site.
    For something truly bad, agreed. For something passable (letter grade C), the product can succeed thanks to marketing efforts alone. It only has to be better than something else in its category.

    The difference can be miniscule. The only thing that distinguishes a bad vodka from a good one is that the latter lacks a noxious rubbing alcohol smell. Thanks to a brilliant marketing campaign, Absolut has millions of people convinced that it's the best thing since mother's milk.

    And once people have settled on it, their loyalty to it can be fierce. You'll never get them to try something else, so they'll never know that there is A grade stuff out there. The loyal MM drinker will never try VW Lot B, and will live out his life in blissful ignorance.

    I've seen too many examples of willfull ignorance to discount it the way you appear to. I recollect, back in the 1980s, being part of a hunting party one member of which, at the evening campfire, pulled out a bottle of "bourbon" that was actually Yukon Jack, a liqueur based on Canadian whisky. Efforts by others in the party to convince him that his bottle was not bourbon only succeeded in bringing him to the edge of completely losing it. We left him alone after that (he didn't get invited along the next year, though).

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    (What is the appropriate price for swill, anyway?)
    Absolut goes for $23.95 here in OR. Yukon Jack for $19.95.
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  2. #62
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    I personally have nothing against MM. I drink it from time to time, especially in many bars where it is the best of (usually) limited choices. They have proven that they consistently make good whiskey.

    But I, like many others, would like to see them also make some great whiskey.
    John B

    "Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at all seasons… that is all there is to distinguish us from other animals."

  3. #63

    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by CorvallisCracker View Post
    ...And once people have settled on it, their loyalty to it can be fierce. You'll never get them to try something else, so they'll never know that there is A grade stuff out there. The loyal MM drinker will never try VW Lot B, and will live out his life in blissful ignorance...
    And it took me a lot of years of being a willful arrogant to become okay with 'blissful ignorance'!
    The point of drinking intoxicating spirits (of which, perchance to notice, bourbon IS one!) is not to be wise so much as to be blissful!
    I'm pretty sure standard Old Crow will never commence blissfulness. However, I could enjoy Maker's Mark -- especially at someone else's expense -- enough not to be so arrogant and willful!
    Thus, while I agree with your description of many bourbon drinkers, I think I, too, agree with Chuck that marketing alone won't transcend the execrable (I think another way of saying it is: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's whiskey" -- or something like that).
    Last edited by TNbourbon; 03-02-2010 at 20:10.

  4. #64
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowdery View Post
    I don't buy this "it's just marketing" argument for any of the products to which it is usually applied. There is an adage in marketing that great marketing will get people to buy a bad product, but only once. Products simply do not succeed 'on marketing alone,' as frequently is claimed by posters on this site.
    I have a counterexample: Heineken. It's a middle-of-the-road pilsner. They may have improved their quality control in recent years (OK, decades), but in the past I have sampled many bottles of it, and every one was skunked, probably due to the green glass and poor handling.

    I bet we've all had a skunky Heineken. It's such a common flaw that many people assume that it's the was the beer is supposed to taste. I once heard my uncle say, "who opened a Heineken" when we drove past skunk roadkill.

    The vast majority of people buy Heineken because they've been told it's the best. When they get a little extra money or what to celebrate, that's what they get. When it tastes funny they assume that it's because they don't have a well-enough developed palate.

  5. #65
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Anyone who buys a consumable like food or beverage because it is the "best" is a marketers dream and they deserve to get fleeced.

    I buy what I enjoy consuming and I don't give a damn what others think.
    My name is Joel Goodson. I deal in human fulfillment.
    I grossed over eight thousand dollars in one night. Time of your life, huh kid?

  6. #66
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by nblair View Post
    Really? I cut OWA to 90 proof and did a side by side with Maker's. I didn't take any notes, but thought I preferred OWA across the board. I figured WSR would hold up to it too, even though cutting OWA isn't exactly the same as WSR...
    OWA cut to 90 proof is WSR.
    Last edited by p_elliott; 03-03-2010 at 09:37.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider, is chaos for the fly.

  7. #67
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by TNbourbon View Post
    I, too, agree with Chuck that marketing alone won't transcend the execrable (I think another way of saying it is: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's whiskey" -- or something like that).
    Tim, I'm not talking about the execrable.

    Quote Originally Posted by CorvallisCracker View Post
    For something truly bad, agreed. For something passable (letter grade C), the product can succeed thanks to marketing efforts alone.
    I'm talking about the mediocre.
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  8. #68
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by craigthom View Post
    I have a counterexample: Heineken. It's a middle-of-the-road pilsner. They may have improved their quality control in recent years (OK, decades), but in the past I have sampled many bottles of it, and every one was skunked, probably due to the green glass and poor handling.

    I bet we've all had a skunky Heineken. It's such a common flaw that many people assume that it's the was the beer is supposed to taste. I once heard my uncle say, "who opened a Heineken" when we drove past skunk roadkill.

    The vast majority of people buy Heineken because they've been told it's the best. When they get a little extra money or what to celebrate, that's what they get. When it tastes funny they assume that it's because they don't have a well-enough developed palate.
    An excellent example.
    Scott

    "Remember that your sense of humor is inversely proportional to your level of intolerance."
    - Serge Storms

  9. #69
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by p_elliott View Post
    OWA cut to 90 proof is WSR.
    Good catch, Paul.

    Yes, so the only difference would be the water that you use to cut the OWA versus the water that BT uses.
    My name is Joel Goodson. I deal in human fulfillment.
    I grossed over eight thousand dollars in one night. Time of your life, huh kid?

  10. #70
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    Re: Before Makers' Mark, it was not OK for bourbon to taste good!

    Quote Originally Posted by p_elliott View Post
    OWA cut to 90 proof is WSR.
    I know that they are the same thing, just that one is cut to 90 proof prior to bottling. However, I thought that there were other variables that don't make it EXACTLY the same if you buy a higher proof bottling and cut it yourself.

 

 

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